Women's Classic Literature Enthusiasts discussion

Discussion for Part 1

Please use spoiler tags when appropriate. See message 9.

Once again my vast library system does not have this book. I hope others have better luck in finding the books the group selects.

☯Emily wrote: "Once again my vast library system does not have this book. I hope others have better luck in finding the books the group selects."

Ah, that sucks :-(. I was able to reserve from my library and will get started soon.

☯Emily wrote: "Once again my vast library system does not have this book. I hope others have better luck in finding the books the group selects."

The search was tricky, but it is the well-reputed first translation. Working well on my kindle.

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/56158

Captured my interest from the first page. I think I am going to really like this.

☯Emily wrote: "Once again my vast library system does not have this book. I hope others have better luck in finding the books the group selects."

See message 4. It’s available free via project gutenberg. I bought mine used for $2.97 online, but that’s just my reading preference.

I’ll post background on the novel and our author tomorrow after work. I’m fascinated by both. :)

I'm not sure I will be able to read it on line since I have found it difficult in the past, but will try.

☯Emily wrote: "I'm not sure I will be able to read it on line since I have found it difficult in the past, but will try."

It would be great to see what you think if you join us, Emily. Whatever is fun and feels right to you, of course.

Let's use this thread for initial reactions, background on the book and author and applying spoiler tags, as appropriate. We'll make the other thread a "spoilers okay" thread.

Selma Lagerlof

Selma Lagerlöf (1858-1940) not only was the first female author to win the Nobel Prize for Literature )1909), she also saved a fellow laureate from the Nazis and she was the first female to be granted a membership in The Swedish Academy in 1914.

See this article:
“ A Noble Act – The Female Writer Who Fought Nazis and Machismo”
https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/12/20/...

Lagerlof was born in 1858 in Marbacka, an estate in western Sweden. She was the daughter of a lieutenant in the Royal Värmland Regiment and Louise Lagerlöf née Wallroth, whose father was a well-to-do merchant and a foundry owner. Lagerlof was born with a hip injury, and also, at the age of three and a half, a sickness left her lame in both legs, although she later recovered. Nonetheless, she suffered from a severe limp and later wrote in The Diary of Selma Lagerlöf, at the age of 74, of the disability that shaped much of her life.

In 1884, Selma's father became seriously ill and Mårbacka was sold. That same year, she completed her studies at the Royal Seminary. Her father was an alcoholic, something she rarely discussed. He did not want Selma to continue an education, or be involved with the women's movement. Later in life, she would buy back Marbacka with the money she received for her Nobel Prize, and lived there for the rest of her life.

She published Gosta Berling's Saga, her debut novel, at the age of 32. She was awarded the Nobel "in appreciation of the lofty idealism, vivid imagination, and spiritual perception that characterize her writings", but the decision was preceded by a harsh internal power struggle within the Swedish Academy. Her writing style was at odds with the then-prevailing realism and naturalism of August Strindberg and other then-contemporary Swedish writers.

Lagerlöf was deeply involved with women’s issues, especially the women’s suffrage movement. She spoke often on behalf women’s right to vote. In 1991, she became the first woman to be depicted on a Swedish banknote, when the first 20-kronor note was released.

This site, the History of Nordic Womens Literature, is fantastic. I highly recommend it if you have time to poke around and read the content no only pertaining to Selma Lagerlof but to other women authors.

https://nordicwomensliterature.net/wr...

At another article presented there, is the following initial paragraph:

“Selma Lagerlöf started off as a representative of early modernism but soon turned her back on it. Her narrative style resonates with self-confidence, rhythm, and a magical timbre that is unique in Nordic literature. While there is no lack of banality, sentimentality, moral lecturing, or old-fashioned spookiness, her vigilance whittles the language down to a state that is manageable for both the narrator and the reader.”

Additional links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_L...
https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/lit...

Gosta Berling's Saga

It was first translated by Lillie Tudeer in 1894, but was unavailable in the US and soon out of print in the UK. This edition was re-printed in 1918 by the American-Scandinavian Foundation with edits and 8 additional chapters that had been quietly omitted from the 1894 edition. It was also translated in 1898 by Pauline Bancroft Flach as The Story of Gösta Berling. Both of these editions are in the public domain and have been commonly reprinted by various publishers over the years.
Another English translation by poet Robert Bly was published in 1962. It was put out by Signet Classics under the title The Story of Gosta Berling. The most recent English translation, by Paul Norlen, was published in 2009 by Penguin.

Gösta Berling's Saga has been called the “prose epic of Swedish country life.” In some one of these many resources, I read that its initial sentence, "Finally, the vicar was in the pulpit," is one of the most famous in Swedish literature. (That's not the first sentence of the translation I'm reading ....)

