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Evelina - Week 5
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I enjoy Mrs. Selwyn! Burney's description of her, though, as having a "masculine" mind is revealing. She was always attracted to the bluestockings and clever females in general (and after the publication of this book became a prominent part of their circles) but always worried that their intellectual attainments constituted an inappropriate invasion of the male sphere and a corresponding loss of femininity. This from a young woman who had to conceal from her father the fact that a friend had taught her some Latin, if memory serves.For me, though, Mrs. Selwyn's clever conversation is a welcome break from the inanities of the society men (and the bumptiousness of the Branghtons and Madame Duval). Evelina certainly makes a cottage industry of thinking herself superior to her company! I get that it's necessary for her to be superior in order to deserve Lord Orville, but in this section it borders on distasteful. At least Lord Orville critiques himself for feeling superior!
I won't comment on Lord Orville's letter because I know the answer to that question.
As for Mr. Villars's letter, it would certainly have been more effective if he had given his reasons instead of just exhorting. I feel he's right to warn Evelina against too strong an attachment to Lord Orville--while Orville is clearly attracted to her and is coming to esteem her, in their culture he would have to think long and hard about proposing to a woman whose family is a complete mystery to him, which would cost him his place in society and probably the notice of his own family. I expect Mr. Villars is thinking that there can't be a happy ending unless her father decides to recognize her.
Interesting that Mr. Macartney and Mr. Villars have now met. I wonder what they talked about?
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Evelina is still such a follower-without much thinking apparently. Her reaction to Mr. Villar's letter was so extreme that she drew more attention to herself from Lord Orville.
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Thank you, Lori, for allowing me the space to indulge my current obsession! All my friends just glaze over now when they hear the words "Fanny Burney."
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This is beyond icky, as I gathered he was her grandmother's age (and assumed he was a lover or at least an admirer or Mme Duval). However as a way to get Evelina away from Mme Duvall, it is a brilliant plot device.
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Yes, this appears to be possibly a forgery, as not only does Lord Orville not mention it, but he doesn't even mention her London family which suggests he is unaware of a large part of the adventure with the carriage.
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Evelina does seem rather inept in dealing with Lord Orville still, particularly around the Mr MacArtney episode, when she must realize the appearance she gives is of having arranged a meeting with a young man and of having a correspondence with him. More misunderstandings to come to keep the plot rolling, I assume!
I agree with Abigail about the refreshing air Mrs Selwyn brings to conversation and I also took note of her satire being described as masculine. If Frances is correct that there seem to be parallels between Mr Villars and Dr Burney, it is interesting that Mr Villars’ opinion of Mrs Selwyn is described as being “disgusted at her unmerciful propensity to satire” (letter 61). Clearly Fanny Burney herself shares this propensity and it must have been difficult for her to get over the censure she must have received from her father for her intellectual attainments.
Evelina is a direct contrast to this with her absolute innocence and ignorance of the world. Mr Villars cherishes these attributes which he has reinforced in her:
Letter 60
“Your indignation,” said he, “is the result of virtue; ... guileless yourself, how could you prepare against the duplicity of another? Your disappointment has but been proportioned to your expectations, and you have chiefly owed its severity to the innocence which hid its approach.”
Letter 67 ( final in this weeks reading)
“Alas, my child!-that innocence, the first, best gift of Heaven, should, of all others, be the blindest to its own danger,-the most exposed to treachery,-and the least able to defend itself, in a world where it is little known, less valued, and perpetually deceived!”
It seems if we are pointing out people who don’t learn from past mistakes, Mr Villars would have to be a prime candidate himself. He raised Evelina’s mother to be sheltered and ignorant so that when she entered the world she was an easy target for the degradation which she received and he has ensured that Evelina also requires constant protection of and from her own “virtue.” She is absolutely unable to decide anything herself and relies on Mr Villars opinion in all things and when he is unavailable seems to have transferred her complete dependence to Lord Orville.
Evelina then is the “perfect woman” and it is this cultural concept of femininity which I would argue is the target of Burney’s satire. Trevor mentions the novel “Amelia” by Fielding where the title character outwits her male pursuers. I haven’t read that novel but I’d argue that Evelina is unable to use her intelligence in this manner, perhaps from disposition, but more likely from education.
