Golden Age of Hollywood Book Club discussion

Not just a place to name all your favorites. Why is sound so vital to cinema? Discuss.

There are so many wonderful soundtracks in Golden Age film but I think my favorite is from the 1938 version of Robin Hood. Not only does the film have wonderful actors (Flynn, Rathbone, Rains, etc.) and vivid Technicolor but the strains of Erich Korngold's music is absolutely perfect. He won a well deserved Oscar for his score which is so uplifting and uses a strong string background. He and Bernard Hermann are probably the two strongest composers in film history IMO.

Although I read a lot of film books, I haven't yet found a good source to confirm my private theory which is that until pipe organs or orchestras accompanied the big screen with musical cues for scenes, no one 'jumped out of their skin' or 'leaped out of their seat' merely when watching completely silent media such as nickelodeons or one-reelers.

I think 100% silent imagery can at 'stimulate thought'; curiosity, cognition, puzzlement; at most perhaps some mild anticipation. It triggers our urge to 'make sense of patterns'. We lean forward in our seat, with something temporarily occupying our attention. But without audio, imagery alone won't strike our involuntary nervous-systems.

A series of images flickering against a passive backdrop --this is not too much different from other visual media which preceded cinema. Puppetry, stage plays, the 'phantasmogoria' in France, the Greek zoetrope, shadow plays, various other early formats. Even the photographic essays of Muybridge or Russian experiments in montage, were 'all very interesting' --but not riveting; never 'an enveloping experience'.

You can try it yourself anytime. Watch a film sequence with no audio and assess your excitement level. You're relaxed, no matter even how gruesome it might be. It's the addition of a music score which grabs you and holds you.

I can speak more about this in another post, but this aspect is very well-researched; (the way our hearing is more of a survival organ than our eyesight).

various soundtracks I've acquired for my humble audio library over the years:

• 'The Third Man' zither soundtrack by Anton Karas
• 'La Golandrina', etc soundtrack to 'The Wild Bunch'
• 'Burning Bridges' by Mike Post ('Kelly's Heroes')
• 'The Arabian Symphony' from 'Lawrence of Arabia'
• 'Anatomy of a Murder', Duke Ellington
• 'Badlands' (including Carl Orff)
• 'A Space Odyssey' (Strauss, Lygotti, etc)
• 'Red River' ('Red River Valley')
• 'Once Upon a Time in the West' (Sergio Leone)
• various theme songs of Lalo Schifrin ('DIrty Harry', etc)
• music from 'Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid'
• themes of Jerry Fielding ('Alien', 'Papillon', 'Magic', etc)
• 'The Taking of Pelham123' soundtrack by David Shire (Talia's hub)
• 'Almost in your Arms' by Sophia Loren ('Houseboat') and version #2 by Sam Cooke
• 'In the Heat of the Night', title track by Ray Charles
• 'Woodstock' - entire
• 'Gimmer Shelter' - entire
• 'The Last Waltz' - entire
• 'Touch of Evil' - 'that pianola sure brings back memories'

I also like instances where a song is sung by an actor in a movie, such as Loren does (above); or as Harry Dean Stanton in 'Cool Hand Luke' does. The song by the German prisoner at the end of 'Paths of Glory', another one.

Hermann is amazing as is Elmer Bernstein. But if I see the names Miklos Rozsa or Dmitri Tiompkin in the credits, I know that even if the film is awful, I will still be happy.

I also have Quincy's Heat of the Night soundtrack. And Bob Crewe's Barbarella soundtrack.

Elmer Bernstein's 'The Magnificent Seven' --mighty rousing piece of music. Given an homage in the opening scene of a French action-thriller, 'The Nest'. Although 'The Nest' is fun and 'modern' even it doesn't compare with the excitement of John Sturges' western.

Don't know who sang Rita and Kim's parts, but Sinatra is truly on his game singing Rodgers and Hart in Pal Joey. Rita can actually sing, but I think they got somebody else for vocals.

High Society and Can Can aren't quite as good musically. But Frank singing "You're Sensational" to Princess Grace and doing "Let's Do It" with Shirley are fantastic.

I should probably also mention Maple's Elevator to the Gallows with that sensational Miles soundtrack. And Sweet Smell of Success with Chico Hamilton and Elmer Bernstein.

"Malle's"

I'm not much a fan of musicals; though I appreciate what they can do for their fans and their audiences. Nothing wrong with spreadin' a little sunshine. I just have a low threshold for saccharine and schmaltz.

