The Old Curiosity Club discussion

My Fellow Curiosities


Dickens novels are large ponderous texts. I have no idea how to cover any chapter fully, or how to cover any chapter to everyone’s satisfaction. Facing that reality, I try to boil each chapter down to a few points of plot and what I hope are interesting observations. I then attempt to identify interesting elements of plot and structure that we can follow throughout the entire text.

Intermingled with my commentary I include what I variously call Questions, Thoughts, and Reflections. They are, in no way, compulsory. I encourage everyone to think, to discover, and to share their own thoughts with the group.

Peter

Chapter 1


We now move forward to Dombey and Son. The novel marks another step in Dickens’s development as an author. In this novel, Dickens focused more on the preparation of the story than he did in earlier novels. The novel was written between 1846 and 1848 when England was in the midst of the expansion of the railway to all parts of the country. Dombey and Son is one of the novels that Dickens wrote which finds itself set in the exact time of its writing.

In this first chapter Dickens takes us to the door of a room where a woman is giving birth. If we think about it this is quite unique for its time. Many Victorian novels feature children, but far fewer feature new-born babies. To be just outside the birthing room was actually a very rare event, almost unheard of, in a Victorian novel. In Hardy’s Tess of the D’Ubervilles the reader sees Tess with her very young child. Can you recall any others?

The novel begins with the sentence “Dombey sat in the corner of the darkened room in the great armchair by the bedside, and Son lay tucked up in a warm little basket bedstead ... .” Let’s look at this first sentence. In it, we find the apparent reason for the title “Dombey and Son.” We see Dombey sitting in a “great armchair” but nowhere in the first paragraph do we have a mention of his wife. As we read through the novel keep an eye open for the number of times Dombey is seated in a throne-like chair. He does like to sit down in the novel. Over time, this position may well become symbolic. We need to follow what Sickens says and Browne illustrates. We also learn that Mr Dombey is 48 year’s old and his son about 48 minutes.

In this novel, unlike Dickens’s earlier novels, you will notice a much greater precision and attention to time. The novel will span many years, but in this novel the reader will be able to track the movement through time with great accuracy. Hablot Browne will also reflect the idea of time in different ways in the iconography of several illustrations. The idea of time and the passage of time will constantly be present in the plot, the symbolism, and the themes and motifs of the novel. As you will notice in your reading of chapter one Mr. Dombey spends much time jiggling his “heavy gold watch-chain.”

So who are the characters that we meet in this first chapter?

First, Mr Dombey. He is a man “too stern and pompous in appearance.” Most telling perhaps is that Dickens tells us that, in Dombey’s mind, “the earth was made for Dombey and Son to trade in, and the sun and moon were made to give them light. Rivers and seas were formed to float their ships ... [and] stars and planets circled in their orbits, to preserve inviolate a system which they were the centre.” Later we read that “Dombey and Son had often dealt in hides, but never in hearts.” Little boy baby Paul “has to accomplish a destiny.” Hmmm. Not much pressure there for a boy 48 minutes old.

Mrs Dombey, we are told, “must have been happy. That she couldn’t help it.” Do you feel the irony of this phrase? She had been married to Dombey for 10 years and had produced one daughter six years ago. We are told that this child, being a girl, was “not worth mentioning.” This girl’s name is Florence. There is evidently much love between Mrs Dombey and her daughter, a fact that Mr Dombey seems to find a touch unsettling if he noticed it at all.

Our next character is Mr Dombey’s sister, Louisa Dombey Chick. She is middle-aged, and dresses in “a very juvenile manner.” She knows how to compliment and flatter her brother and tells him that his ailing wife Fanny is “required ... as a duty” to get well.

Miss Tox is a friend of Louisa. She is lean and has a “faded air” and appears to be “washed out.” She is, as Dickens observes, a lady of limited independence, which she turned to the best account.” Miss Tox is beside herself with joy at meeting Mr Dombey. Louisa seems rather interested in singing Miss Tox’s praises to her brother.

Louisa is determined that Fanny Dombey not die. She tells her that she will “be quite cross with you” and later comments “Come! Try! I must really scold you if you don’t.” Nothing further can be said or done. Florence cries out “Mama!” This creates a slight response from her mother. Florence calls out again “Mama! ... Oh dear Mama! Oh dear Mama!” Too late. Mrs Dombey “clinging fast to that slight spar within her arms ... drifted out upon the dark and unknown sea that rolls found all the world.”

And so ends our first chapter. In this chapter we find a narrative format which will frame the entire novel. The chapter begins with a birth of a child, a son for Mr Dombey. Dombey is determined that his newborn son will complete his father’s dream for the firm of Dombey and Son to truly reflect that name. The chapter ends with a death, with Mr Dombey’s daughter clinging to her mother as she dies. Mr Dombey’s focus and concern is for his son, not his daughter, or candidly, his wife either.

At the end of this chapter there is one final image which will become central to the novel. We are told that as Mrs Dombey passes she clung fast “to that slight spar in her arms” before she drifted “out upon the dark and unknown sea that rolls round all the world.” Ah, The sea, water, world travel. These early introduced threads will become central cores to our study of the novel.


Thoughts

What are your first impressions of a character or characters introduced in this, our first chapter of the novel? What word or phrase would you apply to these characters? Why?

The chapter begins with a birth and ends with a death. How might this early narrative structure suggest what will come in the novel?

Mr Dombey is solidly focussed on creating the greatness of the firm of Dombey and Son. To what degree do you think he represents the emerging 19C middle class in England? What flaws could such a focus create in a family? In society? What advantages of such an entrepreneurial spirit were positive during the times?

Early in the novel we see a focus on time, on watches, and on a person’s age. Why might this be of importance and helpful as we progress through the novel?

Chapter Two


We begin with a peek at Mrs Chick’s personality and character. She mentions at the beginning of this chapter that she “forgave poor dear Fanny everything. Whatever happens, that must always be a comfort to me!” I seem to recall her speaking a bit more assertively to Fanny on her deathbed in the previous chapter. There is a Mr Chick but at this point of the novel he is more of a shadow than a fleshed out character. Perhaps he will assert himself later.

The concern of the Chick’s is that little Paul needs a wet nurse, and there is trouble finding one that will suit the family. Miss Tox comes to the rescue with a recommendation and soon an entire family of wholesome apple-faced people by the name Toodle arrive at Dombey’s door. The family are clean living, all the children in perfect health, and live with the wife’s unmarried sister Jemima. The husband is a stoker on a steam engine. We learn that Dombey has been concerned about the state of Dombey and Son should his young son not grow into being a healthy child. Dombey finds Mrs Toodle as acceptable as a wet-nurse but imposes two conditions. First, Dombey wishes Mrs Toodle to be known by the name Richards. The second condition is that the hire will be a strictly business arrangement and Mr Dombey wishes to see as little of her family as possible during her employment. In conversation with Mr Toodle Mr Dombey learns that Toodle is basically illiterate but hopes to learn to read and write when his eldest son goes to school. Dombey learns that the Toodle boy is named after a steam engine’s boiler. To Dombey the name sounds more like Biler. After some reflection and thought, Dombey feels secure in his hopes for a grand future of Dombey and Son.

