Tournament of Books discussion

location to discuss Optic Nerve's (by Maria Gainza) inclusion in the short list and general thoughts on the book

I listened to the audio version of this one and I don't think that was the best format. I didn't notice anything wrong with it, but while I found it easy to connect with the parts about the narrator's real-time experiences, I wasn't able to keep up with and connect to the historical parts. And I do enjoy art history in general. The transitions were a little too seamless and it threw me off a bit. If I have time I'll try to read the print version of this to see if that helps me capture the brilliance that others have mentioned. Maybe I'll wait and see if it makes it past the first round?

Lauren wrote: "I listened to the audio version of this one and I don't think that was the best format. I didn't notice anything wrong with it, but while I found it easy to connect with the parts about the narrato..."

I'm currently listening to the audio and I am having the same issue with distinguishing between the historical and present parts.

I listened to it too and felt the same way. I think if I didn't have a background in Art History, it wouldn't have been as interesting, since I knew what most of the works looked like. I liked this one a lot, but I don't think it'll stick in my mind for too long.

I read this in print and ended up giving up on this, not because I had any serious problems with it, but only because it never engaged me, and I didn't want to spend more time with it. I don't have a background in art history, so the works weren't familiar, and, although I liked the writing well enough on a sentence level, I didn't have much else to grab onto.

In the last couple of years, I've lost patience very easily with books that don't have a clear plot, although I try to remain open-minded and always hope such a book will win me over. (And sometimes they do! I love Ali Smith's seasonal quartet, for example.)

Just starting this one. My book doesn’t have any reprinted paintings (I think somewhere else folks mentioned them in their copies). I’m usually a person who requires a narrative as well but I just finished Say Say Say which had nearly none and was fantastic (even if it’s extra tricky to land the ending that way), and I love everything I’ve read by Ali Smith.

ok, I finished the book and while I feel like I have no idea what it was about - or rather, what point she is trying to make amidst all the myriad topics - I fell hard for the anecdotal storytelling and the sort of word-association game played with her personal life and artists/works of art. I seem to be loving the books without a true narrative arc lately (surprising myself).

I was thrown by the two chapters that are in 2nd person - is she talking to/of herself? it certainly seems so but I cannot be certain since most of the time she just narrates about herself in first person. There doesn't seem to be a clear reason to switch and it unsettled me. I couldn't find anything especially unique about the stories in those chapters to warrant the shift.

Also - she or the translator uses 'I've become a dab hand at...' several times and while I'm familiar with the phrase, I didn't love it nor its overuse. Anyone think this is was a translator tic? or is the phrase originally derived from Spanish? otherwise, I thought the translation fantastic.

I'm reading it on Kindle and there are no paintings :(

After the first few pages I was thinking, 'nope,' but something about it is so fascinating and two days later I'm almost finished with it. I can't put it down. It's really the first book in the whole tourney that I've read so far that I feel this way about. it's not as important as LCA, but I'm finding it irresistible and once I gave up searching for the narrative, I've relaxed into this story of how to see the world through art. I was worried I wasn't going to find a book to really root for and wish I had my zombie back to vote for it.

My hardcover does not have any pictures either. I am googling as I go. I only have three essays/stories to go. This was a happy surprise for me too. I am really enjoying it a lot.

I've not noticed "I've become a dab hand at" once. I guess I skipped over it.

My only bugbear is this is not a novel really. There is no story. It feels more like either a group of essays or a memoir expressed through art history.

Ruthiella wrote: "My only bugbear is this is not a novel really. There is no story. It feels more like either a group of essays or a memoir expressed through art history. ..."

I experienced the person having these musings as a fictional character, so for me it felt like a novel.

It's a little strange to realize that it changes my reading experience, whether I imagine the narrator = author, or imagine the narrator = fictional person, but it does somehow.

I am usually so resistant to no-plot novels, but I honestly loved this, and loved both Say, Say, Say & A Girl Returned from the longlist which are also not big on plot and sort of roam around the interior of the narrator’s mind. Say, Say, Say especially reminded me of this one because both think about art and relationships a lot in digression.

Lark wrote: "It's a little strange to realize that it changes my reading experience, whether I imagine the narrator = author, or imagine the narrator = fictional person, but it does somehow"

I agree! Now I wonder what it is that made me think that this book is more auto-fiction than fiction? Something in the text or the author's picture or what? I will have to think on that some.

Is it possibly this American MFA hemogeny that pervades literary fiction that makes these works in translation, Latin America especially, seem to be much more formally inventive? I surely don't read enough of either to make this generalization. But, they seem to be unconcerned with rules of a novel or whether it fits in a fiction, memoir, auto-fiction category that US book promotion requires.

