The Next Best Book Club discussion
Author/Reader Discussions
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WINTERSWIM author/reader discussion
I would like to receive a printed copy of the book if possible because I just had twins and I'm ready to jump back into reading because it's my favorite past time. I live in the state of Indiana in the United States and I can't wait to participate in the discussion. My email is brittcampbell1@yahoo.com
I would like to receive a copy of the book, electronic will be fine, I have way too many physical books, but if I end up with print that's okay, I don't want to mooch off the ones who don't live in the U.S. I would like to read this because I thought Ryan W. Bradley was J. Bradley, I kept getting their names confused. I thought he was on KUBOA press and wrote that short story collection. Ryan Bradley seems like a pretty cool writer though, I think I might've read his poetry, but don't remember what. I reside in New Jersey. I forgot to add that I will also participate in the discussion, because why not? I had fun with the Richard Fulco one.
This sounds like a great book! I would be happy with any format, but ebook would be my first choice. If I get a copy I will participate in the discussion and would gladly answer any questions the author has.
I'd like to enter for a copy. I'm in Australia, so audio or ebook are my preferences if I win. I've got tons of free time for reading in January! (ETA because I didn't read the header properly -- I'd also participate in the discussion in the group!)
Another book that sounds like a great story. I will take a print or ecopy. I would be happy either way. I will participate in the discussion and I live in Texas.vanae1962@yahoo.com
The premise of this book sounds very interesting . . . I would love to read this novel and find out more. I'd prefer a print copy and I live in the US. I will happily participate in the group discussion.
I'm in! I've read a couple of Ryan's books, and expect this to be another gritty yarn. I'm in the U.S. and prefer a paperback. I am happy to take place in the discussion. Best of luck to Ryan with the new book as well!
Hi! I'd like to join in the book discussion next month. I do love a good murder mystery! I'm in NJ, and I'd like to receive a print copy.
I am interested in the audiobook. I am willing and able to participate in the January 19-25 discussion.I reside in Ontario, Canada and listen to audiobooks daily. I am always looking for new and interesting books to listen to.
Can be sent to my email at justinandjakesmom@yahoo.ca
I will also post my review on my blog at http://amiesbookreviews.wordpress.com
Thanks!
Congratulations to everyone who entered! You are all winners! Check your email or goodreads DM and be sure to respond to my message in order to secure your copies of WINTERSWIM!
Thanks so much for entering!
Thanks so much for entering!
Loved this story really enjoyed it. wondering about your own religious background and if it had any influence in your writing? thank you so much for participating with us!
Thanks for the copy of the book, and participating here. Two setting questions: a) was the physical setting coming from personal experience of the area? It read as realistic in the details, which is something that I appreciate in novels.
and
b) how/why did you decide on the social setting (abuse, drugs, etc)?
Happy (Holiday) Monday everyone!
Ryan W Bradley will be joining us shortly to take your questions on WINTERSWIM, his other titles, poetry vs fiction, writing, publishing, heck, even his incredible BEARD! He'll be checking in with us all week long, so be sure to keep popping back in and chucking questions and thoughts his way...
(for those of you who might not know, Ryan is no stranger to TNBBC. He was here in October 2013 discussing his collection of poetry The Waiting Tide....)
So Welcome Ryan!!
We are thrilled to have you back, and are dying to dive (not pun intended) right into the discussion today.
I have to start by asking.....
How have your readers been reacting this book?
I saw a thing on Facebook the other day where you have someone who was so outraged by it that they were posting their review everywhere and anywhere they could???
Ryan W Bradley will be joining us shortly to take your questions on WINTERSWIM, his other titles, poetry vs fiction, writing, publishing, heck, even his incredible BEARD! He'll be checking in with us all week long, so be sure to keep popping back in and chucking questions and thoughts his way...
(for those of you who might not know, Ryan is no stranger to TNBBC. He was here in October 2013 discussing his collection of poetry The Waiting Tide....)
So Welcome Ryan!!
We are thrilled to have you back, and are dying to dive (not pun intended) right into the discussion today.
