Jesus Freaks for Writers discussion

Post all of your editing tips you've learned over the years here! They'll prove helpful for all of us!

Something that helped me greatly is learning the use of who and that. It's simple: humans are who and everything else is that. So if you're saying "she was the girl that..." wrong. It's "she was the girl who." Simple, but extremely tricky when everybody messes it up!

Don't edit until you finish the book! Otherwise you get so caught up in editing that you forget to finish your book!

Because printing out a book for editing purposes can get expensive, I use my kindle instead. It allows me to think of my story as a book, and I can still "mark it up" with the notes feature.

Also, a grammar mistake that I see MANY writers make is then/than miss-usage. ThEn is for whEn. I will do this thEn that. ThAn is for compArison. I can do this better thAn you.

@haley very good point! I do the opposite all the time. Haha and sometimes it's more fun editing (I use the Microsoft track changes and I love seeing red) so it's always a good reminder!

Easy tip for anyone who uses Microsoft Word: When editing your manuscript click on the pilcrow symbol (paragraph symbol that looks like a backwards "P") to see all the hidden formatting in your story. The useful thing about this is you can find all the spots where you might have more spacing than needed or returns for paragraphs that are unnecessary. It's a handy overlooked feature especially if you're formatting your manuscript to an ebook.

Good tip, Daniel! One I've often briefly wished I knew, but not wished long enough to look it up. ;-) I always just jump to the next project... and I'm afraid I trespass on my gracious editor's duties by doing so!
:-)

Anyone have a good editing program. I know word was mentioned but I am currently unsure whether to buy it... is it worth the price? I have heard many say no.

The thing that gets me with editing the most is this little guy right here... ' such a tricky critter!

It's = It is
His ankle = possessive (no ' right?!)
Richard's ankle = possessive (now there is one!)

Desks = Plural (no ')
The Desk's drawer = possessive (Now there it is again!)


So anyone got an easy tip to remember all this? After editing 10 chapters my mind begins to fuzz...

Apostrophes sure can be tricky!! If you find any tips for them, be sure to share it here! I'm afraid I won't be much help... ;)

Jason, Scrivener is an amazing program for writing and editing and its a fraction of the cost of Word at $45. Many writers swear by it, myself included. There's also Open Office, which is free and is almost identical to Word in the features.

I second Daniel's recommendation, Scriv is a great program. I like to use it in conjunction with Word, but you could use it alone. It'd certainly be better than Open Office!
If anyone is interested, Scriv gives half-off codes to NaNo winners, and they've been doing that for several years; so a lot of winners already have Scrivener from past years, so they're happy to pass their codes along to newcomers. This is perfectly allowed, and benefits Scrivener makers because it allows writers who would not have purchased it otherwise to give them half the regular price, and makes new converts so it's a win-win.

I've facilitated other Scriv code re-homings, (already gave mine away from this NaNo!) so if anyone is interested, I'd be happy to contact a few winners and find an unused code that needs a loving home. ;-)
Just let me know! :-)

Elizabeth

I've been interested in Scrivener. How much does it cost? It sounds like an awesome program for not only writing, but school also.

Hey Brianna!
Yes, it ends up costing about 20 bucks, so that's pretty economical for writing software. It's not got as strong a thesaurus as Word, (a feature I do use a lot there!!! ;-) ) But it's certainly worlds better than OpenOffice, and the structural flexibility is way different than anything traditional doc programs can offer. So it's pretty neat... I am very glad that I got it with my Scriv code last year!!! :-)
If you're interested, I can see about scrounging a languishing code for you! :-)
Elizabeth

I would definitely be interested in giving Scrivener a try. It's bound to be better than the free version of Word and right now that's all I got. I'd use a code if you found another.

Hey, so speaking of editing... would any of you know of a good (relatively cheap) editor?

I'm looking for someone to do just basic editing (correcting grammar etc.) and like writing down suggestions such as: "reword this because I felt it broke the flow of the story" or "This was hard to understand; explain better" or "this character felt a little flat..."

SO not wild critiquing. It's my story. A story from my heart. I want it to stay that way. But I would appreciate someone pointing out little things I missed, to help me polish for publishing!!

If anyone can help, I would be so grateful!! :)

Shantelle Mary wrote: "Hey, so speaking of editing... would any of you know of a good (relatively cheap) editor?

I'm looking for someone to do just basic editing (correcting grammar etc.) and like writing down suggestio..."

I am not a "professional" editor but I do have 8 years worth of College level grammar studies for creative writing, novel writing, and writing for publication. I received a diploma for each of the two four year courses.

Assuming you don't find anything and you were willing to let me take a crack at it I'd be up for it. Editing and proof reading is something I have wanted to try to get into doing but just never known where a good place to start was.

Thanks, Jason! I will definitely keep you in mind! I have one last edit to do before I would send it in to anyone, and a few other things; but if I haven't found any other suitable options by then, I will get in contact with you.

With that, do you know what you would charge? (It is quite a long book).

Thanks again for your interest, :)

Hi Shantelle, I would definitely recommend my editor who did an excellent job on my novel. Her name is Holly Bohl and the link will take you to her website. Her pricing is very good compared to most editors and she does a professional job.

