Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

Our book for March is The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton from the United States.
Samantha will be leading our discussion.

I am very excited about this and will be digging out my copy this evening to give the book a solid introduction. 😃 I have read the novel 3x already in my life before this reread.

I read this book 18 times. The first time I read it, age 11, was in a single afternoon. My name from school was Pony, a name that some people can only remember me by. I have a pink Fender Mustang guitar that I fondly refer to as 'Ponyboy.'

When I stepped out into the bright sunlight from the darkness of the movie house, I had only two things on my mind - Paul Newman, and a ride home.

Thus beginneth a saga somewhat influenced by West Side Story by Irving Shulman, as there are a couple of lines lifted directly from it, and deals with the camaraderie of teenage boys in Tulsa, Oklahoma, although the location is never actually stated in the book.

S.E. Hinton brought the world The Outsiders at only 15 years old, and at that time she was advised to use her initials to publish the book. The industry thought that no one would believe a woman, a teenager at that, could have written such a story about gangs in northeast Oklahoma. She based the story on where she grew up in Tulsa and the social environment that surrounded her. The book was originally published in 1967, 53 years ago now, and still resonates with readers today — both those reading it for the first time and the return readers. You know who you are.

In many places this book is still required reading during middle school, often for 7th or 8th grade in the US. Students who don’t typically enjoy reading have reportedly loved this book and even went on to become a more frequent reader because of it.

The classic is about friendship and family, who actually constitutes as such. It is about morality and gallantry. It is about life and what we make it. Hinton shows how everyone feels like an outsider in their own way. She shows us what it means to “stay gold”.

I hope everyone enjoys reading!! Please share thoughts as you go. The edition I linked is the 50th anniversary edition I have. If anyone is interested in watching the movie adaptation after reading the book, I highly recommend the complete novel version, essentially the director’s cut from Francis Ford Coppola.

Actually she was 17 when she wrote it and 18 when it was published :)

she started a writing an idea, or a rough draft at 15, but the book wasn't completed until two years later.

By writing a little bit every day she was able to finish her next book 4 years later, That Was Then, This is Now in 1971.

I watched a little of the movie about the last 45 minutes while flipping channels earlier today. I forgot who all starred in it.

Samantha what a fabulous edition you have! Really nice.

I got the vibe from Dally that he was a bit like Cagney's Tom Powers in Public Enemy.

Jazzy wrote: "Actually she was 17 when she wrote it and 18 when it was published :)

she started a writing an idea, or a rough draft at 15, but the book wasn't completed until two years later.

By writing a litt..."


Jazzy, the edition I have consists of note from the author at the beginning. The note states how she herself considers having written it at age 15, because that’s when she wrote her first draft of the book. :) She admits, “My first draft was forty pages long, single spaced.” Yes, the initial writing of it was short, and I am very glad she extended the story. I admire Hinton having produced what I consider a wonderful novel at such a young age.

Yes but the book wasn't written, it was just a draft. It wasn't done for another couple of years.

There's no shame in being 17 when you complete your first novel, and 18 when it was published. It's a good thing.

Later I got this copy because the cover is class.

At such a young age herself she is credited with introducing the YA genre! Such a remarkable step that she made wanting to write and 15 to write her first version of the book at 40 pages! Wow!!

Thank you Samantha for hosting!

Lesle wrote: "I watched a little of the movie about the last 45 minutes while flipping channels earlier today. I forgot who all starred in it.

Samantha what a fabulous edition you have! Really nice."

Thank you, Lesle! I first watched the movie late at night on cable over a decade ago, because I also just happened upon it. I caught it at the beginning, luckily. When I found out a few years ago that there is a complete novel version, I immediately sought it out. I feel that edition of the movie is the best book to movie adaption I’ve ever seen or heard of yet.