I have to start by asking.....
How have your readers been reacting this book?
I saw a thing on Facebook the other day where you have someone who was so outraged by it that they were posting their review everywhere and anywhere they could???
I saw this review. After reading the book, I'm disappointed by the lack of porn this reviewer stated the book was entirely about. Just kidding. :)Ryan, I wondered how the story came to you? And how did you decide what point-of-views to tell the story from?
I just love reading a book by an author who is new to me and boy did your story take me on a uncharted journey into the mind of person who was greatly influenced by his upbringing!Was there anything particular that gave you the idea to write this story or did it just totally evolve from within the creativeness of your thinking.
Hey! Thanks for diving right in everyone! And thanks to Lori for hosting me for the second time. You'd think she'd have learned better :DI'll do my best to answer whatever you all throw at me without making an ass of myself, which is harder than it might seem.
Shannon wrote: "Loved this story really enjoyed it. wondering about your own religious background and if it had any influence in your writing? thank you so much for participating with us!"Thanks, Shannon!
I was raised somewhat religiously, but outside the Christian tradition. For high school I went to a Catholic School. And now I'm an atheist. I've always been fascinated by religion in general, though. I'm especially fascinated with the iconography and traditions. And mythologies have always been a big interest of mine. But both those elements sort of just happened to the story, it was never my intent to write about religion, it just ended up being where I needed to go to tell the story.
Cory wrote: "Thanks for the copy of the book, and participating here. Two setting questions: a) was the physical setting coming from personal experience of the area? It read as realistic in the details, which is something that I appreciate in novels.
and
b) how/why did you decide on the social setting (abuse, drugs, etc)?"
You're most welcome, but don't thank me yet for taking part in this conversation :)
a) I am from Alaska, and grew up partially in Wasilla. I haven't been back in quite a while, but I wanted to be somewhat authentic to the place, so I had Google Maps open quite a bit, found the distances between places, etc.
b) Well, similarly to the religious aspect that just ended up being where the story had to go. I guess that I've had experience with these things makes them more likely to show up in my writing, but I'm constantly using fiction to try and explore how people manage to cope with the horrible experiences life throws at us. I'm amazed by the things humans can deal with and come out of, retaining some shred of their humanity and I'm still trying to figure out how we do that.
Chiming in here, boss.Thank you for the copy of the book. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I have two questions for you, both of them personal.
You've answered a little bit about the religious aspect of the book and how it might pertain to your personal life, but I want to address the violence. I understand that it is fiction, but it is dark and violent, and such things often come from our own experiences, however exaggerated. What is there about you autobiographically that has spilled out on these pages in the violence? Do you have a dark side that you struggle with? Did you go through traumatic or abusive violence that made the writing almost therapeutic?
And secondly, from following you in the social media world, I know you have a young son. Do you worry, or did you worry, about how the violence or religion in the book might affect him, while you were writing the book, for good or bad? How he might view you as a person for being able to write violence that comes from such a dark, psychological place?
Lori wrote: "I have to start by asking..... How have your readers been reacting this book?
I saw a thing on Facebook the other day where you have someone who was so outraged by it that they were posting their review everywhere and anywhere they could???"
For the most part readers have seemed to respond really positively, which honestly is a surprise. I think this story can be challenging for the psyche, I know it was for mine. Even though I've written other violent stories, they always make me a bit nauseous.
And, yeah, I posted on fb about a reader who reviewed in a few places. Honestly, I found them kind of humorous, simply because she hated the book so much and according to her Goodreads she didn't even finish it. That was the saddest thing to me, because I love the last two paragraphs of the book. But I knew going in (I always do with my fiction) that there are going to be people who absolutely hate it, and that's just part of the gig, I suppose. You have to be able to roll with it and find the humor where you can. That I was able to make someone so passionate (even negatively) is kind of a win in a weird way.
There have been a couple instances of it being called porn, too, which is another thing that happens with my writing. I disagree with that, but the most concerning thing to me in this instance is that if you read this story and your first thought is to think it's porn then you are watching some very disturbing porn.
