The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

In this section, we learn of the Great Railway Project that Paul Montague's company is planning to float, and we get a glimpse of the workings of the business and investment world. What is Trollope telling his readers about the world of speculation and investments?

We learn more about a number of our characters, and our expectations from the opening section are mainly confirmed: Melmotte is likely a swindler of very unclear background, Marie is likely not her mother's daughter, Felix Carbury is a bad lot, Lady Carbury is ruthless in her determination to win all for her son and Roger Carbury is an honest, dependable and honourable man. Were there any surprises about any of the characters so far?

The final chapter of this section brings forward some interesting commentary on the religious life of the day-the Bishop who in all things is a good and caring man, except that he seems unmoved by his actual religion, and the impoverished Roman Catholic priest who is zealous in his attempts to convert others, even planning to make the attempt on the Bishop's wife.

I had several "favourite" passages that I will add later-are you enjoying Trollope's style so far in this novel?

I'm definitely enjoying this so far, but I can't put my finger on exactly how it differs from some of the other Trollope novels.

I don't like book spoilers, but I do like reading about any historical data/events/figures that might be relevant to the plot, so I did some Googling about the railroads. I found out that (view spoiler)[ shortly before this book was published, there was a railroad built from Mexico City to Veracruz - by a British company. But I didn't find anything about a railroad from Salt Lake City to Mexico from that time. Of course, the novel doesn't have to follow historical events, but I thought it was interesting. (hide spoiler)] I also found an article about the financial speculations in The Way We Live Now, that the book was before its time in that respect. I didn't read it in detail because there were spoilers in it, but I'll look it up after we finish the book.

Henrietta is paying a lot of attention to Roger. I predict she will end up falling in love with him. Right now she seems to prefer Paul, but does she actually love him yet?

What I am finding is that many, if not most, of the characters operate from a stand of the ends justifying the means. Certainly we’ve seen it with Lady Carbury and her determination that Felix should marry well. Also, the editors of the periodicals, except for Alf, who publish favorable reviews of Lady Carbury’s book because they need a favor in return. Melmotte of course. But also all those, such as Adolphus Longestaffe, who socialize with Melmotte, despite the rumors, because of his wealth and what he might do for them.

Roger does represent the honorable and ethical. He refuses to socialize with the Melmottes and doesn’t agree that Felix should marry Marie. He believes in a certain code of conduct for gentlemen which seems to indicate a favorable opinion for this “old” way as opposed to a more modern focus on advancing oneself socially and economically without much regard for honor. I still do not like his endless pursuit of Henrietta. Although I do agree that she is beginning to change her mind about him as she observes him during the party and looks for ways to elevate her opinion about him.

All the men who agree to become directors of the railroad must realize they are involved in a scheme to make money and not a reputable enterprise to raise money to build a railroad. The book does take place after the Transcontinental Railroad in the the United States was completed and which changed the country in so many ways as it linked 3000 miles of east to west.

I feel sorry for Paul who seems totally out of his depth being manipulated by Fisker.

I’m finding several similarities between Lady Carbury and Melmotte. Both are social outsiders. Lady Carbury being born poor and achieving status only through marriage, but with a tarnished reputation after her husband’s abuse forced her to leave him. Melmotte with so many rumors about his past, but not an English gentleman by any means. Both are willing to do whatever it takes to achieve their objectives with deception and manipulation integral elements. And both want a good marriage for their children- money for Felix and a proper social position for Marie.

Good point! I hadn't noticed the similarities between Lady Carbury and Melmotte before, but it's true. I bet Lady Carbury wouldn't like to hear that! :-D

We also saw Nora Rowley trying to make herself love Mr. Glascock and not succeeding in He Knew He Was Right. I'm not sure if Trollope will follow his formula here or make Henrietta's ending different (the two women have very different temperaments).

Yes, it generally seems that young women are meant to stick to their original love (with the exception of Can You Forgive Her? of course) however so far Paul seems a little suspect in his financial dealings and Roger Carbury seems a good man who truly cares for Henrietta.

Frances wrote: "so far Paul seems a little suspect in his financial dealings and Roger Carbury seems a good man who truly cares for Henrietta...."

It seems that Paul is not a very strong-minded man. Even though he dislikes and distrusts Fisker (probably with good reason) he "found himself agreeing with any project which Mr. Fisker might have in hand", telling himself he has no alternative. Signing up to the railway gives him an enjoyable feeling of importance which he allows to over-ride his deep concerns. One feels that Roger would have nothing to do with such a project, but would condemn it outright.

I don't feel a huge amount of sympathy for Paul, but I do for Marie, who is being vied for as "the great Marie Melmotte plate," as if she were a horse-race, poor thing.

I find that Roger is the only likable character so far. I feel sorry for Paul, he is potentially a good person but he is too weak and easily lead astray. I have hopes for Henrietta, if she can live and grow far from her mother and her brother.
The never-do-well son adored by his mother is rather frequent in novels, I am thinking about John Reed in Jane Eyre.
So far I am enjoying this book!

