Brain Pain discussion

This discussion covers Marie Darrieussecq’s novel, Pig Tales.

Ok, this is of the weirdest things I've ever read.

Weirder than Kafka?

I think so, yes. It's still sort of early going, so we'll see, but really early in, when I hit the bit about filling the piscine with sharks and then swimming in the blood water I thought, you know, this is really weird. It's only gotten weirder since.

I think what's different from the Kafka for me is that I keep trying to imagine the society she's living in, and not just her personal experience. There's something about consumption and class and....I don't even know, but there are hints taking you outside her personal metamorphosis.

Which I guess there are in the Kafka too, as they seem to have really needed his income, but this still seems different somehow...

Nicole wrote: "Which I guess there are in the Kafka too, as they seem to have really needed his income, but this still seems different somehow..."

By the end, you'll see this is very different. I was surprised and impressed with where she took this book.

okay, about 2/3 in, post-election, and I am really liking this. I like how she is the victim of political circumstances without even really realizing what is going on.

I also keep trying to track whether she gets more/less piggy depending on events and context. Either because the transformation liberates her from something, or because she is behaving in a particularly piggy way and it's a punishment, or some third thing that I haven't thought of. I'm not really seeing large-scale patterns, but there are a few hints: she's less piggy with the hotel guy who's in love with her, a thing that seemed to approach a supportive relationship, she's more piggy again right before going on tv in support of this Edgar character, less piggy when she's reading the banned books....

Nicole wrote: "okay, about 2/3 in, post-election, and I am really liking this. I like how she is the victim of political circumstances without even really realizing what is going on.

I also keep trying to track ..."

It would be best to discuss when you finish, but she does develop the ability to understand and somewhat control her transformations.

This is a surprisingly good book, blending politics, feminism, genre fiction (dystopia, magic realism, romance, thriller) and a bit of philosophy to meld it all together.

A song I was thinking of as I read the book:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhSc8...

Okay, finished. For a short book whose prose was not particularly dense, I feel like it took a while, possibly because every few pages I had to look up and say, WTF?

This book was weirder than Kafka, if only because english-speaking people grow up with the word "kafkaesque" and therefore know to expect something odd from him, while darrieussecqesque is not really a thing.

I still think what I like best about it is the way that the narrator basically sails completely unknowing through the dystopia she inhabits, even when its features negatively affect her life in a direct way. She keeps saying, I'm not political, or I've never understood politics, but it seems like maybe she would have been better off if she did. Or maybe not, though I think at one point there is the suggestion that the very people Edgar napalms for being unsightly had voted for him in the election, so probably more weighted on the side of yes. She does seem to finally get a clue about her mother and former boss at the end, and opt for happiness for herself instead of being the best employee and prostitute she can be, which is a kind of political awareness, I guess. It's certainly a quality of life improvement.

I found there was also the pretty strong suggestion that the only job available to an unskilled woman is prostitution, or that all of these jobs are like prostitution somehow, or come with an unspoken sexual component. Along with this, the idea that a woman can be jettisoned if she's no longer pretty (or otherwise desirable sexually: the book allows for a pretty wide gamut of sexual tastes).

Somehow, given this set-up, transforming into a pig functions both as an analogy for the condition she already has (livestock, commodity, something to be consumed and discarded without thought, not fully human, the butt of jokes) and also her escape from it (she's never really happier than when she accepts being a pig, eats acorns from the ground, and rolls in the mud). I like that this image is hard to pin down as a single symbol, that it's a moving target, though it makes for a disorienting reading experience, as I was always sure the author had a point but never quite sure what it was.

Sadly, I didn't get around to reading any of the Kafka stories, though I've read some before, but this little piggy tale appealed to me, especially as I hadn't heard of it before.

I'm about half-way through so far and thoroughly enjoying it; I'm wondering how it will turn out so I've only half-read some of the comments above at the moment to avoid any spoilers. I'll read on...

