The Baseball Book Club discussion

This time round it is the Golden Era (1947-1972) that will be under consideration by the HOF Veterans Committee. Who do you think they should choose. For those who need to be refreshed on what the rules for selection are here is a link:
http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/r...

Is there a list that they`re using? As most know from here, I`m a huge advocate of Gil Hodges, but if there`s a list, it`s easier to remember who might also be deserving
Mike Linn

OLIVA!

On the 2012 ballot, with Ron Santo getting in, the closest to him NOT getting in , were Hodges, Kaat, Minoso, and Oliva
Mike Linn
To see it, Google the Golden Era candidates

Lance wrote: "OLIVA!"
You have to be faster than that
Mike Linn

My honest belief is that none belong.Even Kaat says he isn't a HOFer. They all had very nice careers, and a few are close but they wouldn't get into my HOF as much as I liked them all.

Sometimes I also want to pine for Kaat. But then IMO, he could be a worthy candidate for the broadcast wing too.

Okay i'll join in that

I'm with you Harold, they were all really good but not quite there.

Any of them win a championship as a manager on top, like Torre ? Was Torre a better player? Oops there I go again
Mike Linn

Torre went in strictly as a manager

You are aware I knew that, right?
Mike Linn

Lol of course Mike, but there's a certain craze that comes over old Dodger fans when Hodges is mentioned. I've seen some very heated debates on Facebook where people are insulting each other and getting just uncivilized.

Not me, I just think he matches up with similar in the Hall ad a player( Rice, Perez, maybe Dawson), and the managing was a bonus. Then , with him dying at 47, I just would have like to see the legacy play out so there would be a fuller body of work. The damn good career and an incomplete managerial career, might have pushed it further. Basically, with long careers, Torre got in with one great team after looking like a clueless Joe. Cox`s consistency with only one crown, to me , La Russa is the true HOFer.
Mike Linn

Michael wrote: "Not me, I just think he matches up with similar in the Hall ad a player( Rice, Perez, maybe Dawson), and the managing was a bonus. Then , with him dying at 47, I just would have like to see the leg..."

You said craze, not crazy?

There is some sort of screening committee which will compile a list of 10 candidates that the Veteran's committee will choose from. To be honest I am not sure if there are any really deserving players left from this period, so maybe we should be looking at the other categories (umpires, managers and executves). I suppose the nationalist in me might try to make a case for Charles Bronfman, but I am not really sure he has the credentials.

Yeh I meant to say to craze, but should have worded it differently. If Gil had lived most likely he would have been fired in a couple of years. The Mets management had already traded all their good young talent for nothing. I'm assuming that he had no input in those deals. I give him props for 69 but he had a better team in 70 and 71 and came in just over .500 both years.

What about being hired by some other team at the age of 50
Mike Linn

Stoneham still owned the Giants in the mid 70s so I think they might've given him a shot. Then again he could've ended up with Steinbrenner, although I really can't see him working for any of the nuts like George, Finley, or Ray Kroc.

Gene Autry is in so many Hall Of Fame's (and has five stars on Hollywood's Walk of Fame) maybe he should go into the Baseball HOF (just kidding, I think).

Or his horse CHAMPION

PS Today is my 70th Birthday so if you haven't bought a Pitch For Justice, today would be a great present for me. http://www.amazon.com/Pitch-Justice-H...

Happy Birthday Harold!

And I thought I was old at 59 (perspective employers sure seem to think so).

Thanks Mike. I never felt old until I hit 70. Not that I feel physically old; just that it kills me mentally. How many more baseball seasons do I have left/

30 or so

From your mouth to god's ears but I'll be happy with 15

Somewhere in between would be fine, but closer to the higher number is better.59 is just a kid John. And the happiest of birthdays Harold
Mike Linn

Thanks Mike Linn-only wish it were

Word of mouth works. Already have your book Harold...So your birthday present is that I talked about it to a coworker today and he bought it before lunch was over. So...Happy Birthday Harold.

We have many more annual trips to Citizens Bank Park to do so of course you have many more seasons left.

Don`t forget me, Wappinger-boy
Mike Linn

Oh we already know you MANY seasons left. Of course you will be on those trips.

For sure...
Mike Linn

Thanks Lance. I did get a sale today so our friend was honest. I hope we can go on a couple of trips next year. Thanks for the good wishes. Going to bed now-up at 4;30 to fly to fl to pack everything and move it with my car back to NJ

What about Al Oliver?

Well Andre Dawson agrees with you on that one. He feels Oliver would have reached 3,000 hits if not for collusion.

What about him? Are you asking if he`s a HOFer ? IMO, he`s not. He`s lumped in with the Vada Pinson`s, Steve Garvey`s, Dave Parker`s, and Bill Buckner`s as a hitter. He was an average fielder, and only one year did he finish in the top 5 of the MVP vote.
Mike Linn

John wrote: "Well Andre Dawson agrees with you on that one. He feels Oliver would have reached 3,000 hits if not for collusion."

In 1985,Al Oliver after his season at the age of 38, he was still almost 260 hits short of 3,000. After the age of 38, Andre Dawson himself only got 144 more hits. He`s a majority of one to think it could happen
Mike Linn

Garvey and Buckner hit .300 7 times, Parker 6 times, and Pinson only 4 times. Al Oliver hit .300 11 times.

Garvey in my mind deserves a shot at it more than Oliver but that last stat is very impressive

Bill Mazeroski NEVER hit .300,Luis Aparicio did it once, Robin Yount only did it 6 times, but he had 3000 hits and 2 Mvp`s. The list is endless of multiple year .300 hitters who aren`t in the HOF . That`s the criteria? Garvey and Buckner were better hitters with more run production, and Parker might have been the best of that lot. And Parker and Garvey were gold glovers, and Parker had a cannon from right field. Oliver was consistent for a goodly number of seasons, but is NOT a HOFer
Mike Linn

Chris wrote: "Garvey and Buckner hit .300 7 times, Parker 6 times, and Pinson only 4 times. Al Oliver hit .300 11 times."

And your own example, Andre Dawson only did it 5 times, but with MUCH more power, an MVP, and around the same amount of hits as Oliver. Compare them side by side, it`s NO contest
Mike Linn

I have to agree with Mike. I always ask if I am choosing sides for a team and my next selection is this guy or that guy who do I take...in this case I take Dawson as I felt he had a better all around game than Oliver

Dawson had a cannon. One of the top ten arms of all time IMO and he dominated his position for well over 10 years and had an MVP

I saw him against the Mets twice in the 1970`s, and he threw out 3 runners, 2 at home. They haven`t learned yet. While Oliver was a good player, like I originally said, he falls in that Garvey, Buckner, range of players; very good, not great
Mike Linn

I agree with you

Dawson's point was that the only reason Oliver retired was due to collusion that year. If he had continued playing then he would in all likelihood ended up with the 3000 hits. I don't much much stock in MVP voting as too many of the voters usually figure if you aren't on a championship or at least a contending team you aren't eligible for it. I recall the year Dawson and Bell received their MVP's. Quite a bit of ruckus there. Since he unwillingly retired after the 1985 season it is now up to the Veteran's Committee.

Oliver retired after the 1985 season . He was one month shy of his 39th birthday, and was coming off his biggest decline year. Collusion began that off season and lasted 3 years. I highly doubt he would have garnered better than 260 hits approaching 40.
Mike Linn

It wasn't collusion from the owners that cost Oliver. It was conclusion, as in they came to the conclusion that he couldn't play anymore.