Children's Books discussion

Join us in February for one of my childhood favorites,

Thimble Summer by Elizabeth Enright. None of the covers shown match my memory, so I'm off to search the web!

This is the image I remember best.

Cheryl wrote: "

This is the image I remember best."

Beautiful!

I've never read this, though it's been on my list for ages. Not sure I will get to it this month but that illustration sure is enticing ;-)

Next month... February... I just set up this thread early.
Sorry for any confusion!

Just got my copy! I can't wait to read this one.

Oh, I saw that. No worries. I just meant I probably wouldn't get to reading it any time soon ;-)

Getting excited to read this!
Unfortunately I don't own a copy, and forgot to get it at the library last time I was there, so I might be a few days late.

Picked it up today - got lucky!

And also just learned of a lovely coincidence. Over in the Fiction Club (https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...) we're reading another book by Elizabeth Enright.
The Saturdays was published just a few years after this Newbery Winner. I have read that book, and I gave it 4 stars. I'm going to reread both... and I think it'd be great if we can converse & compare the two.

Cheryl wrote: "Picked it up today - got lucky!

And also just learned of a lovely coincidence. Over in the Fiction Club (https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/......"

And Elizabeth Enright also won a Newbery honor medal in 1958 for Gone-Away Lake

That's true - so we'll be discussing that later too.

What a wonderful story! I love books that take me back to the good old days when families, neighbors and communities all helped each other. Work is a daily expectation and children take part as a natural part of their lives. Fun is not store-bought and loving the outdoors is where the entertainment is found. I liked the character of Garnet - she's feisty and independent, loves her family (most of the time) and finds magic in a simple silver thimble. Some of this story is based on the remembrances of the author's own life growing up in Wisconsin. Next to the Little House books, this story also gives another taste of what life was like in the past. A good book for children to read.

I'm so glad you liked this. You bring up good points about the expectations of children back then. I grew up in Wisconsin, and did real chores, and usually played (or read) outside, rather than playing with store-bought toys, too... so I empathize quite a bit with Garnet, even though she's so much more outgoing than I was.

I enjoyed floating off in reader land to spend a pleasant summer on a Wisconsin family farm in the 1930s. I was slightly jarred when Garnet's friend Citronella and Citronella's (dare I say comic relief) mother were both described as being fat. The illustrations in my copy showed quite a normal looking Citronella, not fat at all.

Steve wrote: "I enjoyed floating off in reader land to spend a pleasant summer on a Wisconsin family farm in the 1930s. I was slightly jarred when Garnet's friend Citronella and Citronella's (dare I say comic re..."

I liked that "fat" was not used to describe this family - just the word "fleshy"!!!

Tricia wrote: "Steve wrote: "I enjoyed floating off in reader land to spend a pleasant summer on a Wisconsin family farm in the 1930s. I was slightly jarred when Garnet's friend Citronella and Citronella's (dare ..."

That's interesting. In your edition they are called 'fleshy'. The one I read used the word 'fat'. So it seems there has been a little editing since the initial edition.

Interesting indeed. I remember having the exact reaction Steve did, and the word was fat. The edition I'm reading this time is newer - I'll read carefully for that word.

I just ordered 3 of her books and can't wait to start reading them. I think the editions are newer so I'll be watching for fat vs fleshy.

My edition says fat, in the first place, but fleshy when we load the rest of the Hausers into the Lindens' car. But anyway I think it's ok to take the word casually - different context and all. I remember some older books about teen girls who felt themselves 'scrawny' and envied their 'plump' schoolmates.

Cheryl wrote: "My anniversary edition says fat. But I think it's ok to take the word casually - different context and all. I remember some older books about teen girls who felt themselves 'scrawny' and envied t..."

I hope to start my read this weekend at the latest. And for me, I think "fleshy" actually sounds rather worse than "fat"

I'm about 1/2way done. It's so hard for me to read this with any objective distance at all. I did love it so much when I was a child, and am thoroughly enjoying it now. This time I'm particularly noticing the attention to detail and the graceful language with brilliant metaphors. Right at the beginning, the sky 'skin like a drum.'