I would have liked to have read this, and the discussion intrigues me. (I skimmed to avoid anything that might seem too spoilerish, but didn't worry about it too much). My difficulty is that I can't get over the hurdle of paying one cent to purchase the book, plus seventeen dollars to have it delivered to Korea... plus, you know, waiting... Well, it will be read by me someday.

Zadignose wrote: "I would have liked to have read this, and the discussion intrigues me. (I skimmed to avoid anything that might seem too spoilerish, but didn't worry about it too much). My difficulty is that I can'..."

Have you ever used Open Library? I just discovered this resource last week.
Pig Tales is available there: https://openlibrary.org/books/OL24931...
You need to join but then you can borrow it in e-format!

Awesome. It never occurred to me that a book would be available to borrow in ebook form if it's not available for purchase in ebook form. Neither did I think about borrowing ebooks generally... hmmmm, this is a strange concept.

P.S., I'm only on page 7, and I already think this book is great for its use of understatement and irony... perversity and oddness too. He had never "met such a wholesome girl!" pants Honore... and the ejaculating perv at the train turnstile on whom she makes "much more of an impression" than usual. Holy hell, she's not even a pig yet... sharks bloodying the water in the pool... whee!

The shark thing is where the book got me. It was at that moment that I was like, what...is this? (but in a good way)

I'm halfway through now. This book is amazing.

The abruptness of the old lady's murder was something. And:

"The one thing I regreetted was not having seen the end of the party at Aqualand, when I'd never in my whole life been invited to such a high-class affair."

And everything.

The story begins to escalate at the halfway point; it's more bizarre but still in the same 'matter of fact' tone. Brilliant stuff.

Jonathan wrote: "The story begins to escalate at the halfway point; it's more bizarre but still in the same 'matter of fact' tone. Brilliant stuff."

It's in the "matter of fact" and "understated" events and comments that the story unleashes its power. The reader recognizes what's going on by filling in what isn't said/shown.

Although I chose this book to compare with Kafka's Metamorphosis, I think it comes closer to Apuleius' Metamorphosis (The Golden Ass). Rather than limit the story to Kafka's bug or Roth's breast, trapped in their respective bedrooms, Darrieussecq takes her pig out into the world of criminals and kings and all that entails.

There are a lot of levels to this book, which I hope we can discuss when you're all finished.

I loved this book intensely. I've posted a little review over here.

I commented there that, if we want to get into feminism, the stunning thing is how, despite being abused in every possible way, the protagonist remains sympathetic to her abusers and evaluates her own worth mainly by the degree to which she's attractive. Gang raping her is no big deal, but calling her "not so hot" is hurtful. Women's magazines also get jabbed at.

This author really knows how to deliver a punchline. I think, there was one moment in the book when I felt most disturbed, something that felt like a turning point where I almost couldn't distance myself from the cruelty of it. That was when a henchman--or "gorilla"--of the politician takes away a girl who's already been brutalized, gets her in a room to rape her again, and then shoots her in the head, and I thought ...oh... my..., and then the protagonist's understated reaction was "I was disappointed in him." Oh my god, that was a shock and it made me laugh despite myself.

Two lines related to the pizza delivery guy were amazing to me. The second one was just as the first delivery comes in the intense moment of their anticipation and psychic struggle, and the Moonlight Madness CEO/werewolf leaps up and turns the delivery guy into a burst of blood, sauce, and flying pizza, and the protagonist says "I decided there was no doubt about it: home deliver is incredibly convenient."

But the first line related to pizza, which introduced the whole theme was weirder, as came across as a complete non sequitur. When they're holed up in the apartment and trying not to go out during the moonlight, and... "When he turned to me and I saw the crazed look in his eyes, I felt this burning pain in my belly; I'd never seen him this way in our home. I thought, 'Time to call Pronto Pizza.'"

I think I was expecting anything but that as a reaction!

