Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion

Welcome to our January 2020 BOM thread! We will be discussing Orientation, which is Josh’s pick for December, pushed forward because we read Josh’s latest release last month!

Feel free to start discussing the book whenever you are ready, but be aware that there will be spoilers here!

Happy reading!

I gave up on this story very early. I just did not like the MCs and the way they talked to each other. They sounded to me like a couple that had grown resentful of each other. It just was not fun for me, but I hope the rest you are enjoying it.

Philipp wrote: "I gave up on this story very early. I just did not like the MCs and the way they talked to each other. They sounded to me like a couple that had grown resentful of each other..."

You're not alone, Philipp. I DNF'd @ 43% when I tried to read it last year. I see one of my updates was "I don't like a single one of the characters."

And I read all three in the series in one go, lol, and all the short stories around them.
I couldn't help but keep comparing this series to the Hazard and Somerset one. In the latter, I feel and care for the characters on a visceral level, and that hasn't happened with the characters in the Borealis series. Or maybe it did...albeit in a different way. I still felt/feel the need to know what happens to them, but I also find them, especially Shaw, somewhat annoying. Shaw was better in that respect in Orientation.
I did like their banter. I wasn't sure at first, but as it continued, it grew on me because it shows the bond between them, the instinctual way in which they connect. And occasionally it's quite funny in a wacky way I enjoyed.
Initially I thought the Borealis series would be...lighter, again, compared to Hazard and Somerset, but, seems Gregory Ashe doesn't do lighter per se, which is actually great, and even if i don't love the characters in this one, I still admire the complexity, the humanity in them.

Mystery-wise, I thought it was fantastic.

I’m looking forward to starting it soon, so I guess we’ll just have to wait to see how I like the characters!

Do we know if the 3rd book is the last?
I like to read my series in one go, else I forget all the W's

Lulu wrote: "Do we know if the 3rd book is the last?
I like to read my series in one go, else I forget all the W's"

Yes, in this series. I think the author mentioned that he might write another series with these characters, but i'm not 100% sure.

It only seems to be available on Amazon, so I couldn't purchase it.

Here are my review/notes from May 2019:

The first book in the new Gregory Ashe series (Borealis Investigations) is Orientation. Ashe’s two MCs are partners in a St. Louis detective agency that specializes in cases for the LGBTA community. North is the agency owner, but his license has been suspended for actions taken defending his partner, Shaw, in a physical altercation. Shaw is... complicated. The back-story is slowly revealed, and those familiar with Ashe’s Hazard & Somerset series will notice a number of similar elements. Ashe writes some of the very best, albeit often over the top, dialogue/banter.

(Pari, their office assistant, seems to assist only in providing pastry treats for the guys to swipe. This character is an extended one-liner, past the use-by date. I want to use my deepest teacher voice and tell her to knock it off, perhaps in more direct terms. She and her girlfriend and boyfriend have roles in book two, so I’ll retreat for now.)

I'll be re-reading shortly. (I'm reading some non-m/m fantasy right now.) My overall impression, having also read the other two books currently in the the series, is similar to KC's. Ashe is challenging to read, but I keep reading and reading. Also, because the character relationship arcs in his books continue throughout each series, the first books leave a lot hanging. More to say later, but yes, Shaw is a particularly difficult character.

All right, just read everyone's comments. I'm late to start reading, but I hope to begin tonight!

Josh wrote: "All right, just read everyone's comments. I'm late to start reading, but I hope to begin tonight!"

YAY!!!

I sampled the Orientation audiobook, liked it, and bought it. I've been listening the past two days and it really works for me with this narrator. Charlie David's voicing is making this re-read better for me than my first.

One of the things I most appreciate about Gregory Ashe's writing is how he slowly reveals/unveils the characters, their history, and why they behave the way they do. His mysteries work that way too. It's a way of storytelling that I find very appealing. I find myself appreciating this even more as I re-read. The construction of the overall story arc is complex and well-done.

Karen wrote: "One of the things I most appreciate about Gregory Ashe's writing is how he slowly reveals/unveils the characters, their history, and why they behave the way they do. His mysteries work that way too. It's a way of storytelling that I find very appealing. I find myself appreciating this even more as I re-read. The construction of the overall story arc is complex and well-done."

Exactly this! I find all these aspects fascinating. And such a keen eye for humanness in all its...well, mess.

Karen wrote: "I sampled the Orientation audiobook, liked it, and bought it. I've been listening the past two days and it really works for me with this narrator. Charlie David's voicing is making ..."

Yes, I appreciate it all the more in these days of info dump writing,

KC wrote: "... Exactly this! I find all these aspects fascinating. And such a keen eye for humanness in all its...well, mess. ..."

Yes. I finished listening today. I somehow forgot exactly how dark this story is. Hearing it read made this even more vivid. There are a few (well, maybe more than a few) scenes that are very difficult to read, and more so to hear. Ashe's stories are dark, but also so real, in their own somewhat surreal way.

