Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

Thanks to everyone who commented on the planning thread. With all that's been happening lately, I totally forgot.
Welcome to our discussion of The Way We Live Now by Anthony Trollope.

I have been reading this book with another group for a little while and am enjoying it a lot, even though it is very long.

Read this a long time ago, but will reread because Trollope is just so good.

That's good to hear, Gilbert.

I’ll be joining in soon.

Great, Kathy!

I’ll be joining in too, i haven’t read this before.

Glad you could join us, Georgina!

Reading chapter XVII: "Marie Melmotte hears a Love Tale".
Not to be a spoiler, but there is a line Trollope includes a couple of pages in that appears to be lifted virtually word-for-word from next quarter's hefty read, "Tom Jones". Trollope's line reads: "He is born to be hung".

I wouldn't be at all surprised at that, Gilbert.

I've been reading a little bit and was interested in how slick this Sir Felix was. Especially in his card games.

Felix is quite a character! Not a very nice character either.

nope

I’ve finished 10 chapters and think a lot so far is about money and class.

I agree with that, Kathy-and in that order. Money comes first.

Yes - it's money, money money!

Thanx to ABBA FOR:
I work all night, I work all day
To pay the bills I have to pay
Ain't it sad
And still there never seems to be
A single penny left for me
That's too bad
In my dreams I have a plan
If I got me a wealthy man
I wouldn't have to work at all
I'd fool around and have a ball
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man's world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man's world
Aha, aha
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It's a rich man's world
A man like that is hard to find
But I can't get him off my mind
Ain't it sad
And if he happens to be free
I bet he wouldn't fancy me
That's too bad
So I must leave, I'll have to go
To Las Vegas or Monaco
And win a fortune in a game
My life will never be the same
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man's world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man's world
Aha, aha
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It's a rich man's world

There is also the song from Cabaret: Money makes the World go Round

So many songs about money. Here's one of my faves from Badfinger by way of "The Magic Christian";
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3TOc...

Thank you so much for that, Gilbert. It brings back memories of high school!

I remember that song! Thanks Gilbert. I didn't know that Paul McCartney wrote it.

Up to chapter LXIII.
The further I read this story the more it makes me compare it to some incidents of recent years and days.

Trollope wrote this novel because he was disgusted with the way the society of the time was developing.
Roger represents the old school were honour and morals still counted for something.
The gamblers and Melmotte are at the other end of the scale- they have few scruples, or none like Miles and Felix.

Finished! Great Trollope.
On to the next hefty, not "Tom Jones".

I enjoyed this one too, Gilbert.

still reading it. A little disgusted with Sir Felix and Melmotte. I feel like they were the template for Gordon Gekko. I'm waiting for one of them to say " greed is good."

Sir Felix has no redeeming qualities-just a pretty face.

I'm still reading too. Sir Felix is awful.

And his mother is such an enabler!

not so sure about this Mrs Hurtle. is she a con woman or is she really I move with Paul? There are so many twists and side plots to this story.

Mrs. Hurtle is an interesting character.
And I agree with you, Shannon. There are a lot of twists and turns.

Melmonte is so awful that he believes "accusations as these were mere lies till they were proved" So he is not really doing something bad until someone proves it and calls him out. Those accusations were real.

Melmotte thinks only of what he can get away with, not whether it's honest or not.

I'm about 70% through with the book. I hope one of those guys, Sir Felix or Mr Melmonte , gets it in the end. I feel really bad for Marie. she just seems to get the short end of the stick.

I feel sorry for Marie too. She is treated like an object by her father.
And Felix is just bad news all round.

I finished the book! This is indeed an accomplishment since it is so long. About halfway through I though I'd have to quit reading because Mr. Melmotte caused me such anguish. (I have emotional reactions when I read...) Not to mention Sir Felix, Lady Carbury, Mrs. Hurtle and even Paul Montague. But I persevered (helped by an audiobook) and ended up enjoying the stories of all these characters. (view spoiler)[Plus the demise of Melmotte made up for all the sorrow I experienced at his hands. Of course, I liked the happy endings for many of the characters. (hide spoiler)]

I found the ending of this book particularly satisfying.

I'm almost done. glad to hear the ending is satisfying.