Ah, there are so many other moments throughout the book which have the power of surprise. Her response to the conditions of her relationship with the homeless guys was the same. It's just outrageous that she can have a perspective where she can say "they took advantage, understandably." And, of all the ways a person might feel about being abused, the last one would expect is "living with them I regained a certain dignity."

I think favorite throw-away, by the way, line was: "Il m'a reniflée sous le derrière au lieu de me serrer la main, mais à part ça il étatit tout à fait chic...."

Yes, except for that one little thing where he sniffed my ass in greeting, he was completely chic.

We all have our foibles.

Great review Zadignose. I found the style kept making me read faster and faster. I had to stop at points to slow down, especially as I feared I was missing parts. The raping and shooting of the girl was one of those points where I did a 'double take'.

Also at Edgar's party was the throwaway remark concerning the boy who was being tortured anally. The narrator felt sorry for him as boys weren't used to such things, implying that girls therefore were.

Great quote Nicole. I take it you're reading in French. It really flows in the English translation. No problems there.

Yes (it's what the library has, it would be sort of weird for them to stock an English translation). They actually have quite a few of her books; I think I'll probably go back for more eventually.

I don't know what the English is like, but the French is written is this almost chatty style. She's always addressing the reader, saying stuff like, "si vous me suivez / if you follow me" when she doesn't want to specify things, and apologizing if the explicit content is shocking, even though she, herself, is never shocked to be the object of such acts. Her delicacy is like her hurt feelings as described by Zad above: consistently misplaced from any kind of larger political perspective.

She's worried about her dress being ruined, not being thought pretty (though this does affect her livelihood in a pretty direct way), not getting to go to the really big parties where they have sharks and gang rapes, but she wouldn't want to shock you with any explicit mention of anal sex, because, you know, we have to have some behavioral standards, and you, the reader, might find that shocking.

Also, to completely shift direction mid-post, I never really did figure out exactly how they used her picture on the Edgar billboard. I got the decided impression that she was the butt of some kind of joke, or possibly even being held up as an example of all that was wrong with France, and she sort of missed it in the excitement of having her picture taken, but I was unable to really pin anything down. There was also possibly some kind of connection to Edgar's new legislation about what jobs women can and cannot have?

ETA, this discussion has me considering bumping her up a star, actually.

Nicole wrote: "Yes (it's what the library has, it would be sort of weird for them to stock an English translation). They actually have quite a few of her books; I think I'll probably go back for more eventually.
..."

The English is also fairly chatty, and much like the French do, she adopts a faux-naïve, almost coquettish style when describing indelicate things. So the narrator is both savvy about what is going on, and yet not completely cognizant of what she is revealing about her world. Brilliant in its way. Darrieusecq is quite a popular author here.

Re: The Edgar billboard, MD leaves the interpretation a bit ambiguous. I read it as being about the excesses of the society, but I think the narrator saw herself as the pride of French womanhood. Could go either way, which is another time where the author let's the reader's perspective control the interpretation.

I'm glad you're all enjoying this book so much. It was a complete surprise and a happy discovery for me too!

There was also a kind of paranoid aspect to it in the way that things circle back to the same characters, and everyone seems to wind up on TV, or on billboards, everyone's important/significant in some way.

I wanted to compare it to the work of many other authors whom I admire in various ways, which is a testament to its accomplishment, as it's original and yet it catches the spirit of many disparate works. Perhaps the author she reminded me the most of was Raymond Queneau, particularly his first novel Witch Grass. Others I thought of along the way were Compte de Lautreamont, Sam Pink, Amos Tutuola, Celine, and of course our buddy Kafka. Some of those associations may seem a stretch, but they somehow make sense to me.

Jim wrote: "Darrieusecq is quite a popular author here."

Yes, even Yann (my completely unliterary husband) had heard of this book when I told him I was reading it. I am still not at that point where I carry the unofficial map of contemporary authors in my head for France the way that I do for the US, and even the UK to a certain extent. I keep waiting for this phase of integration to magically happen to me, even though I still read a ton of books in English.

Meanwhile, nobody, but nobody, seems to have read Patrick Modiano (with the exception of one chick in my book club).

