Mrs. Jernigan's AP Class discussion
The Lost Generation
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Tender, Group 2
Mod
After following John Wade through his horrid transformations, looks like Fitzgerald provides another chameleon to lead us through this picture show of the Lost Generation. Dick Diver, Carnival Leader/Dream Weaver, takes shape and substance through direct and indirect observations of Rosemary, a lady whose "body hovered delicately on the last edge of childhood" (4). Poor Rosie, she will be drawn to Dick and his funhouse, but are her wings strong enough to carry her from its destruction?
The Divers wield culture like "kings," "rajahs," and "princes" (15). As a couple they are as mysterious as the sea- compelling, alluring, yet dangerous like fire. Dick's attentive handling of Rosemary "was all completely there" for "his voice [...] wooed the world" (19). Her reaction to the carnival was simply to let its "expensive simplicity" (21) consume her, but as the narrator quickly reminds us, she was "unaware of its complexity and lack of innocence" (21). Dick's "taking care of her" (21) includes his seductive words as he tells her she "look[s] like something blooming" (22). The god-like nature of the Divers is reinforced by Fitzgerald's characterization of their audience in that they "turned up ashen faces to her, like souls in Purgatory watching the passage of a mortal" (23). Clearly distinguishing the two groups and the power they wield over others, the narrator gives this perception a duality...a hidden, secretive persona that begins to bleed into the "reality." This exposure begins in the "bathroom" - but the Divers have fierce protectors (Cerberus like guardians) driven to guard hidden truths from crushing the "rose-colored" sandcastles built for the amusement and entertainment and seduction of their following.
Mod
Like Mother, Like Daughter
So far, the book is a little scattered. The narration is at times hard to follow, skipping from scene with an energy and vitality that mirrors Rosemary's desire for excitement and entertainment. There have also been so many characters introduced in such a short time. It is very quick-paced and all over the place.
Rosemary herself seems naive, a little shallow, and selfish. The quickness with which she "fell in love" (12) with Dick Diver and told him that fact was typical of a seventeen year old, but the fact that he is married and significantly older than her makes it inappropriate and strange. Dick and Nicole are a curious couple, obviously with some secrets, clear when Barban states, "it's in advisable to comment on what goes on in this [the Diver's] house" (36). They love to entertain and to host, but there is some quality about both that seems secretive and hidden. The McKiscos are a little annoying; he is always negative and complaining, and Violet is always gossiping.
Another interesting realationship in the book is between Rosemary and her mother, Mrs. Speers, which seems strange/off. Her mom pushed her into the whole acting career because of her looks, and Rosemary thinks her mom is "perfect" and listen to absolutely everything that she says. Her mom encourages her to pursue Dick, which just seems like bad and not helpful motherly advice, considering that Rosemary is 17 and that Dick is married to Nicole, and because the Divers were so kind and welcoming. She is basically encouraging her daughter to be a home wrecker. She also suggests that Rosemary go see the duel b/n hot headed Barban and mr. McKisco, which could have been bloody and dangerous. So, I think that relationship will take a weird turn as the book continues. Overall, I don't love this story or a specific character yet (except for Nicole, I like her!) but I am curious to learn more about the divers and see how this love triangle between Rosemary, Dick, and an Nicole turns out.
The scenery is so picturesque,and I think it intentionally contrasts with the conflict and odd relationships forming between the vast assimilation of characters.
Mod
Beauty is everything
I wouldn't call this book interesting or gripping, so far. From what I have read, Rosemary is not a very well thought out character. We don't get to see her thoughts or anything, just what she looks like and how much of an irritating character she is. She hangs out with Dick Diver who's married and older and has kids and she likes him which is just so weird. It seems like this book isn't a whole lot more than just talking about Rosemary and her mother vacationing on the beach. Speaking of her mother, it struck me how one-sided the relationship between Rosemary and her mother seems to be. Her mother is distant, maybe a little demanding, and Rosemary thinks all the best of her, calling her her best friend and telling her everything. When she tells her she fell in love with an older married father, her mom basically tells her to go for it. It's so odd; her mother is giving her obviously problematic advice - go into acting at a young age, use beauty to achieve fame, pursue a married man - and Rosemary doesn't think twice before taking her advice. It seems like the secondary characters, such as the McKiscos or Abe North, have more personality than the main characters.
Mod
Seascapes and Shallow Sand
From what I've read of this book, I'm not the biggest fan of it yet. I find Rosemary to be shallow, naive and honestly the most irritating type of person anyone can be. If I'm being honest, every charcter that I've come across in this book holds a vain attitude about them. Perhaps its the way people behaved and conversed in the 1920s but all of these people come off as self-seeking and empty. Rosemary's mother seems to be the worst of all as she lets her seventeen year old pine after a married man. Dick Diver seems to be the only character with a sensible head on his shoulders but he plays the role of the empty headed husband. It will be interesting to see which of these characters have a major arc and which ones are stagnant. I'm curious to see how these characters relate to each other as well. Fitzgerald is probably commenting on the times through the use of his characterization however, I sincerely hope the climax of these characters is greater than that of The Great Gatsby. I don't want to be underwhelmed with the novel and so far I'm not impressed.
Fitzgerald has already started weaving in underlying symbols. I'm curious as to what the sea is going to represent later on. The way it moves and crashes on the shore plays into the mood of the novel and the moods of Rosemary. Also, the color pink is present in the first few chapters. Even the fact that the main character's name is Rosemary ties in with the colorful symbol. Perhaps the color represents the rosy view of the 1920s people had and they were incapable of seeing the real issues. I'm curious to see where this novel goes because right now it seems like another empty 1920s novel that I've read before.
Mod
So far there hasn't really been anything super significant. Rosemary seems like she is very concieted and thinks that being a famous actress will get her by. One quote that was interesting to me was when Mrs. McKisco tells Rosemary that she "thought [she] may be in the plot" (7) and that the people who live here aren't in the plot, that they are just "the gallery" (8). One thing that bothered me is Rosemary's relationship with her mother. Rosemary keeps saying that her mother is perfect and everything she's does is great parenting. Rosemary's mother doesn't really do any parenting at all and it seems like her mother is a bit of a pushover. I also predict that Rosemary and Dick Diver will have an affair. I think that Rosemary wants him because he is unattainable and even though she keeps saying she is going to hate it here I think she wa to to be apart of "the gallery."
Mod
Colors Everywhere
F. Scott Fitzgerald is an incredible writer. He always provides interesting characters and beautiful settings. However, he has habit of supplying too much information that distracts from what's happening. I find myself reading passages over and over because I do not understand the significance of it.
Although she's kind of self-centered and desperate, I think Rosemary is an intriguing narrator. Her relationship between her mother is captivatingly creepy. She always describes her as "the perfect mother." I want to know more about them... where their skeletons lie.
I can see a lot of foreshadowing with her obsession with Dick Driver. He may or may not be hiding his feeling for Rosemary; but, for the most part, he sees her as a little girl. I like Nicole's character. I can see the darkness in her. She always described as "hard" yet "beautiful." I know we will see more to her...
The first scene was beautifully written. When Rosemary is on the beach, and there are two parties: one pale and one tan. I can totally picture that. The fact that the "pale" one came up to her, completely sets up the series of events throughout the novel.
Overall, the book is okay for the most part but it could be so much better. If Fitzgerald can tone it down on the (possibly) useless information, the novel would be stronger.
Mod
-----Characterization:
Rosemary- naive, foolish, self-absorbed, blind follower; wants to be in the inner circle, textbook actress, wants to love and be loved/attention
Mrs. Speers- steriotypical 1920s woman, people-pleaser, doesn't disagree with Rosemary, calculated, not argumentative
Dick Diver- Magician archetype, putting on an act, mind games, draws Rosemary in, secretive; controlling
Sees Rosemary as a foolsih young girl, but is attrcted to her; Loves Nicole
Nicole- mysterious, polite, hard-edged, sharpness, beautiful, subdued
McKiscos- Voliet saw something in the house, pale, gosspiy, curious'; husband is negative, cynical
Barban- protective, restless, looks for war/a fight, knows the Diver's secrets
-----Setting:
French Rivera, beautiful and rose-colored, secluded: Rosemary; looks good on the outside, but there might be darkness underneath the rosy hue; Fitzgerald catches the reader off-guard by bringing up conflicts in the serene beautiful setting; sea/ocean: moves and crashes, wildness, unpredictability, represents the Divers??