Thanks, Daniel! I will keep her in mind as well. I looked at her website, and she sounds like a good option. However... I'm wondering about exact prices. My book is like 189,000 words.

Thanks again! :)

According to her website, she would charge a $250 flat fee for anything over 100k words. You can always contact her if you're in doubt about that price, she's very approachable. :)

Ok, thanks!! :)

If you don't go with anyone else and let me have a go of it I can discuss any reasonable option for pricing. I'm not looking to make a bunch of money, just get into doing it and see if I could build a client base.

Just off the top of my head I would throw out $175 for the length of your book.

Ok, thanks! That sounds very reasonable. I will let you know if I have need of your services, :)

my editor, Jeanne Leach, charges around $200 for a final run-through edit. She does more critiquing, but let's you keep the story. She helped me make mine better while keeping it mine. J I'm sure she would look through for grammatical errors though. She's spectacular.

Jessica Barnes is very experienced and a former editor with Random House having edited several genres: http://storydriveneditorial.com/edito...
I've used her before and she was spot-on with her work. I'm currently trying to schedule her for the final rounds of editing for my book, The Bow of Destiny.

Thanks all, for your help and suggestions! I am truly grateful!! :)

E. wrote: "Hey Brianna!
Yes, it ends up costing about 20 bucks, so that's pretty economical for writing software. It's not got as strong a thesaurus as Word, (a feature I do use a lot there!!! ;-) ) But it'..."

Great! Thank you! I thought it was a lot more money, so maybe I will get myself a Christmas present. :)

Kendra wrote: "Because printing out a book for editing purposes can get expensive, I use my kindle instead. It allows me to think of my story as a book, and I can still "mark it up" with the notes feature.

Also..."

Whoa! I didn't think you could "edit/markup" in a kindle eBook! What a great idea Kendra!

Lavay wrote: "Kendra wrote: "Because printing out a book for editing purposes can get expensive, I use my kindle instead. It allows me to think of my story as a book, and I can still "mark it up" with the notes ..."

You can't edit the file, but you can leave notes, like taking a red pen to the story after you've printed it out. I've done this with four out of six of my books, and I'm working through it for my seventh, and I love it.

Kendra wrote: "Lavay wrote: "Kendra wrote: "Because printing out a book for editing purposes can get expensive, I use my kindle instead. It allows me to think of my story as a book, and I can still "mark it up" w..."

Oh. That's what I meant. (lol) Great idea, though.

So I have another question...and wasn't sure where to put it. As I'm reading through my fantasy novel, Silver Rose, and getting it ready to hopefully send to beta readers with a month or two, I would love if you could tell me HOW LONG it would take you to BETA READ an about 191,000 word book??

I would just like to know how long people are going to need, so I can plan likewise.

Thanks!! :)

It would probably take me about a month, personally, but I've never beta-read, so don't go on what I say

Personally, I'd be a bit intimidated by such a hefty chunk of words and it'd take me FOREVER to get it done. I mean, I get intimidated by 136,000 word novel I finished last year and in the process of perfecting for publication later this summer, so what I've done is split it up and send it out one part at a time (it was pre-split, though, so that was the easy part), which means that my beta readers can go at their own speed, and I can still be editing the later sections while my betas are already working on the first few. (It's made for a much more streamlined process, that's for certain.)

I'm not sure this quite answers your question, but this is an editing tip, so I think it counts ...

I think I would probably prefer something that long to be split up, too, though how long it takes for me depends on the story. If it grabs me and I love it, I'll stay up past midnight several nights in a row and get it done within a week. If it doesn't grab me, it could take a month or more. This is really true for both beta and non beta reading for me. It doesn't make that much of a difference whether or not I'm taking notes.

Kendra, my own speed would be to have finished it weeks ago. :) I want to know how WP,FP ends.

Yeah, 191k is a lot to read and turn around in a timely fashion. You might need to either offer an enticing incentive to a beta reader to get them to devote much of their time to do it (Amazon gift card, signed paperback, etc.) or maybe pay for a proofreader/beta reader. The latter will probably get it done quicker since they're being paid, but if you're strapped for cash it might not be the best option. Maybe try Fiverr.com for beta readers. It can get pricey for a novel of that length though.

Either way, congrats on getting your novel written! :)

Thanks for all the responses, guys! It took my editor/proofreader like 4 months to read, re-read, and polish up Silver Rose...but the story was really her kind of story. So that would definitely help.

Yes, it is an enormous amount...not sure how it got so long! O.O I'm trying to cut down the word count; but really what I want is a good story, not a "perfect-length" story. We'll see. I'm reading it over to try to see if it drags anywhere and what I can take out without disturbing the story! :)

I've thought about gift cards and whatnot, but I'm not sure I have the money at this point. Hmm. Thanks for the feedback, all! I will keep thinking on it, and try to figure out what to do! :)

The breaking it up into parts seems to work as good natural incentive. The faster your readers finish reading, the faster they get to read what happens next ...

Provided you've finished editing on your end, of course.

