UB Libraries Book Group discussion

This is the spoiler thread. Anything goes here. This book brings up many issues, questions, and opinions. Feel free to discuss your own views (respectively of course), and experiences. (Non-traditional students, homeschooling, attitudes about education, history, religion, abuse, "facts" in memoirs, history, etc. )

SPOILER ALERT: Potential spoilers ahead. If you don't want to know about the ending yet, don't read this thread. Go back to the no-spoiler thread.

Target date range = November 15 - 20. Feel free to start early, and check back to read new posts. This is a busy time of the year, so some of us might still want to comment through the end of the month.

If you're finished reading, jump right in! Ellen mentioned her irl book club had a spirited discussion about it. Has anyone read this with a group?

I found this book interesting and harrowing; there were several points where I had difficulty reading how Tara would again try to reconnect with her abusive family and it started to wear on me. The only thing that kept me going was knowing she obviously survived and got out and wrote this book.

I feel like this book was less about an ultra-conservative family from within a conservative religion and more about the mental illness of the father and brother and the abuse they unleashed on those around them. So difficult to read how Tara would change her narrative or feel like she was the unbalanced one as her mother and siblings would toe the line and enable the abusive behavior. I suppose the sympathetic view would attribute the Mother’s actions as self-preservation after what I am sure was a repressive/oppressive life but still seems so cruel to stand by while your childrens lives are literally at stake. And beyond frustrating to watch them all blame the victim and call for proof of the abuse Shawn levied on Tara even though they had witnessed his murderous rages at different times. And stabbing that dog to death? Good God.

And some separate comments on the religious aspect:
I have a bias against Mormonism largely because of the polygamy and always blaming the women for men’s desires. Also, it just seems like a crazy deviation from Christianity just so Joseph Smith, Brigham Young etc. could have tens of wives (though I imagine Christianity seemed bizarre to the Jewish people when it first arose). I know this family went way beyond the typical Mormons in their paranoias and anti-woman tirades and beliefs but all of the focus on female purity and the father lecturing on girls “Not to be too inviting” makes me want to scream.

From the little I know about Mormonism, I don't see them as a typical Mormon family. I don't think any of them went out to do service, and fortunately here there was no polygamy. I think the religion does give the father much more authority over the family (and their souls) than other religions might here. (He shares some attitudes with fundamentalist Muslims.) I suppose the kids didn't talk back or question his authority because they didn't know that he's so different from other dads. The church supports the authority of the father, and they don't seem to socialize much with other families.

What do you think about Tara's suspicion that her father is bipolar? I didn't take it seriously at first because I remember (long ago) that when my Psych class earned about bipolar disorder, you could hear people whispering, "that sounds exactly like ___" - sometimes themselves. It made more sense when I thought about his grandiose ideas, his sense of urgency when working, and his almost total disregard for safety. He was almost catatonic some winters, and it sounded like clinical or at least seasonal depression.

I thought it was funny that he says women shouldn't work, yet he was the one pushing his wife to become a midwife, and grow her business. He also hated the idea of Tara showing herself in public, until he was able to share in the praise for her singing. I heard her sing on an interview, and she has a beautiful voice.

Thank goodness Tara had Tyler - to introduce her to beautiful music, to open up her world, and to help her get into college.

I want to clarify that my anti-Mormon feelings are really about the origins and the polygamy. I actually knew some Mormon families while living in Oregon and they had an awesome community of support for each other, especially in times of crisis. They definitely prioritized modesty, boys went on mission, most married very young, avoided alcohol/caffeine and all had great stores of food/supplies.

I think you are right, Nancy, that the original basis of the religion gave the father here unquestioned authority. I don't know about the bipolar diagnosis...but definitely had some sort of psychosis with his delusional views on reality.

And, yeah, his beliefs on women working certainly seemed flexible when it benefited him!

I had a very difficult time getting through this book when I read it about a year ago with my other book club. Mostly for the reasons that Kath has articulated so perfectly. But I think also the hype about it in the popular media made me expect something completely different than what I read.

I was expecting a book focused on how the author overcame her lack of education. I was not at all expecting this book, focused almost exclusively IMHO on physical and psychological abuse. I found it absolutely horrific.