Miss Tox makes the arrangements for Mrs Toodle - now Richards - and assures her that she will have the best of everything. With a telling phrase Miss Tox comments to Louisa that Richards will consider it a privilege to see young Paul Dombey and thus be “connected with the superior classes.” With sadness but love and encouragement Richards parts with her husband, sister, and children.


Thoughts

I’m always interested in what a change in one’s name might signify. Mrs Toodle has been renamed Richards by Dombey. Why do you think Dombey took this action? What might the name change signify?

The parting of Mrs Toodle from her husband, children, and sister is only briefly described but I think it is important to contrast it with the death of Fanny Dombey. In what ways are these partings different? What does it reveal about the people involved?

Dombey took much pride in naming his son Paul so he would fit into the firm’s name of Dombey and Son. To Dombey, the name of his son made perfect sense. Dombey cannot, however, understand why Mr. Toodle’s son would be named after a steam-engine’s boiler. Is there, in fact, any significant difference in the naming of the son’s by their fathers? What might Dickens be implying by juxtaposing the motives of naming children in this chapter?


The Toodle family are given a few oranges and halfpence and summarily escorted from the Dombey home. On the way home the children dropped the oranges and halfpence out the window of the carriage. Is this children being children or could their be a more symbolic and significant meaning to the way this chapter ends?

Chapter 3

The chapter begins with an un-Gamp like reflection on the death of Mrs Dombey and then switches to a detailed description of the Dombey house. We are told the house was large and in a “dismal state.” On the property are “two giant trees, with blackened trunks and branches ... . The summer sun was never on the street, but in the morning about breakfast-time.” The lamp-lighter makes a nightly failure in attempting to brighten up the street with gas. The house was, therefore much like Mr Dombey himself. Dombey had the furniture covered up after the funeral. All in all, it was a ghastly place to behold. Dombey himself inhabited a small part of the house where he had Richards walk to and fro with Paul as he peered at them from the shadows, or, more accurately as Dickens observes, Dombey “remained a very shade.” All rather Kafka-like. Whenever little Paul went outside for some air with Richards he was accompanied by Mrs Chick and Miss Tox. A toxic pair of chaperones for Paul and Richards I’d say.

One day Florence and Richards meet and Florence wants to know where her mother is. What follows is a series of short paragraphs that highlight the kindness and sensitivity of Richards. It is evident that Dickens wishes to make it quite clear that Mrs Chick and Miss Tox are cold, selfish individuals while Richards shows a perfect balance of love and sympathy for Florence. Dickens’s reinforcement of these ladies different characteristics may be significant going forward.

We are introduced to a new character who goes by the nickname Spitfire. This is Susan Nipper who is Florence's 14 year old woman-girl companion. Susan Nipper tells Richards that “girls are thrown away in this house ... I assure you.”we learn that while Dombey has seen Polly Richards parade Paul around in the gloom for Dombey to see, Dombey has never seen his daughter Florence since the death of her mother and hardly ever set his eyes on her before the death of Mrs Dombey. In a moment of candour Susan comments that she wouldn’t be surprised if Dombey does not even know of her existence. Susan Nipper and Richards agree to attempt to meet again. Thus both Nipper and Richards will aid each other in lifting some of the gloom of the household and their meeting would facilitate Florence seeing her brother which is a win - win situation for Paul and Florence.


Thoughts

In this chapter Dickens is subtly drawing the lines of character support and opposition. Susan Nipper and Richards hope to see each other again for mutual support and companionship. The contradictory pair to these two servants is Mrs Chick and Miss Tox who are aligned with Mr Dombey. Here we have the line of servants versus upper class being drawn. Why might it be important to Dickens to create these class divisions so early in the novel? What problems could well occur between these two groups of women?


Polly’s heart is touched with thoughts of Florence. We are told that with Florence, “the motherless little girl, her own motherly heart had been touched no less than the child’s.” Dickens then goes on to praise Polly as a “sober steady-working person [with] ... a nature that is ever, in the mass, better, truer, higher, nobler, quicker to feel, and much more constant to retain, all tenderness and pity, self-denial and devotion, than the nature of men.” This is quite the endorsement of Polly, and it points the reader in a very important direction. Polly is everything that Mr Dombey, his sister and Miss Rox are not. Polly, as a representative of the working class, has a love for her occupation that goes beyond mere monetary profit without consideration for a person’s heart. This distinction will be echoed many times as we read forward in the novel. It is a concept to keep tightly in our minds. Dombey is described as “austere” and “stiff.” Dickens is very clear as to his thoughts of these two characters.

Richards convinces Dombey that it would be in the best interest of Paul to see other children and to play with them. With this suggestion Dombey relents and directs that Florence can be in the company of Paul “when Richards wishes it.” Thus, Richards has been able to bring Florence and Paul together, an action that will have important lasting consequences in the novel. Ah, but no more spoilers for now. :-) Dombey’s adversity to his daughter is overcome by the desire to pamper and please his son. Dombey’s flaw as a parent is clearly presented in this chapter. We read that when Florence was with her brother “she sported and played about her baby brother ... her manner was seldom so winning and so pretty.” It is evident that Paul responds to his sister and he was “all the livelier for his sister’s company.” For all the love Florence has for her brother she is perfectly aware of her father’s feelings towards her and tells Richards “He don’t want me. He don’t want me!”

The chapter ends with Miss Nipper being less than thrilled that this new arrangement exists. Still, I feel she is still a touch pleased that whatever would make Florence happy would also please her. We shall see.


Thoughts

Richards has managed to bring Paul and Florence into contact with each other. How might this create both conflict and contentment in the future plot?

More and more it seems that Dickens favours the character of Richards. Why might this be so? What complications could occur in the future because of Richards character?

Have you found anything worthy of a compliment towards Mr Dombey? If so, what? If not, why not?

Chapter 4

The firm of Dombey and Son deals with trade, and as such its offices are near the Thames. Also near the docks is found a nautical supplies store with a natty wooden Midshipman in front of the store as its signage. In this store can be found for sale “chronometers, barometers, telescopes, compasses, charts, maps, sextants, quadrants, and specimens of every kind of instrument used in the working of a ship’s course, or the keeping of a ship’s reckoning, or the prosecuting of a ship’s discovery.” Jammed everywhere in the store are objects of use for the seafaring person. The store’s instrument maker’s name was Sol Gills. He was “a slow quiet-spoken, thoughtful old fellow, with eyes as red as if they had been small suns looking at you through a fog.” His nephew Walter, a lad of 14, lives with him.