Francis Ford Coppola was actually petitioned by a large group of students from Lone Star School in Sanger, California to direct a movie version of the book. After reading the book himself, he promptly loved the idea of directing the movie. He cut scenes for the original movie release, but later he realized teens who loved the book would like to see the full version with every book scene. After showing that version to his granddaughter’s high school class, he “asked Warner Bros. if they’d release the DVD in a new version which I called The Outsiders: The Complete Novel” (taken also from an extra piece in the 50th anniversary edition of the book). I think us fans of the novel are very fortunate that someone who also loved the book decided to direct it. What a treat!

I also think it is the voice of society, the destruction and disassembling of the family, poverty, domestic abuse, and the human desire to create the semblance of a family where one would otherwise not exist combined with a love of West Side Story, Gone With the Wind, and the gentle poetry of Robert Frost, thereby proving that those left to the scrap heap have tender souls after all.

I did not know that about Coppola. Kuddos to him for realizing that it was best not to cut out any scenes.

I also recommend after the book to see the movie they are a perfect pair. I read the book as a High Schooler and than in my 40's. I believe it will be one of Brayden's favorites in a few years.

This has been one of my favorite novels since I first read it in 8th grade.

Obviously it was one of my favourites too, since I read it 18 times :)

I think the picture on the cover depicts Ponyboy smoking a tab and Johnny giving a cheeky finger behind him. :)

Also teenagers were still a 'new' idea, no longer just young adults going into training or profession, they wore different clothes, had different haircuts, and became big business. This book was released in the Summer of Love, after all.

While the French, for example, were already well acquainted with the anti-hero by 1967, the United States was not, and The Outsiders ushered in a brave new kind of character: a boy from the wrong side of the tracks who smokes like a chimney but also has a penchant for quoting Robert Frost and going to the movies alone.

Great insight from https://alisonlaurabell.tumblr.com/po...

Ponyboy Curtis is very much Francois Truffaut's Antoine Doinel.

Is anyone in the group reading this novel for the first time?

It's hard to believe this amazing novel is 50 yrs. old. Just wow.

It's hard to believe I'm over 50 years old too. Where does the time go?

Blueberry wrote: "It's hard to believe this amazing novel is 50 yrs. old. Just wow."

It just confirms my beliefs that Classics do stand the test of time and can relate to us in current time.

I hope we do get a few first time readers to discuss this read with.

Ah, Lesle, it's very rare to get first-time readers of such popular books though. It's like when I was reading The Maltese Falcon "with the group", there wasn't a single other first time reader besides myself. Ow, was I sorely disappointed! ahaha

But in the Outsiders, Dally was bad, too bad. Just like in a film noir. That's why he reminded me of Cagney in Public Enemy.

The boys in my neighbourhood would case people walking by, they would take purses and lift wallets, they smoked like fiends, but would fight to the death to defend each other.

Some things will never change.

Yes, sometimes it can be hard to get first time readers of popular classics like this, but the group is much larger than those we see actively participating in discussions. As long as we keep the discussion open and inviting without spoilers, some first time readers might decide to contribute.

One of my coworkers only recently listened to the audiobook of The Outsiders; he had never prior read the book. It just wasn’t assigned to him in school, and he hadn’t picked it up. (He’s in his early 30’s.) He did very much enjoy the book.

Yes, it was quite upsetting to have my books spoilt by no one reading it the same time as myself - someone even told the bloody end!!

but I thought i had some good points here if anyone would like to discuss...?

Sadly, I've never once had a book in a bookclub here NOT be spoilt in the following threads so thought that's what is meant to happen and don't read the thread if you haven't read the book! :)

Did you find the photo attractive for the newest copy I had bought? The photo was actually taken in 1949, and was used without permission of the owner of the photograph.

A grandson posted his grandfather's photo online and someone posted the cover of the book. It had been flipped, and used without paying royalties. tut tut!

At least I got royalties when my photos were on book jackets, even if the books will never become as well-known as The Outsiders!