-----Threads:
Rosemary and Mom: mother/daughter relationship, mom is "perfect"
Innocence to maturity: Rosemary coming-of-age, first love; Divers bringing her into maturity
Nicole mystery
Pattern of Rosy colors: Divers, appear perfect on the outside
Magic: Dick's magic during the party, power over Rosemary
Appearance relecting status/inner-self: paleness of the french party- boring; Rosemary starts out pale, but immediatley get burned, different from both groups; tanness of the American party- exciting
-----Conflicts:
Mom vs. Daughter- potential conflict; strange controlling and all-consuming relationship
Barban vs. McKiscos- fight in a duel: based on the Diver's secrets
Nicole vs. Rosemary- potential conflit about Dick
Dick vs. Self- attrction to Rosemary, love for Nicole
Rosemary vs. Self- dealing with fame, status, being wanted by men, finding who she is; first love is married
Mod
Cantos I and II
Artifact:
What the Hell - Read and be ready to discuss
Questions to Consider:
1. While the gates predict what is to come, they also suggest what Dante will question. How indeed will he wrestle with sights so gruesome that he faints or calls on us to inspire him - encourage him - push him onward?
2. Based on how he ran from the she-wolf in the dark woods, what do we expect out of our "I am no Aeneas, no Paul?" Why then is he worthy for this journey?
3. Why is Vergil a significant guide for the exiled poet to follow?
4. What parallels does Dante introduce in the opening scene? How will these repeat as the poem continues?
5. How does Dante evoke visual, auditory, olfactory, and kinesthetic imagery as he guides us through Hell?
6. How has Dante's epic lived on in the modern age? Why?
The True MagicianAt the beginning of the book, I had Dick pegged as the 'magician archetype' in the story. Rosemary seemed to be under a spell, drawn in by his maturity and masculinity and smoothness. She was instantly in love, instantly obsessed, and winning his love became her goal. As the story has progressed, I sense these roles reversing.
Once Dick admits to Rosemary that he is in love with her, she says "I just wanted to make you love me--if you love me everything's all right" (75). However, as Dick slips deeper into this affair of the heart, he realizes that "Rosemary had her hand on the lever more authoritatively than he" (85). He is no longer the controlling magician--Rosemary is. He is the one that is obsessed now, that is jealous of Rosemary's past boyfriends, that broods and pines for her. And now that Rosemary has 'conquered' Dick, she seems to begin, ever so slightly, to lessen her interest. In a letter to her mother, she says how she "fell in love" with a director that is going to direct her next movie--stating in parenthesis that she loves Dick best, which seems like an afterthought (95). After meeting this director, she is ready to leave the Divers and move on to her next conquest. She has gone through and ruined Dick, and he has reached a "turning point" in his life of faithfulness to Nicole and of control from which he cannot easily return (91).
This sudden switch in roles reminds me of the character role confusion in "In the lake of the woods" between John and Kathy. We assume John is the magician from the first chapter, but later on in the book Kathy reveals to have much more influence than we originally thought. She has a whole other side of her that, previously hidden, is suddenly revealed!
This switch in roles makes me question other things that I had previously assumed about Rosemary and her relationships with others. While I have seen her mother as controlling and domineering up to this point, perhaps the roles are reversed there as well. Rosemary could be the one controlling her mother, who just holds the illusion of control. Rosemary, after all, was the one who decided how long her and her mother would stay in France, and even though she changed her mind many times, her mother always listened to her. Rosemary's career is also the thing that is determining where they go and what they do.
Instead of seeing Rosemary as a naive, selfish, easily persuaded victim, I am starting to believe that she has a hidden side underneath all the innocence and beauty, a side that is cold and calculating. She is the true magician now, and everyone else is just part of her show.
Separation AnxietyRosemary goes shopping with Nicole in this section, and I found this important because Rosemary interacts with her like she isn't even Dick's wife. She overhears them talking right before, and it is a wake up call to her that they are a couple. The whole time they were shopping, she acted very conflicted and jealous, and Rosemary commented on how "beautiful" and "hard" Nicole is. Rosemary pleas her love for Dick and she wished that she could just be with her mother. This whole situation shows how petty Rosemary is to convince herself that she is in love with a married man. Rosemary is not really in love with Dick, she just wants to be accepted in this social circle and Dick is the leader. He is everything she in-visions herself to be with, and she acts innocent to the fact that he is married. When Rosemary talks about Dick, she does not seem concerned in the least bit about his marriage. Rosemary's mother is very controlling yet passive at the same time, and Rosemary has become too dependent on her. This is the first time that Rosemary ventures alone without her mother, and the first thing she does is go after a married man. Nicole seems very distant, even when she talks to Dick and Rosemary. She does not seem like she pays much attention to Dick or anyone. She is very secretive and she is hiding something from the outside. Rosemary's lack of control from her mother leads her to want to be controlled by Dick. She would drop anything and everything for Dick in an instant. After the shopping spree, she describes Nicole and the American women as "happy to exist in a man's world" and that they have no other identity expect through a man. This is ironic because of how much "love" she feels for Dick and how much he controls her thinking and actions. Rosemary will become exactly like what she claims to detest. Rosemary just doesn't even acknowledge the fault in her actions and acts like she has the excuse of being young and innocent. Soon enough she will get into some real trouble and realize the shallowness in her, and the people around her. The fact that Rosemary cannot even go shopping without her mother there shows how much she needs someone to tell her what to do. Rosemary is very similar to Nina from Black Swan. Her mother has been the main prominent figure in her life, and as soon as she breaks away from that confinement she tumbles down and does things unimaginable to her previous self. All Nina cared about was being perfect, and all Rosemary cares about is fame and status. All Rosemary wants is a textbook movie star life and to steal a married man away from his wife, and the people that she surrounds herself with are just as hollow as she is so they will participate in the same petty acts as she.
Diving InAgain, this book keeps making less and less sense as I continue to read. Perhaps it is the way Fitzgerald is writing but I'm a bit lost with all of the character's storylines. However, one character has started to develop more.
Dick Diver has mystery written all over him. It plays into his charm and the attraction that Rosemary sees. The way Fitzgerald physically characterizes him. His voice has an "irish melody," his eyes are "hard blue" (17). His stature and stance stand tall as he gives his "flattering attention" to whoever he talks with (17). Wherever he goes, he "open[s] the gate to his amusing world" and lures in a personal group of friends that he has so carefully picked out (24). He resembles that of a magician pulling the audience in and out of wonder. Dick's audience in this case is Rosemary. He's strange with her. One moment he wants her, the next he is "chilled by the innocence of her kiss" (55). I'm still trying to figure out what Fitzgerald is creating in Dick Diver. He is definitely pulling the strings of a larger story whichs makes him the magician. But, why is he pulling strings? What is he hiding? Why is it "inadvisable to comment on what goes on" in Dick Diver's house?(32) Perhaps, he is afraid of something. He calls himself a doctor, is he a fraud? He seems to hide behind his wealth and status. He seems similar to Jay Gatsby in his secrecy. He hosts marvelous parties and proves to be outgoing but deals with horrors behind closed doors. It seems to be a similar trend with Fitzgerald's novels, the glamourous life of the roaring twenties can only cover up secrets for a small amount of time.
Zayne Patient vs. Patience
The relationship between Rosemary and Dick grew immensely through there trip together. Before the 'vacation,' Dick thought of her a child it seemed like. For example, when at the Driver's party, he "acted like he didn't hear her" (41) when Rosemary expressed her feelings for Dick. He did what an adult does to a child when he or she acts/says something that is far too old for them say.
