Women's Classic Literature Enthusiasts discussion

Please use this thread to discuss chapters 1-23 of Pride and Prejudice. You can also discuss Jane Austen here.

This is Jane Austen's most popular book and probably one of the most read books in the world. I participated in a workshop last summer that discussed many of the books that have been published over the past 200 years that are based on the characters or situations of this novel. These include a mystery by P. D. James, a book with vampires and a book about the lives of the servants of Darcy and Elizabeth's families. As you read, please think about this question: What makes this book so memorable and noteworthy?

If you are into Jane Austen's world and love to dress-up and discuss all of Jane Austen's books and writings, you might want to join a Jane Austen Society. There is JASNA which has meetings and programs in the USA and Canada. http://jasna.org. There is the Jane Austen Society in the U.K. http://www.janeaustensoci.freeuk.com and one in Australia: https://jasa.com.au. There might be more, but I don't know about them.

This is my third reread of Pride and Prejudice. In these strange times; P&P feels warm and cozy and familiar.

I love the opening lines and the interactions of Mrs and Mr Bennett.

I’ve wonder how worrying it must have been to be a young woman with limited means who had to marry for security. Austen makes what could be fearful feel exciting.

It’s actually a while since I last read P&P but I sank into it, like sitting down in a favourite armchair. I think one of the attractions of this book, is her confident and intelligent use of language. Descriptive, evocative and satisfying.

If you need some Jane Austen activities to do during our social distancing time, here are some ideas: https://janeaustensummer.org/2020/03/...

This is my favourite of the classics. I won't reread but will enjoy comments

☯Emily wrote: "This is Jane Austen's most popular book and probably one of the most read books in the world. I participated in a workshop last summer that discussed many of the books that have been published over..."

Now I'm curious. Which books? Will you give some examples?

Marilyn wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "This is Jane Austen's most popular book and probably one of the most read books in the world. I participated in a workshop last summer that discussed many of the books that have been..."

This is a link that lists only a few books:
https://seattle.bibliocommons.com/lis....

The ones I referred to are: Death Comes to Pemberley by P.D. James, Pride and Prejudice and Vampires by P.J. Jones and Longbourn by Jo Baker. There is also Pride and Prejudice and Zombies.

I am beginning to outline a course that first reads P & P, then Longbourn and finishing with Death Comes to Pemberley. Incidentally, P. D. James' book became a PBS series a few years ago.

Last year I met Soniah Kamal who wrote Unmarriageable, which is a modern version of P&P, but takes place in Pakistan. Here is an NPR article about the book. https://www.npr.org/2019/01/20/686316...

Riley Blake fabrics is creating a fabric line based on the quilt at Jane Austen's house. https://www.rileyblakedesigns.com/jan...

P&P was the first classic book that I read and actually liked. It convinced me to give others a try. So I guess you could say it's what helped me discover my love for the classics!
I realized while looking through the thread that it's been a decade since I last read it O.O

☯Emily wrote: "Marilyn wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "This is Jane Austen's most popular book and probably one of the most read books in the world. I participated in a workshop last summer that discussed many of the book..."

Thanks! More for the TBR!

Need something to do on Friday, April 10? There will be a free world-premiere Opening Night lifestream of Pride and Prejudice. You need to register. Here is the information: https://www.prideandprejudicepremiere...

Chapter 1: The book starts with one of the best opening sentences of any book. Can you think of other great opening lines? How do you interpret this sentence - witty, sarcastic, the truth? Does it reveal the tone of the entire book?

What is the relationship between Mr. and Mrs. Bennet as revealed in this chapter?

Why is it so important for Mrs. Bennet to get her daughters married?

Chapter 3: What kind of impression did Darcy make? Was there any other explanation other than bad manners?

Chapter 6: Charlotte Lucas says "a woman had better shew more affection than she feels." Do you agree? Was that good advice during Jane Austen's time, but poor advice today? Why or why not?

Charlotte also says that happiness in marriage is entirely a matter of chance. Does this have a ring of truth?

Chapter 7: What is entailment? Much of P&P's plot centers around entailment. There is a lecture on line about entailment at last year's Jane Austen Summer Program: https://janeaustensummer.org/teaching....

Mr. Bennet had at least one chance to have input into who received his property, but he decided to give it to a male. However, he made this decision before he had five daughters! Later, we will find that Lady Catherine's father allowed his daughters to inherit so Mr. Bennet could have made a decision to go to his family first. If you want more details on this, you can read this article: https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cg...

