Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy" discussion

Sword and Planet topics go here!

My goto guy for S&P is Charles Allen Gramlich, whom I invited to help host this area once we get going.

We've had a few threads over the years on this
2013 discussion thread

2014 S&P Groupread topic

2017 S&P Groupread topic

2014 Image Banner turned out pretty well:

This ought to be a good time to read Enchantress of Venus. (Well, either that or The Gods of Mars if Enchantress isn't swordy enough.)

I think Enchantress is plenty swordy.

I actually just finished reading a whole bunch of Leigh Brackett back in May -- two of the Haffner Press collections of her short stories, Lorelei of the Red Mist: Planetary Romances and Shannach - The Last: Farewell to Mars and holy crap, she was good. Burroughs' Barsoom, with its towers and jeweled princesses and four-armed green-skinned savages will always be my first love, but Brackett's prose is just ... she could write rings around him.

The Ginger Star, The Hounds of Skaith, The Reavers of Skaith -- hmm, are those sword & planet?

Certainly shows the changes. She moved him out of the solar system.

Mary wrote: "The Ginger Star, The Hounds of Skaith, The Reavers of Skaith -- hmm, are those sword & planet?

Certainly shows the changes. She moved him out of the so..."

I'd say absolutely yes, they are; and I really need to read those at some point. I remember seeing them on the paperback spinner in the public library, but never quite got around to taking them home with me.

Joseph wrote: "I really need to read those at some point."

Same! I have them all -- there's just such an abundance of things to read, and so many worthy authors to try, I'm going as fast as I can and it's still not fast enough.

An indie writer friend of mine, L.S. King, has four sword & planet books. I've read the first and the prequel (her latest published, tho). Premise is an advance society's planet is dying and a remnant is ushered through a portal to a more simpler time (thus the sword and fantasy jibe within a science fiction framework). Worth a look, I think. Anyone else hear of these (Sword's Edge Chronicles):
https://www.goodreads.com/series/2348...

A good time to continue my read of ERBs Barsoom series I only started last year, so I will most likely read the next four books over these two months starting with The Gods of Mars.

I reread Burroughs last year, and I just read a whole bunch of Brackett in May & June, so maybe it's time to finally crack into Almuric. And/or there's that new collection of Poul Anderson's sword & planet from DMR Books ...

Hello everyone. Good to see quite a few people here. I'm going to try and check in at least once a day so if anyone has a particular question for me, ask away. I've been writing mostly westerns lately so have been reading mostly westerns, but I'm starting tonight on David C. Smith's Tales of Attluma. I've also got Tarzan Conqueror of Mars, an S&P work by Will Murray that I'm looking forward to getting into.

The book that started it for me was Swordsmen in the Sky, an anthology of S&P tales put together by Donald Wollheim, who was influential enough on my early reading to get two characters named after him in an old and (thankfully) lost tale. Woll and Heim were two dwarven characters. Here's what I said about the book here on goodreads: I was about 15 when I read this, the perfect age, I think.

"My favorite fantasy collection of all time. This is the collection that, more than anything, made me want to write Sword & Planet stories. Contains: Swordsman Of Lost Terra by Poul Anderson, People of the Crater by Andre Norton, The Moon That Vanished by Leigh Brackett, A Vision of Venus by Otis Adelbert Kline, and Kaldar, World of Antares, by Edmond Hamilton."

For me it was a copy of A Princess of Mars with the D'Achille cover art that Dad picked up at the bookstore and gave to me. (I don't think he'd ever read Burroughs, but his Heinlein paperbacks were a staple of my childhood; and I'd already been reading such Tarzan paperbacks as I could get at the library.)



It's just as well that they hadn't transitioned to the Whelan covers -- I have serious doubts as to whether he would've bought it for me if the cover looked like this:



(Which isn't to say I don't love that art; and now I have full sets of both D'Achille and Whelan editions.)

Joseph wrote: "For me it was a copy of A Princess of Mars with the D'Achille cover art that Dad picked up at the bookstore and gave to me. (I don't think he'd ever read Burroughs, but his Heinlein ..."

A Princess of Mars was the second S & P work I read. My mom was a cover watcher too and scantily clad women were a no no.

My introduction to Sword & Planet was through a homage:


Excalibur (1988-1998) #16

I read this as a kid and I didn't realize that this was a homage until I was an adult. Alan Davis has done some fine work as a writer and artist.