I always liked the trousers Garnet wore to the kiln, flap buttoned in front, lace-up back. Has anyone seen that style before? In fact, I always loved all the art. The children seem so graceful & strong, healthy & lively.

I'm noticing this time the inserted stories like the Coral Bracelet and The Stranger... shades of The Saturdays with Mrs. Oliphant, and Pearl and the separate adventure each Saturday. Enright had too many ideas and wanted to get them all down? Or was it a style choice to appeal to young readers? Or... what do you think?

Cheryl wrote: "My anniversary edition says fat. But I think it's ok to take the word casually - different context and all. I remember some older books about teen girls who felt themselves 'scrawny' and envied t..."

Cheryl,Does Citronella look overweight at all in the book's illustrations? In the edition I read, she looked like a normal kid. Oh, and I agree that the word 'fat' is no big deal. Just wonder if it would be used as it was in a story today.

Steve, I'm confident we all see the same illustrations - Enright was an artist and illustrated this and the Melendy Quartet herself. And I do agree with you - she's not as lean as most 11 year-olds were back then, and will probably get heavier after she has children, but imo she's perfectly fine.

And I'm done. Just so sweet & wholesome, and fun, too.

But what was special about it? Why did the Newbery committee give it the medal?

I read this as a child, but never liked it as much as Enright's Melendy or Gone Away books, which I'd read first. I'm not sure why I felt a bit let down by this one. Maybe the characters aren't as memorable? Maybe because there was no sequel? Anyway, I haven't reread it in about three decades, so I'm excited to be able to give it a fresh look now, and see if I still feel the same about it. I read the first chapter aloud to my 11 year old son last night. He's enjoyed Enright's other books, so I expect I'll be able to continue with it (unlike Bright Island, which he got bored with).

My copy is a 1966 reprint, and the first mention of Citronella describes her as "a fat little girl." I have mixed feelings about it. It could simply be a descriptive word (in truth, many people are fatter than others, and ideally I think that we should accept differences in size without making a judgement). However, it rubs me a bit the wrong way here because I have a feeling that we're meant to be amused by Citronella's outlandish name, so I'm sensing some condescension towards her from Enright, which is very uncharacteristic.

I never felt that Citronella's name was outlandish - I thought it lovely (as no doubt her mother did). I accepted her as fatter than Garnet in just the way you would hope we could, just as simply differently shaped.

We do all have our own ideas that influence how we interpret what we read, don't we?

I've thought about that chapter a lot over the decades. I *think* it would be wonderful to be locked in the library - but being scared & hungry is probably more realistic. And of course the parents worried, too.

We just read the locked in the library chapter last night. It's the part of the book I remember the best from childhood. I can relate to Garnet's initial excitement -- and her horror when Citronella points out they'll be in the library over Sunday. The grown-ups' worry is certainly very lightly touched on! I looked up "Duchess Olga," the book Citronella reads, and am disappointed to find that it doesn't seem to be a real title, or if it is, it's a very obscure one.

Emily wrote: "We just read the locked in the library chapter last night. It's the part of the book I remember the best from childhood. I can relate to Garnet's initial excitement -- and her horror when Citronel..."

And today, if one were locked in like that, a call on a cell phone would probably be all that would be required (but the library in Garnet's day might not even have had a pay phone and many families still did not have phones anyhow).

We finished the book last night. I enjoyed it more this time than I have in the past. Perhaps reading aloud helps. My son laughed a lot when Garnet chased the chicken into the furniture store.

I mentioned above that I hadn't read the book since childhood, but later saw that when I first added it to my goodreads shelves, I marked it as read in 1998 (I used to keep lists in notebooks that I transcribed), which was when I was in my late twenties. So I'd read it at least twice before, possibly more, and I'm really surprised that the only part I remembered clearly was the library chapter.