Mikaela wrote: "I saw this review. After reading the book, I'm disappointed by the lack of porn this reviewer stated the book was entirely about. Just kidding. :)Ryan, I wondered how the story came to you? And how did you decide what point-of-views to tell the story from?"
If you want more porn, you might read Prize Winners, that's probably the closest thing to porn I will write :)
Well, the story was really difficult to get started. I tried writing it in a few different styles, and from different points of view. But it all started with the scene of Steven breaking into the morgue. That was all I knew at that point, a teenager was going to break into a morgue to see a girl he had a crush on. Things kind of fell into place from there.
The relationship with the girl (I'm going to look like an ass here and admit I don't remember the character's name), his former babysitter, came from a short story I'd written for an anthology called Hair Lit and it just sort of meshed itself into Winterswim as I got to that point.
I don't plot stuff out before I write, I don't have the patience or fortitude to do so. I write one thing and see where it goes from there, which probably makes editing more hellish in the long run.
Rhonda wrote: "I just love reading a book by an author who is new to me and boy did your story take me on a uncharted journey into the mind of person who was greatly influenced by his upbringing!Was there anything particular that gave you the idea to write this story or did it just totally evolve from within the creativeness of your thinking. "
Thanks, Rhonda!
As I mentioned it started with Steven breaking into the morgue. From there other elements started falling into place, Pastor Long and his history, the thoughts of belief and how belief can be twisted to work for someone's personal agenda, etc. The final piece, the thing that made it possible for me to finish writing the book, was the Tlingit mythology. Without that I would have never been able to complete the story I was trying to tell.
I like Leah's questions regarding your writing and how it may impact/influence how your son views you....
How long until you're cool with him reading your books?
How long until you're cool with him reading your books?
Leah wrote: "Thank you for the copy of the book. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I have two questions for you, both of them personal.You've answered a little bit about the religious aspect of the book and how it might pertain to your personal life, but I want to address the violence. I understand that it is fiction, but it is dark and violent, and such things often come from our own experiences, however exaggerated. What is there about you autobiographically that has spilled out on these pages in the violence? Do you have a dark side that you struggle with? Did you go through traumatic or abusive violence that made the writing almost therapeutic?
And secondly, from following you in the social media world, I know you have a young son. Do you worry, or did you worry, about how the violence or religion in the book might affect him, while you were writing the book, for good or bad? How he might view you as a person for being able to write violence that comes from such a dark, psychological place?"
Thanks, Leah! :)
Well, unlike my novel, Code for Failure this contains no real autobiographical experience. Thankfully! But sure, there's often going to be some basis of experience in certain aspects. I have dealt with abuse and many people close to me have dealt with horrific abuse as well. And, sure, I have a dark side, everyone does, but my dark side has very little to do with violence and is more about inner turmoil. And I'm generally pretty open about that, I've written essays about dealing with bipolar, obsessive compulsive disorder, neurosis, etc. I'm sure all that effects what and how I write in one way or another. I know OCD does quite a bit.
As for my children/family, I honestly don't think about it. It wouldn't serve my writing to do so. I have a 6 year old and a 16 year old. Obviously I won't let them read a book like this one, but if they choose to as adults, hopefully they'll have been raised to have the maturity to deal with that. I honestly don't ever worry about what people will think. Either they can accept that I write what I write or they don't.
As an aside, my 6 year old has a very dark imagination at times, so it must be genetic.
And, I think it's important to share my passion for writing with my kids. When my older boy was 8 I wrote a short novel for him, and I've written stories for my 6 year old, and am hoping to work on a novel for him as well.
Lori wrote: "I like Leah's questions regarding your writing and how it may impact/influence how your son views you....How long until you're cool with him reading your books?"
Well, once they're adults I can't stop them, right? One of my younger sisters (she's in her early twenties now) has read most of my writing and she seems to be pretty fond of it.
If what I write effects how people think of me as a person, well, they have bigger issues. I can't worry about that.
I love how you are sharing your love of writing and freedom of expression with your kids. That is a wonderful important piece of you they will be blessed to have always.