Jim, if you've read other Darrieussecq books, do you like some more than others? Right now I'm leaning toward Naissance Des Fantomes.

Nicole wrote: "Jim wrote: "Darrieusecq is quite a popular author here."

Yes, even Yann (my completely unliterary husband) had heard of this book when I told him I was reading it. I am still not at that point whe..."

This is my first Darrieusecq. I'm not fluent enough to read en français yet, so I will see what else she has in translation.

I have Modiano's Missing Person on my shelf, but haven't read it yet.

Jim wrote: "I have Modiano's Missing Person on my shelf, but haven't read it yet."

Ditto.

I had just assumed you were reading in French also, ooops!

Nicole wrote: "I am still not at that point where I carry the unofficial map of contemporary authors in my head for France.."


Off Topic:

I've barely scratched the surface of French lit, but check out the Prix Goncourt winners for future reads:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prix_Gon...

I also have this reference book to help me understand the la carte et le territoire (Houellebecq joke!):

One Hundred Great French Books: From the Middle Ages to the Present

Re: Naissance Des Fantomes, this one's been translated into English as the Phantom Husband, and I'm gonna have a good peek at it now that I've figured out this awesome openlibrary resource that's about to revolutionize my life.

OFF TOPIC TOO

I actually started, enthusiastic as hell and freshly immigrated to the country, with the Prix Goncourt as my guiding contemporary lit light, bought the aforementioned La carte et le territoire, hated it, I mean seriously LOATHED it, and decided that was the end of Houellebecq and all his prix goncourt ilk for me (I'm pretty sure previous winners have a say in who gets it the next year, and I want nothing to do with a book that Houellebecq selects). That book was one of the worst, sloppiest, most pretentious and self-indulgent things I have ever read, and I have read some bad bad things in my 43 years on the planet.

To be clear, I am not one of those people who hates Houellebecq for his misogyny. I hate him because that book was a slopped together piece of crap, and the fact that his reputation as a "bad boy" is covering up the more basic fact that he either can't, or chose not to take the time to, write well makes me crazy and just the tiniest bit ranty.

As you can probably see.

I've considered the Prix Femina and the France Inter prize as possible substitutes. Actually, suite à the whole Pig Tales thing, I'm thinking the 21st century authors shelf of the campus library may be as good as anything. Maybe I'll head over this afternoon and check out some stuff at random. In addition to, you know, the 12 things I already have checked out and haven't read yet.....

Nicole wrote: "OFF TOPIC TOO

I actually started, enthusiastic as hell and freshly immigrated to the country, with the Prix Goncourt as my guiding contemporary lit light, bought the aforementioned [book:La carte ..."

Whoops! Sorry to set off the Houellebecq rant! Which university are you near?

Okay, to swing this back in the direction of Kafka, does anyone see any influence of Kafka in Pig Tales? Or is this a tale unto itself?

CONTINUING OFF-TOPIC, THOUGH NOW RANT-FREE, BANTER

I actually work at one of the universities on the Grenoble campus (there are five all together in the same physical space), but I have privileges at the intra-university library and two of the Université Stendhal (lit and lang) libraries, so I am pretty much set. It does lead to some weird situations where I read a book in translation from a third language in French instead of in English because that's what they have. There's no reason not to, I guess, but it still feels really weird. Last fall I read Kafka's Metamorphoses in French, for example (see how I'm ALMOST back on topic?). I guess if nothing else it serves to emphasize that thing is foreign and translated, but I always find myself trying to put puzzling passages into English in my head, even though they were not originally written in English.

There's some kind of lesson there about native language, meaning, and our cultural default settings, I think.

QUITE POSSIBLY ON-TOPIC THINGS BEYOND THIS POINT

I think whatever Kafka had in mind with the Metamorphoses, it was maybe more interior than the kinds of points that Darrieussecq seems to be wanting to get at in Truismes. I feel like fundamentally the Kafka story is about interior mental states and also the interior of the family, and does not venture out into political territory in the way that this little novel does.