A wonderful musical of Pride and Prejudice premiered tonight and can be seen free for the next few days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2U_Q...

This is advertising Lucy Worsley's young adult book, but the podcast does say it covers Jane Austen too. https://www.teaandtattlepodcast.com/h...

☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 1: The book starts with one of the best opening sentences of any book. Can you think of other great opening lines? How do you interpret this sentence - witty, sarcastic, the truth? Does it ..."

Do you think maybe it's all three? I read it as tongue-in-cheek.

I really love the dynamic between Mr. and Mrs. Bennet. I can only speculate as to why he married her, perhaps he wanted someone to tease for the rest of his life? Her reactions would provide entertainment for sure.

☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 7: What is entailment? Much of P&P's plot centers around entailment. There is a lecture on line about entailment at last year's Jane Austen Summer Program: https://janeaustensummer.org/teac..."

So, correct me if my understanding is wrong, but for whatever reason Mr. Bennet had elected to have a male receive the property. But in actuality, in England at the time, he could've vetoed that later and given it to a daughter instead? So, while an important driver of the story, in real life this situation wouldn't have happened?

☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 3: What kind of impression did Darcy make? Was there any other explanation other than bad manners?"

Sorry, I'm going to be making multiple replies because I feel like one text post would be waaaaay too long. xD

Do you suppose some of it could've been just shyness or self-consciousness? I've been mistaken as a cold person before when in actuality I was out of my comfort zone and extremely self-conscious because I knew almost no one.

☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 6: Charlotte Lucas says "a woman had better shew more affection than she feels." Do you agree? Was that good advice during Jane Austen's time, but poor advice today? Why or why not?

Charlo..."

I suppose in situations like this, where the quality of your life is dependent on your husband, it makes sense to do everything possible to ensure you get the best match. It sounds very transactional but I suppose that's how many people in the book view it. I would veto following this today, women don't have to be economically dependent on men if they don't want to be.

I would also say Charlotte's assessment is somewhat correct, provided both people in the marriage are relatively emotionally healthy and mature. Humans are really good at making the best of any circumstances. But since we don't have to force ourselves today to be happy when we might not otherwise be, I see no point in forcing it. I hope that makes sense.

Anastasia Kinderman wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 7: What is entailment? Much of P&P's plot centers around entailment. There is a lecture on line about entailment at last year's Jane Austen Summer Program: https://janeausten..."

After reading several different articles, I am still not sure. Austin did write this book much earlier than the others and the laws changed sometime in the early 1800's. Perhaps that is the explanation as to why Mr. Bennet couldn't do anything at this time.

☯Emily wrote: "Anastasia Kinderman wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 7: What is entailment? Much of P&P's plot centers around entailment. There is a lecture on line about entailment at last year's Jane Austen Summer..."

That would make sense. Perhaps according the old system this was how it would be.
Good thing they changed it!

I just started Death Comes to Pemberley and P. D. James indicates that the events in Pride in Prejudice took place in 1797 which is before the laws changed.

Chapter 8: What are the social differences between Darcy and Elizabeth? Is there much difference between Caroline Bingley's pursuit of Darcy and Lydia chasing soldiers?

Chapter 9: How does Mrs. Bennet's behavior embarrass Elizabeth? How did Elizabeth and Jane learn correct behavior?

Chapter 11: What is it about Elizabeth that attracts Darcy?

Chapter 14: Mr. Collins choses to read portions of Fordyce's Sermons to the Bennet sisters. I have a link to a portion of this book: http://individual.utoronto.ca/dftaylo....

This excerpt (if you have the patience to read it) condemns reading novels and witty women.

Chapter 15 begins with a little background of Mr. Collins. How is he a product of his upbringing? Why do you think Lady Catherine gave him the 'living?' Would Elizabeth be a good wife for him? Would she get along with Lady Catherine? Which of the Bennet sisters would probably be the best choice for Mr. Collins?

Chapter 16: Is Elizabeth's conversation with Mr. Wickham inappropriate? Why do you think she enjoyed getting the dirt on Darcy?

Chapter 17: Elizabeth states that she believes Wickham because "There was truth in his looks." What does she mean?

Chapter 18: Did Elizabeth enjoy the ball? How did her family make her ashamed and upset? Was Darcy right to consider the behavior of her family as a reflection on Elizabeth?