I've enjoyed:
'The Music Man' with Robert Preston
'Singing in the Rain'
'Three Little Words'
(usually any Fred Astaire romp, since he dances as well as sings)
'The Red Shoes'
the first 1/3 of 'West Side Story'
'The Singing Detective' (BBC)
'Pennies from Heaven' (BBC)
...and of course, 'The Blues Brothers'

As mentioned in comment #3, there are many things we can discuss about music being in movies, including favorite composers, but something I'd like to reiterate is how the composer uses the music to offer a clue to what's going on. First, there's the happy music which lulls you into thinking everything is all right and then wham! Or there's the the scary music or the music which shows a tense atmosphere--so many emotions in a few bars of music.

(Thanks for adding this thread so promptly.)

Head is my favorite film of all-time. (Yes, I was once a major acid-head).

I am also a big fan of Shall We Dance? A little less corny than most Fred and Ginger films and the Gershwins wrote some of their best tunes for it.

Spielberg-produced, Joe Dante directed, 'I Wanna Hold your Hand' --about the night the Beatles landed in NYC --is a lot of fun.

George Lucas' 'American Grafitti' too, of course.

'American Hot Wax' about the 'ole 'King of the Moondogs' (Alan Freed) is a bravura performance by Tim McIntire. Good coverage of the early crossover rock concerts.

One thing which used to be true about golden-era radio shows is that they all had their own individual orchestras. Jerry Fielding (who did so many famous films) came from the old Groucho Marx quiz show.

The arrival of TV coincided with improvements in record-able media which meant radio orchestras were dropped and every TV show began using 'industry libraries'. So they all began to sound the same, right down to the incidental music foreshadowing the next burst of gunfire pointed at Banacek, or Cannon, or McCloud, or Columbo.

That situation held sway for a long, long, time until (in the digital era we now inhabit) full-length feature movies employ the exact same method. Instead of each new film sounding unique, we now experience just what happened to TV shows. Every movie sounds precisely the same because it really is all just one 'highly efficient' library-of-sound they all pluck from.

Those 'whooshing wind' effects and those 'vault-door-slamming shut' effects, y' know? There's a gaggle of little sound companies which provide all this to the studios ('outsourced', as is every other facet of film-making today).

I can add links later for this if anyone cares to explore.

Everyone raves about what John Williams did for 'Jaws', 'CE3K', and 'Star Wars' but for my money what he did for 'Superman' with Chris Reeve beats them all. [It's the only superhero movie I admire anyway, but nevermind.]

The reason I think it's so great is that he went back to the theme music of the 1940s 'Superman' radio show for the new film's motif. Few people realize the link, but its so beautiful and clever, paying this little tribute.

Feliks wrote: "various soundtracks I've acquired for my humble audio library over the years:

• 'The Third Man' zither soundtrack by Anton Karas
• 'La Golandrina', etc soundtrack to 'The Wild Bunch'
• 'Burning Br..."

great list

Since I kind of started this thread by mentioning Elmer Bernstein, I would like to pay tribute to him for such films as 'Great Escape', 'The Hallelujah Trail', 'The Rough Riders', The Magnificent Seven' and many others. As someone who can barely carry a tune, I find it amazing that composers can come up with music that fits in so well with plot, dialogue and even scenery.

I do have other favorites, but when I think of movie composers, Elmer Bernstein is at the top of my list.

I've always liked:

What is a Youth, Nino Rota, Romeo and Juliet (1968)
Bridge on the River Kwai, soundtrack Malcom Arnold
Monterey Pop 1968, entire
Her Majesty's Secret Service, We Have All The Time In The World sung by Louis Armstrong.
They Died With Their Boots On, Garryowen
Mission Impossible, Theme from Mission Impossible Lalo Schrifin

Betsy wrote: "Since I kind of started this thread by mentioning Elmer Bernstein, I would like to pay tribute to him for such films as 'Great Escape', 'The Hallelujah Trail', 'The Rough Riders', The Magnificent S..."

The Man With the Golden Arm is one of the best second hand store finds I ever got. And just to repeat myself, Sweet Smell of Success is amazing. Both the Bernstein score and the Chico Hamilton small group. I would love to find that soundtrack on vinyl.

Feliks wrote: "Everyone raves about what John Williams did for 'Jaws', 'CE3K', and 'Star Wars' but for my money what he did for 'Superman' with Chris Reeve beats them all. [It's the only superhero movie I admire ..."

I listen to the "John Williams" station on my Alexa all the time. I agree that his Superman soundtrack is fantastic. Reeves will always be Superman to me.

These aren't very old, but I absolutely love the soundtracks to The Scarlet Letter, The Piano, Slingblade and Jurassic Park.

My favorite "old" soundtrack, or is it called a score, is Seven Samurai. The music that accompanied Shogun is among my favorite as well, probably because it somewhat resembles the music is SS.

Feliks wrote: "Although I read a lot of film books, I haven't yet found a good source to confirm my private theory which is that until pipe organs or orchestras accompanied the big screen with musical cues for sc..."