How did you learn about the Tlingit Mythology? That was something I have never heard of and so I did an internet search. So thanks for teaching me something new!
Rhonda wrote: "I love how you are sharing your love of writing and freedom of expression with your kids. That is a wonderful important piece of you they will be blessed to have always."Thanks, Rhonda. :) I do my best. I don't have natural fatherly instincts, but my parents were always very supportive and excited about creativity, and I want my kids to feel that, too. My 6 year old and I do a lot of stuff together, from making up stories to making music and it's the best part of being a parent in my mind.
Rhonda wrote: "How did you learn about the Tlingit Mythology? That was something I have never heard of and so I did an internet search. So thanks for teaching me something new!"We had a lot of family friends growing up who were Tlingit and Haida. I have a Tlingit name I was given when I was born by friends of my parents. And I went to pow-wows, etc. There was a lot of incidental immersion in that way. My stepdad had at one point helped create text books for a lot of native Alaskan tribes, and had friends who wrote plays, etc., based on native legends, including Gonaqadet.
It took me awhile to think of a question and now I have one I don't know how.... okay. One of the things I noticed in this novella? It's a novella right? Is the sparse prose and somehow, this sparse prose was just the perfect writing style for this novella. And my question is, in the noir genre, how important do you think writing style is? Do you feel that you should minimize the sentences and chapters as much as possible to keep the suspense going, the dark imagination more potent? Does this make sense? I feel like the shortest and most minimal writing tends to be the best when it comes to noir, despite only reading like 3 or 4 noir novels. So far, mostly the small press ones, impress me most.
Lixian wrote: "One of the things I noticed in this novella? It's a novella right? Is the sparse prose and somehow, this sparse prose was just the perfect writing style for this novella. And my question is, in the noir genre, how important do you think writing style is? Do you feel that you should minimize the sentences and chapters as much as possible to keep the suspense going, the dark imagination more potent? Does this make sense? I feel like the shortest and most minimal writing tends to be the best when it comes to noir, despite only reading like 3 or 4 noir novels. So far, mostly the small press ones, impress me most."Hi Lixian :)
I consider it a novella, yeah. It's short, 18k words-ish. It's a hard size to try and market. But stylistically, that's just how I write. I'm very concise, sometimes to a fault. I don't use a lot of long sentences, and I tend to play with dialogue a lot. All things that narrow the length of a book. I was told once in my MFA that if I wanted to write that way maybe I should write plays instead.
Putting aside the digression, I do believe noir is very tone-based, and the style of noir is very appealing to me. There are a lot of writers now who write what I call "blue collar noir," which is to say gritty, dark, violent stories about blue collar characters and settings. It's different from traditional noir, detectives and whatnot. That isn't to say that all noir is written the same way. There are writers who can do beautiful noir work with longer chapters, more narrative, etc.
Not to get too long-winded, but I think that my brevity, my short chapters, short burst sentences, etc. are a result of my OCD. It's very clear in the way I write poetry, but it's a little more concealed in fiction, it just comes across as fast-paced rather than neurotic.
Hey Ryan -- congrats on another fine book. My questions:What responsibility does the writer have when it comes to using sex, violence, and religion in a piece?
Are there limits?
Should there be?
Another question from the antipodes -- I received an audio copy of the book, and there was a song at the end of the recording. Is there a story behind the song's inclusion in the audio?
I see that most of the questions I had considered asking have already been asked and answered. (Great minds think alike, right?) However, I did have one quick question about the Tlingit mythology in the book. Is this an actual Tlingit myth or did you change it all to fit in with the storyline?
Also, have you ever considered writing a noir novel or novella set in the past and taking place within a Tlingit tribe setting? If so, that would be something I would be very interested in reading.
Thanks very much for providing me with a copy of WINTERSWIM. It is much appreciated and I will be posting my review shortly.
Hosho wrote: "Hey Ryan -- congrats on another fine book. My questions:What responsibility does the writer have when it comes to using sex, violence, and religion in a piece?
Are there limits?