It made me super curious about how it became so popular. Is it the whole watching a car wreck and you can't tear your eyes away thing? My other book club members said they admired the author's ability to overcome it all. But to be honest, it screamed to me that she is super emotionally scarred and all I could think was that I hope she is getting lots of help. And I had to question whether writing this book was a wise choice on her part or not. My reaction is definitely not.

I found the book to be more inspirational than traumatic, and it was powerful. I enjoyed the education and development aspects of the book most. I would have liked more on her graduate education, but others might not be as interested. It was interesting to see how she delved deeply into some topics, and one interest led to another, to another.

When she went to college, the culture clash seemed painful, even though BYU has mostly Mormon students. Tara was in a dress that covered her from neck to toe, meeting other girls in skimpy summer clothes. I imagined what I would feel like sitting in a class next to women and men in stripper costumes. I was happy to see that there were several people at the college who were willing to spend time to help her with practical issues, behavioral norms, and psychological issues to help her to succeed. It reminds me of the barriers that international students might have.

In one class, she was surprised to learn that she was supposed to actually read the textbook. Shockingly, I've had a few students in recent years who made the same mistake, and the textbook didn't have pictures.

Sorry for the late reply. I read it early then got caught up in the semester. I think it an appropriate book for this month. We can be grateful we did not experience this. At least I hope not. My biggest impression was I was surprised that people are still living like that. Denying their children education and access to all the knowledge and information the human race has accumulated. Must be the librarian or information professional in me. Differing religious beliefs. are fine as long as it does no harm. I have to agree, the dad was/is suffering from some mental health issue. I believe there is evidence of hostages developing sympathy or thinking their captors are right in their crazy ideas/behavior. I think it is a survival mechanism but certainly not healthy.
I was very glad to hear she got out of the situation and hopefully with time her family will too.

I recently listened to an episode of Heavyweight (episode is called "Rob") in which a man remembers breaking his arm as a child.

Total segue, but after your comment I went and listened to that episode and found that fascinating! So funny to listen to multiple family members create alternative reasons for why their memories are correct despite the initial evidence presented to them. Much smaller stakes to be sure but are they protecting themselves from the guilt they say they would feel if they had forgotten? Or similar to confirmation bias maybe?

I should look for that. This is one of my favorite topics. If a person pulls up a memory many times over the years, it will get stronger and easy to access. Even if it's been altered, rationalized, or mixed up with other memories over the years.

I think it's part of the human condition. I think confirmation bias is a part of it. Five people could witness an event, and you might have five different perceptions of exactly what happened. It could be due to biases, assumptions, or different experiences with the person or situation. If you expect the worst from people, you're more likely to see negative things, and you might even do subtle things to bring that out in them.

If you've observed a person lying or being abusive, you might judge a neutral behavior more negatively than someone else might see it. That might have been part of what was happening with Shawn in the book. If Shawn asked Tara to get him a Coke, she might refuse because she's seen that game before. Other people might think he's being reasonable and that she's acting crazy and rude. (I once worked with someone who played games to make people look bad and to pit her coworkers against one another. Harassers do this too.)

Confirmation bias had made the country divide even deeper. We pick the news sources and comedians that we think are usually "right" and they confirm our beliefs. Social media keeps us happy by screening out opinions we don't like. As a result, we always think our opinions are in line with the way the majority of people think. I was honestly very shocked to find that the majority of the people in my own town voted for a politician that I thought wouldn't stand a chance here. I don't know anyone who said they voted for him. (Perhaps I didn't give them a chance?)

We still have many politicians and citizens who deny that global warming is real, despite tons of evidence. I can't believe they're all stupid, but once something gets politicized rational thought seems to disappear. I could be wrong, but it seems like it started because politicians wanted to discredit rival politicians such as Al Gore. Or is it just because we all want/need energy and fossil fuels... therefore "oil is good" and anyone who threatens to take it away must be "bad." OK, that was a fun rant. Sorry for getting political.

Quick note on the next book. I read it for an American History challenge this month and I loved it. It's non-fiction but it reads more like a thriller. I think I read that there's a building at the CIA named after her. Now people will get to find out why.