Now, it seems like the feelings are mutual between the two; however, with Rosemary being too attached. Rosemary would "remember the times" (77) with him like when they went dancing to reflect on when "she felt happy" (77). Her growing obsession with him provides an interesting narrative. We never know what she is going to do to pronounce her "love."
Adultery is a tricky subject, so one has to realize that Rosemary is completely going behind Nicole's back by romancing with Dick. Rosemary does not feel any remorse that she is breaking up a marriage. Her self-obsorption tends to be a barrier from other people's emotions.
Nicole has been a mystery to the reader. She's described as "the product of much ingenuity and toil" (55). Althought her cleverness has not be fully revealed to the reader, the narrator hints at it from time to time. The audience knows that the true Nicole will be revealed soon, but the reader fails to comprehend as to why Dick stays with her. Is it to fix or cure her from her ailment? Perhaps, there is a much darker element to this mysteriously couple.
MODERATOR DAY:With the introduction of Book 2, Fitzgerald supplies us with many character revelations by giving us the story behind the mysterious and puzzling Divers.
1) How does Fitzgerald's use of a fractured narrative structure enhance and alter our understanding of the characters (specifically Dick and Nicole) and the story as a whole?
2) In Nicole's letters to Dick, she refers to him many times, in her her muddled and confused state, as a cat: "you have a kind cats face" (124) "like an ordinary with a white cat" (122). What is significant about this comparison? What do you think it expresses about Dick? Is it an accurate comparison?
3) In learning about Nicole's past, we discover that she was about Rosemary's age when she was admitted into the insane asylum and first met Dick. Why is this significant? How do Rosemary and Nicole compare and contrast, especially in their relationships with Dick? What does this say about Dick?
4) "It was hard to think of deliberately cutting life down to the scale of an inherited suit" (133) How does Dick's dinner with Franz and his wife effect him and how does it continue to have an impact on him for the rest of his life? Why does he fear being "like the rest"?
1. i think fitzgerald, through a fractured narrative, is depicting or almost describing the relationship between Dick and Nicole. He gives the reader jagged moments of Dick and Nicole some are fine but mostly they are confused and dissoriented just like the structure of the book.However, the readers have never seen the full piture or full end result of the puzzle of Dick and Nicole. The end wont come until the puzzle pieces are put together and the relationship is fully understood.
2.Some words to describe cats would be, cunning, sneaky, fierce, always landing on their feet. Some how all of these words describe Dick's character in a very distinct way. Throughout this novel Dcik has shown signs of being very sneaky or cunning but one trait that both cats and Dick share is that they are both underestimated. I think fitzgerald is trying to get the reader to underestimate Dick because of his vulnerability towards Rosemary, when in reality he will end up landing on his feet.
Shaina wrote: "1. i think fitzgerald, through a fractured narrative, is depicting or almost describing the relationship between Dick and Nicole. He gives the reader jagged moments of Dick and Nicole some are fine..."Shaina, how do you think these dissoriented moments define Dick and Nicole? Have your initial "jagged" impresssions of each character changed after hearing some of the dark history that surrounds their love story?
I think Rosemary is the next Nicole for dick, she is young and beautiful and innocent. She seems to have everything put together. The question is do you think they will live happily ever after or will the cycle continue and rosemary becomes Dick's next patient?
Shaina wrote: "2.Some words to describe cats would be, cunning, sneaky, fierce, always landing on their feet. Some how all of these words describe Dick's character in a very distinct way. Throughout this novel Dc..."It is also said that "All cats have nine lives." Do you Dick also possesses these inherent survivial instincts? How does he keep himself young and lively, despite his age?
Mod
The fractured structure mirrors Nicole's persona. As we try to sift through the shifting places and backstories, we too are granted shards of truths and mistruths to sort through in attempts to make meaning. The entire work reads almost like a case study of a doctor trying to assess a patient.
Also, Fitz makes nature of Nicole's "split personality" or schizophrenia part of the structure itself as he reveals bits and pieces of her character to the public then stages a "big reveal" in one of the two bathroom scenes. His design or revealing of her is suspenseful, just like the schizophrenic is never consistent or predictable in his or her behavior patterns.
2. In Nicole's letters to Dick, she refers to him many times, in her her muddled and confused state, as a cat: "you have a kind cats face" (124) "like an ordinary with a white cat" (122). What is significant about this comparison? What do you think it expresses about Dick? Is it an accurate comparison?
Nicole's letters attempt to cast Dick (who is her psychiatrist....) as a father-figure, replacing her own father, and thus something independent of her in a way. Her perspective is interesting for felines tend to alternate between the extremes of indifference and needy behavior. Perhaps to Nicole, this is Dick's pattern as well (and her father's). The real question is how does Fitz characterize his alter ego? Is he cat-like in his needs and presence? What do you think?
1.) Fitzgerald almost seems to enjoy messsing with his audience just a small bit. In reality, it would have made sense to start with the story of Dick and Nicole but he lets the reader wonder and guess about them before he reveals the truth. Fitzgerald uses the fractured narrative to introduce the characters in the present time and lets the reader make assumptions. He then travels back a few years to dig up the problems the reader has already picked up on. Our understanding of why Dick suddenly starts to stray from Nicole and cling to Rosemary begins to grow a little more. Yes, he 'loves' or lusts after Rosemary but is it because Nicole is still mentally unstable? Has he grown tired of hiding how she truly is? 2.) A cat. Isn't a cat quiet and sly? That's what I can gather from it. From what we know, Dick can be sly and quiet since he runs around with Rosemary so often. Cat's generally have soft, sweet faces with sharp eyes. Dick's eyes are personified as "hard blue" so perhaps Fitzgerald wants the reader to think of Dick like a cat as well.
3.) Well, I think it means that Dick prefers youth; he doesn't want things to age. Rosemary and Nicole are both very beautiful in different ways. The biggest difference between them is that Rosemary carries almost none of the emotional baggage that Nicole does. Rosemary's a movie star, she doesn't have too much to be concerned about. What she worries about the most is if Dick loves her more than he loves Nicole. Dick craves Rosemary's youthful glow and the innocence. If Rosemary's not careful around Dick she might turn into another Nicole. Yes, Nicole is scarred from her abusive childhood but why is she still so deep in that mental state? Has Dick done something to keep Nicole in her mental state? He seems to be the one who's pulling all the tricks and playing his cards right.
4.) He doesn't want to be just a pyshciatric doctor. He wants his life to be full and vibrant. This probably explains the parties and extravagant outings to Paris. He's desirable and he can get away with having more than one lover. This dinner with Franz scares him into the life he leads now. He wants to live the high society, roaring 20s life. He attempts to live this way at all costs. He doesn't want to sink into a hole with his work like Franz does. He wants to live but perhaps the way he goes about living isn't the best way.
I think this is a huge piece to Dick's puzzle. He does not want to be bornig and he does not want an ordinary or scaled down life like Franz he wants adventure and mystery which is why in the earlier chapters Dick wanted his dinner to have "brawls" and "seductions" he didn't want it to be a regular boring dinner. Maybe that is why he married one of his patients because he knew it would be different and difficult. Or maybe he knew he needed some one screwed up to love him because no one else would accept the way he is. I think Dick sees the box that Franz is in and he never wants to enter that box.
The structure displays a maturing technique (specifically of Rosemary) through the creation of different viewpoints. Character development in the minor characters is more pronounced than usual, which I find to be confusing but interesting. Fitzgerald's structure is fractured, representing the brokenness of his characters and their tattered relationshipsWhen I think of a cat I think of sneaky, quiet, feisty, and cunning. I see Dick as all these things, but not until later on in the novel. Cats, always landing on their feet, are underestimated a lot. I definitely think this is an accurate comparison, and it expresses his character as being unpredictable. How do you think the audience is going to underestimate him as a character?