Good point, Feliks. By adding musical scores to restored silent films, the difference is amazing. So really, those silent films aren't' silent which I think makes for a better appreciation of the art. But oh, when they add the wrong music, it can be a disaster. Unrestored films without music can be rather hard to take sometimes.

From #19 - I noticed you mentioned 'Garryowen' which is a favorite of mine. When I visited the Little Bighorn battlefield, i also stopped at the post office in Garryowen, MT to get a postmark. The song is closely associated with the 7th Cavalry.

One of my local pubs routinely plays silent films against a bare wall for patrons to have something to look at. Thus, I've seen the effect I speak of, many times. A flickering image mitt out sound (MOS) might as well be an oil-painting in a museum. It gets ignored; even though we are primarily visual creatures. 'Static', passive, un-threatening imagery does not get first priority with us.

Of course, you can view 'silent' films on channels like PBS too but they almost always have had scores added to make them presentable. Naturally, PBS realizes no one is going to watch a movie without any kind of audio. So most of the time, they can find something, they locate some music that at some point was added to the flick by someone.

The force of the genuine article though is staggering. I mean, if you ever attend a restored silent which has had a contemporary composer deliberately set down and re-score it with fresh incidental 'gestures' to build suspense or punctuate the visuals. Then, you will hop up in your seat; and its the music which does it.

I've seen Philip Glass Orchestra perform (in an orchestra pit) in front of the screen, his new score for 'Metropolis' for example. Just the way orchestras used to back in the silent era. It makes the film work. Other composers take on similar tasks.

I still haven't seen the Metropolis with Blondie and Benatar. One day.

Musicals are frequently taken from the theatre. Some translate well and others less so. I tend to like the older ones although I haven't seen many of the newer ones, I have to admit. When I lived in in NYC, I went to the theatre a great deal until it became too expensive. Do you think there's a higher caliber of movie musicals from the theatre as opposed to those which are not?

I wish I knew enough about the topic to say. But it's not really my bailiwick.

The only aspect I can confirm is the growing trend to create Broadway musicals as part of existing media 'packages' or media 'deals'. You probably already spotted this yourself.

For instance, if there's a new Disney movie in the works well Disney pre-arranges (not only) 2-3 sequels in advance but all the toys and comic books and clothing-line and McDonald's Happy-Meal tie-ins long in advance so that when the movie finally arrives the USA is practically blanketed with 'related imagery' and 'related products' to sorta 'surround us' with the story in a way we can't escape.

As part of this, they already begin working on a Broadway musical version of the story; floats for the Macy's parade, a version for Ice-Capades, a version for Nickelodeon, audiobook version, everything everything everything. That's the process responsible for many musicals on Broadway these days.

I'm sure there's lots more to it than just this one piece I happen to focus on but this is the only sliver I can speak to. What are some big musicals lately? Do they seem truly independent or is it obvious they come from these conglomerates? Last time I looked it was: Spiderman the Musical, Rocky the Musical, Dracula the musical ...all of these are very 'rights-secured' products.

Of course there's also stuff 'Mamma Mia' (music by Abba), a new 'Bon Jovi' musical, that Motown musical (what was it called?) and other transparent money-grabs like these. Even 'Tommy' was part of this, my god.

Betsy wrote: "From #19 - I noticed you mentioned 'Garryowen' which is a favorite of mine. When I visited the Little Bighorn battlefield, i also stopped at the post office in Garryowen, MT to get a postmark. The ..."

For some real fun, watch the section of They Died With Their Boots On when George Custer (Errol Flynn) and his men gather around a piano to listen to a little British tune. Garryowen.......and how it spreads through the town and ends up as the signature music for the 7th Cavalry with full orchestra. It is pure fiction but so enjoyable.

0h, I agree. They really took liberties with it, but not as much as Flynn's Charge of the Light Brigade! Still, Garryowen is terrific. Love that song.

Jill wrote: "Betsy wrote: "From #19 - I noticed you mentioned 'Garryowen' which is a favorite of mine. When I visited the Little Bighorn battlefield, i also stopped at the post office in Garryowen, MT to get a ..."

Yea it's a good one, I watched the film last week and the tune is still in my head. I did like how they started off at the piano, then to a few other instruments to finally a full band playing.

I work for IATSE sometimes. Tonight is the Carol King musical on stage It's just a straight biography. I really want to see it, but we can't get free tickets. I could stand outside and listen. The props look very cool.

There for years every time one of the Cav unit's over here would have a change of command ceremony I'd go and watch just to hear the band play Garryowen.

I can understand that. In the television movie, 'The Rough Riders' there's a segment when a woman sings, 'Garryowen' just as the 1st Volunteer Cavalry is ready to leave for Cuba. It's a rouser.

Feliks wrote: "I wish I knew enough about the topic to say. But it's not really my bailiwick.