There's a band named after the book! https://www.gostaberlingssaga.com/

On Lagerlof's entire body of work (no spoilers for our book):
https://publicdomainreview.org/essay/...

A review (includes spoilers) from The Independent:
https://www.independent.ie/entertainm...

An article published at The Nordic Womens Literature site – “One Long Variation on the Word, “Will”. Covers her whole bibilography and common themes.
https://nordicwomensliterature.net/20...

A main character list copied from wiki:

• Gösta Berling, defrocked minister and chief character
• Margarita Samzelius (née Celsing), the Major's wife — in charge of Ekeby; she gives the cavaliers a place to stay
• Sintram, the Evil one who only causes mischief
• Marienne Sinclaire, the actress, thrown out of her house for kissing Gösta
• Countess Elizabeth (Karlsdotter), from Italy, married to Count Henrik Dohna
• Anna Stjärnhök, engaged to a minor character, at one time loves Gösta
• Countess Marta, mother of Henrik, step-mother of Ebba, rich and haughty
• Count Henrik Dohna, Elizabeth's husband, known for being 'stupid'
• Ebba Dohna, Marta's step-daughter, extremely religious — Gösta's first love
• The 12 Cavaliers: Gösta Berling, Colonel Beerencreutz, major Anders Fuchs, Little Ruster, Rutger von Orneclou, Kristian Bergh, Squire Julius, Kevenhuller, Cousin Kristoffer, Uncle Eberhard, Lovenborg, Lilliecrona

I really appreciate the spoiler tags so I can enjoy this thread for a week or so before I start reading. Love the background info, Carol, and that she bought back the estate with some of her prize money!

I have an old copy from the library, and when I say old I mean the 1898 Flach translation, published in 1918. :-)

I'm so excited to start reading, and also will have fun with that Nordic Women Writers website. Thank you!

Kathleen wrote: "I really appreciate the spoiler tags so I can enjoy this thread for a week or so before I start reading. Love the background info, Carol, and that she bought back the estate with some of her prize ..."

I would love to have an old, old copy. They are hard on my eyes but feed my soul :). Looking forward to your thoughts when you get to starting it, Kathleen.

At this point, I wonder about Gosta. He doesn't seem to grasp the concept of consequences for actions.

Charlene wrote: "At this point, I wonder about Gosta. He doesn't seem to grasp the concept of consequences for actions."

How far are you, Charlene? I'm on Chapter 4 or so and had similar thoughts - that each chapter isn't so much of a continuation or progression or his development as a man, but as a narrative of his latest misadventure, which he'll blame on someone else. In chapter 2 where he (view spoiler)[rips off the child?? without so much as a moment's consideration for whether that's the move he wants to make. (hide spoiler)] Who does that?

Carol wrote: "Charlene wrote: "At this point, I wonder about Gosta. He doesn't seem to grasp the concept of consequences for actions."

How far are you, Charlene? I'm on Chapter 4 or so and had similar thoughts ..."

I will be starting chapter 6 tonight (Gosta the Poet).

Carol wrote: "Charlene wrote: "At this point, I wonder about Gosta. He doesn't seem to grasp the concept of consequences for actions."

How far are you, Charlene? I'm on Chapter 4 or so and had similar thoughts ..."

That was horrible what he did to the child then (view spoiler)[ he goes into a snowdrift to die. (hide spoiler)]

Thanks for all the background information Carol!

I'm also on chapter 4, very much on the fence at the moment. I keep rolling my eyes at Gösta's hand-wringing...

Reading a translated work depends so much on the translator. Different translations can seem like completely different books. I am enjoying the prose of the Pauline Bancroft Flach translation--flowing, easily read, often very evocative.

Is the story really about Gösta? He is somewhat of an everyman--different things to different people. Physically beautiful--sometimes. Very eloquent--sometimes. Very weak and inconsistent. A drunk. I find I am more interested in the other characters whose lives he influences.

Gosta falls in love too easily. I really doubt that it is really love that he is experiencing.

I should finish part one tonight. The beginning of the book was a slow read. Once I made it to page 80-ish, it started to get easier.

I’m starting Chapter 6 and loved this :

”Berga was not a rich man’s house. Hunger knew the way to the Captain’s thatch-covered dwelling, but he was received with jokes and laughter and entertainment, with song, as all other guests were, and he left as unwillingly as they did.”

It reminds me of Dickens’ description of Fezzywig.

Well this is a struggle! I'm finding it even more of a slog than the Adventures of Nils. I'm not sure if it's the translation (I'm reading the Pauline Bancroft Flach) but I find the writing so overwrought and trying too hard, especially the constant addresses to the reader (or horses, bears, land..), terrible inner monologues, and the papier mache characters.