Nicole was presented as having it all together as a strong and independent woman, so it is definitely a shift in the plot when the audience discovers Nicole was admitted and could still be sick. Nicole is who Rosemary looks up to, so it is concerning now after finding out Nicole is one of Dick's patients. I think Dick tried to save Nicole and now, as the cycle continues, he is moving on to save Rosemary. Do you think Dick trying to save Rosemary will end up in his abandonment of Nicole? Will this lead Nicole to destruction?
I think Dick is afraid of ending up having a dull and ordinary life. Could this be why he married an insane person? I think this is why he held that dinner at the beginning of the book and deliberately stated, "I want to give a party where there’s a brawl and seductions and people going home with their feelings hurt and women passed out in the cabinet de toilette.” Anything Dick can do to disrupt the common thread of everyday life, he will do. I think he fears being "like the rest" because he sees the dullness in Franz and the boundaries that his profession has put on his person; his life deliberately cut down "to the scale of an inherited suit."
Mod
If the book reads like Dick's doctor/patient relationship with Nicole, which is really unprofessional and quite disturbing...think The Dangerous Method. Great eye and observation, Casey, with this question. Does it mean that Dick is trying again - to have a relationship with a younger woman that he can steer and control to have a better outcome than his relationship with Nicole? Or does it mean that Rosemary and Nicole both share similar characteristics? The question is has Dick had extra-marital affairs before Rosemary?
1) The character developement of both characters is delayed by flaws that seem to grow deeper as the story continues. Rosemary's simple archeotypal journey of innocence to experience is delayed by her inability for indendence, and an inherent desire to be wanted. 2) Cats can often symbolize a deeper understading of our natural world. Ancient civilization regard cats as gods and held them in high esteem in the community. Cats are often deceivingly cunning and underestimated for their brilliance. In this way, the reader is clued to this imagery that Dick is a white cat, and that he is underestimated and will always land on his feet. Casey Do you believe the cat should be represented in this light.
3) Rosemary's view of Nicole is the antithesis of reality. In other words, Rosemary previously regarded Nicole as someone who had it all together and was a strong independent woman. Rosemary's skewed perspective leaves the reader with the questioning of Rosemary's mental state if she thinks Nicole is the ideal girl. It seems Dick loves a project; meeting girls when they are at their lowest emotional and mental point and essentially raising them up to be his ideal girl.
4)"The truth was that for some months he had been going through that partioning of the things of the youth wherein it is decided whether or not to die for what one no longer believes (133)." The idea of growth vs. stagnation presents itself in Dick's physche. Dick's mental denaturation coincides with his growing desire for love, similar to Rosemary's journey as presented in the beggining of the novel. "He wanted to be loved, too, if he could fit it in (133)." Do you think this quote symbolizes a shift in Dick's mental state to a point of no emotional return?
Holly wrote: "Well, I think it means that Dick prefers youth; he doesn't want things to age. Rosemary and Nicole are both very beautiful in different ways. The biggest difference between them is that Rosemary carries..."Dick seems to be almost ageless. Despite being a married father, he lives like a bachelor having affairs and throwing wild parties. Do you think he actually loves Rosemary, or is it more of a panicked attempt to pull himself back into his youthful past?
Emma wrote: "Fitzgerald's structure is fractured, representing the brokenness of his characters and their tattered relationships..."Emma, where else do you see these tattered relationships between characters? Are any relationships wholesome and together, or do all possess this jagged and broken quality?
1) The narrator's fragemented structure throughout the entire act one made the reader confused as to who the characters are especially Dick and Nicole. The Drivers captivated the reader with their wealth and peculiar attiudes; but now act two finally reveals who they are and the past that defines them. 2) Cats are cunning; they're able to evade situations, so maybe Nicole envisions that Dick will able to use his 'cat-like' skills to get her out of the mental hospital. In Egypt, cats were also the symbol for justice and grace. Perhaps, Nicole wants Dick to right the injustice that has been done to her.
3) Both Rosemary and Nicole shared the desire for attention. As a child, "everyone was crazy" (126) about Nicole. The narrator also desrcibes her as being able to have any man in the whole. Rosemary also had the same luxury, and craved attention like in the beginning when she wanted to be noticed by the "tan party." Surprisingly yet not surprisngly, Nicole and Rosmary fell for an older man, Dick. Nicole going to the "semi-insane-aslyum" (123) may be of foreshadowing the fate of Rosemary. Rosemary definitely has some attachment issues, so perhaps the conclusion of the novel could be her being admitted to a psych ward. I think the doctor in Dick wants to fix these young damsels. He wants to 'cure' Nicole and Rosemary but he's probably making them worse.
4) Dick wants to be forever young in a way. He desires for life to exciting and spontaneous, so I think by getting into weird situations with Nicole and Rosemary, will make him young again. He doesn't want to be like Franz who is all meek and depressed. He wants everything to be unexpected.
Tender is the Night: New ThreadsDifferent views of love: Nicole and Rosemary
Similarities in Dick's pursual of Nicole and Rosemary
Misguided Ambiguity: loose threads/crazy structure
French People vs.American People
Outside influences on Nicole and Rosemary
Threadline: Similarities in Dick's pursual of Nicole and Rosemary."He was remembering too vividly the youth and freshness of her lips" (56).
..."remembering that nothing had ever felt so young as her lips..." (133).
The first similarity happens when Dick kisses these girls for the first time. He never fails to mention the youth and innocence he feels in both of them. Its almost like thats what he's attracted to, he loves the thought of stripping these girls of their innocence. He's at first thrown off by the innocence of Rosemary's kiss but only because it reminded him of Nicole's kiss. Soon, he remembers that he loved the youthfulness of Rosemary. He might even miss the youthful part of Nicole and he searches for it in Rosemary.
"...I fell in love with you the first time I saw you" (33).
"Well, I think love is all there is or should be" (104).
The second thread is the way the women both love Dick Diver. Both of these girls seem to be instantly overcome by the presence of Dick Diver. Nicole met him once in the hospital before he went to war and she began writing him constantly. Rosemary meets him on the beach once and decides that she's in love with him. There's an air about Dick Diver that overcomes these girls at a young age. Nicole is around 17 or 18 when she meets him just like Rosemary is. It has not been fully explained why Dick Diver is so desirable but he pursues the girls when he is aware of their deep affections for them.
"Do you mind if I pull down the curtain?" (86)
"I'm half in love with her- the question of marrying her has half passed through my mind" (120).
The third similarity is the game that Dick plays with himself and with both of the girls he enchants. Dick toys with the 'I love you,' 'I don't love you' game. He flip flops around and refuses to make up his mind. With Rosemary, he claims that he loves her after deliberating and fiddling with her heart. Soon enough he becomes jealous and bitter to the idea of Rosemary with another man which explains the repetition of "Do you mind if I pull down the curtain?" He convinces himself that his jealousy represents his love for Rosemary. With Nicole, he's concerned if it is morally right to love a patient. He fiddles around with Nicole's emotions until he realizes that he can't resist her youth. He plays this game with both of these girls. It hasn't been explained fully but perhaps Dick gets some sick satisfaction out of playing games. What does he gain from playing the games? It it simply to keep his life interesting? Is he easily bored with his wealth and seemingly charming lifestyle. Perhaps playing games and soaking up the youth around him gives him a rush or makes him feel alive. Perhaps, Fitzgerald is not done with explaining Dick Diver's personal madness.
---Different Views of Love---"I fell in love on the beach, " said Rosemary. (12)
"Well, I think love is all there is or should be." (123) [Nicole]
"When you're older you'll know what people who love suffer." (41) [Campion]
"This was a love battle...high explosive love." (57) [Dick]
Many different characters have referenced love in this story with different meanings and connotations. Rosemary's professions of love for Dick are quick, childish, and almost casual feeling. She is able to announce that she loves him so quickly and with such fervor, that it seems untrue. She has never experienced true love, and so right when she finds a man worthy of admiration and finds an attraction for him, she automatically calls it love. Since she fell in love so quickly, it seems logical that she could fall out of love just as quickly--typical of her flighty personality. However, thus far she has attempted to overcome every obstacle in order to reach Dick--his initial parental attitude, their difference in age, and even marriage!