I mentioned earlier how Dombey and Son has great precision and concern with time and age. We see another instance when Dickens writes “It is half-past five o’clock, and an autumn afternoon, when the reader and Solomon Gills become acquainted.”Sol Gills checks the time on his “unimpeachable chronometer.” Soon, his nephew Walter arrives. Walter is described as “[a] cheerful looking, Merry boy, fresh with running home in the rain; fair-faced, bright-eyed, and curly haired.” With this description I’ll bet Walter will be well-favoured in the novel. There is clearly much love between uncle Sol and Walter.

We learn that Walter has just become employed at the firm of Dombey and Son. In fact, it was his first day on the job. Through Walter, we get to see the inner workings and organization of the firm of Dombey and Son. We learn that the firm is a “precious dark set of offices and there are desks, charts stools and books about. There is also many cobwebs and in one of them there is “a shrivelled-up blue bottle that looks as if it had hung there ever so long.” We learn that the firm seems to have lots of business and men by the name of Mr Carker and Mr Morfin look after the books and the office. We learn that it was through Sol that Walter got his position with Dombey’s firm. To celebrate Walter’s new job Uncle Sol goes to the basement and gets a special bottle of Madeira to toast the day. Walter notes that there is only one more bottle of this special wine left, to which Sol responds that it will be opened when Walter comes into good fortune and the start in life Walter made today finally comes to its fruition.

At this point, Uncle Sol confesses to Walter that his business is faltering and that “there is nothing doing, nothing doing.” The old ways are gone and now “competition, competition - new invention, new invention - alteration, alteration - the world’s gone past me. I hardly know where I am myself, much less where my customers are.” After this bit of rather depressing news Uncle Sol and Walter cheer each other up by exchanging stories of sailors and sailing. They recall how the Madeira they drink has travelled around the world. It is evident that the sea stories they share are well-remembered and repeated; they give both Sol and Walter comfort.

Another man makes an appearance to this little party. He has a hook for a right hand. As Dickens notes he “was a very salty-looking man indeed.” This new character is Captain Cuttle. When Sol pours him a drink Cuttle recognizes it as the special Madeira. Did you notice that Captain Cuttle comments that Sol “could make a clock if he tried” to which Walter replies “l shouldn’t wonder.” We learn that Captain Cuttle has been eating dinner at the wooden Midshipman for 10 years. Did you notice how Dickens weaves the phrase “a sadder and a wiser man” into the narrative when profiling Captain Cuttle? This is the second last line of Samuel Coleridge’s “Rime of the Ancient Mariner.” References to the sea and sailing will continue to appear in the novel. Dickens will build upon these references. Important motifs and themes connected to the sea and sailing will greatly help in binding the narrative together.

Sol Gill insists the three of them finish the bottle of Madeira and muses that one day the house of Dombey and Son may be Walters and reminds the others that Dick Whittington married his master’s daughter. Walter confirms that Dombey does have a daughter and that Dombey pays her little attention and gives her no love. And so, as our chapter comes to a close the three men finish off the Madeira with a toast to “Dombey - and Son - and Daughter.”


Thoughts


There is much ocean salt in the air of this chapter as the sea makes its first major appearance in the novel. Do you remember, however, how the death of Mrs Dombey in the end of chapter one was linked to the sea as well? I think it would be interesting to note and follow the connections, references, and ongoing images of the sea in this novel. First let's look at the wooden Midshipman. What is your first impression of this place? Of Solomon Gills? In general terms, what success is the wooden Midshipman enjoying? Why is this so?

The concept of time and the recording of time is seen again in this chapter. What reasons and motives might Dickens have for noting the importance of time?

So far in the novel our focus has been on Dombey and his home. In this chapter we meet three new characters - Solomon Gills, his nephew Walter, and Captain Cuttle. What is your first impressions of them? What is your impression of the wooden Midshipman as a home?

Sol Gills believes he is a part of a world that has passed. Who or what else has been portrayed as being linked more to the past than the future? What could this link suggest?

On the one hand we read about the past. We also have been introduced to the world of the Victorian railroad which is a harbinger of the future. It might be interesting to watch how Dickens compares and contrasts the past to the future in this novel as a motif and theme.

Chapter 1

My first impression is that the Dombeys are a highly dysfunctional family, and the kids are in for much heartache and struggle. The father is cold, distant, and wants live vicariously through his son. The mother and daughter are undervalued. The aunt, Mrs Chick, seems to be an enabler of the "Tox" (toxic) environment. I felt especially bad for Florence, because her mom died, and nobody else loves her. Sad beginning, indeed.

Chapter 2

More coldness from Dombey. He'll hire Toodle, but only if she's renamed and doesn't bond with the baby (or even her own kids) during the job. I like how Toodle asked for extra compensation to be called Richards, and got it. Good for her, lol. Regarding the name "Richards," I thought maybe Dombey, in his misogyny, wanted to masculize her to make her good enough for the family.

I thought the Toodles dumping their oranges and halfpence was a waste of a good gift. But, perhaps it's a statement that the Toodle kids don't need Mr. Dombey to thrive--but Paul needs Mrs. Toodles. The chapter mentioned Dombey's pride and him feeling embarrassed about "needing" a lower class woman to help out.

Chapter 3

I'm glad that Richards befriended Florence. Florence needs a friend! Also glad that Florence and Paul can play together. I worried about rivalry between them, but it seems like they're going to be friends. Richards is portrayed as a kind, sympathetic person. Her explanation of death was both sensitive and appropriate for the Victorian era.

"Girls are thrown away in this house." Whoa, this line stood out as stark, but accurate, of the Dombey family.

Have you found anything worthy of a compliment towards Mr Dombey?

So far, no. But in his defense, he seems well-meaning. I don't get the impression that he wants to hurt anyone, but his skewed thinking causes him to.

Chapter 4

It's refreshing to see some warmer characters enter the scene! Walter and Sol are interesting, likeable characters. I like that they have a good relationship. I got the impression that Dickens is setting the stage for romance between Walter and Florence...the way Walter mentioned her and included her in the toast. The toast to "Dombey --and Son --and Daughter" seemed symbolic, maybe even prophetic of Florence being elevated to higher status someday.

In regard to the first question about being outside the birthing room, I must admit a sense of immediate foreboding about the well-being of the mother. It would seem to me that novels of that era usually did not have things go well for the mother.

Alissa wrote: "Chapter 1

My first impression is that the Dombeys are a highly dysfunctional family, and the kids are in for much heartache and struggle. The father is cold, distant, and wants live vicariously th..."