Cam wrote: "Well this is a struggle! I'm finding it even more of a slog than the Adventures of Nils. I'm not sure if it's the translation (I'm reading the Pauline Bancroft Flach) but I find the writing so over..."

I think most of us are having the same troubles. There was a brief glimmer when it was easier to read. Start of part 2 goes back to the same.

I propose that we get comfortable skimming lightly through chapters that don’t resonate , so we keep moving forward . Im more of a DNF than skim reader, but here it makes sense. Some chapters I’ve enjoyed. Others meh.

Cam wrote: "I find the writing so overwrought and trying too hard.."

Could you give an example or two?

You all have me a little afraid of this one, but I'm starting it anyway. :-) Are you enjoying it, Ginny?

Kathleen wrote: "You all have me a little afraid of this one, but I'm starting it anyway. :-) Are you enjoying it, Ginny?"

Yes. Quite a bit. The language (in my opinion) is beautiful and poetic, but it is a "Saga" of mythical proportions. The characters are archetypal, but still sympathetic. I am a slow reader, and am taking my time. (Also reading too many other things at the same time.) The adventures definitely stray into the realm of fantasy. Given that we are in the middle of a cold snap, I can taste and feel the cold described in this section.

Ginny wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "You all have me a little afraid of this one, but I'm starting it anyway. :-) Are you enjoying it, Ginny?"

Yes. Quite a bit. The language (in my opinion) is beautiful and poetic, b..."

Yay! I'll be reading it for a while too--for the same reasons. :-) And winter does seem to be the time to read this one.

This is interesting. You can actually visit the manor and grounds. "Most of the saga is of course fiction, but both Gösta Berling and Ekeby are partly based on real life. Ekeby is clearly recognisable as the Rottneros Manor, where the owners of the Rottneros Mill lived. The memory of Ekeby is very much kept alive in today’s Rottneros Park, which has been built around the mansion. Rottneros Park is a unique sculpture park offering an exciting combination of formal park areas, natural parkland and creative horti-cultural design." From https://rottneros.com/media/1338/pulp...

Ginny wrote: "This is interesting. You can actually visit the manor and grounds. "Most of the saga is of course fiction, but both Gösta Berling and Ekeby are partly based on real life. Ekeby is clearly recognisa..."

Wow! Thanks for sharing this, Ginny. I wish all books came with that twenty page section in the middle with black and white photos of related materials.

Ginny wrote: "This is interesting. You can actually visit the manor and grounds. "Most of the saga is of course fiction, but both Gösta Berling and Ekeby are partly based on real life. Ekeby is clearly recognisa..."

Thanks for this, Ginny! Very interesting that they still celebrate the connection to this book as a sort of highlight of their history.

I'm starting to really enjoy this. Around about 50-60 pages in, it took a turn for the better for me.

Kathleen wrote: "Thanks for this, Ginny! Very interesting that they still celebrate the connection to this book as a sort of highlight of their history...."

She is referred to as the Shakespeare of Sweden. Which translation are you reading? I have been wondering about "pensioners" and "cavaliers". Neither term really describes these men. Or maybe sometimes they are one, and sometimes the other.

Ginny wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "Thanks for this, Ginny! Very interesting that they still celebrate the connection to this book as a sort of highlight of their history...."

She is referred to as the Shakespeare o..."

I'm reading the Flach translation. I think you're right--I got confused about the pensioners, but I believe they are the same folks as the cavaliers. The Cavaliers is to describe their history as (former?) soldiers, and I think of "pensioner" here as existing with the assistance of outside help, in this case the hospitality (or former hospitality) of the Major's wife. Am I on the right track?

I'm assuming this is based on an old meaning of the word "pensioner". I originally thought this was because they were boarding (as in "staying in a pension" - A Room with a View-style). According to the OED, now-obsolete definitions of the word include 'A member of the body of gentlemen serving as guards or attendants to the British monarch within the royal palace; a gentleman-at-arms.' and 'A member of a bodyguard; an attendant, a retainer'. Maybe that's what Flach was trying to evoke here...

Cam wrote: "I'm assuming this is based on an old meaning of the word "pensioner". I originally thought this was because they were boarding (as in "staying in a pension" - A Room with a View-style)...."

Ah! So "cavalier" ("a gentleman trained in arms and horsemanship; a mounted soldier : knight") and "pensioner" really are somewhat interchangeable using those definitions. Great find Cam--thank you.

How funny that she is sort of giving the words double meanings, with cavalier also meaning "disregard for the rights of others," and pension also meaning "one paid under given conditions to a person following retirement from service or to surviving dependents."