Chapter 19: A hilarious proposal! Why couldn't Mr. Collins believe Elizabeth?

Chapter 22: Why did Charlotte Lucas want to marry Mr. Collins? What options did single women have in the late 1790's? Did many women marry for love? Do you think Charlotte will be happy with her choice? How do you think she will get along with Lady Catherine?

☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 8: What are the social differences between Darcy and Elizabeth? Is there much difference between Caroline Bingley's pursuit of Darcy and Lydia chasing soldiers?"

I suppose one is considered acceptable by society and one isn't? One is focused on securing a comfortable life and one is focused on the frivolous pleasures of the now?

Emily, have you gotten very far in your book? Do you feel like it's true to the original characters? Just curious because I feel like there's a lot of pressure when you write something like that.

☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 9: How does Mrs. Bennet's behavior embarrass Elizabeth? How did Elizabeth and Jane learn correct behavior?"

I would say she is unable to take social cues and her opinions are "blown about by the wind" so to speak. There's nothing inherently wrong with speaking one's mind but you need to be mindful of the situation and she is not.
Also, if you're going to be as emphatic as she is....it should be thought through. She declares with absolute certainty something one day and then changes it to the extreme opposite, the next.

Society may have changed but there are still people today who do this. I feel like Elizabeth and Jane might possibly be more emotionally perceptive than their mother and sisters. Elizabeth spends a lot of time attempting to discern what others think and feel based on their behavior and she's sensitive to sudden mood changes. So they probably observed how people responded to their mother and did the opposite. I would say they're also more perceptive than their father. Or maybe he sees but just doesn't care....?

What do you think?

☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 11: What is it about Elizabeth that attracts Darcy?"

I feel like it's a common trope for the emotionally unavailable, well-off man to fall for the woman who tells him off. So I would say he probably finds it refreshing that she doesn't hide what she thinks.

That being said, I was wondering what you think of the trope. Is it realistic? In my experience, most people don't like being told they're wrong, so is it really as common as romance story lines would have us believe?

Anastasia Kinderman wrote: "Emily, have you gotten very far in your book? Do you feel like it's true to the original characters? Just curious because I feel like there's a lot of pressure when you write something like that."

Are you referring to Death Comes to Pemberley? It started off great, but went down hill from there. There was a lot of rehashing of P&P in the book with references to Emma and Persuasion. The focus was on Darcy and not Elizabeth which was disappointing.

Anastasia Kinderman wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 11: What is it about Elizabeth that attracts Darcy?"

I feel like it's a common trope for the emotionally unavailable, well-off man to fall for the woman who tells him off. S..."

I know quite a few couples who are opposites. Many search (probably unconsciously) for someone who complements them and that is what I think P&P is about.

Anastasia Kinderman wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 9: How does Mrs. Bennet's behavior embarrass Elizabeth? How did Elizabeth and Jane learn correct behavior?"

I would say she is unable to take social cues and her opinions ar..."

I would say that Mr. Bennet sees, but no longer cares, because there is nothing he can do to stop Mrs. Bennet. He obviously married beneath him socially. Some women would learn how to act appropriately, but Mrs. Bennet never did.

☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 15 begins with a little background of Mr. Collins. How is he a product of his upbringing? Why do you think Lady Catherine gave him the 'living?' Would Elizabeth be a good wife for him? Woul..."

Elizabeth would not be a good choice for Mr. Collins. Jane would probably be the best if there wasn't Mr. Bingley just because she is practical and would be able to run a household with economy. Next choice would be Mary. But Mary is so absorbed in her piano and book that I am not sure if she would be able to run a household.

☯Emily wrote: "Anastasia Kinderman wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 9: How does Mrs. Bennet's behavior embarrass Elizabeth? How did Elizabeth and Jane learn correct behavior?"

I would say she is unable to take soc..."

He was worn down lol

Charlene wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "Chapter 15 begins with a little background of Mr. Collins. How is he a product of his upbringing? Why do you think Lady Catherine gave him the 'living?' Would Elizabeth be a good wif..."

Yes, I think Mary would feel put upon and not be up to it.

I loved the first Volume of 'Pride and Prejudice' the best. It is so witty and entertaining, especially when the absurd Mr. Collins propses to Elizabeth. I love the book 'Pride and Prejudice' so much.