Nicole, similarly, falls in love with Dick very quickly. She is young and naive, just like Rosemary. However, her view of love already seems more serious and deeper than Rosemary's based on her letters to Dick. Love for her is all-consuming. Her broken past with her father and their relationship has deeply scarred and damaged her, and so flighty love seems out of the question. Unlike Rosemary, who is looking for an innocent first love, Nicole has already advanced, forcibly, into maturity. Her love of Dick is a search for a savior, someone who she can trust after her father fails her. Her love will not be flighty, because she has already experienced a love like that, one that was unsafe and destructive. She is looking for a pure, deep, real love.
There seems to be continual foreshadowing of the image of love closely intertwined with pain and suffering. The love/battlefield image that Dick brings up is very similar to the way O'Brien puts war and love on the same level in "In the Lake of the Woods." I think this points to the love warring within Dick. His deep and enduring love with Nicole, surrounded by darkness and secrecy, contrasts greatly with his new, fresh, innocent love for Rosemary, surrounded by newness and simplicity. Love is in fact a battlefield, and not all will leave unscathed. As we are starting to see, love is not simple, or straightforward; it is filled with twists and turns, with choices and decisions, with joy and pain. As seen with Nicole and her father, terrible things can happen as a cause of love. The love triangle b/n Dick, Nicole, and Rosemary will eventually come to a head, and someone-or maybe all-will be wounded deeply as a result.
Misguided Ambiguity:"But remembering the voice above, she restrained herself" (42) "Rosemary stood breathless as the voices moved away" (54).
Rosemary several times said she heard voices, similiar to that of a schizophrenic. Nicole has been revealed as one but not Rosemary. Rosemary stops hearing voices towards the end of book one. Why did she stop? Is Fitzgerald trying to relate the two? All the reader has is questions.
"Rosemary assured the image of her mother, even carried with her mother, that never, never has she known any one so nice" (77). "Rosemary had never done much thinking, save about the illimitability of her mother's perfection" (40)
Since the beginning, Rosemary's mother has had an influence on Rosemary. She isn't overbearing, but she seems so calculated. Why is Rosemary so obsessed with her mother? She always describes her as "perfect" but the reader doesn't understand how. Might there be a reason? Unfortunately, the audience does not know. Where is the mother? She just dissapeared like most of the characters.
"The young woman to whom Nicole had spoken made an odd dodging little run away from the man to whom she was talking and plunged a frantic hand into her purse; then the sound of two revolvers shots cracked the narrow air" (83).
This last quote deals with the ambiguity of the plot. What was the point of having this incident? The only thing intriguing about it is that Nicole spoke to her. Unfortunately, the audience never knows what the exchange was about nor does Rosemary ever try to ask. This whole event seems to just leave the reader confused as to why it was relevant. The readers learns the identity of the shooter, but not the motive. Without a motive, there's nothing to go on.
French/American "flatness.. comes over American travelers in quiet foreign places" (13).
"Dick said no American men have any repose, except himself" (51).
"enormous flux of American life... they were all happy to exist in a man's world" (53).
"She was pale as pale now, she was a white carnation left after a dance" (64).
Fitzgerald talks about the Americans in a very degrading sense, and that they are just apart of the war generation. He makes them sound like they are very uncontrolled and that the women are just living for the men. However, he contradicts this with that Rosemary and the Divers are Americans. Also, he describes the French as pale, and boring, and he even makes them seem robotic in the way that they act and talk, and they represent the post-war generation. Dick thinks he is the only American with repose is because he has become plain and dull from living with the French. This is what is happening to Rosemary. She is already starting to feel that her actions are becoming "tired" and that what she says has no meaning, that is is "merely and intention" (Fitzgerald 61). Before Rosemary started becoming like the French, she still had a sense of innocence and was very dependent on the mother. She also had a great desire to become a famous movie star. Now that she is living among these pale robotic french people, she is starting to lose motive and just act without any real intention. Fitzgerald contradicts himself because he degrades both the French and the American, and sometimes he exults one over the other and vice versa. Fitzgerald is obviously trying to exploit a conflict between the two, and maybe Fitzgerald does not intend to select one to be better than the other, but he makes no definite opinion about either and the reader is left confused about the author's tone toward the French versus the Americans. The question left to the reader is which side is Rosemary better off on?
Youth and Decay“Now there was this scarcely saved waif of disaster bringing him the essence of a continent...” (136)
"It was hard to think of deliberately cutting life down to the scale of an inherited suit" (133)
"When she saw him face to face their eyes met and brushed like bird's wings...She knew he was beginning to fall in love with her" (175)
"When I see a beautiful shell like that I can't help feeling a regret about what's inside it" (288)
Dick has an obsession with new things and the younger generation (Rosemary, Nicole). His obsession correlates to his own youth, a clear period of happiness for him (his beginning marriage to Nicole, the achievement of an upper societal life). This is why Dick gravitates towards Rosemary. His attraction to increasingly younger females correlates to his decaying morality and his own aging. Youth appears to be the one keepsake of happier times that Dick can hold onto through Rosemary. Will Dick's relationship with Rosemary destroy his prior happiness with Nicole? Will his quest to stay young and free ironically turn into his demise and destruction? I think, through this theme, Fitzgerald depicts the pursuit of such transient values such as youth and beauty can ultimately lead to one's personal downfall.
1.) Fitzgerald uses fragmented structure to try and make the reader unsure about who these characters really were and what they were hiding. I think that Fitzgerald alters the reader's view of Dick and Nicole's characters the most to show that they are scattered and broken. I think both Dick and Nicole have distorted intentions behind their actions and they both live in their own world acting independently instead of together as a couple. Dick sees a situations far different than Nicole does, therefore they react differently and the situation plays out how they imagine it in their own little world in their head. The fragmented structure, I believe, is a mix of the character's different views on the events and hints about the character's individual opinions towards them. I also believe it is to show the reader how Nicole's mind works, because she is not all mentally there, but maybe Dick isn't either. 2.) Dick Diver is compared to a cat because cats are sly and manipulative. Dick is trying to trick Rosemary into thinking she is in love with him. He makes her chase him and only shows turns his affection for her on and off making her always question his feelings towards her. Cats are very independent, representing how detached he is from Nicole. He is his own person, and Nicole and he are not bound together like a healthy married couple should be. Dick is also described as a white cat, which I believe parallels to how he is pale and lifeless, like the French people. He is a drone who acts upon himself not thinking that he may affect someone else's path (Rosemary's).
3.) It is important that Rosemary and Dick were about the same age when Dick pursued them. This shows that Dick preys on vulnerability, and girls are the most vulnerable at a young age just starting out their lives. Dick treated Nicole very similar to how he treats Rosemary. He is never clear about his feelings toward either. However, Dick actually makes a commitment to Nicole, and he has not with Rosemary. Another different is that Nicole must have been a lot harder to pursue because of her unstable emotional baggage. He may just feel like Rosemary is an easy target, and if he got Nicole then he can surely get Rosemary.
4). Dick's dinner with Franz scared him and altered his view of life. After the dinner, Dick became obsessed with living what he thinks is a vibrant and outrageous life. Dick is so paranoid about becoming like everyone else, that he bulldozes over everyone not thinking about the collateral damage. He throws these parties to somehow prove how fun and crazy he is, and he cheats on his wife with a young girl not thinking about the feelings of either. Also I think that the reason he goes for Rosemary is because it makes him feel youthful again, and he does not want to become old and depressed with no accomplishments to brag about.
