Into the Forest discussion

This thread is for our March 15-May 14 group read winner the traditional tale Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Spoilers are allowed!

I listened to this on audiobook today and what a great listen! It's read by Bill Wallis and is so very British.

I'd forgotten how the green knight's clothes were described in such detail. They sound really beautiful!

I continue to find the conversations with Lady Bertilak to be fascinating. With this read, I found myself considering if the writer were a woman. There were a lot of medieval women poets writing about the Arthurian court. What do you all think about the possibility?

Part of the seduction reminded me of some of the contes de fees women writers, as well as Marie de France. How it embraces women's sensuality, and also how Lady B tests Sir Gawain's honor. There's a part where she asks Sir Gawain if he would ever take her by force, and he is horrified by the idea. I can see how this can be construed as anti-feminist since she's trying to trick him into debasing his honor, but I also can see this as addressing a very real concern for women.

I also wondered why this hasn't been made into a movie? Oh wait, it is! I found this trailer for The Green Knight, releasing this summer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDG51...

It doesn't look very green though!

I love the poem and have somewhat of a different take on it.

Gawain is set up as a good Christian knight, a point reinforced by the elaborate Christian symbolism on his shield. He tries to uphold the tenets of Christianity as well as the Arthurian code of chivalry. Both ideals are put to the test. Gawain thinks he has successfully passed the test by resisting the lady’s charms. But, in reality, that wasn’t the real test. The real test has to do with opting to put his faith in a magic girdle instead of putting his faith in God. He resorts to magic and superstition to preserve his life. In other words, Gawain fails the test. As a result, he is humbled.

And I think that is what the poem is about. Gawain moves from innocence to knowledge. I think the poet suggests that while it is commendable to strive for high ideals and standards, we must remember we are flawed human beings subject to faults and failures. Our ego must be held in check. That is the lesson Gawain learns. He has gained knowledge about himself, which invariably entails a loss of innocence. He has grown up. And who better to teach him this valuable lesson than a woman since women traditionally are our first teachers? The poet extends this valuable lesson beyond Gawain to the rest of us.

I think another thing we can pick up from this poem is how life tends to throw us a curve ball. Gawain pats himself on the back every time he resists the seduction. He thinks he’s pretty smart for passing the test. But, as he soon discovers, that is not the real test. Similarly, we merrily travel along life’s road, make plans, try to prepare for every contingency, and think we are well-armed to face whatever life has in store for us. We become arrogant and complacent. But life has other ideas. It can—and does—hit us with something totally unexpected and put us through the real test.

Our current situation is a case in point.

Margaret wrote: "I also wondered why this hasn't been made into a movie? Oh wait, it is! I found this trailer for The Green Knight, releasing this summer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDG51...

It doesn't look very green though!.."

I saw the preview a couple of weeks ago. I agree that it doesn't look green. It actually looks very dark. I hope they're not ruining Sir Gawain because it isn't supposed to be a dark poem at all.

Margaret wrote: "I also wondered why this hasn't been made into a movie? Oh wait, it is! I found this trailer for The Green Knight, releasing this summer..."

Yep, that's the one I shared over here https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

🤓

Tamara wrote: "Margaret wrote: "I also wondered why this hasn't been made into a movie? Oh wait, it is! I found this trailer for The Green Knight..."

I agree Sir Gawain & the Green Knight is not a dark story at all. That trailer is certainly dark and the Green Knight in the trailer looks much scarier than I picture him when reading the tale.

Thank you, Leah, for reminding me of a conversation we've already had...and not that long ago, lol! Mom brain.

I agree with all you say, Tamara! I definitely see those themes. Lots of Christian parallels, and that he failed the ultimate test by putting his faith in the sash. Which...I would've too, ha! Good covid-19 mask, I bet. ;)

I just wanted to think about what Lady B's conversations with Gawain said about women's sexuality in the 14th century.

Your comments make me think about how the medieval church tried to erase pagan customs like the green man by embracing the traditions and shifting it toward Christianity. I took a grad class in England called Dickens and the Idea of Christmas, and we looked at churches and Christian iconography that contained the green man (the green man is really all over everything there, as I'm sure some of you know! Once I started noticing it I couldn't walk for five minutes without spotting more green men!). It's interesting though not surprising, that two of our group picks tie the green man (or green lady) to Christianity and also to Arthurian legend. This one and Greenwitch. Do other works do the same? Green man-Christianity-Arthurian legend?

By the way, we talked about the green man because of his associations with Christmas and with the ghost of Christmas Present.

Anyone watch Merlin here? I loved that series, but can't remember if there's a Green Knight episode. I remember Sir Gawain, though! Hang on, nope, there isn't, I looked it up. Too bad! It's a great series.

Margaret wrote: "...Part of the seduction reminded me of some of the contes de fees women writers, as well as Marie de France. How it embraces women's sensuality, and also how Lady B tests Sir Gawain's honor..."

An interesting proposal about the gender of the anonymous writer. I'm inclined to agree.

I finished reading it and completely don't remember anything besides the final resolution. Annette was right, reading it a loud makes a difference, I really should have grabbed an audiobook instead.

I didn't notice "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" belongs to Arthurian mythos until I began reading. Seriously I hadn't connected the dots before.

Tamara, Margaret, thanks for your insightful comments. It's interesting to learn which motifs are adopted from older traditions.

The green man, as iconography, does not come from pagan lore because it's not found in the churches built closest to paganism. First appears in French churches centuries after the conversion, and from there appears in British ones.

Here's a good article about the green man's appearance in architecture: https://www.greenmanenigma.com/histor...

The first known occurrences of the green man in architecture are in ancient Rome. In my class, I read a book on the green man in architecture. I, unfortunately, can't recall the book, though it was a very dry read! But I remember we also discussed how green man iconography appeared in many countries and cultures, including in India. And that there's also evidence of green women with vines and leaves coming out of their breasts and vaginas, but because of the salaciousness of the imagery, they were often destroyed as Christianity spread. I'm not really finding anything to confirm this on the internet though.

Asaria wrote: "I finished reading it and completely don't remember anything besides the final resolution. Annette was right, reading it a loud makes a difference, I really should grab an audiobook instead.

I di..."

It was an excellent audiobook! I'm glad I listened to it this time around.

Amanda wrote: "An interesting proposal about the gender of the anonymous writer. I'm inclined to agree."

:)