Alissa

What a great insight of yours that Dickens wanted to change Mrs Toodle’s name to Richards in order to make it more masculine. As to her children, while I’m sure they will miss their mother, I totally agree with you that they don’t need Dombey to survive but Paul does need their mother to survive.

The Dombey house’s opulent frigidity is a great contrast to the snug warmth of the wooden Midshipman. Once again the physical structures in which the characters live are very revealing.

John wrote: "In regard to the first question about being outside the birthing room, I must admit a sense of immediate foreboding about the well-being of the mother. It would seem to me that novels of that era u..."

Hi John

Yes. Mothers, especially those who have very young babies, are difficult to find in Victorian literature. As you note, generally things do not seem to go well for them.

I thought the name change would be to obscure how Dombey needed a lower class woman to care for his son, by giving her a name that sounds a bit more respectable in his eyes.

I love how Dickens is setting it all up to contrast the Dombeys with others of the lower classes, in a way the Dombeys come out poorly. Polly Toodle is healthy, with a doting husband, several children (and sons!) who thrive, and a sister who can and can be trusted with caring for them (while Dombey's wife died, he has only two children and one boy, and despite having a sister he cannot rely on her to take care of his kids). Sol takes care of his orphaned nephew, who trusts him and is totally at ease with him, and does what he can to bring thst nephew up well. Chick doesn't even look at her niece, and cannot be bothered to do more than dump her nephew with a (luckily wholesome) servant and walk them sometimes, for a very short time. It is clear from the start that the Dombey family is lacking, in a stark contrast with the families that were supposed to be beneath them. On the other hand, the Toodles and the Midshipman oozed warmth, and I loved their presence.

I didn't lay the link between Tox and toxic yet, but I agree that her influence might very well provide extra toxic situations in the future!

Also, I am with those who believe Dombey is not bad per se. He is brought up with these values and does not know any better. It's also obvious he's very much influenced by Chick and Tox, and influenceable by what the outside world will think overall.

Then there's Mrs. Chick. Her name is cutesy/childlike (I did see that one!), she also dresses more juvenile than she is. There is no mention of her children, while I don't think she will get any anymore, seen Dombey's age. Even if she's 10 years younger than her brother, they both are veritably old for people living in Londen in the victorian era, where and when life expectancy was about 36 years old (source). Would she try to appear juvenile to quiet those who say she will now never produce that male heir their family expects? And how come she influences her brother so much, when as a girl she also would have been 'thrown away'?

Let me start by saying that this is going to be the third or fourth time I am reading Dombey and Son and while my first encounter with the book did not leave a very lasting impression, I came to realize how cleverly written it is when I read it in the other group. I would even rank it amongst my favourite Dickens novels now.

I think you might want to read the book at least twice because this way, you become aware a little bit better of the various motifs and details Dickens uses to knit the storylines together and to create a certain atmosphere. Peter already mentioned the ocean imagery that is evoked at the end of the first chapter, and I'd like to add the detail of the watch chain Mr. Dombey is playing with. You might want to watch out for watches and clocks in the novel. In Mr. Dombey's case, the heavy gold of the watch-chain indicates his wealth and his power but the watch as such seems to imply that there is one force, namely Time, at whose mercy even a powerful and wealthy merchant as he will remain.

Why is Polly Toodle named Richards? - I like both Alissa's and Jantine's suggestions, especially since "Richards" sounds a lot more distinguished and toffey-nosed than "Toodle", and just imagine how much self-forbearance and disgust it must have required from Mr. Dombey to use the name Toodle within in his own house in daily intercourse with a servant of his. He hires, and, of course, he also changes the names of his hirelings at his own discretion, and with the power of his purse. I looked up the meaning of the name "Richard" and fount that it is a portmanteau word of the old Germanic words for "rich" (well, of course" and "strong" and that it means "the powerful ruler". In other words, Richards (with the -s) is someone who belongs to a powerful ruler. Polly, know thy place!

Interestingly, Mr. Dombey also says to his wife that the new-born little son will be called Paul "of course". From the very beginning of his life, he is not to be regarded as an individual but as an extenuation-in-time of the firm "Dombey and Son", the same way as Mr. Dombey himself has probably learned to regard himself. By the way, I also looked up the meaning of the name Paul, and you'll never guess what it means. Dickens had a great sense of humour:
(view spoiler)[Paul means "the small one" or "the humble one". (hide spoiler)]

And yes, Jantine, it must be wormwood to Mr. Dombey that his own son is to depend, for his survival, on the services of a wet-nurse, and the narrator makes it quite clear that this is one of the reasons why he is so ready to turn down any applicant coming before him. Only when he realizes that this gratification of his blind pride, if carried on for much longer, would destroy the life of his son, nip him in the bud, does he consider giving Polly Toodle a chance.

The Toodles are a hearty and warm family, with a true spirit of kindness and solidarity, and Polly does more for little Paul than an ordinary wet-nurse would have done - by laying the foundation of true sibling love between Paul and Florence. I could not help frowning at the dumb behaviour of Mr. Toodle, though, when he faced Mr. Dombey and "did nothing but chuckle and grin, and continually draw his right hand across his mouth, moistening his palm." (Chapter 2) What picture of a working class man is Dickens giving us here? Are we to suppose that people like Toodle are not the sharpest knives in the drawers, or that the presence of an eminent man like Dombey reduces them to children casting down their eyes in front of a revered teacher? Why not give us a normal adult man, self-confident, decent and master of his own senses, instead of an arrant fool?

Peter wrote: "To be just outside the birthing room was actually a very rare event, almost unheard of, in a Victorian novel. In Hardy’s Tess of the D’Ubervilles the reader sees Tess with her very young child. Can you recall any others?"

Maybe, I'm cheating a bit, but I'd name David Copperfield and Oliver Twist It seems to be quite a Dickens thing :-)

Talking about the encounter between Toodle and Mr. Dombey, it is here that the narrator says about the contrast between the stoker and the merchant, "A thorough contrast in all respects, to Mr Domboy, who was one of those close-shaved, close-cut moneyed gentlemen who are glossy and crips like new bank-notes, and who seem to be artificially braced and tightened as by the stimulating action of golden showerbaths."

What springs to mind here is the artificiality and the lack of humaneness in Mr. Dombey. Whenever we get a description of the merchant, we are drowning in attributes referring to clothes, to furniture and to other commodities as though Dombey is not a man but the embodiment of wealth ...

