2015: The Year of Reading Women discussion

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Proustitute (on hiatus) (proustitute) | 283 comments Mod
Discussion and group reads for Jeanette Winterson.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanette...


message 2: by Bloodorange (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments I would like to read Why Be Happy When You Could Be Normal? this year; I realize that ideally this should be read back-to-back with Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit - would anyone like to read these with me?


message 3: by Chinook (new)

Chinook | 29 comments I meant to do that this year and didn't get around to it. When are you thinking?


message 4: by Bloodorange (last edited Dec 24, 2014 11:14AM) (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments I already have a group read amenth until mid- or late September, apart from March [edit: I meant April] and July, which are gard for me at work. On the other hand, I know you have a little baby - first of all, do you think it would be easier for you to read now or in the fall?


message 5: by Chinook (new)

Chinook | 29 comments Either is fine, really. I read when she naps. For now, that's fairly often.


message 6: by Bloodorange (last edited Dec 24, 2014 12:09PM) (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments Oh shoot. I thought I can suggest March (make hay while the baby sleeps well), but it turns out I have two reads scheduled already, which crystallized yesterday and today, and I didn't remember. April is difficult; I have two reads scheduled for May, etc. On the whole, I'm free beginning with mid-September. Should this be too late for you, or should the situation on your end change dramatically (I don't know how old my daughter was when she decided that vomiting every evening was all the rage), I'll understand.


message 7: by Chinook (new)

Chinook | 29 comments Oh I really hope vomiting every evening doesn't become a thing! Sept sounds fine, excepting anything like that!


message 8: by Bloodorange (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments September, then! And obviously I did not want to sound like one of those Mums of Doom, sorry! I just wanted to say I'll understand if you suddenly have less reading time or whatever.


message 9: by Bloodorange (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments When would you rather start? on Sept 1st or 14th? Or some other date?


message 10: by Chinook (new)

Chinook | 29 comments Either one suits me. We're starting with Oranges, right?


message 11: by Bloodorange (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments We can start with Oranges, or read both at once, comparing things as we go (but I'm not sure to what extent they overlap).

I think we could start early, on Sept 1st.


message 12: by Chinook (new)

Chinook | 29 comments Sept 1st sounds good. I think I'd prefer to read one, then the other.


message 13: by Bloodorange (last edited Dec 28, 2014 12:13PM) (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments OK. I'll try to set up a thread for Oranges for September, then. Would you like me to set up a thread for Why Be Happy... for October, or the third week of September? (Oranges is less than 200 pages).


message 14: by Chinook (new)

Chinook | 29 comments Third week then?


message 15: by Bloodorange (last edited Dec 28, 2014 01:06PM) (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments I've posted announcements, scheduling each for three weeks, the second one tentatively (it's a tad longer, but should be feasible). I'll create discussion threads in August, I think.


message 16: by Chinook (new)

Chinook | 29 comments Great!


message 17: by Bloodorange (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments Hi,
To unearth the thread: This will probably be the place where we will discuss Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit - that is, unless more of us gather:)


message 18: by Zanna (new)

Zanna (zannastar) | 337 comments I'm in for Why Be Happy?


message 19: by Bloodorange (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments Great:)


message 20: by Bloodorange (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments @Chinook: So I think we will discuss Oranges here, and move to a separate thread with Why Be Happy :) I'm reading the foreword, and intend to read the first part this week. Do you have a hard copy? I think we could try to read the first one-third.


message 21: by Alexa (new)

Alexa (AlexaNC) | 55 comments I just read Oranges in June and completely loved it!


message 22: by Bloodorange (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments Thanks, Alexa! I read this, oh my, I've just counted the years o_0, and don't remember anything, so thanks for saying you loved it!


message 23: by Chinook (new)

Chinook | 29 comments My copy is on Kindle - a third sounds fine. What day are we aiming for to discuss?


message 24: by Bloodorange (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments Usually it would be hard for me to aim for one specific day, I just write here and there and can't promise I'll sit in front of the computer (but should have more time Friday). Plus, we might have a time difference. Let's just try posting our remarks when we can - if this doesn't work (I haven't tried this with just one other reader), we'll figure out something else.


message 25: by Chinook (new)

Chinook | 29 comments Sounds good.


message 26: by Zanna (new)

Zanna (zannastar) | 337 comments Alexa wrote: "I just read Oranges in June and completely loved it!"