Daniela wrote: "The never-do-well son adored by his mother is rather frequent in novels, I am thinking about John Reed in Jane Eyre...."

I like the comparison between John Reed and Felix. It also made me think of Persuasion and another ne'er-do-well adored by his mother: "the Musgroves had had the ill fortune of a very troublesome, hopeless son; and the good fortune to lose him before he reached his twentieth year"...

However, Richard Musgrave didn't hang around to ruin his family, while Felix is now 25 with no sign of improvement. Although he's a despicable character I am finding him rather enjoyable to read about, perhaps because the portrayal of his selfish over-confidence is so convincing.

Adria wrote: "Trollope writes so eloquently of selfishness, self-serving behavior, of self-absorbed characters."

Agreed, and it is generally a nuanced portrait, although Felix seems to be a rotter through and through.

One of the things I like best about Trollope is his ability to create characters with nuance. We see characters devolving into negative behavior, perhaps have empathy for their psychological struggles or there are at least some good qualities to counterbalance. Real people, not stereotypes. With Felix so far I find absolutely nothing positive in his character or resulting behavior. So a real outlier for me in Trollope characters. Perhaps he will redeem himself later in the novel?

Curious how Father Barham will turn out. Do we respect his sincerity or find him a bit of a fanatic?

So far Felix is a complete rotter and Lady Carbury is not much better, or maybe she's even worse?
I like the way that Hetta is starting to think for herself and only going to dine with the Melmotte's out of duty to her mother. Hetta is also learning to see the true characters of her family members.
Right now, Father Barnham is still an idealist.

I don't like Paul's weakness. He doesn't know how to stand up for himself. As probably the most honest person in the company, he will probably pay the heaviest price when the truth is discovered-that the whole thing is crooked.

Rosemarie wrote: "So far Felix is a complete rotter and Lady Carbury is not much better, or maybe she's even worse?"

1) Lady C. could be worse because she has potential to know better and doesn't exercise it. However, unlike Felix, some of her faults are on Felix behalf while all Felix's fault are self-centered. Thus, so far, Lady C. exhibits a potential for redemption that Felix lacks. The most irritating part for her is how she expects Hetta to sacrifice herself for the spoiled young prince Felix too.
2) I've read and watched the TV series of the book before and while I remember some of the plot, but not the specific romance plot lines at all. As to Hetta's choice in beaus, the TV series had Cillian Murphy playing Paul so its hard to believe Hetta could resist his piercing blue eyes and choose the stodgy Roger as played by a well-cast Douglas Hodge.
3) I have found the first 16 chapters to be a fairly long and unmomentous set-up.

Brian wrote: "the TV series had Cillian Murphy playing Paul"

I'll have to see that! Cillian Murphy is not at all how I'd pictured Paul, though.

Lori wrote: "I'll have to see that! Cillian Murphy is not at all how I'd pictured Paul, though."

For those who wish to see how they were portrayed in the miniseries:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/M...
Cillian Murphy as Paul
Douglas Hodge as Roger
Paloma Baeza as Henrietta

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/M...
The Carburys
Paloma as Hetta
Cheryl Campbell as Lady C
Matthew Macfadyen as Felix (he later played Darcy in the Keira Knightley P & P)

Paul and Hetta dancing: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/M...

David Suchet as Melmotte: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/M...

Shirley Henderson as his daughter: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/M...

The only one who looks the way I pictured him is Melmotte; the others I pictured very differently. I'll have to see it, though.

Actually, Lady Carbury's appearance is not far off either; just I didn't picture her hair that way.

Wow, I found that casting really fit with how I'd imagined the characters, although as a big fan of Suchet's Poirot I would have found it a bit distracting. Thanks for finding all those links, Brian.

Frances wrote: "as a big fan of Suchet's Poirot I would have found it a bit distracting."

Yes, after spending hours and hours of living with an actor as one type of character it takes a bit to readjust your impressions when seeing him and listening to him as another type. Suchet got much kudos for his Poirot portrayal, but I didn't watch the shows so had no need to adjust.
My memory is that Suchet was an impressively good fit for Melmotte.

Brian wrote: "My memory is that Suchet was an impressively good fit for Melmotte.
."

Yes, he looks very suitable for the part, and I will try to track down this video after finishing the book.

Actually, Cillian Murphy looks almost exactly how I'd pictured Paul. The others aren't an exact match, but not that far off.

I seem to be the only person here who likes Paul. I agree he has weaknesses but he doesn't seem like a bad or mean person. Roger has some good qualities but some of his behavior towards Hetta smacks of Nice Guy (TM).

I like Paul too but I just wish he would learn to stand up for himself a bit more.

Yes, it would certainly be better than his letting Fisker drag him about.