I feel a real lack in this work when it comes to Miss Mirvan. She is brought out in London at the same time as Evelina and apparently never falls prey to the incredible mistakes which befall her friend. Miss Mirvan’s father is often absent and when he is around he is a ruffian. I’d have to assume then that Miss Mirvan has been raised almost exclusively by her mother. That may be the most important difference between the two young ladies. Did Mrs Mirvan drop the ball so badly in protecting Evelina because even she couldn’t begin to imagine the extent of Evelina’s ignorance? Is Fanny Burney perhaps intimating that men are not very good at educating young women for entering the real world? Maybe these questions could have been answered if we could have seen a view of Miss Mirvan’s comparative innocence.
Why was the perfect woman one who is “the most exposed to treachery” and “the least able to defend itself?” If this is the real subject of Burney’s satire, it is an incredibly good question.
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Jenny, that’s fascinating. Thank you for the whole line of questions . . . I have wondered about the absence of Miss Mirvan as a real personality throughout the book, and agree that so much potential goes untapped as Burney chooses not to explore Evelina’s friend more closely. You present such interesting ideas about men versus women as single parents of young women in this society . . . Really, really interesting. I do not think Lord Orville wrote the letter. I wonder how significantly thinking he did impacted Mr. Villars, as he drafted his own letter.
The change of setting to Bristol Hotwells is brilliant. A spa gives the author the opportunity for the characters to encounter people they would never see, or see again, at home. It also allows strangers to meet as comparative equals, and of course spas are also haunts for fortune hunters, opportunists and confidence tricksters to ply their trade. Jane Austen uses Bath similarly in Persuasion, so Anne and Captain Wentworth can meet again. Hotwells is still there, though swallowed up by the city of Bristol. It rivalled Bath as an upper class resort in the late 18th century, but early in the 19th century the wells became polluted, and that was the end of its fashionableness.
'"My Lord Orville!" cried the witty Mr. Coverley, "why my Lord Orville is as careful,—egad, as careful as an old woman! Why, I'd drive a one-horse cart against my Lord's phaeton for a hundred guineas!"'When I was teaching Evelina in a literature course, we had a class discussion about which contemporary motor care Lord Orville would prefer. A series 7 BMW was our top choice for quality, understated luxury and safety.
I didn't see the letter allegedly from Lord Orville as being that bad. I do agree, though, that it was more forward than expected from the normally restrained and proper Lord Orville and more typical of someone else. Mr. Villars and Evelina describe each other in such an overly syrupy and sugary manner I gain weight just reading the words. It rivals John talking about his Lorna Doone in our last book. Am I missing intended satire in it?
No, I don't think you are overlooking satire there. Letter writing was much more flowery in those days, and Burney herself wrote in a not dissimilar style to her father. Warning to the unwary: her writing gets more and more flowery in her subsequent books, till the last novel is a monster doorstopper of turgidity! This one is by far the easiest to read.
Abigail wrote: "No, I don't think you are overlooking satire there. Letter writing was much more flowery in those days, and Burney herself wrote in a not dissimilar style to her father. Warning to the unwary: her ..."Thanks for the warning, Abigail! I have noticed the extreme length of The Wanderer, and it sounds like other top-rated tomes would be a better use of reading time. The flowery writing is plenty enough here. Still, it has been an enjoyable read so far.
The letter Evelina received signed 'Orville' wasn't improper simply for its flowery style. It was morally and socially questionable for a young unmarried woman to maintain a private correspondence with a young man unlesss they were actually engaged. In Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility Elinor suspects Marianne is writing to Willoughby and assumes an engagement and in Emma we discover that Jane Fairfax is going early to the post office to receive personal letters, and later find she was indeed secretly engaged. The letter-writer's suggestion that Evelina 'continue the correspondence' she 'commenced' was the virual equivalent to suggesting an affair. No wonder Evelina thought she'd erred by writing the letter of apology to Lord Orville at all.
I think we may be talking of different letters here—I thought the flowery comment was about the interactions between Evelina and Mr. Villars.
Yes, you and Bill are talking about different letters. In my initial post, I did refer to both letters. It was the Evelina and Mr. Villars letters (and relationship) that I thought were over flowery (or over sugary or over-syrupy). You provided a helpful response to my concerns and increased my knowledge of Burney and the times and I thank you.