Morgan wrote: "Kendra, my own speed would be to have finished it weeks ago. :) I want to know how WP,FP ends. "

I'm working on getting part 4 ready to send to you ... Oh, but the tension's growing. Emotions run high in part 4, that's all I'm saying.

*scampers off before I can get in trouble for going off topic*

Just wanted to share a book that has been very helpful to me in the editing process--and even storytelling philosophy.

It's called The Story Grid: What Good Editors Know by Shawn Coyne. Coyne used to be an editor and has worked on multiple bestselling books. Now, he's not a Christian and there's a bit of foul language in the book, but his advice on writing is invaluable. He advocates that all writers should be their own editors, provided they learn the essentials of story and follow the fundamentals of editing.

It's a great read, especially if you aspire to be an editor!

Sounds good! Thanks for letting us know, Daniel!

Okay, this is formatting rather than editing, but anyway... I need some serious help!!

How do I do page numbers and headers? Number 1 is showing up on my Prologue page, but here's no pages after that! If I put 2 in the page after the Prologue, it makes a 2 on all the pages under it.

And with headers. How do I delete headers from chapter pages and blank pages??

I am so, so confused, guys. I've been researching and researching, but when I try whatever people say to do, it just doesn't work.

Do you have any youtube videos or whatnot that explain step-by-step and thoroughly how to do this? (I'm wondering if I did something wrong with the page breaks).

Help!! :p

What word processing program are you using?

I don't know what program you use, but my knowledge comes from Microsoft Word. Headers and footers are a bear.

First, you have to use section breaks, not page breaks. Make sure with the page numbers you used the "insert page number" feature and that it's linked to the previous section.

For the headers, you have to edit them to have a different first page. To do this, you have to make sure you put a next page section break between each chapter. You can find the features to edit the header to have a different first page in one of the tabs that pops up when you double click on your header. Then you just delete it from the pages you don't want it on. If you have something different on the odd and even pages, you'll need to make sure to tell it to have a different odd and even. And when you need a blank page, the easiest way is to make it a new section and make sure it's not linked to the section before or the section after.

Headers and footers are so difficult to work with. And sometimes they just refuse to work, even when you're doing what you're supposed to. When that happens (and it even happened to me on Creighton Hill) I generally restart the program and sometimes the entire computer. A lot of the time that seems to help.

Let me know if this doesn't work, or you need more tips!

Oh, and to make the page numbers start counting at the prologue and not before, make sure the prologue is a new section, go into "format page numbers" and tell it to start at 1, not continue from previous section. You may have to edit the sections after that to be sure they do continue from the previous section.

@Morgan, thanks for the tips! I was doing page breaks for every page, and then section breaks between like the Title Page, Table of Content pages and the main body of the book. Is that right? Or do I ONLY use section breaks?

@Lena, I'm using Microsoft Word 2013, I believe. And I actually downloading createspace.com's basic template.

@Morgan, I made sure the numbers started at the Prologue, but they just don't continue after that!! I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Hmm... I shall go try again, and then get back to you guys! :)

Thanks SO much for the responses!! :)

You'll have to use section breaks between chapters. I don't think there's a way to take the headers off the first page when it's page breaks. I almost never use page breaks, only when I need a blank page after something and "odd page section break" won't really go to the next odd page.

Hmm, not sure what's going on with the page numbers. I would probably remove them entirely, close it and open it again and then put them back in. Sometimes that works. And if it doesn't, it's probably some setting on the footers or page numbers. But try it, and if it doesn't work, then I'll look at the settings on Word and try to figure out where you might have gone wrong.

Headers and footers are evil. :P

Good news! I think I figured out the headers!! Fingers crossed! I finally just decided to upload my file to createspace.com and preview it. It's showing that all the headers are in their proper places.

However... numbering is still a big problem. I've tried closing it down--doing it all over again. Tried downloading the basic template again, and doing EVERYTHING over. It's just not working for me. Grr. :/

Yes... I now know personally that they are quite evil, XD

Also, I'm doing a page break between the title page and the second title page thing, and its showing in the preview that I have two blank pages between those two. Why is it adding an extra blank page?? Not showing that on my document.

*sigh* Off to do some more experimenting...

Oh, and how to I justify the text?

Justifying the text is the easy part. Highlight what you want to be justified, and in the home tab where it has the paragraph alignment click on the one that has the lines even on both sides. When you hover over it, it should say justify. Or you could modify the style to do it automatically. Right click on the style that you use for your paragraph text (probably normal unless you created a new one), click modify, and select justify there, and when you click okay everything in that style should be justified.

You may have accidentally inserted an extra page break. Turn on the formatting symbols, the little paragraph symbol in the paragraph section of the home tab, and it should have a dotted line that says page break where there are some. It strangely doesn't always show up if there's more than one blank page. Or there could also be a section break too and it's just printing funky. Look at it in the print preview before you print to PDF. It often looks quite different.

Now the page numbers. I'll message you my email address so you can send me some screenshots if you like.

Okay, so that was easy! :D What about when, like at the end of a chapter, one sentence is really, abnormally spaced out?

I think I got the page thing figured out too.

Will get to your message in just a moment. Thanks for all your help!!! :)