And yet, his house and the offices where Walter has taken up his new job are anything but inviting or even splendid. They seem cold, dark, lifeless and forlorn, and when you mentioned the cobweb with the old bluebottle in it, I could not help thinking that all this does not bode well for Mr. Dombey and his position in life. Times are changing, and if Mr. Solomon Gill bemoans the fact that he has failed to see the signs of change and to go with the times, let Mr. Dombey be sure that he will do so. From what he have learned so far, Mr. Dombey seems rather inflexible, willing to take the outside for the gist, as for example when he is content to see his son being paraded before him - like a baby before an Ogre - but who does not interact with him. And let alone with his daughter Florence, who is only important for him now as a playmate for his son. His tendency to be impressed with the outside of things and to take them for the inside, might also be a reason why Mrs. Chick has such sway over him.

Indeed, when he is sitting there in the shades of the old-fashioned dark furniture, looking at his child, Mr. Dombey seems like a prisoner to Polly, "or a strange apparition that was not to be accosted or understood."

Do I find anything redeeming in Mr. Dombey? Not as yet, but unlike the villains from our previous novel, he seems, as others here have said, not bent on doing evil for the sake of evil, but he is just behaving dysfunctionally.

Chapter 1

My goodness but how different from Chuzzlewit. A tightly written chapter, and so much more somber and sober than anything he has previously written. Still. Dickens shines:

On the brow of Dombey, Time and his brother Care had set some marks, as on a tree that was to come down in good time—remorseless twins they are for striding through their human forests, notching as they go—while the countenance of Son was crossed with a thousand little creases, which the same deceitful Time would take delight in smoothing out and wearing away with the flat part of his scythe, as a preparation of the surface for his deeper operations.

That is so Dickens, as is the muffin baking beside the fire. This strikes me as a magnitude better than anything he had written up to this point.

Peter,

I think the words 'somber' and 'sober' describe both the narrative and the characters. How different from what we have been reading.

And though the house has not been described in chapter 1, I can't help feeling there is nary a window to be found, and if there are some, they are adorned with such thick curtains that sunlight can never enter to brighten a soul.

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Peter,

I think the words 'somber' and 'sober' describe both the narrative and the characters. How different from what we have been reading."

Hi Xan

How true. As you note Dombey and Son is a very different novel in structure, form, and mood from Martin Chuzzlewit. It often seems to me that Dickens must have flicked a switch and said “O.K, it’s time for the second part of my career to begin.”

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "And though the house has not been described in chapter 1, I can't help feeling there is nary a window to be found, and if there are some, they are adorned with such thick curtains that sunlight can..."

Yes. The house is certainly not anything or any place I would want to be. As we move through the novel Dombey’s house takes on many alterations and remarkable characteristics. Stay tuned. :-)

Jantine wrote: "I thought the name change would be to obscure how Dombey needed a lower class woman to care for his son, by giving her a name that sounds a bit more respectable in his eyes.

I love how Dickens is ..."

Jantine

Thanks for the statistics on life expectancy. It is really rather sobering.

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "And though the house has not been described in chapter 1, I can't help feeling there is nary a window to be found, and if there are some, they are adorned with such thick curtains that sunlight can..."

That is exactly how I imagined it, while thinking 'poor infant, blissfully packaged and warm, without a care in the world, and no idea what's probably coming for him.'

Is it too early for me to say "poor" yet? Because I have it all ready, perhaps more than ever. First I have poor, poor Mrs. Dombey, this lady had the honor of ten years of marriage to the great Dombey (and son) only to end after giving birth to the next great Dombey (and son). I'm having trouble separating the man from the business. Dombey with his:

‘The House will once again, Mrs Dombey,’ said Mr Dombey, ‘be not only in name but in fact Dombey and Son;’ and he added, in a tone of luxurious satisfaction, with his eyes half-closed as if he were reading the name in a device of flowers, and inhaling their fragrance at the same time; ‘Dom-bey and Son!’

The words had such a softening influence, that he appended a term of endearment to Mrs Dombey’s name (though not without some hesitation, as being a man but little used to that form of address): and said, ‘Mrs Dombey, my—my dear.’

had me wondering if the man enjoyed having sex just for the fun of it, or if it was something he had to do to carry on the name of Dombey and son. For that matter, I wonder if his wife enjoyed having sex with him, or was she incredibly tired of hearing of the son she was required to give birth to. Poor, poor Mrs. Dombey.

Then there's poor little Paul. This kid has to live up to all that Dombey house stuff:

The earth was made for Dombey and Son to trade in, and the sun and moon were made to give them light. Rivers and seas were formed to float their ships; rainbows gave them promise of fair weather; winds blew for or against their enterprises; stars and planets circled in their orbits, to preserve inviolate a system of which they were the centre. Common abbreviations took new meanings in his eyes, and had sole reference to them. A. D. had no concern with Anno Domini, but stood for anno Dombei—and Son.

What would happen I wonder if little Paul just doesn't have the head for business? What if he is a gifted artist, or a talented musician? What if all he should want to do is write books? Novels perhaps, or short stories, published over time, just a few chapters a month. :-) What would that do to the house of Dombey and Son? But poor little Paul is going to be raised the same way his poor father was. And that brings me to poor Mr. Dombey, because I do feel sorry for him too.

He had risen, as his father had before him, in the course of life and death, from Son to Dombey, and for nearly twenty years had been the sole representative of the Firm.

Dombey after Dombey has been raised to believe in the Firm, and only in the Firm, the Firm is above all. But when his wife was dying he did feel sad about it, sad for him anyway:

To record of Mr Dombey that he was not in his way affected by this intelligence, would be to do him an injustice. He was not a man of whom it could properly be said that he was ever startled, or shocked; but he certainly had a sense within him, that if his wife should sicken and decay, he would be very sorry, and that he would find a something gone from among his plate and furniture, and other household possessions, which was well worth the having, and could not be lost without sincere regret. Though it would be a cool, business-like, gentlemanly, self-possessed regret, no doubt.

Then there is poor Miss Tox, who only gets a poor out of me because I feel sorry for a person who doesn't seem to have anyone else in her life, because if she had she wouldn't have to be the dear friend of Mrs. Chick. I don't feel sorry for Mrs. Chick, so far I have found nothing at all to like about her. I would feel sorry for her husband, but he was dumb enough to marry her, he should have known better.

And now I am at poor, poor little Florence. The six year old girl who has been ignored by her father all her life who no longer has the mother who loved her. And then, not only is she all alone, but her father has all the furniture, lighting, paintings, everything covered up, so that I now picture her wandering around in this big, dark house, with every room closed, every piece of furniture covered, except whatever is in her own room and in her father's. And she's walking up and down these dark stairways, going nowhere in particular, since the only place to go would be to her father and he won't see her. Thank goodness there is a little Paul, and a Richards, and a Susan Nipper or I'd think we have another Little Nell on our hands. Oh, and the name Richards can't have anything to do with German words, it's too short.

Peter wrote: "In Hardy’s Tess of the D’Ubervilles the reader sees Tess with her very young child. Can you recall any others?"