Enright's books are often episodic, but I think this one is more so than the others, and I think that because I find it a little choppy and disjointed, it doesn't make as much of a strong overall impression on me as Enright's other books do. One of Enright's favorite devices is to insert stories told by elderly people in to the narrative, like the coral bracelet chapter here. I think that in her other books, like The Saturdays, this is worked more smoothly into narrative. Also, after the chapter when Eric is introduced, he kind of fades away into the background. He's mentioned, but we just don't see a lot of him, until the end. This is not to say that I didn't enjoy the book. I did -- reading it felt like breathing fresh air. I just don't feel it hangs together as well as it could.

One part that interested me was the chapter at the end, when Eric tells Garnet and Jay about the droughts in Kansas he's experienced. Although we know that Garnet's father has some money worries, that brief mention of the dust bowl is really the only hint in this book that life in the 1930s was quite a struggle for great numbers of people (I wonder if the money for the barn was part of some kind of New Deal program). When you skim through the reviews on goodreads, you see a lot of appreciation for simpler times and the innocent pleasures of a wholesome life style, and the honest fruits of hard work. I bet that to a lot of people who were reading the book when it was first published (for example, children in cities whose parents struggled to find work) such a life was just as refreshingly different from their own experience as it is from ours.

I empathize with all you say.

What I'm most wondering about is why it won the Newbery....
Of course, we have no way of knowing for sure, but:
Any guesses?

Could it be that there just weren't any other reasonable choices? The honor books from that year (which we'll be discussing next month) are:

Mr. Popper's Penguins by Richard Atwater
Nino by Valenti Angelo
Hello, the Boat! by Phyllis Crawford
Leader by Destiny: George Washington, Man & Patriot by Jeanette Eaton
Penn by Elizabeth Gray Vining (aka Elizabeth Janet Gray)

None of them look real strong to me...

I would say that purely in terms of the quality of the writing, Thimble Summer is head and shoulders above the two books on the honor list that I've read (Mr. Popper's Penguins and Hello, the Boat!). For amusement value, Mr. Popper's Penguins might have an edge, but I guess the medal tends to be weighted more towards the literary than to the funny.

Not that Enright isn't funny, but it's much more subtle. I loved this description of chickens "pausing on one foot and shooting startled glances at nothing in particular."

Also, I tried searching for children's books published in 1938 that might have missed an honor entirely, but didn't come up with anything good that would have been eligible. Maybe Thimble Summer really was simply the best!

That is a great line! I do love the book, but I never found it to be heavily literary, much less educational like the historical fiction the Newbery Committee had a habit of picking. Which is a good thing, because winning the medal kept this book in print and available to the children who don't need the shiniest new adventure stories. ( Imnsho.;)

I loved Thimble Summer, which I read for the first time today. I thoroughly enjoyed the author's story-telling style. Many of the chapters were close to being stand-alone short stories. I did enjoy the subtle humor that Emily mentioned above. I guess my favorite line was when Garnet's exasperated mother, so busy with the garden all season, exclaimed, "Beans don't know when to quit."

Garnet's perspective has such a ring of truth. Her stories are almost eerily similar to those of my mother who was a farm girl in the 1930's in Michigan.

I don't know how this book got past me in my growing-up years, but I am very happy I had the chance to read it now.

Karol wrote: "I loved Thimble Summer, which I read for the first time today. I thoroughly enjoyed the author's story-telling style. Many of the chapters were close to being stand-alone short stori..."

I'm still in the middle of it, but one thing that I found so refreshingly different from the Little House on the Prairie series is how Citronella's great grandmother describes Native Americans coming in to warm themselves at the family hearth. They are not described negatively, and in fact, they always leave a form of payment (and this is both accepted and appreciated by the settlers). Caroline Ingalls would have had a conniption.

Karol wrote: "I loved Thimble Summer, which I read for the first time today. I thoroughly enjoyed the author's story-telling style. Many of the chapters were close to being stand-alone short stori..."

And the stories are not doom and gloom either, I've just had it with some of the more recent "doom and gloom" Depression era stories.