This was my comment in another group after recently finishing The Way We Live Now:
(view spoiler)[ I thought this was a very interesting magnum opus for Trollope especially that:

1. Trollope has created an ensemble cast with many supporting characters and no one character, or even one relationship, takes center stage for long, I did think that any of these could be the central character at one time:
Felix – the story starts as if he will be the central figure but, as the story develops, he is revealed as too singularly bad of a person to be a central character; however, the story does then end with a reference to Felix’s fate;
Melmotte – so much of the story and character's actions revolve around him yet one spends much of the book before his viewpoint even enters and, ultimately, he dies well before the end, or in TV terms, with 2 episodes left;
Paul – possibly the hero during the middle portion but he fades at the end. The last of the ending sequence chapters is on Paul/Hetta/Roger, which is probably the novel's central relationship, yet it is seen from Roger’s view and, while Hetta gets some dialogue, Paul is a barely mentioned person - we see nothing through Paul’s view and don't get a look at his real feelings at the end. Paul does also has a part in the chapter detailing Mrs. Hurtle’s ending story but, again, it is a subordinate part.

2. The railroad is, as Phrod would have pointed out, a McGuffin in the story. For all the talk at the beginning, I thought there would be more details about the non-construction of the rail line or anything about its failure or progress – instead it is a side detail barely worth talking about which serves only to set up the story and is forgotten about.

3. I thought this was a very good Trollope novel, While I enjoy the light touch of Trollope, I did like that in this novel he was sharper with his daggers when portraying English society and, as said before, creates sympathetic American and Jewish characters besides. I think that the magnitude of this story and characters, along with the sharper digs, makes this the best of Trollope’s stand alones that I've read. However, I prefer the more focused and genteel story and settings of both Framley Parsonage and Barchester Towers – and the more witty satire of Barchester Towers. I admire TWWLN a lot but I confess to having had a more satisfied and pleasant feeling at the end of other Trollope novels. (hide spoiler)]

I appreciate your comments, Brian. They help me focus more on the stories rather than my emotional reactions! I hadn't thought of it but, yes, they pretty much dropped the railroad story.

This is my first Trollope. Which series of Trollope's do you recommend?

I like Complete Barchester Chronicles. My favourites are Barchester Towers, Doctor Thorne and Framley Parsonage, but they're all good.

I would agree with Rosemarie and recommend you start with the first few of the 6 books of Chronicles of Barsetshire series. (Barsetshire is the county, Barchester the city) because:

- the 1st book The Warden has a lovable character and is relatively short so is a good introduction to the series and the clergy conflict; then
- the 2nd book, Barchester Towers has the best non-romance story with excellent villainous characters along with more on the high versus low church conflict within the Anglican clergy; then there's
- the 3rd book, Doctor Thorne, which many think has the best romance story; then
- the 4th book, Framley Parsonage, which I think has the best heroine and romance;

Then the last 2 books are also pretty good too with a great crabby but likable old man, frustrating but fun to criticize romantic leads, interesting plots and romances, and more clergy conflicts. I've read the series twice and plan a third read when I'm about 75.

Thanks Rosemarie and Brian for the recommendations. Those are great descriptions of each book, Brian! I happen to have a copy of The Warden, so I'll start with that when I can.

I just finished the book. After reading that, kind of romantic, second to last chapter I think Lady Cadbury could be the main character. It seems that a lot of the story was linked to her some how. Trying to get her novels published, marrying her children off, even getting mixed up with Melmotte via Felix.

That is an interesting viewpoint, Shannon, and it does make sense. She may not be the main character, but she is the focus of a lot of the action.

I’ve just finished, I have to admit I lost focus during the middle part so this took me a little longer to get through than I’d hoped.
As you've said Brian there is no one central character although it does all link back to Lady Cadbury. I thought the way all these different characters stories were woven together was brilliant, but for me it felt at times like there were too many different threads to follow all at once and no likeable characters to get behind.
I enjoyed the last third of the book the best as things finally started to get resolved.

I'm glad that everyone got what they deserved-more or less.

I thought that Lady Cadbury was not enough of a participant in the main action to be the main character. The main romantic plots and Melmotte connections only affect her indirectly through her children.
However, as there appears to really be no main character, I admit that Lady Cadbury does get a lot of 'screen time.' Lady Cadbury is the hub of many of the novels's subplots: her coddling of Felix; her disregard of her daughter's welfare; her dealing with the editors and her romance with the editor. The chapters with all these subplots are presented from Lady Cadbury's point of view. I'd say it's the There are enough subplots that I can see how it is easy to lose focus in the middle of this 1000 page tome. As pointed out, the last third, leading to the resolutions, makes up for it.
Perhaps, we could say that the Carbury family is the main character. Wikipedia states that, in his notes planning the novel, Trollope did refer to it as the "Carbury novel."
Thanks to Shannon and Georgina, I spelt it as Cadbury most of this post without thinking about it. Reminds me that we still have a few creme eggs left from Easter as no grandkids and kids came over to eat them.

My autocorrect got the better of me. My Easter chocolate was gone weeks ago, I could just eat a creme egg now too!

Same here. Silly auto correct and silly rabbit. ;)