Should there be?"
Hey Hosho, thanks, man. Much appreciated.
I think this is an important question, one I've thought about a lot, and one I'm not sure I fully know the answer to.
I do know that I think any glorification of violence is reprehensible. As far as sex and religion on their own, I'm not sure why we should consider limitations on those things unless they are paired with violence.
After finishing Winterswim we entered into an era of national conversation about violence against women. Very rightly so, and all too belatedly as well. There were times where I wondered if it was right to let the book be released at all. But I don't think the book is about violence against women, I think it's about the corruption of the soul, and in some ways even a father-son thing, in terms of a lost connection.
I also think art should explore things. I've always said my goal is to explore relationships, how people relate to one another in good and bad ways. And whether we like it or not violence is part of the world we live in. If art can't be used to explore that, what can?
I'm very glad that so far as many women have seemed to enjoy the book as men, maybe even more, and I think that's a testament to people recognizing that art does not equate to action or support.
Ryan,Thank you for the ebook! I don't have any questions, but I do want to share my experience with Winterswim. Honestly, it was a hard book for me to read. I have a history of sexual abuse and I was a meth addict when I was a teenager, so this book hit some nerves at various points. Teenage girls can make stupid decisions, and then when you throw meth into the mix, any good judgement left tends to go out the window. I did so many stupid things and put myself in so many dangerous situations, and your book took me back to some of those times. I probably wouldn't have finished the book had I not agreed to participate here. I thought the story and the writing were good, but it made me extremely uncomfortable. I wasn't expecting it to affect me like that when I read the summary. But, I do think that the ability to evoke strong reactions is an earmark of a well written book.
Cory wrote: "Another question from the antipodes -- I received an audio copy of the book, and there was a song at the end of the recording. Is there a story behind the song's inclusion in the audio?"
Hi Cory!
I was so excited to be able to use that song. (And for those who got a pdf or paperback: scan the QR code at the end and you can download the song from a "secret" page on the book's website.
When the audio rights were picked up I knew I wanted to find a song to go with it, something that could help set the mood and something that would fit with the topic, etc. Not a small order, but my first thought was about my friends in Mutts, a band out of Chicago. I've know the pianist/singer for years and so I started relistening to their albums. I knew as soon as the intro to "Uninvited" got going that it was the perfect tone, but also the lyrics fit the book in an odd way as well. Even though the song is actually about feeling excluded from the church for being gay, I think it can be heard and interpreted in other ways, that's the mastery of the lyrics.
I really enjoyed the way Winterswim was told. It was refreshing to have the mystery of the book focus on learning about the murderer's psyche and the reasons behind his twisted acts, rather than having the mystery be about discovering who was committing the crimes. This definitely made the book more interesting to read.
Amie wrote: "I see that most of the questions I had considered asking have already been asked and answered. (Great minds think alike, right?) However, I did have one quick question about the Tlingit mythology in the book. Is this an actual Tlingit myth or did you change it all to fit in with the storyline?
Also, have you ever considered writing a noir novel or novella set in the past and taking place within a Tlingit tribe setting? If so, that would be something I would be very interested in reading.
Thanks very much for providing me with a copy of WINTERSWIM. It is much appreciated and I will be posting my review shortly."
We've gotten pretty in-depth right off the bat!
The myth of Gonaqadet is definitely a real myth. It's not 100% accurate in the book, because Pastor Long has bastardized his mythology and religion to suit his own purpose, but on the fundamental level it's pretty much a distilled take from the original tales.
I have some links bookmarked on my laptop at home (I'm at the day job currently) and I'll post them here this evening for anyone who is interested.
As far as your second question, I think that would be cool, but I'm not sure I could do justice to their culture in that sort of depth. Maybe at some point when I am able to do more intensive research. I have a lot of ideas for future books, but so little time to write currently.
A great novel that takes place in Alaska and deals with some native themes as well as noir is Michael Chabon's The Yiddish Policemen's Union.