~Thread: outside influences on Nicole and Rosemary~The actions of both Rosemary and Nicole may seem unusual or even unacceptable. You don't see many characters with obvious mental illness, or characters who unashamedly fall in love with someone who is married. Both of these characters had outside influence from others who changed them.
Nicole and Rosemary were both influenced by a parent. Nicole was influenced by her father: "...unless they will let me write about my father, whom I loved dearly." ... "so today I have written my father to come and take me away." Similarly, Rosemary's mother had a huge impact in her life: "her mother always had a great influence on her." ... "I don't love anybody but you, Mother, darling." Most impoetantky, Nicole's husband Dick Diver was a strong influence on both women. By chance, or under his control, they both fell madly in love with him.
It may be a coincidence, but the strongest influences on the girls - Nicole's father, Rosemary's mother, and Dick - are the worst. Nicole's father abused her and caused her mental health to be poor. Nicole's mother pushed her into her acting career and encouraged her to pursue Dick.
The girls' lack of positive parental influence may have been the variable that caused them both to be drawn to Dick's authoritative, manipulative personality.
The Magician: Behind the Facade Charm, wealth, and handsome, these are a few words that describe Dick Diver. However, behind this facade lies the truth, the magician hidden within. Dick Diver is continuously able to control the persona he is given. In the beginning the readers find out the connection between the Divers and the france. Dick and Nicole were asked if they liked the hotel however, they “have to like it” why? because they “invented it.” With this, Dick owns the beach and everyone staying at the hotel including Rosemary, this creates a sense of control and power, he has a leg up on everyone around him, like a good magician, always knowing what is going on around him. Always pulling the strings. Dick wants to create an environment where he can stand back and watch a masterpiece unfold a masterpiece of “brawls and seductions and people going home with their feelings hurt.” The magician wants to put up a facade in order to keep everything under control and to hide what is really going on inside. however, what is a good magician without his assistant? Nicole Diver acts as the perfect magicians assistant. She also acts a main source of power for Dick Diver. Sounds familiar? Dick Diver seeks control and power he knows exactly how to do it. He considers everyone’s happiness “his preoccupation” Dick wants to maneuver his way into people’s lives and like any good doctor or magician find the broken weak spots. Find the spots that he can use to his advantage; however, when he feels that they are not completely enthralled and not totally tricked he “evaporated before their eyes.” If someone is not fully devoted to Dick, if there is a sliver of independence the magician vanishes because he knows he cannot control them any longer. Which is why he was so enthralled with Nicole. Nicole was broken and damaged due to her past. The magician blinded by the way she responded and they control she gave him was completely taken with her. But was he taken with the woman or the was he taken with the thought of controlling her? Dick Diver “used to think he wanted to be good, he wanted to be kind, he wanted to be brave and wise. it was all pretty difficult.” Dick realizes he does not want his life to be normal so in an attempt to create a different life he becomes this illusionist a magician of the mind. He creates a facade of power and control by surrounding himself with objects and people that live for this life. Dick married a women he knew he could control, Dick is in a profession where he helps broken people. The mind magician is in his element and loves the tricks of control. Until his world is turned upside down by a single human. Then the cycle repeats. or are the roles reversed?
Casey's moderator day1) Fitzgerald's fractured writing may not be everyone's favorite. Some writers can pull off this kind of narration really well, and can implement strategies to make the story clear while still being mysterious and secretive. Fitzgerald's writing draws the reader more into the characters' lives, as some of the characters are just as clueless as the reader. The reader gets to see some characters, like Dick, through the eyes of other characters, like Rosemary, so the author can skew the reader's perceptions of said characters. However, the plot line gets confusing.
2) Countless characters in other stories have been depicted as "catlike" when they are cunning or sly or even sexual. Dick is skilled in manipulating others' opinions and affections of him. He throws parties to get on peoples' good sides and keeps in contact with Rosemary to encourage her to fall in love with him.
3) It may be just a coincidence, but Nicole's and Rosemary's ages may have been the same when they came in contact with Dick because he felt attracted to that specific age. Not in a sexual way per se, but maybe he felt responsibility to take control of someone at that young age. Nicole and Rosemary were both incredibly impressionable at that age.
4) I think Dick is trying to say that he just wants to be anything but boring. That's his worst fear. I think if he wasn't obsessed with being interesting and exciting, he wouldn't be attracted to Nicole or Rosemary. His first impression of Nicole was "insane girl," and that's what attracted him to her. He didn't see her personality first. Similarly, he first saw Rosemary as a young, underaged girl who had a crush on him. He didn't see her as a respectable woman. He didn't want to find a normal wife and have normal kids and live in a normal house. He didn't want that "inherited," sort of cookie-cutter life.
moderator day1. You don't see many stories where a relationship between an underaged girl and a married father is romanticized. Do you think Fitzgerald is trying to make a statement with his depiction of Rosemary and Dick's relationship?
2. "He was enough older than Nicole to take pleasure in her youthful vanities and delights" (Book II, Chapter VI). Does Dick feel the same way about Rosemary? Is this a coincidence, or do you think that this is the kind of girl Dick is just generally attracted to?
3. Dick describes Nicole as "a creature whose life did not promise to be only a projection of youth upon a grayer screen, but instead, a true growing; the face would be handsome in middle life; it would be handsome in old age: the essential structure and the economy were there" (Book II, Chapter VII). Does this have anything to do with Dick's contempt for the thought of growing old? Is this why he's attracted to young Nicole and Rosemary?
4. When Dick is looking at Nicole and thinking about how she'll be pretty when she's old, she asks what he's thinking: "'I was just thinking that you're going to be rather happy.' Nicole was frightened: 'Am I? All right - things couldn't be worse than they have been'" (Book II, Chapter VII). Is Nicole scared of being happy or just scared that it won't last? What does Dick add to or take away from the happiness of her life?
Artifact: idk i thought this was funny http://djdannyhill.com/wp-content/upl...
Switching the SorceryDick had a highly similar pursual of both Rosemary and Nicole. Fitzgerald personifies Dick Diver as the person in control or the puppet master of the novel. However; once Fitzgerald started digging into the past, Nicole slowly gains control of the situation.
"...she was relieved and almost happy that he was hers again" (142).
This first quote automatically tells the reader that Nicole knew about Rosemary and Dick. She taunts Dick with the fact that Rosemary was "very attractive" and "quite smart" (143). The scene the train when they both banter back and forth about Rosemary almost seems like a power struggle. Both say what the other is thinking in order to see who's going to snap first. Dick knows that he's going to have to conceal his love for Rosemary from Nicole even though he knows that she knows. Nicole is going to hold it over his head without even mentioning it. She sees the weakness in his love for Nicole and becomes the magician.
..."Nicole, wanting to own him, wanting him to stand still forever..." (145).
Fitzgerald begins to point out how Nicole's family kind of owns Dick because of money. It represents a more pyhsical way and literal way that Nicole rules over Dick. It mentions how the hotel and the Paris vacation was under Nicole's name. Also, Dick can afford to not work because of Nicole's trust fund. Fitz mentions how Dick was "constantly inundated by a trickling of goods and money"(145). The idea of money raises Nicole's confidence of keeping Dick. She controls his money and she assisted in Rosemary leaving France. The power has clearly shifted.
"'I can only help you in the same old way'...'You can help yourself most...' " (163).
This is Dick noticing the power shift between him and Nicole. He knows that she knew about Rosemary, he knows that she controls the money for their family and now in the midst of one of her breakdowns he realizes she probably has control of those as well. He tells her that she can take care of herself because she is acting out for his attention, so she can feel like she owns him more. In Paris after Dick and Rosemary are kissing, Peterson is found dead and Rosemary finds the perfect opportunity to have a break down. This break down brings Dick back to her and gets rid of Rosemary. During this breakdown, Dick has just been accused of kissing a patient. She thinks that breaking down will bring him under her wing again but he picks up on her sorcery and tells her to take care of herself. There is a slightly blurry line of when these break downs started becoming performances.