Nicholas Nickleby

There are certain polite forms and ceremonies which must be observed in civilised life, or mankind relapse into their original barbarism. No genteel lady was ever yet confined—indeed, no genteel confinement can possibly take place—without the accompanying symbol of a muffled knocker. Mrs Kenwigs was a lady of some pretensions to gentility; Mrs. Kenwigs was confined. And, therefore, Mr. Kenwigs tied up the silent knocker on the premises in a white kid glove.

‘I’m not quite certain neither,’ said Mr. Kenwigs, arranging his shirt-collar, and walking slowly upstairs, ‘whether, as it’s a boy, I won’t have it in the papers.’

Rosemont, Lauanne. Twenty Fifth September 1846.

My Dear Talfourd.

Having received your letter today, with the greatest pleasure, I write a hasty note by return of Post, to say that I eschew all Scientific doings at Genoa (albeit they take place in my old house) and remain a fixture here, until November. Therefore, "on Saturday the 3rd. of October, between 4 and 5 in the afternoon", we shall expect you here: and your wants being so moderate, in respect of beds, I am happy to say we shall be able to house you all. We are on the Ouchy Road, a very little way out of Lausanne.

I am horribly hard at work with my Christmas Book, which runs (rather inconveniently) in a Curricle just now, with "Dealings with the Firm of Dombey and Son" - for that's the name of the other; in the beginning whereof, I have pleased myself, and hope to please you. Your advent will be a most noble holiday for me; and please God we will take a glorious walk on the Sunday.

Mrs. Dickens and her sister join me in kindest regards. In case this letter should not reach you at Chamounix, I have dispatched a duplicate of it to the Poste Restante, Geneva.

Ever Believe me
Most affectionately Yours
Charles Dickens

Kim wrote: "Peter wrote: "In Hardy’s Tess of the D’Ubervilles the reader sees Tess with her very young child. Can you recall any others?"

Nicholas Nickleby

There are certain polite forms and ceremonies whic..."

Kim

Ah, thank you for reminding me. My list grows slowly.

Chapter 2

Perhaps a teapot would do as well. At least Mr. Dombey wouldn't have to worry about the teapot filing any filial claims to his boy.

Which reminds me, where is the daughter and why doesn't anyone care? Oh, things don't look promising for her. If she's smart she'll walk away with the Toodles, get lost in the mob, and pretend to be one of them.

I already see the daughter being neglected, but I'm beginning to wonder about the son too. I suppose you could say all the Dombeys are doting on him. But for what reason and in what way?

I wonder if they, especially the father, are doting on him out of a sense of love or out of a sense of legacy that only he can fulfill? He will carry on the business and the family name, but in all other respects will he be thought of as his sister is thought of by the rest of the family, which is to say not thought of at all?

Kim wrote: "Oh, and the name Richards can't have anything to do with German words, it's too short."

That's a sound argument, Kim ;-)

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Chapter 2

Perhaps a teapot would do as well. At least Mr. Dombey wouldn't have to worry about the teapot filing any filial claims to his boy.

Which reminds me, where is the daughter and why doesn..."

I am reading the Oxford World's Classics edition of the novel, the annotations say, "not as improbable as it sounds: some of the implements used to feed motherless babies (in the absence of a wet-nurse) at the time looked remarkably like teapots, and were made of tin or silver."

Still, it is quite a telling idea to replace a mother with the help of a gadget resembling a teapot, and in this context it certainly seems to imply that in the Dombey family a woman can easily be substituted through a machine or a gadget, at least in the eyes of Mr. Dombey - even though this particular idea is Mr. Chick's.

The more I think about Dombey, the more he reminds me of King Henry VIII., who was so obsessed with the thought of having a male heir that he treated his wives quite ruthlessly, although at least Anne Boleyn seems to have merited little better. Whatever happened to Edward VI., the "godly imp"? ;-)

So how is Polly Toodle's (Richards') own baby being fed? He (she?) was sent back home with his father, siblings and unmarried aunt. Where's the milk coming from?

I started with Our Mutual Friend, then Drood, and then eventually to Pickwick. My initial impression of the writing in Dombey and Son does seem somewhat of a departure from the early works. Thus “late Dickens.” I readily admit that comments made here helped me discern that, which I may not have picked up on my own. Some of the biographical studies also say this about Dombey and Son. What then might prompt that from my own perspective? Well, the first scene settings of OMF, Drood, and D&S all seem mood intensive.

John wrote: "I started with Our Mutual Friend, then Drood, and then eventually to Pickwick. My initial impression of the writing in Dombey and Son does seem somewhat of a departure from the early works. Thus “l..."

An interesting point John. Certainly the “later” novels have much more intense openings. Just think of BH, GE and TTC for some examples.

I've read the first four chapters and am really looking forward to reading this book. The first three chapters were very striking, very emotional. I was surprised how upsetting I found them, to be honest. The first chapter is tragic, as a parent, thinking of any child witnessing the death of their mother at such a young age, it was hard to read, although I never considered not reading further. Then Richards arrives, and we have some hope for Florence to have a mother-figure at least in her life - I can't say I hold out much hope for her relationship with her father. I get the impression there are things Mr Dombey is incapable of, maybe due tom his own upbringing, that we will not see remedied in this novel. And Chapter IV is far warmer.. they almost seem a bunch of lovable scallywags in comparison. I almost hope Florence does marry Walter!

Vicki wrote: "So how is Polly Toodle's (Richards') own baby being fed? He (she?) was sent back home with his father, siblings and unmarried aunt. Where's the milk coming from?"

Vicki

Ah, interesting question. A few loose threads in the narrative structure perhaps. :-)

Peter wrote: "Vicki wrote: "So how is Polly Toodle's (Richards') own baby being fed? He (she?) was sent back home with his father, siblings and unmarried aunt. Where's the milk coming from?"

Vicki

Ah, interest..."

I wondered the same thing. Is he being fed with a bottle? (I'm guessing on the he I can't remember.) Did they even feed babies with bottles then? I don't know.

Mrs. Tox introduces the Party

Chapter 2

Phiz

Text Illustrated:

‘My dear Louisa,’ said Miss Tox, ‘knowing your great anxiety, and wishing to relieve it, I posted off myself to the Queen Charlotte’s Royal Married Females,’ which you had forgot, and put the question, Was there anybody there that they thought would suit? No, they said there was not. When they gave me that answer, I do assure you, my dear, I was almost driven to despair on your account. But it did so happen, that one of the Royal Married Females, hearing the inquiry, reminded the matron of another who had gone to her own home, and who, she said, would in all likelihood be most satisfactory. The moment I heard this, and had it corroborated by the matron—excellent references and unimpeachable character—I got the address, my dear, and posted off again.’