Reddit user jimmydadean posted a picture of his grandfather, Willie Grandon, circa 1949. Grandon was photographed with Oscar Walls; the pair posed dramatically after their arrest in Kansas for a spree of robberies. Grandon was just 16 years old; Walls was 17.

Jimmydadean posted some proof of his identity, and along with it an update on his grandfather’s life after the photo:

“When my grandfather was young he was a bit of a scoundrel. His home life was, I can only assume, terrible, as he refused to talk about it. He ran away, joined a circus, [then] a gang of youths, and was eventually arrested. He never really talked about this part of his life and he certainly wasn’t proud of it.

“The judge, instead of prison, sentenced him to the equivalent of community service as a baker’s apprentice (so the story goes). He has always been incredibly grateful for the opportunity to turn his life around thanks to that judge, and he did just that.

“He would go on to work for Boeing, join the Army, and continue baking, all while raising a family.”

But there’s one more twist to Grandon’s story: His picture wound up in photo agency Corbis’s database, and was eventually used as the cover for an edition of S.E. Hinton’s classic tale of youth gone wild, The Outsiders.

https://people.com/celebrity/redditor...

Not to mention the star-studded cast of the film!

This book is often used in the Grade 8 English curriculum. After reading bits and pieces of the book with various classes when I was substitute teaching, I finally read the book. I've also seen bits and pieces of the movie and enjoyed seeing all of the young actors who went on to have big film careers.

I also think that the author was just a teeny bit in love with Ponyboy.

Samantha, I do hope we have some first time readers joining in the discussion, or maybe those who read it so long ago it will be like the first time.

I didn't read The Secret Garden until I was in my 40s, and The Outsiders when I was even older.

I remember when the book was first published, a friend of mine read it and talked about the Greasers and the Socs. I had no idea what she was talking about.

Our high school was so small and the only big difference was the town kids and the farm kids, which is basically the same compared to city kids.

How big is the population of Tulsa? Now and back then?

Rosemarie that is something I never thought of.

I am sure we will find a few that havent read the entire book or just skimmed it in school. It always amazes me when younger Members have not read To Kill a Mockingbird or Wuthering Heights!

I guess that just makes me old! and older than I want to admit too!

To answer your question, Rosemarie:

According to worldpopulationreview.com, the population of Tulsa in 1970, three years after the book was published, was 330,350. Upon a Google search, in 2017 its population was 401,800.

The high schools that I attended right here southeast of Baton Rouge in the early 2000's had large enough populations for numerous cliques and I wouldn't be surprised about some gangs. I knew there are a few gangs across the parish even today.

Lesle wrote: "Rosemarie that is something I never thought of.

I am sure we will find a few that havent read the entire book or just skimmed it in school. It always amazes me when younger Members have not read [..."

One of my coworkers has yet to read To Kill a Mockingbird, and she is a only few years old than me. I think she plans to read it this year. It was just never assigned to her in school, which is how most people in the US end up reading that one. I haven't yet read Wuthering Heights, but I have a trade paperback copy I intend to read this year.

^^' I hope I'm not being the total noob when I admit that I never even heard about book or movie? But I don't think I can squeeze it in this month.

We read Wuthering Heights in high school, but I didn't read To Kill a Mockingbird until years later, but I did see the movie with Gregory Peck.

Gabi, I can see how it might not be that well-known in Germany. And I am sure that lots of people would not have known about it if they hadn't read it in school.
I didn't read it until I was in my 40s.

It might be one to add to your wish list at some point and time Gabi or at least the movie.

I probably would not have read it on my own either if not for school. I didnt read The Secret Garden till later in life.

Gabi wrote: "^^' I hope I'm not being the total noob when I admit that I never even heard about book or movie? But I don't think I can squeeze it in this month."

I think everyone here will completely understand, if you cannot fit this novel into March. I do highly suggest you add it to your TBR list. Whenever you do get to it, please feel free to add your thoughts, questions, or comments here.