The only aspect I can confirm is the growing trend to create Broadway musicals as part of existing media 'packages' o..."

I hadn't really thought much about the commercial tie-in to movies and theatre performances since I don't go anymore. Disney certainly does its tie-in to everything it produces. I am just amazed at how animation with big name stars has grown too. I guess that's why I stick with the familiar since I haven't actually been to a movie or theatre since 2007!

Doubledf99.99 wrote: "There for years every time one of the Cav unit's over here would have a change of command ceremony I'd go and watch just to hear the band play Garryowen."

Well, now I have a Garryowen ear worm......went around all day yesterday humming it since I don't know the words.

The Carole King Musical is fantastic. If it comes anywhere near you, go see it. I am a girl group fanatic, so maybe I got more than the average person from it, but damn. It's absurdly good.

Since 'Lawrence of Arabia' is my favorite film, it's probably natural that I am crazy about the music. Maurice Jarre wrote that great score in 4 weeks. He worked with David Lean again for 'Dr. Zhivago, 'Ryan's Daughter', and 'A Passage to India.' He also worked on 'Is Paris Burning?', 'Dead Poets Society, 'Gorillas in the Mist' and many others. A highly talented and inventive man.

Wasn't there an 'Arabian Symphony' (late 1800s, British) from which the 'Lawrence' music was drawn? I remember discovering it on a classical music station.

Just watched Return to Oz. Good score. Odd that there's no singing. You'd think that Disney would have insisted on that sort of thing. The whole thing was pretty consistent with Baum.

I know there's 'Scheherazade' and Arabian Nights, but I know of no connection to Lawrence specifically.

A British journalist sometime in the early '70s, spontaneously decided to challenge himself (similar to the way Lawrence did) by single-handedly crossing the Sahara with no prior experience. Makes for a fun travel book. The upshot was that it didn't turn out well. What he learned was that in some ways the feat just isn't possible for a westerner to do without a motorized caravan of support vehicles. The problems are unique and extraordinary. The food he had to eat, and the water he had to survive on were often indescribably filthy and vile. We don't realize when watching the movie that wells where everyone drinks from --camels also drink from. And camels are not fastidious. It is also a lot more difficult to stay on course than T.E. does, magnetic compasses turn out to be painfully difficult to keep operational. And it really requires 3-4 camels not just one. They wear out. I don't recall the book title but it was truly an eye-opening account for those of us swept away by the romance of that Lean movie. It's in my 'Top 25' list for sure, but I wish it was a tad more realistic...

Never seen it. I feel like you need to see it in a theater or on a really, really large television.

Lawrence crossed the Nefud, in Arabia, not the Sahara in Africa. The movie definitely showed the camels drinking from the same wells as the men, not the type where Ali shot Lawrence's guide, but the ones near Auda's camp, which were flat. I'm not saying everything is totally authentic in the movie, but I doubt that the book is any kind of comparison.

I would recommend seeing it in a theatre, at least once. I have seen it over 40 times, 10-15 of those on tv so I admit a large screen is an advantage.

Aye and I've read Lawrence's own idealistic writings but this travel book was useful in giving a more up-to-date account of what camel travel and deep desert travel really consists of. Lawrence's own book is not nearly as frank as to practical discomforts of the trip. I haven't gone into detail about the unsavory aspects in this conversation, naturally.

Though I'm not a fan of all those sniping commentators out there, who try to completely debunk TE's contribution to history --there was Gertrude Bell too, it proves that individuals can make a huge difference; ultimately I think the film makes these feats of diplomacy all seem 'rather a little easier' than it probably must have been.

Robert Bolt characterized TE as a fanatic for 'cleanliness' for example --he goes to Arabia because it's very clean-looking. Well there's a lot more dirt and filth in a real desert than the film ever shows; that's all. Stands to reason, no water to bathe in, its fairly rank out there. I love Lean's final product too ...these are not 'big' questions of military or historical accuracy ...more just about 'presentation'. 'Prettying up' things (slightly) for the screen. Common enough practice.

You said the key word, up-to-date. What happened 100 years ago is not really the same thing. You can get a feeling for the heat, the dirt, etc., your author was not at war, except against the desert.

7 Pillars of Wisdom may not be entirely truthful, but what memoir is? I think Lean tried to give a realistic look at a very torn man.

Part of why I loathe that harpy Pauline Kael. Apparently she hated everything Lean tried to do. Every modern film of his. What a little nothing she was; to discourage a man like that from his work!

Still wonder what I heard on the radio that time. I see a few titles on Amazon...Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov. Maybe the station was in fact, playing Maurice Jarre?

Rimsky-Korsakov did 'Scheherazade', but that's all I know.

Cliff Edwards' version of 'Paper Moon'. Is now officially my favorite version. Just heard it on Dismuke

Didn't he play the ukulele?l