Then they did this:


Excalibur (1988-1998) #60

This was a homage to Tarzan of course.

Richard wrote: "My introduction to Sword & Planet was through a homage:

I didn't even know these existed. Going to order them

Joseph wrote: "I think Enchantress is plenty swordy."

I'm into it now, and I think I see what you mean. Stark, as presented so far (and this being the first I've read of him), has both the muscle and the grim resolve of a S&S protagonist.

I appreciate the lyrical, illustrative writing. This is only my second experience with Brackett, but I'm enjoying it much more than my first.

Richard wrote: "My introduction to Sword & Planet was through a homage:
"

Looks like a fun homage. I recognise the originals of those covers. The first is this Barsoom art (though I don't know from which book, or if it's standalone). https://not.pulpcovers.com/image/5445...

(Nope, that couldn't be the original, with a date of 2010. Must be something else, or the newer art was copying these Excalibur covers.)

The second one looks like this Conan art (but mirrored): https://not.pulpcovers.com/post/16955...

After careful consideration, I started Robert E. Howard's Adventures in Science Fantasy since it contains Almuric, his take on a Barsoom-like that I've never read before.

Joseph wrote: "After careful consideration, I started Robert E. Howard's Adventures in Science Fantasy since it contains Almuric, his take on a Barsoom-like that I've ..."

Yes, he couldn't help but bring his barbarian sensibilities to bear. Good stuff

And finished Almuric (although I still have another 100 pages or so in the collection -- Almuric proper is either a longish novella or a very short novel) and I enjoyed it, but (and this isn't an original observation) it almost reads like a parody at times -- like Howard was taking the piss both out of Burroughs-style planetary romance and his own Conan stories. Esau Cairn is so ridiculously muscle-bound, and comments on it so frequently, that it occasionally verges on being silly. Still, I'm glad I finally read it.

(Also, I know there's some question about who actually wrote the end of the story, and where Howard's writing ended, but that wasn't addressed anywhere in the book.)

Joseph wrote: "And finished Almuric (although I still have another 100 pages or so in the collection -- Almuric proper is either a longish novella or a very short novel) and I enjoyed it, but (and this isn't an o..."

If you know Morgan Holmes, a REHupan who is on facebook, he's done quite a bit of work on parsing out who wrote that last section. I originally thought it was probably Otis Adelebert Kline but Morgan argues that it wasn't. That's probably where to go for some thoughts on the matter.

I didn't think of Almuric as a parody as much as it was Howard being unable to 'not' put himself into a story. The Barbarism aspects of the tale really came throuigh.

Charles wrote: "JIf you know Morgan Holmes, a REHupan who is on facebook, he's done quite a bit of work on parsing out who wrote that last section. I originally thought it was probably Otis Adelebert Kline but Morgan argues that it wasn't. That's probably where to go for some thoughts on the matter..."

Yeah, I'm familiar with Morgan but hadn't remembered he'd done work on Almuric (although there's an excellent chance that his was the essay that I'd read and then forgotten the source of). Thanks!

Well, I finished Planet Stories v04n04 - Enchantress of Venus (I'm going ahead and reading the rest of the stories in that issue of Planet Stories as well), and though I did have some nitpicks about the writing and the way it was advertised, it was a fine story with a great sense of wonder, lovely description of a fantastical location, discovery of an ancient past, some likable characters, and some strong emotional moments. I'll definitely be reading some more from her.

Finished The Gods of Mars yesterday and absolutely loved it, it was a blast to read. I liked it better than A Princess of Mars. Man, ERB is quickly climbing the ladder of favourite authors for me, even after all these years he is still so damn readable and vital to the whole heroic adventure fiction he pioneered. And that cliffhanger ending!!

Christian wrote: "Finished The Gods of Mars yesterday and absolutely loved it, it was a blast to read. I liked it better than A Princess of Mars. Man, ERB is quickly climbing the ladder of favourite ..."

Gods of Mars might be my favorite thing he ever wrote.

Okay, okay, I've requested The Gods of Mars from the library. 📖 It should be available in time.

... is this the point when I should mention that Gods of Mars ends on a major cliffhanger which is resolved in Warlord of Mars? (And Princess/Gods/Warlord is essentially John Carter's great tale, even though he does features in the subsequent books to one degree or another, including at least one from his POV.)

That's fine. I'm down for two books, though probably not both this month.