I adored it too, one of my favourite books ever


message 27: by Bloodorange (last edited Sep 02, 2015 09:00AM) (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments @Zanna: I'm still reading the introduction, but even this makes me recall how much I loved her voice:)

@Chinook: Do you have the introduction in which she writes about coloured knickers, Rupert Murdoch and spiral narrative structure? I liked how she explained non-linear patterns.


message 28: by Alexa (new)

Alexa (AlexaNC) | 55 comments My copy didn't have that - which edition are you reading?


message 29: by Bloodorange (last edited Sep 02, 2015 08:44AM) (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments Random House ebook, with her 1991 introduction.


message 30: by Zanna (new)

Zanna (zannastar) | 337 comments lol @Bloodorange mine didn't have that either


message 31: by Bloodorange (last edited Sep 02, 2015 08:59AM) (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments A few excerpts from the introduction - hidden as spoilers, since the post is too long:

(view spoiler)


message 32: by Alexa (new)

Alexa (AlexaNC) | 55 comments Oh thanks! And that left me greedy for more! I'll have to go browse some bookstores or libraries I guess. I imagine that's the voice we'll be hearing more of in Why Be Happy (which I have not yet read). I wouldn't want to have read that before reading Oranges for the first time though, which I thought was best approached as a completely blank slate.


message 33: by Zanna (new)

Zanna (zannastar) | 337 comments I have all her books on TBR, <3 her


message 34: by Bloodorange (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments I'm at 14% at the moment, and cant'r get over the quality of the protagonist's homeschooling. I also can't stop wondering what the recipe was for mother's cheese and onion sandwiches (I guess these were served hot?) But seriously - I love how simple and yet intricate Winterson's writing is; she shows how much a child actually sees. Her protagonist notices very much about her environment, and leaves it for us to interpret.


message 35: by Bloodorange (new)

Bloodorange (pani_od_angielskiego) | 618 comments I'm at the beginning of 'Leviticus' at the moment, and I think I will put Oranges aside for the weekend - have two more books to catch up on - but will gladly read your comments:)

As before - I am captivated by how Winterson is able o convey the simple/childlike perception of her protagonist and her precociousness, and fuse it, almost imperceptibly, with the adult narrator's point of view:
[My mother] loved and she hated, and she hated Maxi Ball. Once, in winter, she had been forced to go there to buy a corset and in the middle of communion, that very Sunday, a piece of whalebone slipped out and stabbed her right in the stomach. There was nothing she could do for an hour. When we got home she tore up the corset and used the whalebone as supports for our geraniums, except for one piece that she gave to me. I still have it, and whenever I’m tempted to cut corners I think about that whalebone and I know better.
She takes what would constitute the trivial/ horrifying "I was raised by Evangelical Christians" memoir/ supermarket reading material, and uses it to say something universal.
My needlework teacher suffered from a problem of vision. She recognized things according to expectation and environment. If you were in a particular place, you
expected to see particular things. Sheep and hills, sea and fish; if there was an elephant in the supermarket, she’d either not see it at all, or call it Mrs Jones and talk about fishcakes. But most likely, she’d do what most people do when confronted with something they don’t understand:
Panic.
It is interesting how she represents lack of tolerance for religious people in the modern society (I myself am inclined to see people she is raised by as somewhat ferocious and to be avoided, so...).

I love her portrayal of Elsie - a woman who sees her and helps her grow, a very positive face of devout religiousness. I want to see whether we encounter anyone like that in Why Be Happy When You Could Be Normal?.

The deafness episode scared me. The neglect! The way of explaining her state! The mother reminds me of Mrs. Jellyby from Bleak House (my favourite Dickens so far) - a mother so engrossed in aiding the missionary work in Africa that she completely - and comically - neglects her own numerous children and household. I do realize this is a part of patriarchal propaganda ("this is what happens when women get involved in grand causes"), but as a person who has tendencies to focus more on work than on my family I cannot deny this may be a problem. Also, I do realize that both in Bleak House and Oranges women's frantic activity within her religious community might have been the only way of achieving (real of imagined) self-actualization.


message 36: by Zanna (new)

Zanna (zannastar) | 337 comments I'd forgotten about the deafness! Indeed it's disturbing. My mum was always very attentive so i can't imagine it


message 37: by Alexa (new)

Alexa (AlexaNC) | 55 comments Bloodorange wrote: "As before - I am captivated by how Winterson is able to convey the simple/childlike perception of her protagonist and her precociousness, and fuse it, almost imperceptibly, with the adult narrator's point of view..."

Yes! This is such an excellent point - I think this is part of what gives this such a magical quality.


message 38: by Zanna (new)

Zanna (zannastar) | 337 comments Is there a thread for why be happy?


message 39: by Bloodorange (last edited Sep 20, 2015 07:14AM) (new)


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