So I'm really considering why I find them so affecting. I suppose it is somehow uplifting/reassuring to see his main characters make their way through the hells they create and the hells thrown upon them that they confront. If this was noir mystery they might not survive, but since these are also romances, there is a promise of light at the end... after several circles of hell of course. :)

I was just thinking about how much I like slow reveals of characters, where they’re well rounded from the start, but you have another hook to keep you reading because you want to know more about them. I think Joseph Hansen did this really well too.

So I'm three chapters in--which is hardly any where at all, I know--and really enjoying it so far.

What I'm enjoying:

The leisurely pace and attention to detail

The careful effort to construct a believable, three-dimensional world peopled by three-dimensional characters. Again, I'm not far enough into the book to be invested in the main characters yet, but they interest me. I paid especial attention to Shaw, given that some of you found him problematical, but I'm not at a point where whatever the challenges are would be in play.

I do appreciate that it's already clear where he and North will have conflicts--and those conflicts feel organic, growing out of those three dimensional characters.

Mastery of the English language. And boy do I sound like a snob with that one, but... It is SO refreshing to see someone striving for style and voice when the majority of writers are doing their best to adopt a homogenized, generic...narration (I don't think you can really call that kind of narrative, "voice" because it's so stripped down and neutral.)

(Side note: that featureless, toneless, homogenized voice is actually pushed in writing courses now because it allows for speed, seamless co-writing, and accessibility by readers with reduced vocabulary and attention span. And I wish I was kidding about this, but I'm not.)

A traditional approach to storytelling and mystery.

Also, I envy the speed at which Ashe is able to produce!

Josh wrote: "(Side note: that featureless, toneless, homogenized voice is actually pushed in writing courses now because it allows for speed, seamless co-writing, and accessibility by readers with reduced vocabulary and attention span. And I wish I was kidding about this, but I'm not.)"

Wow, that's interesting and worrying. Thank you for telling us.

BTW I haven't started yet.

Josh wrote: "So I'm three chapters in--which is hardly any where at all, I know--and really enjoying it so far.

What I'm enjoying:

The leisurely pace and attention to detail

The careful effort to construct a..."

Even in Libraries, when we write our blog posts, we're supposed to make them readable for everyone, so even when you're writing about an academic college level subject, they want it for an 8th grade reading level. I think they may have uped that to 10th grade reading level, but still. It's really frustrating.

Just read the first chapter... OMG, if someone threw out all of my cheese... lol

Jordan wrote: "Just read the first chapter... OMG, if someone threw out all of my cheese... lol"

I know, right? 😱

I really enjoyed these books although their back and forth banter got annoying at times. The characters are well-drawn and the books are well-plotted. As much as I love Josh’s clean, Hansenesque writing style, I equally love how rich, full and lushly Ashe writes.

Jordan wrote: "Just read the first chapter... OMG, if someone threw out all of my cheese... lol"

I tried with the Urban Dictionary, but I still don't understand the cheese thing. Could you explain it to me, please?

Lol - It’s actual cheese. Shaw is always trying to get North to try weird diets and fads.

Steve wrote: "I really enjoyed these books although their back and forth banter got annoying at times. The characters are well-drawn and the books are well-plotted. As much as I love Josh’s clean, Hansenesque wr..."

The banter is over the top, but funnier to me when I imagine how perplexing/annoying it is to those who are in proximity and forced to witness it. Not so funny when I imagine myself being in proximity to witness it in RL. ;)

Yeah, actual cheese... though my preference is for Vermont sharp cheddar. YUM! And no, I’m not supposed to be eating cheese, but seriously, you touch my cheese, or even think about it... lol.

The diet/fad thing will bug me, but otherwise I’m finding myself laughing at most of this, even as I’m horrified by some things, and I’m only in the middle of chapter two so far.

Karen wrote: "The banter is over the top, but funnier to me when I imagine how perplexing/annoying it is to those who are in proximity and forced to witness it. Not so funny when I imagine myself being in proximity to witness it in RL. ;)"

Yes, exactly, lol. I think at first i was slightly perplexed about it, but it really grew on me, and by book three i was quite enjoying their particular brand of banter.

I also thought it was a very clever way of throwing "the enemy" because it comes naturally to them, this bouncing something off each other, but while doing that they actually assess the situation and ready themselves for what's needed.

Jordan wrote: "Just read the first chapter... OMG, if someone threw out all of my cheese... lol"

Quite distressing, isn't it. :-D

Steve wrote: "Lol - It’s actual cheese. Shaw is always trying to get North to try weird diets and fads."

Thank you, Steve and Jordan. When I don't understand something like this sentence my first thought is that it is an english saying I don't know ;-)

I finally started it. For the moment I love it.

The only niggle is: did Shaw and North appear in a previous series? What happened to them in the past is quite clear and it is cleverly introduced, a bit there, a bit here, without long explanations... Still, I don't like to feel like I missed the prequel.

Antonella wrote: "I finally started it. For the moment I love it.