There is also a series (more mass-market style fiction) that has an Alaskan native detective, etc. I have not read them so I can't vouch for quality, but the author's name is Dana Stabenow. There's also M.J. McGrath's Edie Kiglatuk mysteries, but I haven't yet read those, either.
Ray wrote: "Where did you get context that informed your descriptions of the drug lifestyle in the book?"Well, I did a lot of drugs in my early 20s. Meth was the one drug I never tried, but I know people who are former meth addicts, so they came in handy. So I guess personal experience and friends. :)
Demetra wrote: "Ryan,Thank you for the ebook! I don't have any questions, but I do want to share my experience with Winterswim. Honestly, it was a hard book for me to read. I have a history of sexual abuse and I ..."
Hi Demetra, thank you for sharing your experience and feeling comfortable doing so. I'm sorry the book made for an uncomfortable read, though I completely understand. I appreciate that you stuck with it in spite of that and joined us here.
This is another one of those things I'm always cognizant of after writing a story, because I tend to write about difficult things, and they often make me uncomfortable while writing them. I know there will be readers who have that experience as well.
I had an experience akin to this when I watched the film The Silver Linings Playbook. I ended up writing an essay about it because it brought up a lot of hard memories about my early struggles with bipolar disorder.
Art can be a powerful thing, and I guess we want it to challenge us in some way, but some of those challenges are just too much.
Rosanna wrote: "I really enjoyed the way Winterswim was told. It was refreshing to have the mystery of the book focus on learning about the murderer's psyche and the reasons behind his twisted acts, rather than having the mystery be about discovering who was committing the crimes. This definitely made the book more interesting to read."Thanks, Rosanna!
While I enjoy some straight-up mysteries, it's definitely the people and their psychology that interests me most as a writer. Essentially that makes the book less of an actual mystery, and that can make it hard to find a publisher. I finished a novel a couple years ago that is told in a similar way, though less outright about who the killer is it's still pretty obvious and revolves more around the tension between the characters. Shortly after I finished it I parted ways with my agent and every agent who has read it since has said that they can't sell it because it's not a mystery if people know who the killer is.
A lot of people want their mystery to be exactly that, but I'm glad to know there are readers who feel the way I do about it.
Great questions so far guys!
Ryan, rather than wait till the end of the discussion, I thought I'd throw out that one question that always follows a new release......
What's next on the table for you? Are you currently working on another manuscript?
Ryan, rather than wait till the end of the discussion, I thought I'd throw out that one question that always follows a new release......
What's next on the table for you? Are you currently working on another manuscript?
Thanks for the answers so far. I love asking people, (and especially writers) this question: For you, what makes a book great?
SECOND EDIT: Oh my gosh, so many mistakes.I thought about this yesterday, in the middle of the night, but I was supposed to go to sleep and assumed everyone else was.
About the noir genre in general, what do you think really represents this genre, tropes and no tropes. Because one of the first noirs I remember reading didn't really have all of the traits I see in noir, especially in the small press area and the pulp novels, where it seems like most of them are focused on the drugs, sex, violence, and all of that Requiem for a Dream and the recent Inherent Vice movie stuff (I'm aware of the novel, haven't read it yet). That novel I'm talking about is Your Republic Is Calling You by Young- Ha Kim, it's about a North Korean spy who is suddenly called to come back and has to leave his South Korean life, and the whole mystery of it is why does he need to go back and then the literary aspect comes in when it observes his past through his flashbacks. It's quite similar to Murakami without the magic. It's one of the first that was labeled noir that I have read. So yeah, well, somebody already asked something similar. But what exactly makes a novel a noir?
Lori wrote: "What's next on the table for you? Are you currently working on another manuscript?"Oh man. Honestly I haven't written much in the last couple years. I do have some manuscripts still sitting around, and there will be an announcement in February about the next book.
I have several ideas I want to work on, if I get the time. I wrote a couple chapters the other day in a thing about a retired carnival side show living as a commune in the middle of the woods in Alaska.
Whether or not I finish anything is always the million dollar question.
Hosho wrote: "Thanks for the answers so far. I love asking people, (and especially writers) this question: For you, what makes a book great?"
