Tender Is the Night discussion

I have read two of Fitzgerald's books (The great Gatsby and Tender is the night) and two of Hemingway's (The Sun also rises and For whom the Bell tolls).
I choose Fitzgerald.
I enjoyed the two novels very much and found the story involving and flowing better than Hemingway's novels. Hemingway's novels on my part are very slow with a few themes in it. Fitzgerald's novels are rich in themes and fast moving which I like very much.

Meh, I'm not really the biggest fan of either of these authors. I don't really care for this time period too much.. It's obvious that both of them took influence from each other, but had very essential differences that made them very different. Some people may really like the style of the time and the themes of the time, but personally, I don't really care for the trends.

While Hemingway definitely used the "iceberg" principle in his works, Fitzgerald was a lot more verbose in nature. Fitzgerald emphasized a lot more on beautiful prose, opposed to Hemingway, who seemed to always keep things short and to the point. Both of these styles have faults: while not being specific enough makes the reader feel very detached from the story and characters, being very descriptive can do the same thing- having to dig through loads of prose that doesn't add a whole lot to the story can be daunting. A lot of judging these styles back to back has to do with simple preference; some people can go with both because it works for them, but not all people like either style. Personally, I prefer a story that can blend both the verbose and the ambiguous elements- Hemingway and Fitzgerald only possess one of each, it seems.

If I had to pick one, I think I'd actually go with Fitzgerald because I actually like The Great Gatsby fairly well. His prose can be very beautiful at times,which would give him the edge in this case. Then again, his other novels don't equal up nearly as much. Hemingway is not too bad, but being so detached takes away from stories that could otherwise be very good.

Replying to the comment is not a waste of time as you say.
You say personal tastes vary, isn't that the whole point of the discussion!

I think you need to read more of both authors as I personally don't think either the sun also rises or tender is the night are anywhere near their best. I'm a fan of both and I think Hemingway's books are more consistently good whereas I love the style of Fitzgerald but I only think he really got it spot on with the great Gatsby.

Paul wrote: "Replying to the comment is not a waste of time as you say.
You say personal tastes vary, isn't that the whole point of the discussion!"

Ah, good,you've added something about themes and pacing. Now we have a basis for discussion. Some people want action, while others are more interested in depth of character--the "why's" behind the action.

Fitzgerald's Tender is the Night is as slow as anything I've read by Hemingway, including a lengthy digression about a homosexual patient whose father goes to extremes to "cure" his son's perceived disease. Its an interesting diversion, but slows down the book considerably. The good doctor gets used up, discarded, sacrificed, trying to understand and heal the woman he loves. The scope of human devotion is on display and the beauty of the prose makes the long trip through the book enjoyable.

I find Fitzgerald's brilliant psychological insights fascinating, whereas Hemingway doesn't go as deep or seem as interested in what makes people tick.

In For Whom the Bell Tolls, the drama of interpersonal conflict and struggle during wartime is on display, but there's little or no attempt to understand people. They are what they are. Battles are fought, won and lost and the story is about who, when and how, not why.

These are two very different writers, but I can't say one is better than the other. Each has something useful and important to say about the human condition and makes it accessible in his own way. Judging one as better isn't productive for me.

I'm baffled and perplexed; thrown into a state of consternation by the strange phrasing in the title of this thread. What is the OP trying to insinuate? Hemingway Earnest? Eff Scott Fitzgerald because he wasn't as earnest? He was as earnest as Ernest I say. Eff Off? Hemingway Earnest could beat Fitzgerald Scott in a prizefight, okay I admit that. Or is she hinting at some kind of intimate personal thing between the two?

I was baffled by the Hemingway Earnest thing too.

The two writers are hard to compare, it would be easier to do on a book by book basis rather than one author's collected works against the others. Overall I prefer Hemingway, while both are great writers I enjoy Hemingway's subject matter to Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald's depictions of the upper class social circles are well written but only so interesting.

Which isn't saying much, Fitzgerald's 'The Diamond as Big as the Ritz' is one of my favourite short stories, 'The Great Gatsby' is a classic and Hemingway's 'The Sun Also Rises' and 'For Whom the Bell Tolls' are two of my favourite novels.

I think it's a matter of taste/preference. I do not feel these two writers are all that comparable as their style is quite different (if memory serves). I love Fitzgerald's writing but I have never been able to get through a single Hemingway book, unfortunately.

Be that as it may, I don't suppose I am qualified to say which one is truly greater than the other or the greatest of all. I can just say that I prefer Fitzgerald. :)

I think I'm actually going to take back some of my statements in my last comment- I am currently reading Fitzgerald's short stories and am finding myself liking his style a lot better. I have thoroughly enjoyed what I have read so far and am impressed with Fitzgerald's beautiful use of descriptive prose. Maybe he was just suited for short stories and shorter novels better!

Maybe I was too harsh on poor old F. Scott, but I still don't like Tender is the Night or This Side of Paradise.