Gundula wrote: "And the stories are not doom and gloom either, I've just had it with some of the more recent "doom and gloom" Depression era stories. "

I'm with you, Gundula. I know the times were hard in the Depression era. But when my mom talks about those years, the hardness is stated as a simple fact. Overarching that all are stories with a sense of community and adventure, actually - making the best out of all things in life. Even the most simple. Perhaps this is also why the book resonated so much with me.

Karol wrote: "Gundula wrote: "And the stories are not doom and gloom either, I've just had it with some of the more recent "doom and gloom" Depression era stories. "

I'm with you, Gundula. I know the times were..."

Exactly, Karol. My mother cherished her memories of growing up in the depression. Never mind that the orange crop was left to rot and fall to the ground and be bulldozed into a ditch. Never mind that her mother had to turn the place into a sort of dude ranch to make ends meet. Never mind that her dad had to go off to L.A. where he could make some money as a tennis instructor.

My grandma went the other route - she hoarded & reused to the point of ridiculousness. I mean, reusing the image from a greeting card to make a gift tag is one thing - but then reusing that gift tag? Even though she still had a box in the closet full of uncut greeting cards? I've heard that kind of behavior is common for those who survived the Depression.

I wonder why more isn't made of making do and making over in this book - it could certainly be handled without being all bleak doom & gloom.

(Btw, if one is thrify and wants to pass on that value, check out the delightful picture-book I Like Old Clothes.)

Gundula said: And the stories are not doom and gloom either, I've just had it with some of the more recent "doom and gloom" Depression era stories

Which is why I don't read the doom and gloom Depression stories.

Cheryl wrote: "My grandma went the other route - she hoarded & reused to the point of ridiculousness. I mean, reusing the image from a greeting card to make a gift tag is one thing - but then reusing that gift t..."

I also had a grandmother exactly like that. She would chide us if we ripped Christmas wrapping paper, because it could be reused. She saved string and all kinds of rubbish. She chided me once for wanting to put ice in my cold water. She once asked my cousin how many sheets of toilet paper her son was going to use. (My cousin was righteously indignant!)

Yup. Kinda funny, kinda sad, to think what made them that way.

I learned from Elizabeth Enright's autobiographical note in Newbery Medal Books 1922-1955 that she grew up in the urban east. However, in her Acceptance Paper she does mention a summer spent in Wisconsin during a drought, and stories from grandmother, mother, and friends about the kind of farm life a little girl named Garnet might have experienced.

That farm in Spring Green, Wisconsin belonged to her uncle, Frank Lloyd Wright.

http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/WI/WI-idx?type=HTML&rgn=div1&byte=1795094538

Wow, interesting, thank you!

My grandpa taped up holes in ziplock bags so we could reuse them and nailed scrap wood onto broken broom handles instead of just buying a new broom. I don't think he had fond memories of the Depression, though. He mostly described it as a desperate search for part-time work, and his life didn't really get better until he joined the army.

The only other book I've read from this year was Mr. Popper's Penguins, which I enjoyed as a child. I might pick that one as more deserving on the basis of humor and creativity.

When I read Thimble Summer some years ago, I was annoyed by how choppy it was. I feel like a lot of the early Newborns had bad pacing and plot structure. Most of them don't even read like modern books until you get to the late '50s.

So older books don't read like new books? In other news, water found to be wet?

Phil wrote: "My grandpa taped up holes in ziplock bags so we could reuse them and nailed scrap wood onto broken broom handles instead of just buying a new broom. I don't think he had fond memories of the Depres..."

Which is a good thing! I read older books precisely they often do NOT read like modern books. Also, anecdotal and episodic books have their place, and with Thimble Summer, at least all of the episodes are related to farming (although I would agree that the character of Eric is a bit annoying as he seems to be introduced and then disappears for most of the book).

I agree with you there. I like older books for many reasons, and that is one of the main ones. Plus, they bring back memories of reading them for the first time.