The library was speedy, and The Gods of Mars is ready and waiting for me! I just need to finish something I started in the meantime.

Jack wrote: "If you have a spare $200, you can purchase a really nice deluxe manuscript edition of A Princess of Mars:

https://www.erbbooks.com/store/p84/st..."

That actually tempts me more than I care to admit ...

I already preordered the second set of Tarzan hardcovers (gotta lock in that 4-for-the-price-of-3 deal).

I keep wanting official ERB-sanctioned eBook editions -- pretty much everything is already available for Kindle, but it's all based on Gutenberg scans &c., so the quality is ... sketchy. I'd be happy to pay for them!

Well, I'm a quarter of the way through The Gods of Mars now, and it's fast-paced and exciting so far, and definitely a contrast to the brooding and mysterious Enchantress of Venus. I knew one of the later books focuses on Thuvia, but I didn't know she was introduced so early!

The Joy of Erudition wrote: "Well, I'm a quarter of the way through The Gods of Mars now, and it's fast-paced and exciting so far, and definitely a contrast to the brooding and mysterious Enchantress of Venus. I knew one of th..."

After reading Gods of Mars I had to jump straight to Warlord, since it resolves the cliffhanger. These two books are really one. Perhaps the best in the Mars series, though I loved all of 'em

All of Burroughs' series had this problem where they'd eventually start to sag, but I think the Mars books maintained the highest level of quality up through the end. The only real stinker is the first part of John Carter of Mars, and I believe that was actually ghost-written by his son. A few of the other tail-end books (Synthetic Men of Mars and Llana of Gathol) aren't great, but they're at least readable.

Joseph wrote: "All of Burroughs' series had this problem where they'd eventually start to sag, but I think the Mars books maintained the highest level of quality up through the end. The only real stinker is the f..."

I agree. John Carter of Mars was pretty bad. I'd heard it was completed from an outline after his death but I don't know the details. It reads like something that wasn't fleshed out. The rest of the books are fun. I very fondly remember The Chessmen of Mars as one of the later ones I liked. I even made a Jetan set at home.

IIRC, John Carter and the Giant of Mars (the first half of the JCoM book) was written by one of his sons and originally published as an illustrated Little Big book or something like that? And it breaks canon in almost every paragraph -- aeroplanes, ray guns, telescreens ...

The second half of the JCoM book (Skeleton-Men of Jupiter) is at least passable, but it's incomplete -- it looks like it was intended as the first of another series of linked novellas a la Llana of Gathol and, I think, at least one of the later Tarzan and one of later Pellucidar books.

My personal favorites after the core 3 are The Chessmen of Mars and A Fighting Man of Mars.

Joseph wrote: "Christian wrote: "Finished The Gods of Mars yesterday and absolutely loved it, it was a blast to read. I liked it better than A Princess of Mars. Man, ERB is quickly climbing the la..."

I can see why.

Currently halfway through Warlord of Mars and the relentless pace carries on. I also like how it didn't start on present day Earth, just BOOM, John Carter on the hunt.

Christian wrote: "I can see why.

Currently halfway through Warlord of Mars and the relentless pace carries on. I also like how it didn't start on present day Earth, just BOOM, John Carter on the hunt. ..."

The sheer level of invention in those 100+ year old books is astonishing.

When reading about Sword & Planet I see so many authors listed from Burroughs to Brackett to Kline. But the one series seldom mention is Mike Resnick's Pursuit Of Ganymede and Goddess of Ganymede. In my opinion written with love for the founding fathers of the genre. I would recommend them for a fun weekend of reading.

I ended up finishing Thuvia, Maid of Mars which I thoroughly enjoyed. I didn't mind the shift to Cathoris as the main protag, and got to know Thuvia more. I also liked how Burroughs continues to flesh out the world building and history of Mars. Always something new around the corner.

But I didn't finish The Chessmen of Mars and only barely started it as I got sidetracked playing video games, mainly getting stuck into and beating Paper Mario The Origami King. Hopefully I can polish it off this month in between my other reads.

I liked Thuvia well enough but didn't think it soared to the heights of its predecessors. (It's also the only Barsoom book, at least until maybe Llana of Gathol, not to have a framing story.) Chessmen is one of my two favorites after the initial trilogy (the other being A Fighting Man of Mars).

Yeah, I have to agree with Thuvia not being as good as the preceding trilogy.

I also recently found out it was ERB's birthday a few days ago.