However, while not referring to it as over-flowery, I also stated that the Orville to Evelina letter wasn't so bad. I presumed that Bill was responding to that part of my post and explaining another aspect of why that letter would have been improper in that society. I understand the situation better so it was another helpful response that has increased my knowledge.
I thank both Bill and Abigail for increasing my knowledge and my ability to appreciate the book. It's why I like reading with this group.
We're all learning a lot from this discussion!
So often novelists in the old days relied on small points of etiquette to convey important information subtly that modern readers miss. In Henry James’s Portrait of a Lady Isabella discovers Osmond and Mme Merle had been lovers when she enters a room and finds Mme Merle standing and Osmond seated.
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I was surprised that Orville was so affected by Evelina’s meeting with McCartney. He even seemed to spy on her the 2nd morning. I suppose this is a sign of love?
Robin wrote: "I was surprised that Orville was so affected by Evelina’s meeting with McCartney. He even seemed to spy on her the 2nd morning. I suppose this is a sign of love?..."If a written correspondence signifies intimacy amounting to an engagement, meeting a man privately must signify a sexual triste! Orville has basically become the keeper of Evelina’s virtue at this point, IMO, so I wasn’t as surprised that he made it plain he was observing and “chaperoning” her activities. But I’m wondering what Orville would have said/done if McCartney had arrived before Evelina did!
Bill wrote: "So often novelists in the old days relied on small points of etiquette to convey important information subtly that modern readers miss. In Henry James’s Portrait of a Lady Isabella discovers Osmond..."It always amazes me how little is said aloud in novels by James and Wharton, even between married couples. It’s almost as if they just sit silently in a room together, thinking, for long enough that the other person figures it out on their own.
I don't believe Lord Orville wrote the letter, but I cannot imagine who could have, or why.I don't like the Branghtons, for their conduct about Lord Orville's carriage and also for their unkindness towards the suicidal Mr. Macartney. I am sorry for Mr Macartney and the scene in the garden, Evelina gets easily confused and has a lot to learn about managing social issues. I hope we will see her learning something more about this before the end (in particular had she to become engaged or married to Lord Orville).
There is no doubt that Lord Orville has been besotted with Evelina from the moment he saw her. The fact that he is ‘at her side’ almost every moment of the day once she is residing at Mrs Beaumont’s and even resorts to spying on her over Mr Macartney shows how much he has lost his head over her. It is likely he didn’t write the letter but it is almost as bad that he is showing her so much attention whilst in Bristol. Naive Evelina thinks all this attention is because he feels sorry for her or that’s what she’s telling Mr. Villars. Surely after all the attentions of various other men, I can’t believe that she can’t perceive that Lord Orville is paying his attentions to her for reasons other than sympathy. Whether he wrote the letter or not, the way Evelina dismisses the misdemeanour so quickly after a few smiles and pleasantries shows how gullible she is. Does she really see him ‘like a sister?’ I think Mr. Villar’s warning letter has come too late after almost a week with Lord Orville constantly in her company.Evelina’s obsession with Lord Orville has resulted in her betraying a promise to Mr. Macartney, a man who is probably more deserving of her attentions. Indeed the way she treats people she believes are of a lower status than her is disgraceful. She is a snob, and whilst she may be excused because of her youthfulness there is no excuse, for example, when in Letter LIV she states:-
‘While we were strolling round the garden, I perceived, walking with a party of ladies at some distance, Lord Orville! I instantly retreated behind Miss Branghton, and kept out of sight till we had passed him; for dreaded being seen by him in a public walk with a party of which I was ashamed.’
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She is of course a snob by today's standards, because issues of class were strongly ingrained in her society, and in fact concern her deeply due to her own precarious position. Her dislike of the Branghtons and Mr Smith could be secondary to their general unpleasantness and vulgar behaviour-she responds very differently to Mr MacArtney who behaves in a more polite manner, despite his equally lowly position.
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When she is in their presence, they constantly taunt and insult her. They make fun of everything she says and does. I actually suspect the Branghton sisters of writing the letter in order to get a response from Evelina into their hands—which they can then either use as fuel for more teasing, or in even worse ways. I don’t think they would use her response as compromising material with which to exert control over her actions, but they could. More likely they just want to make her look and feel like a fool.