‘Like the dear good Tox, you are!’ said Louisa.

‘Not at all,’ returned Miss Tox. ‘Don’t say so. Arriving at the house (the cleanest place, my dear! You might eat your dinner off the floor), I found the whole family sitting at table; and feeling that no account of them could be half so comfortable to you and Mr Dombey as the sight of them all together, I brought them all away. This gentleman,’ said Miss Tox, pointing out the apple-faced man, ‘is the father. Will you have the goodness to come a little forward, Sir?’

The apple-faced man having sheepishly complied with this request, stood chuckling and grinning in a front row.

‘This is his wife, of course,’ said Miss Tox, singling out the young woman with the baby. ‘How do you do, Polly?’

‘I’m pretty well, I thank you, Ma’am,’ said Polly.

By way of bringing her out dexterously, Miss Tox had made the inquiry as in condescension to an old acquaintance whom she hadn’t seen for a fortnight or so.

‘I’m glad to hear it,’ said Miss Tox. ‘The other young woman is her unmarried sister who lives with them, and would take care of her children. Her name’s Jemima. How do you do, Jemima?’

‘I’m pretty well, I thank you, Ma’am,’ returned Jemima.

‘I’m very glad indeed to hear it,’ said Miss Tox. ‘I hope you’ll keep so. Five children. Youngest six weeks. The fine little boy with the blister on his nose is the eldest. The blister, I believe,’ said Miss Tox, looking round upon the family, ‘is not constitutional, but accidental?’

The apple-faced man was understood to growl, ‘Flat iron.’

A Thorough Contrast In All Respects to Mr. Dombey

Chapter 2

Fred Barnard

Text Illustrated:

Thus arrested on the threshold as he was following his wife out of the room, Toodle returned and confronted Mr Dombey alone. He was a strong, loose, round-shouldered, shuffling, shaggy fellow, on whom his clothes sat negligently: with a good deal of hair and whisker, deepened in its natural tint, perhaps by smoke and coal-dust: hard knotty hands: and a square forehead, as coarse in grain as the bark of an oak. A thorough contrast in all respects, to Mr Dombey, who was one of those close-shaved close-cut moneyed gentlemen who are glossy and crisp like new bank-notes, and who seem to be artificially braced and tightened as by the stimulating action of golden showerbaths.

‘You have a son, I believe?’ said Mr Dombey.

‘Four on ‘em, Sir. Four hims and a her. All alive!’

‘Why, it’s as much as you can afford to keep them!’ said Mr Dombey.

‘I couldn’t hardly afford but one thing in the world less, Sir.’

‘What is that?’

‘To lose ‘em, Sir.’

‘Can you read?’ asked Mr Dombey.

‘Why, not partick’ler, Sir.’

‘Write?’

‘With chalk, Sir?’

‘With anything?’

‘I could make shift to chalk a little bit, I think, if I was put to it,’ said Toodle after some reflection.

‘And yet,’ said Mr Dombey, ‘you are two or three and thirty, I suppose?’

‘Thereabouts, I suppose, Sir,’ answered Toodle, after more reflection

‘Then why don’t you learn?’ asked Mr Dombey.

‘So I’m a going to, Sir. One of my little boys is a going to learn me, when he’s old enough, and been to school himself.’

‘Well,’ said Mr Dombey, after looking at him attentively, and with no great favour, as he stood gazing round the room (principally round the ceiling) and still drawing his hand across and across his mouth. ‘You heard what I said to your wife just now?’

‘Polly heerd it,’ said Toodle, jerking his hat over his shoulder in the direction of the door, with an air of perfect confidence in his better half. ‘It’s all right.’

‘But I ask you if you heard it. You did, I suppose, and understood it?’ pursued Mr Dombey.

‘I heerd it,’ said Toodle, ‘but I don’t know as I understood it rightly Sir, ‘account of being no scholar, and the words being—ask your pardon—rayther high. But Polly heerd it. It’s all right.’

"I may be fond of pennywinkles, Mrs. Richards, but it don't follow that I'm to have 'em for tea."

Chapter 3

Fred Barnard

Text Illustrated:

‘And the child’s heart,’ said Polly, drawing her to her breast: ‘the little daughter’s heart was so full of the truth of this, that even when she heard it from a strange nurse that couldn’t tell it right, but was a poor mother herself and that was all, she found a comfort in it—didn’t feel so lonely—sobbed and cried upon her bosom—took kindly to the baby lying in her lap—and—there, there, there!’ said Polly, smoothing the child’s curls and dropping tears upon them. ‘There, poor dear!’

‘Oh well, Miss Floy! And won’t your Pa be angry neither!’ cried a quick voice at the door, proceeding from a short, brown, womanly girl of fourteen, with a little snub nose, and black eyes like jet beads. ‘When it was ‘tickerlerly given out that you wasn’t to go and worrit the wet nurse.’

‘She don’t worry me,’ was the surprised rejoinder of Polly. ‘I am very fond of children.’

‘Oh! but begging your pardon, Mrs Richards, that don’t matter, you know,’ returned the black-eyed girl, who was so desperately sharp and biting that she seemed to make one’s eyes water. ‘I may be very fond of pennywinkles, Mrs Richards, but it don’t follow that I’m to have ‘em for tea.’

The Dombey Family

Chapter 3

Phiz

Text Illustrated:

It was not difficult to perceive that Florence was at a great disadvantage in her father’s presence. It was not only a constraint upon the child’s mind, but even upon the natural grace and freedom of her actions. As she sported and played about her baby brother that night, her manner was seldom so winning and so pretty as it naturally was, and sometimes when in his pacing to and fro, he came near her (she had, perhaps, for the moment, forgotten him) it changed upon the instant and became forced and embarrassed.

Still, Polly persevered with all the better heart for seeing this; and, judging of Mr Dombey by herself, had great confidence in the mute appeal of poor little Florence’s mourning dress. ‘It’s hard indeed,’ thought Polly, ‘if he takes only to one little motherless child, when he has another, and that a girl, before his eyes.’

So, Polly kept her before his eyes, as long as she could, and managed so well with little Paul, as to make it very plain that he was all the livelier for his sister’s company. When it was time to withdraw upstairs again, she would have sent Florence into the inner room to say good-night to her father, but the child was timid and drew back; and when she urged her again, said, spreading her hands before her eyes, as if to shut out her own unworthiness, ‘Oh no, no! He don’t want me. He don’t want me!’

The little altercation between them had attracted the notice of Mr Dombey, who inquired from the table where he was sitting at his wine, what the matter was.

‘Miss Florence was afraid of interrupting, Sir, if she came in to say good-night,’ said Richards.

‘It doesn’t matter,’ returned Mr Dombey. ‘You can let her come and go without regarding me.’

The child shrunk as she listened—and was gone, before her humble friend looked round again.