Dick has pursued both of these girls and now he's dealing with the absence of one and the control of the other. He pretty much brings this on himself and looses his control over the situation in the end. This thread of Dick's pursual has transformed into how it is effecting both his life and the lives of the women he loves.
Thread: Outside influences on Nicole and RosemaryIt has been established that Nicole and Rosemary were both influenced by their parents - Nicole by her father, and Rosemary by her mother. They are both highly influenced by Dick Diver, which is confusing for both of them and for the reader. As the plot progresses, it becomes more and more obvious that Nicole and Rosemary are being highly influenced by each other. Both women's actions, emotions, and descisioins are impacted by the other.
Rosemary began to feel threatened by Nicole right from the beginning. As she begins to get to know the Divers better, she becomes more and more intimidated and in awe of Nicole. She is mainly afraid at first: "Rosemary thought she would not like to have Nicole as an enemy" (Book I, Chapter IV). However, she begins to like Nicole as a person. They almost become unlikely friends. She is incredibly envious of her: "she admired Nicole for her beauty and her wisdom, and also for the first time in her life she was jealous" (Book II, Chapter XVI). Her jealousy of Nicole causes her to lust after Dick even more, rather than discouraging her.
Nicole, surprisingly, is equally jealous of Rosemary. Dick hopes to God that she wouldn't find out about his relationship with the girl, but she surely knows. Her envy is obvious on the train with her husband, having a conversation about Rosemary. She tries to coax him to admitting his love for her by saying things like "I can see how she'd be very attractive to men" (Book II, Chapter XI). Nicole also grows nostalgic for her long-lost happy marriage after Rosemary came along. This can be seen in the train when she finds herself "watching him, and though she still was half asleep from the hangover of the drug, she was relieved and almost happy that he was hers again" (Book II, Chapter XI).
Nicole and Rosemary are quite obviously highly influenced by each other. Unfortunately, this theme of two women at each others' throats over a man is very popular, not only in literature, but in movies and tv shows as well. Which is just one more thing that Fitzgerald uses in his writing in this book that makes me hate reading it.
----Different Views of Love pt. 2----"I've got him, he's mine." (155)
"Ah but I love the most and I can tell when you're away from me, even a little." (159)
"She was releived and almost happy that he was hers again." (166)
"Nicole, wanting to own him, wanting him to stand still forever, encouraged any slackness on his part." (170)
"Nicole's face flowed into his love, ever braced to protect it." (176)
Since Rosemary has stepped out for a little bit, these past few chapters have focused mainly on Nicole and we have gotten to know her much better--and to see another level of her relationship with Dick. What seemed earlier like a young smitten girl with daddy issues looking for a man to save her from her lonely life of insanity has taken a darker turn. Nicole definitely has a possessiveness and control over Dick. Even from their very first kiss, she thinks "he's mine" (155). This carries over into the rest of their marriage, and she can feel that she is way more attached to Dick than he is to her. When Rosemary is around, she feels him pulling away from her, and only when Rosemary is out of the picture does she feel that her control and ownership over Dick has returned.
Nicole has many different levels of control over Dick. Her illness keeps him tied to her, because he is one of the few who knows about it and he feels a responsibility towards her. She also can control him with her money, since she is the main breadwinner of the two due to her hefty inheritance. His dependence on her money gives her more and more control over him. However, Nicole isn't controlling in an obvious way, but the subtle looks and passive aggressive words reveal a lot. In the train scene when she and Dick tensely talk back-and-forth about Rosemary, the underlying tension is clearly there. Nicole wants Dick to slip up, borrow too much money, admit infidelity, anything that she can use to hold over him and keep him locked away, only hers forever. Without Dick, I think she would quickly slip back into her dark insanity, and I think she realizes this too. Therefore, despite her suspicions of Dick, she will play the part of naive wife to keep him tense and under her control.
The Nightingale "The girl was the prettiest thing I ever saw... When I see a beautiful shell like that I can't help feeling regret about what's inside it" (120).
"Here I am in what appears to be a semi-insane asylum... Those who should have, not see fit to enlighten me" (123).
"We've made rather a pet of her around here" (131).
"Dick wished she had no background, that she was just a girl lost with no address save the night from which she had come" (135).
"Franz considered it rash business" (137).
Dick is completely awed with Nicole. The was he is he can't help but dive into the mystery of Nicole. She says that she is in a "semi-insane asylum." This is interesting because I believe that Nicole knows what she is doing. Dick may think that he manipulated her (and Rosemary) into chasing after him, but I believe that Nicole has Dick wrapped around her finger. Nicole is "crazy" because she is one of the night. During the day she is stunted by people and social restrictions and people make a "pet" of her. Franz is an example because he just sees her as a patient and gives her off to Dick. Dick wants to be the best psychologist in the world, and Franz sees this as incompetent and says that this is only something an American would dream of. Maybe this is commentary about the French that they are too executive and straight-jacketed. The Americans have outlandish dreams and are not interested by social constraints, and the French are skeptical of this.
Misguided Ambiguity (Part 2)"In December, Nicole seemed well-knit again" (171)
The reader has been on a rollercoaster ride of Nicole's sanity, yet the narrator hasn't clarified why she is better. The theory that she is faking it has surfaced recently, might this have been Fitzgerald's plan all along? Only suppling the reader with miniscul information of her current state of mind to completely rip the rug from right under the audience and reveal that she has been faking it the whole time. Unfortunately, this theory probably will not be fully clear until the end.
"It was a dangerous subject-- he was careful, to the point of self-consciousness, to stare far over the heads of young maidens" (172)
The reader has seen on several occasions of Dick's womanizing charm on Rosemary and Nicole, yet FItzgerald has not fully clarified why them. Is he wanting to fix them? A doctor devoting his life to cure sick women seems too heroic for Dick. His taste primarily consists of younger women. Is Fitzgerald commenting on himself or just men of the 20s? The reader only has question when it comes to Dick's love life.
"That was talk, but Nicole had a better hold on him now and she held it" (155)
The narrator had played with the idea of the puppeteer using the strings to control everyone. The power has been going back and forth between Dick and Nicole. The question is why? The only motive for Nicole would be for Dick to stay with him, but it isn't clear to the reader why she does not want to lose him. It does not seem like they're is love between them. The questions remains as to who is controling who and why. Unfortunately the narrator is throwing the reader off on the subject.
The Magician: the switch Going on further into the story, with Dick’s growing feelings for Rosemary she begins to act as a distraction for Dick creating the perfect opportunity for the new magician to emerge. Nicole Diver has been somewhat of a supporting role throughout the novel, however, when her relationship with Dick is threatened she takes the reigns. During the revelation of the dead man in Rosemary’s bed, Dick instantly went into action carrying the dead man out and leaving him in the hallway and handing the blood stained coverlet to nicole, as she exchanged it for her clean coverlet. When Dick barged in to see Nicole she was hysterical claiming “It’s you! come to intrude on the only privacy I have in the world--with your spread with red blood on it. I’ll wear it for you-- I’m not ashamed though it was such a pity” (112). Here Nicole’s world has shifted, she realizes she is doing her husbands dirty work to protect his side project. Dick puts Nicole at risk taking away any from Rosemary creating Nicole’s hysterical reaction. This was the trigger, Dick then packed up their things and they left on a train. Nicole was content knowing “he was her’s again” (166). This was the magicians trick. Throughout the rest of the novel the readers come to see the complete role reversal where at one moment Nicole was infatuated with Dick and would do anything for him, now Dick is forced to hide away knowing “before her he must keep a perfect front” (166). Dick is trapped he can cannot even “play what he wanted to play on the piano” (171). Nicole is the source of money in this relationship, this is why Dick is so trapped because he knows he will have nothing and no where to go without her. The only thing he owns is the “workhouse and the grounds on which it stood” (170). Because of her, Dick’s life has been “refined down to a point” (171). The magician is cunning and through her illness she gets Dick to do what she wants. She creates scenes in public when Dick shows any sign of wavering away from her. Dick asks her why she loses “control over yourself like that” (189), but the magician drops her act for a moment, “you know very well why” (189) as if to taunt every wrong Dick has done in his face. When Dick is able to escape and take a leave of absence from work and home on the plane a “vast persuasive quiet stole over him” (194) as if once Nicole is out of reach he can breath again. Dick does not understand how the power was shifted, but he does know it has, or has it been the magicians big trick all along of deceiving poor Dick in believing he held the reins, when in reality he was a puppet and the real magician was pulling the strings.