Nicole wrote: " I feel like fundamentally the Kafka story is about interior mental states and also the interior of the family, and does not venture out into political territory in the way that this little novel does..."

Yes, I agree. Pig Tales is closer in spirit to The Golden Ass: Or Metamorphoses than to Kafka's version.

I also think that connection to Kafka is rather tenuous, but there is some legitimacy in comparing them. Darrieussecq, like Kafka, takes a concept that's rather odd and develops and examines its implications... runs where it takes her. There's also the element of inverting or defying our expectations in terms of logical development. But there's probably more similarity in the framing of the story than in the overall tone of the work. They don't have anything in the way of a similar voice, if that's clear.

Oh, by the way, she starts off with a Hamsun quote, and then Hamsun comes up again in the midst of the work, with the same quote returning... I've read heaps of Hamsun, and I was disappointed in my memory, since I wasn't able to place the quote... I don't recall the source novel.

P.S. the other main difference with Kafka is that there are no Kafkas but Kafka.

And I also meant to ask if anyone has a clue to pronunciation of this author's name. It looks to me rather like DAHR-YU-SEK, or something like that, but if it's Basque in origin, well...

It reminded me of 'The Golden Ass' rather than Kafka, I think basically because the main character does get involved in the outside world. It's been a while since I read TGA though.

I wondered about the Hamsun quote as well. It's annoying it doesn't state which book it was from - 'Growth of the Soil' possibly?

While I was reading this book I listened to a short BBC Radio programme on Proust, as I'm currently reading ISOLT, and who pops up as a contributor but Darrieussecq!

I'll also be checking out other works by her - in translation though.

The more sexual and violent scenes reminded me more of the controlled style of 'The Story of O' rather than de Sade.

A, regarding the Golden Ass, there is a bit about kind of "potion" bringing about metamorphosis, I think, in the chemical concoction of cosmetics, etc, ... witchcraft reference?... and of course there is also the eating of flowers, though that's likely accidental overlap... maybe...

Wow this really is a bat sh*t crazy little book…but in a wonderfully twisted way. I am about 1/2 of the way through. She is trying desperately to use creams and make-up to cover up her changing complextion. The rhetorical expression "…you can't put lipstick on a pig…" keeps running through my head.

Jane from B.C. wrote: " "…you can't put lipstick on a pig…".."

...you can, but it's hard to find the right shade...


Glad you're enjoying the book!

My first impression of My Phantom Husband is that it's entirely different, it's more conventional, and the oddness is more in the author's unusual turn of a phrase than in narrative circumstances. I just got a start on it, but it feels like a bit of a comedown from this one.

Zadignose wrote: "My first impression of My Phantom Husband is that it's entirely different, it's more conventional, and the oddness is more in the author's unusual turn of a phrase than in narrative c..."

Oooh! Too soon, too soon! Gotta leave some breathing space until you come down a bit from the Pig Tales high...

I'm going to look at My Phantom Husband during the Xmas holiday.

I was looking at the French wikipedia page for Darrieusecq with my wife and she was extremely impressed by MD's education. In her words, "Of course she's a great writer, look where she went to school" Apparently MD's education is about the best you can get in France if you want to write.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Da...

Also, for pronunciation, 4 syllables:

dah-ree-uh-sec

Oh, I agree with Jim, it's probably too soon to start another book by MD, especially if the style's different. I'd give it at least a month.

'Pig Tales' is still 'settling'; my opinions of it are still forming. It's a good sign, I think, that I'd like to re-read the book even though I've just finished it.

Just for fun, I decided to read some of the one-star and two-star reviews for this book. That didn't turn out to be fun. Not much outrage, mostly disinterested dismissal, though I did see a "yucky", and one reader wanted to take a shower. I resisted warning this reader "I hope you don't drown", as he'd abandoned it before the scene with hotel guests getting drowned in their showers, and I don't want to be trollish... much.