I just finished this and absolutely loved it. If not for the two chapters that switched perspective, it would have been almost a five star read for me. Didn't feel like a debut novel at all. Beautifully written.

I hope it goes on to beat The Water Dancer now.

Collin wrote: "I just finished this and absolutely loved it. If not for the two chapters that switched perspective, it would have been almost a five star read for me. Didn't feel like a debut novel at all. Beauti..."

I think we were probably finishing up almost simultaneously, Collin. I finished this afternoon as well. I also really liked this, I don't know much about art (to me Rothko is just boring rectangles) but I loved the way Maria talked about how the art physically affected her, some of the lines just made me stop and reflect...Then I'd look up the painting she was discussing and reread how it made her feel, it was fascinating and kind of fun...Then in the next scene she'd show the emotion of a memory, which mirrored the effect of the art...It was beautifully done.

I didn't think I'd like all the stories of the artists interspersed, but I ended up loving them. Both the present and past stories were so engaging, and the way they interlaced was brilliant.

And a book with this theme: "...isn’t all artwork—or decent art—a mirror? Might a great painting not even reformulate the question what is it about to what am I about? Isn’t theory also in some sense always autobiography?” It's true of any art form, including literature and music, and it's wonderful to read a book that echoes with that understanding. I also hope it goes far.

Elizabeth wrote: "Collin wrote: "I just finished this and absolutely loved it. If not for the two chapters that switched perspective, it would have been almost a five star read for me. Didn't feel like a debut novel..."

I could not agree more Elizabeth.

"And a book with this theme: "...isn’t all artwork—or decent art—a mirror? Might a great painting not even reformulate the question what is it about to what am I about? Isn’t theory also in some sense always autobiography?” It's true of any art form, including literature and music, and it's wonderful to read a book that echoes with that understanding. I also hope it goes far. "

Beautifully put!

For me this is probably this year's " The Dictionary of Animal Languages". The writing is a joy to read. :-)

Elizabeth wrote: "Collin wrote: "I just finished this and absolutely loved it. If not for the two chapters that switched perspective, it would have been almost a five star read for me. Didn't feel like a debut novel..."

It sounds like you found the best way to read this book. Those of us who listened to the audio version didn't get much out of it, but this sounds like a good system to get the most out of it - nice work!

Oh boy did I like this book. I love María’s sentences. I love her stories. I love the way she talks about her body. I love the way she talks about art. I love the way she talks about identity and life and family and theory. I didn’t mind the lack of a plot, though it did take me 50ish pages (longer than usual) to get hooked. This might be my favorite of the tournament so far, at least neck and neck with Girl, Woman, Other (I love a good ramble).

first judge up on this round writes about art. either that is very good or very bad for this book but I'm guessing it'll put it over the top (I really liked it overall)

Amy wrote: "first judge up on this round writes about art. either that is very good or very bad for this book but I'm guessing it'll put it over the top (I really liked it overall)"

I'm pretty sure it'll win over Water Dancer, for me at least it's no competition. But then it goes up against On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous, and I'm guessing it won't make it through...although who knows? I loved both books but I think if I had to pick one I'd choose Optic Nerve. (It was just as well written IMO, and definitely a more enjoyable read!)

ETA: Or maybe against Your House Will Pay, I shouldn't make the assumption that Gorgeous will win, since it seems polarizing...

Elizabeth wrote: "Amy wrote: "first judge up on this round writes about art. either that is very good or very bad for this book but I'm guessing it'll put it over the top (I really liked it overall)"

I'm pretty sur..."

I haven't read Your House Will Pay yet so haven't filled that part in on my bracket but I was leaning towards On Earth for the win... but then I really couldn't say what the judge will pick between those two. I liked them both but preferred Optic Nerve... and the judge's bios/twitter feeds aren't giving me enough confidence for a guess! (I feel like such a stalker!)

Just finished Optic Nerve and really liked it. I love reading novels where I learn stuff, so kept my iPad close to look up the paintings and artists she talked about,, and found that really added to my enjoyment. It's not my favorite of the short list, but definitely one of those off-the-radar choices that I'm grateful to the overlords for bringing into the tourney. (Although I think this was actually ON my radar thanks to your early enthusiasm for it, @Lark--thank you!)

I just finished and didn’t like it as much as I’d hoped. I read it as an audiobook and agree that wasn’t a great way to read this novel. But I did try. I even started over half way through and it still just didn’t capture me like so many others in the tournament.