"So here's to Dombey, and Son, and Daughter."

Chapter 4

Thomas Fogarty

Text Illustrated:

‘Yes, yes,’ said Sol, ‘a little more. We’ll finish the bottle, to the House, Ned—Walter’s House. Why it may be his House one of these days, in part. Who knows? Sir Richard Whittington married his master’s daughter.’

‘“Turn again Whittington, Lord Mayor of London, and when you are old you will never depart from it,”’ interposed the Captain. ‘Wal’r! Overhaul the book, my lad.’

‘And although Mr Dombey hasn’t a daughter,’ Sol began.

‘Yes, yes, he has, Uncle,’ said the boy, reddening and laughing.

‘Has he?’ cried the old man. ‘Indeed I think he has too.’

‘Oh! I know he has,’ said the boy. ‘Some of ‘em were talking about it in the office today. And they do say, Uncle and Captain Cuttle,’ lowering his voice, ‘that he’s taken a dislike to her, and that she’s left, unnoticed, among the servants, and that his mind’s so set all the while upon having his son in the House, that although he’s only a baby now, he is going to have balances struck oftener than formerly, and the books kept closer than they used to be, and has even been seen (when he thought he wasn’t) walking in the Docks, looking at his ships and property and all that, as if he was exulting like, over what he and his son will possess together. That’s what they say. Of course, I don’t know.’

‘He knows all about her already, you see,’ said the instrument-maker.

‘Nonsense, Uncle,’ cried the boy, still reddening and laughing, boy-like. ‘How can I help hearing what they tell me?’

‘The son’s a little in our way at present, I’m afraid, Ned,’ said the old man, humouring the joke.

‘Very much,’ said the Captain.

‘Nevertheless, we’ll drink him,’ pursued Sol. ‘So, here’s to Dombey and Son.’

‘Oh, very well, Uncle,’ said the boy, merrily. ‘Since you have introduced the mention of her, and have connected me with her and have said that I know all about her, I shall make bold to amend the toast. So here’s to Dombey—and Son—and Daughter!’

"Fancies" for Mr. Dombey

Phiz

Intended for Dickens's Dombey and Son

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Still. Dickens shines:

On the brow of Dombey, Time and his brother Care had set some marks, as on a tree that was to come down in good time—remorseless twins they are for striding through their human forests, notching as they go—while the countenance of Son was crossed with a thousand little creases, which the same deceitful Time would take delight in smoothing out and wearing away with the flat part of his scythe, as a preparation of the surface for his deeper operations.

That is so Dickens, as is the muffin baking beside the fire. This strikes me as a magnitude better than anything he had written up to this point."


Yes. I loved this opening so much. And as to can we have any sympathy for Mr. Dombey--I was very surprised, as I read, to see him turn out so awful so quickly. He's extremely easy to identify with in the opening paragraphs, all marked out by time like everybody else. And it's interesting to me that he's not absolutely selfish at the very start. He's interested in Dombey and SON, and I was left thinking at first that maybe he misses his own father.

Of course shortly thereafter it's pretty clear that his attachment to SON is some kind of displaced egotism and status consciousness that leads him also to neglect his daughter and separate that poor woman from her poor children. There's a little hint of guilt in his behavior to Florence when he sees her, but that's not enough to redeem him, so I guess we have it established pretty early on that he's awful.

But it's so odd to me that he doesn't start that way.

If that's Mrs. Chick sitting down in the first illustration, then PERFECT!

But for some reason I had pictured in my mind Mr. Dombey as being stouter and burlier. He looks way too delicate in these illustrations.

For me too, the one closest to how I see Mr. Dombey is the one most bottom right of Phiz' fancies. Thanks again for the pictures, Kim!

John wrote: "In regard to the first question about being outside the birthing room, I must admit a sense of immediate foreboding about the well-being of the mother. It would seem to me that novels of that era u..."

Wasn't that typical of society in general surviving during and afyter birth with unsterile procedures etc. I wonder what birth & suvival rates were among different economic classes during Dicken's time?

Francis wrote: "Wasn't that typical of society in general surviving during and afyter birth with unsterile procedures etc. I wonder what birth & suvival rates were among different economic classes during Dicken's time? "

This has some information

http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/p-h...

"By our standards, health in the Nineteenth Century was very bad indeed, although one should beware of 'reading history backwards' - that is, making judgements about the past from a modern perspective. London's death rate was very high at 35.3 per 1,000. The infant mortality rate was also high: 437 per 1,000 children born, died before they reached the age of 2."

Also, see the chart of average age of death by labor category by city

Kim wrote: "

The Dombey Family

Chapter 3

Phiz

Text Illustrated:

It was not difficult to perceive that Florence was at a great disadvantage in her father’s presence. It was not only a constraint upon the c..."

It is interesting to see the lamp covered in this drawing. I understand Victorian Lindon is general a dark & dreary place, This drawing seems bto indicatec brightness and ;light may be a bad thing. That gloom is preferred.

Good grief! Mrs. Dombey didn't need to be buried in the ground; she didn't need to leave the house; it's a tomb; leave her in the living room.

Upon meeting Susan Nipper, but before learning her name, I thought of Nell on Little House on the Prairie. After learning her name, I thought of a chihuahua.

I dare say, Dickens, it's time for a little humor. Can't you have Dumbo the elephant fall on Dombey the Delicate? I'd laugh at that. Florence could use a good laugh too. And what if Mr. Dombey should perish? I'm sure little Flo wouldn't recognize him, and certainly wouldn't miss him. Nor would anyone else. And I'm betting this story would get along a lot better without him . . . errr, uhm . . . Sorry! Got a little carried away.

In all seriousness, what does Dombey do in that room all day? Besides think of Dombey and Son, I mean.

The scene where Dombey looks at his daughter and sees none of what the narrator sees in her eyes is powerful stuff. it is also a high crime. A door has slammed shut. His human failure, a portend of the future.

Liking Mrs. Richards, who we badly need to call Toodles.

Kim wrote: "I wondered the same thing. Is he being fed with a bottle? (I'm guessing on the he I can't remember.) Did they even feed babies with bottles then? I don't know. "

I did some reading around on this once and most babies were not bottle fed--which is probably why Mr. D decides he's going to have to risk contaminating his family with a connection to people named Toodle.

Also there were problems in London in particular with milk not being real milk, but watered down with chalk in it. So you maybe didn't want your kid on that either.

My guess is if Baby Toodle is old enough, he's going to have to risk it with London milk, and if he's too young they'll find him his own wetnurse at a lower rate--just as professional nannies now sometimes have to find childcare for their own kids with family or at a lower rate than they're getting paid by a wealthy employer.

Mr. Chick's teapot line is very funny and does so much to characterize him, I think.