The only niggle is: did Shaw and North appear in a previous series? What happened to them in the past is quite clear and it is cleverly introduced, ..."

There's no prequel. This is the first book. Everything will be revealed gradually as the series progresses.

I finished! I think I will read the rest of the series because I want to see if they get together. I enjoyed their banter. Pari was just irritating. If her behavior was supposed to be funny, I just didn't get it.

The slow reveal of the history between the characters was intriguing. I cried for them.

I love slow reveal stuff! Unfortunately, I forgot to bring my kindle to work yesterday, so I didn't get anything read, so more will happen today, hopefully. :-)

Loretta wrote: "Pari was just irritating. If her behavior was supposed to be funny, I just didn't get it."

I didn't get it either. She's rude and seems to be completely incompetent on purpose. I did sort of like - not sure that's the right word for it - the way her attitude and comebacks matched/were in the spirit of the history classes she's taking. Even if I disliked her character, as a narrative detail that was kind of cool.

Pari just came on page for me and so far, I'm meh on her.

I'm running late, but I'm starting it this weekend :)

Pari is annoying AF throughout the series.

Pausing in my reading, still early in the book, to say that these guys are already sorta meant for each other, if North is going to react to Shaw getting hurt the way he did. And Tucker... haven't yet met him, but I don't like him. if he won't let North buy a new car... sheesh... he seems rather controlling to me and I don't really know anything about him.

What I know about the past case was that North was acting in self defense, IMO. Why is he being punished, by just about everyone, for it? Life is never fair.

On the other hand... Shaw is annoying about the diet and the yoga!!!! And viewing that, they are not compatible. lol.

Jordan wrote: "On the other hand... Shaw is annoying about the diet and the yoga!!!! And viewing that, they are not compatible. lol."

I don't know. I really want to try yoga after reading this ;)

It’s just the fact that he’s forcing it on North when North clearly doesn’t want it, that bugs me. It’s like Shaw thinks he’s already married to the guy. Lol. But then I think about the state of his bathroom, and I shudder and try to block the memory!

I've been on something of a roll with audiobooks, so after I finished listening to Orientation, I re-read and listened to Triangulation. It's the toughest for me of the three books, and hearing it Charlie David read it (beautifully) made certain parts even tougher. Well, if you've read these, or continue reading the series in the future, you'll know what I mean. I'm waiting to re-read Book 3 until the audio comes out. (I hope it's coming out soon). This is definitely a three (or more) book story.

Oh, and I just started reading Ashe's latest Hazard and Somerset book, The Rational Faculty, (his 7th H&S book, but first in a new "Union of Swords" series/set). It's not light reading. ;) The second book in this set comes out at the end of this month.

What do you think the title infers/means? I understand a numbers of possibilities/overt references for Triangulation, but with Orientation I've missed something...

I always assumed 'Orientation' referred to how North and Shaw, even if they didn't realize it, have always been oriented toward the other.

I agree with you about 'Triangulation' being the toughest of the three. It's packs so many emotional wallops, but it's so beautifully written and narrated. (I audio-proofed it for Gregory and went through a fair amount of Kleenex!)

I hope you're enjoying 'The Rational Faculty'! It's a great book. (Prepare yourself for 'Police Brutality' - it's so good!)

Steve wrote: "I always assumed 'Orientation' referred to how North and Shaw, even if they didn't realize it, have always been oriented toward the other.

I agree with you about 'Triangulation' being the toughes..."

Yes, I should have seen that about their orientation towards each other. There are so many layers in his stories that I sometimes miss the most direct associations. :)

I love layers like that.

I’m taking forever to get through this one because I keep reading other things I’m more in the mood for this past week. And this week, starting tomorrow really, I need to read Hillbilly Elegy for my other book group that meets next week. Sigh.

I guess this just hasn’t quite grabbed me yet, at least not the way The Long Call did recently. Maybe Matthew Venn was just a more relatable main character? Oh well. I’ll keep reading this as time allows.

I finished this yesterday.

I think I would have really loved it had I not read anything else by Gregory Ashe: I really loved the banter between North and Shaw, and how fiercely protective they are of each other. As it is, however, I'm afraid that North and Shaw will continue to not communicate with each other, and their relationship will only deteriorate over the series.

I might finish the series anyway, though; seeing as how it's only three books. It won't be like Hazard and Somerset where the disfunction just goes on and on and on . . .

North and Shaw are running hot and cold for me. At some points I dislike them. At other points I want to hug them and make everything better for them.

And sometimes I think they’re joking with each other, but I don’t get the conversation, and what’s going on.

But, at 30% I’ve now learned Shaw’s big secret, and I want to keep reading, so that’s good.

I want to punch Tucker in the face for being so manipulative with his fake tears. I want to get North a new car. The van is now more frustrating than Shaw’s habits!

I want to know what you think when you finish it, Jordan.

I’ll keep posting as I go. I don’t normally read two books at once, unless one is an audiobook, but I’ll manage. Lol.