That's a tricky question, because it's probably different for every book. And sometimes it's ethereal, un-analyzable, like falling in love.
Right now I'm finishing up Porochista Khakpour's The Last Illusion and it has knocked my socks off, but it's quite different from most of what I read these days.
I want a story that I get wrapped up in, but for that to happen it has to be written in a way that holds my attention, too. For instance everybody loved Jonathan Franzen's Freedom and I found it insanely boring. I find the older I get the less patience I have for books that need to be edited further. I think very few books actually need to be over 300 pages, and if they are longer than that it's rare that there isn't some feeling of it being gratuitous. My top five books of all time are all under 300 pages. Probably under 250. (I'd have to check).
I guess that doesn't really answer the question, or maybe answers the reverse question more.
Lixian wrote: "About the noir genre in general, what do you think really represents this genre, tropes and no tropes. Because one of the first noirs I remember reading didn't really have all of the traits I see in noir, especially in the small press area and the pulp novels, where it seems like most of them are focused on the drugs, sex, violence, and all of that Requiem for a Dream and the recent Inherent Vice movie stuff (I'm aware of the novel, haven't read it yet). That novel I'm talking about is Your Republic Is Calling You by Young- Ha Kim, it's about a North Korean spy who is suddenly called to come back and has to leave his South Korean life, and the whole mystery of it is why does he need to go back and then the literary aspect comes in when it observes his past through his flashbacks. It's quite similar to Murakami without the magic. It's one of the first that was labeled noir that I have read. So yeah, well, somebody already asked something similar. But what exactly makes a novel a noir?"It's hard to pin down what quantifies something as being part of a particular genre. Noir used to be pretty definable, but I think it has evolved over time. And there are so many intersections. For instance, I just read a bit about Your Republic Is Calling You, and it seems to me more of a spy thriller, and I wouldn't classify Requiem for a Dream as noir, either, but again, people do.
What I look at in terms of noir isn't about tropes, but more of the feeling, which makes it even more esoteric. I think you can have noir that is about anything, a magician getting lost in Siberia, if the mood is right. If there's a darkness to it, a certain vibe to the way it's presented to the reader. I think this is why noir has developed its own subsets, like I refer to blue collar noir. If you read the wikipedia page on noir fiction, for instance, nothing we've talked about would really fit into their definition, but just the way other genres have evolved to include offshoots, noir is doing that, too.
I have a friend, a great writer, Robert Arellano who has written everything from straight up noir about private detectives, etc. to more modern noir that is focused on paranoia and psychological issues. He teaches a class in noir and I might have to ask him how he would define the genre.
I like to use the term because I think it's a good way to express the mood of what I write, and I like it better than "transgressive" which I think is a silly term.
Books mentioned in this topic
Tussinland (other topics)Your Republic Is Calling You (other topics)
Winterswim (other topics)





Ryan has given us a total of 12 copies to give away (a mix of print, digital PDF, and audio).
Print is for US residents only. The Digital and Audio is open to everyone!
In order to be considered, you must comment here or on the blog for a shot at winning one and secure a spot in the discussion that kicks off on January 19th:
http://thenextbestbookblog.blogspot.c...
This giveaway will run through December 8th.
Winners will be announced here and via email (if you provide one) on December 9th.
Here's how to enter:
1 - Leave a comment here or in the giveaway thread over at TNBBC's blog (linked above), stating why you'd like to receive a copy of the book, what format you prefer, and where you reside remember, REMEMBER only US residents can win a paper copy!.
ONLY COMMENT ONCE. MULTIPLE COMMENTS DO NOT GAIN YOU ADDITIONAL CHANCES TO WIN.
2 - State that you agree to participate in the group read book discussion that will run from January 19th through January 25th. Ryan has agreed to participate in the discussion and will be available to answer any questions you may have for him.
*If you are chosen as a winner, by accepting the copy you are agreeing to read the book and join the group discussion right here in this thread next month.
3 - If your goodreads profile is blocked (set on private), please leave me another way to contact you.