Rosemarie wrote: "We read Wuthering Heights in high school, but I didn't read To Kill a Mockingbird until years later, but I did see the movie with Gregory Peck."

Wuthering Heights was never assigned to me in school, but I read both To Kill a Mockingbird and The Outsiders for class during 8th grade. I had a wonderful teacher that year for reading and English class. Back then around here ELA was split still into two classes. The novels were of course covered in reading class.

I never read this for school. I was just turned 11 years old and would get money doing odd jobs for people and then spend it on books. These paperbacks were quite cheap at the time. I saw this on the rack and bought it. I opened it up and started reading. Then made myself comfortable on the sofa whilst I was alone in the house, my mother gone to work then out with friends. It was a cold, sunny afternoon, the light shining in through the window.

I read til I finished the book, the afternoon was turning into evening with those pink colours filtering in. I lay on my back thinking about it..... and turned to page 1 again.

This was almost 50 years ago, and I can remember it like yesterday.

I think the main attraction of this book is the use of anti-heroes, those who don't fit in, because as a teenager, who has ever felt like they fit in? Who has never felt like an outsider?

In a world of ASBOs and social disorder, here is the voice saying, I'm more than what you see on the outside. I have a heart, I have a soul.

Victims of circumstance, left to drift like balloons set free, when guidance would have been extremely beneficial. But it was too late for some of them, for there is always the danger that one's heart will become too hard.

These boys were let down by society. And that's something so many can identify with.

I have started many topics of discussion on this book, so if anyone would like to join in, please do!

What attributes most attract you to the anti-heroes in this book?

Has anyone seen Public Enemy? or The 400 Blows? Is anyone acquainted with the characters of Tom Powers (who Dally reminds me of) or Antoine Doinel (who I am reminded of in the anti-hero of Ponyboy)?

What do you feel about society and their handling (or mis-handling) of children like these boys?

What do you think would/would have been most beneficial in helping these boys? How could we make a difference to those around us in similar circumstances?

Does reading this book make you want to treat others differently? If so, how? If not, why not?

I’ve never read this, or heard of it until now. It gets really good reviews and you all seem to love it so I thought I’d give it a go. I’ve just ordered a copy so I’ll be joining you as a first time reader :)
I can whizz through books on my kindle as I tend to read a lot at night when I can’t sleep, but I can only get this in the print edition in the UK and it might take me a while to get through it so bear with me.

Since you are reading it for the first time, Georgina, I suggest that you read our discussion posts after you read the book so that you can go into it without any preconceived ideas. We do try to avoid spoilers, but even so posts sometimes subconsciously do change the reading experience.
Enjoy the book, Georgina!

I’m really excited for you, Georgina!! I feel like this is a pretty quick read, because the events happen rather quickly in the book.

Fingers crossed it will be Samantha.
I see some of you studied this at school, I’m not sure what age Grade 8 is in the states, would it be suitable for a 13 year old? (That’s year 8 in the UK) Just wondering if I could pass it on to my daughter after I’ve read it or if I’ll need to wait a couple of years.

And thanks Rosemarie, I’ve scrolled past anything that looked like it might give anything away so far :)

Georgina, Grade 8 students are 13 year olds and they tend to enjoy the book. As Samantha said, it is a fast read and most of the characters are teenagers.

Georgina we are happy to have you with us.

Samantha is our Host for this discussion and she will lead us into different areas of discussion as we go.

Well i tried, but obviously I'm not wanted here.
You think i'd be used to the silent treatment after years of bullying but I don't understand people at all. I don't understand the silent treatment either.

Hi Jazzy, I’m sorry you feel that way, please don’t think I was ignoring you, I haven’t read all of your comments as they seemed to be aimed more to those who had already finished and I didn’t want any spoilers. Once I’ve finished I’ll have a good look through the thread and I’ll (hopefully) have a bit more to say about it.