Hemingway, hands down. His sparse, tight prose really packs a punch and, for all his barrel-chested manliness, he writes about relationships quite tenderly. Fitzgerald's habit of piling words on top of each other in a style that feels almost stream of consciousness bores me to tears. Every now and then, you will find a sentence that is pure gold, but there's a lot of digging to get there. And his understanding of psychiatry was appalling. Endless blah-blahs about tortured rich people - Oh, make it stop!

Are you trying to compare the two authors because they were contemporaries in Paris and personal rivals in life or are you comparing the literature they produced? I am baffled also. You cannot compare apples and oranges.



i>One wrote: "I was baffled by the Hemingway Earnest thing too.

The two writers are hard to compare, it would be easier to do on a book by book basis rather than one author's collected works against the others...."

I agree that it is a matter of taste/preference.


i>Jennifer wrote: "I think it's a matter of taste/preference. I do not feel these two writers are all that comparable as their style is quite different (if memory serves). I love Fitzgerald's writing but I have nev..."

This kind of comment always made me reluctant to offer my opinion. Everyone has a right to speak and everyone should allow others to be heard.



i>Monty J wrote: "You're treating a discussion board as an opinion survey unless you support your empty opinions with explanation and/or parameters for comparison. It's an exercise in ego, a waste of peoples' time, ..."

Janis wrote: "This kind of comment always made me reluctant to offer my opinion. Everyone has a right to speak and everyone should allow others to be heard.


i>Monty J wrote: "You're treating a discussion boa..."

I stand by what I said. Coming here to just say, "I didn't like x" contributes nothing to a discussion. It's just a way of drawing attention to oneself. Only after I lodged my complaint did the OP provide enough specifics to engage in meaningful discussion.

I have a right to be heard as well, and I reserve the right to lodge a complaint when someone's just here to get attention instead of engaging in meaningful discussion.

Many people forget that through necessity and because of FSF's habits;much of his effort went into his short stories. Absolution, Babylon Revisited and his "Crack Up" articles exhibit not only hid genius but his emotional genius.

Hemingway, although a very good short story writer never let any of his readers get to 'know' him and measure his maturity; that goes for his novels and short fiction.

Fitzgerald told America's 'story' in one short novel. The writing was beautiful and through eternity ,that book will represent America at it's best and worst. Nothing Hemingway wrote represented anything but his talent and his ego!

Hemingway and Fitzgerald are important American writers. To say that one is better than the other may simply be a matter of personal preference because it couldn't be based on their merits.

I happen to prefer Fitzgerald's writing style over Hemingway's but that says nothing about who is the better writer.

Each writer deals with vastly different topics, which makes it difficult to compare them in terms of "greatness". Though both writers lived in Europe, Hemingway tends to focus on American and European experiences. In that sense, one might say he is an international writer, which the Nobel committee evidently considered when awarding him the prize.

Fitzgerald, on the other hand, has set stories in Paris but his focus is much more on the American experience. And of course, The Great Gatsby is one of the greatest American novels ever written. In many ways, one could argue that it is the quintessential American novel with its focus on money v. wealth, the invention of self, and the use of vision as a metaphor for understanding the difference between what is real and what appears real as well as superficiality v. authenticity. After all America has always been a land of illusion.

Both writers are unique and important contributors to American letters. Rather than argue about who is the greater writer, it might be more insightful to think about each writer's range.

Fitzgerald's themes are more limited than Hemingway's. Hemingway's spare prose, his emphasis on showing rather than telling, and his iceberg approach to narrative revolutionized writing and arguably helped contribute to defining American literature which up until his arrival was still influenced by European forms.

To that extent, Hemingway could be said to be the more important writer. But that doesn't mean he is a better writer or even a more interesting writer than Fitzgerald. Hemingway's prose leaves many readers cold and his cutting language to the bone makes many of his descriptions as congealed as the eggs and bacon on Harold Kreb's plate in "Soldier's Home".

In the final analysis, Hemingway and Fitzgerald are incomparable writers. They offer much of value to readers. What they have contributed to American literature is important and time spent reading their writing is rewarding no matter one's personal preference or idiosyncrasies.

Is there a book anywhere with a more hauntingly beautiful first page than Hemingway's A Farewell To Arms?

The journey to Spain in The Sun also Rises takes the reader into a time before the lost generation, rich in cultural ancestry. Like ancient heroes, Hemingway's protagonist completes a life cycle. While The Great Gatsby is a more perfect novel, the transcendence of Jake's odyssey makes Hemingway's novel more adventurous and more complex.

Making no pretensions towards naming a definitive victor, I can say that I like Hemingway more. It can be argued that Fitzgerald wrote the most singularly perfect book between the two (The Great Gatsby is a marvel of literary engineering - everything is balanced, with not a single word mislaid nor transition loosely fastened), but on the whole, Hemingway's work has stayed with me longer. Even having read nearly all his fiction and being somewhat less susceptible to the occasionally mannered nature of his prose, there are still paragraphs in his best books, my favorites being A Farewell to Arms and his enchanting memoir, A Moveable Feast, that have me reaching for a bannister or handrail to keep upright. Much is made of the almost sacrosanct economy of his style, but what moves me most is his vulnerability, his need to show the tenderness that often unites those besieged by brutal times.