The Nightingale (part 2) "She felt: There, that'll show him, how conceited; how he could do with me; oh wasn't it wonderful! I've got him, he's mine. Now in the sequence came flight, but it was all so sweet and new that she dawdled wanting to draw all of it in" (155)
"But she was still afraid of Dick, who stood near her, leaning, characteristically, against the iron fence that rimmed the horseshoe" (155).
"Then the storm came swiftly, first falling from the heavens, then doubly falling in torrents from the mountains and washing loud down the roads and stone ditches; with it came a dark, frightening sky and savage filaments of lightning and the world splitting thunder... chaos and darkness" (155-156).
"Women are necessarily capable of almost anything in their struggle for survival and can scarcely be convicted of such manmade crimes as "cruelty" (163).
"In the early morning he broke in upon her confusion before it could form, with words of tenderness and protection, and she slept again with his face against the warm scent of her hair" (166).
"He drank a whole bottle of wine save for Nicole's single glass" (167)
"Naturally Nicole wanting to own him, wanting to stand still forever, encourage any slackness on him part" (170)
"For a moment he felt that they were in a ship with landfall just ahead; in the faces of all the girls was the same innocent expectation of the possibilities inherent in the situation and the night" (174).
"There was a conventional yodeling, and the familiar rhythm of it separated Dick from what he had first found romantic in the scene" (177)
In the first half of the book Nicole is characterized as very timid and it seems that Dick is in charge. Fitzgerald in now just starting to hint at the fact that Nicole might actually be the one in charge. Dick's emotions are all over the place and Nicole almost controls him with pity. She makes him want to take care of her and reals him in to the mystery of herself like the Nightingale. Nicole is still afraid of Dick because he is on the verge of snapping out of her trance. Rosemary is a distraction and Nicole senses this. In the quote about the storm, Fitzgerald parallels it to Nicole. When Dick first sees her, he describes her as an angel, now she brings so much chaos to their relationship, but Dick is in too deep. Nicole knows her beauty and the effect she has on people, and she is manipulating everyone around her to survive. The yodeling in the last quote represents Rosemary as the distraction that pulls Dick away from Nicole.
Misguided Ambiguity:1) "Rosemary took a cocktail and a little wine, and Dick too enough so that his feeling of dissatisfaction left him. She wanted to be taken and she was, and what had begun with a childish infatuation on a beach was accomplish at last" (213)
Fitzgerald is so vague with his description of everything that I continually have to read it over. This is a prime example of it. Dick through this quote seems hesitant to be with Rosemary, yet he sleeps with her. A part of me believes that he desires to be Rosemary but I don't what is holding him back. His marriage with Nicole sounds so miserable, so I don't understand why he does not leave her. I read this section over and over because 1) It is not fully clear that they slept together and 2) if they were to sleep together, why wouldn't Fitzgerald make it more monumental. The whole first act is about Rosemary's perusal of Dick and then in the second act, it's more of Dick doing it. Wouldn't the narrator make them sleeping together more profound?
2) "Why could we just have the memory any how? I feel as if I'd quarreled with Mother" (219)
This I found extremely interesting. The context of her saying this is when she and Dick are fighting because Dick is jealous of Nicotera. The entire novel, Rosemary has gone leaps and bounds expressing her admiration for Mother and yet, through this quote, the reader learns that their relationship is not perfect. This was extremely confusing because Fitzgerald put no focus on this. He just zooms through this and never goes back to it. Maybe if we had gotten even a scene of Rosemary and her Mother fighting, then maybe this quote would make sense.
3) "Then he tried to think of Rosemary" (207)
I have no understanding of where Dick's sudden passion for Rosemary comes from. It seems that in this latest reading that he has an overwhelming admiration. He imagines that she "had had lovers and had loved them for the last four years" (207). This is extremely confusing to me because Rosemary has been rarely mentioned in book two. If Fitzgerald were to add clarity as to why Dick likes her, then I could understand. So far, we have only learned that Dick likes to fix people especially Nicole; however, Rosemary doesn't need any fixing. Actually, Rosemary seems better without Dick being in her life. She's more leveled.
---Different Views of Love pt. 3---(Chapters 20-23)
"Nicole was his girl...time with Rosemary was self-indulgence" (214).
"Dick's discovery that he was not in love with her, nor she with him, had added rather than diminished his passion for her" (216).
"He supposed many men meant no more than that when they said they were in love--not a wild submergence of soul, a dipping of all colors into an obscuring dye, such as his love for Nicole has been" (217).
"Dick, I love you, never like anybody like you. But what have you got for me?" (218)
"He was not going to be in love with her again" (219)
These chapters highlight the conflict between Dick's love for Nicole and his love for Rosemary, and also bring up the stark differences in these relationships. When Rosemary suddenly comes back into Dick's life, he is overjoyed, but after they sleep together, it seems like he begins to quickly detach himself emotionally. This climax of their love story only confirms his definite love for Nicole. This detachment increases his passion for Rosemary, but begins to wear on their relationship because she is much more emotionally invested than he is. Dick seems to be able to choose whether he loves Rosemary or not, but with Nicole he is helpless. His love for her was a "submergence of soul", and overwhelming and all-consuming emotion, while Rosemary's was probably much more about conquest and power because of her youth and beauty. Also, Rosemary is not fully consumed with her "love" for Dick because she still keeps men on the side. Their mutual inability to fully commit to each other is what inevitably drives them apart. Nicole, however, is still fully dependent on Dick to keep her sane and happy, and her need for him strengthens his love for her. Nicole and Dick seems to have a powerful, almost chemical bond, despite the numerous odds stacked against them. Even though a relationship with Rosemary might be easier, it cannot work because of Nicole's powerful hold on Dick.
Muddy Love: A loss of control"He and Nicole looked at each other directly, their eyes like blazing windows across a court of the same house"(164).
"She wanted to be taken as she was, and what had begun with a childish infatuation on a beach was accomplished at last" (181).
" 'If I didn't love Nicole it might be different.' 'But do you love Nicole?' she demanded in alarm" (183).
..."if he had to bring all the bitterness and hatred of the world into his heart, he was not going to be in love with her again." (186).
" 'I don't seem to bring people happiness anymore' " (187).
In all of these quotes Dick is almost lost the web that he weaved because of his perusal of Nicole and Rosemary. The two separate perusals have almost collided and shifted. Dick finds himself at a loss for control. He's caught between the love he once had for Nicole and the lust and desire he craves in Rosemary. He can't find the exact spot "between the time he found Nicole flowering under a stone on the Zurichsee and the moment of his meeting with Rosemary the spear had been blunted" (171). Both of the perusals have been splashed in the mud and merged together which creates a split personality within himself. He cannot pinpoint the place where he lost the control. There is a definite power struggle with him and Nicole and he knows how much Nicole's family has used him but he dilutes himself with the idea that he still has her under his grasp. In many ways, Dick does have Nicole in his grasp but he doesn't realize her grasp is tighter. During his perusal of Nicole, he had a game plan but so did she. It was in the bigger picture and years after they've been married is when he realizes how strong her grasp is. During his perusal of Rosemary, he had all the control, all the power and she needed him. When he sees her again, she's grown up but she doesn't need him and it shakes him up. Both of the women he desires have turned on him and it puts him into a mental state almost. All of the time he wanted control of the relationship and the perusal. Perhaps he 's becoming one of the patients he tried so hard to cure.
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Casey- November 14
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