Despite the Branghtons and friends being annoying to Evelina she is still guilty of double standards. This is illustrated by her first meeting in Bristol with Lord Merton and Jack Coverley. They were both far more forward with her than young Branghton and Mr. Smith ever were and yet she doesn’t show the same contempt or disgust at the way they behave. Merton and Coverley should be equally as annoying as the Branghtons but because they are a higher class Evelina puts up with and, to a certain extent, condones their behaviour.An earlier letter (XLV) reveals her attitude to Mr Macartney. She says,
How much does my disgust for these people (the Branghtons) increase my pity for poor Mr. Macartney!..........I am determined to take every opportunity to show civility to this unhappy man...... This is a rather condescending tone when in fact he is at least her equal in terms of birth If not prosperity.
The young Branghton’s offer of marriage may not be to Evelina’s liking but it is a reasonable expectation considering her present state of affairs. Would she treat an offer of marriage from Lord Orville or even Sir Willoughby with the same contempt or disgust.? Or might she even marry Mr Macartney out of pity?
Why is no one in the Beaumont household telling Lord Orville to back off? Mr Villars can see what’s going on and he is many miles away. It seems odd that Lord O is so different from his sister and this yet again arouses my suspicions about him. Once again Evelina is having to fend for herself and the fact that the gracious Lord is always with her seems entirely unrealistic.
I don't think it's particularly unrealistic that Lord Orville is paying so much attention to Evelina. They are part of a house party with limited social options; everyone else is ignoring Evelina, and he would have a social obligation as the male relative of the hostess to remedy that deficit, even if he weren't attracted to her.Nor do I see why Evelina should treat young Mr. Branghton's proposal with anything other than disgust. He has done nothing to woo her, and when approached on the subject by her grandmother, Evelina made it clear she was not interested. It is disrespectful to keep pushing her on the subject. And her grandmother has made it clear that she and the Branghtons regard it as a financial transaction--Mme. Duval will leave all her money to the couple if they comply. Why wouldn't she be disgusted at attempts to sell her to someone whose company she dislikes?
Pity for Mr. Macartney would indeed be seen as condescending today, but "condescension" didn't have the same meaning in the eighteenth century. It was perceived as a form of courtesy that recognized the humanity of a person despite their lower social status. By virtue of his acknowledged illegitimacy, he is indeed her social inferior, and she did her awkward best to help him without directly embarrassing him. Within the context of her era's social structure, she is displaying Christian values.
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“Disgust” has undergone a change in intensity since Burney’s day. Then the word simply signified “distasteful”. Dr Johnson wrote of Milton’s Lycidas, “It is a pastoral, and hence easy, vulgar and disgusting “. Now “disgusting” means something more like “nauseous” (which many people today confuse with “nauseating”), literally makes one want to vomit. When Evelina finds the Branghtons’ behaviour “disgusting” it simply means “such a a person of taste would avoid” (Latin dis=not+bustard=to taste).
I didn't know that about the word disgust, Bill! Thanks for that! I guess in a time when far more people knew Latin, their awareness of the root colored their understanding of the English word. (BTW, you were betrayed by AutoCorrect, may its creator suffer the seven plagues! It changed gustare to "bustard" on you--those pesky Southern Hemisphere birds sticking their beaks in everywhere!)
I’m enjoying catching up on everyone’s discussion. I have finished the book so I won’t include any spoilers, but I feel that the audience is meant to have that dramatic irony and infer Orville’s love. The suspense is really if Evelina will stay on the path of purity to earn his hand. It’s suspenseful when her relations embarrass her or misuse her station for this reason. Overall I trust Evelina to be a good judge of character and to act with propriety, she is not afraid to stand up for herself. Her flaw comes from her naive expectations of wholesome action from all around her.
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"De gustibus non disputandum" (I think) is the saying "There's not accounting for taste"
Why isn’t Evelina ‘disgusted’ by Sir Willoughby, Lord Merton and Jack Coverley? They are far more dangerous to her than the Branghtons ever would be yet she goes back deferentially to that type time and time again. Lord Merton’s attempt to pounce when he found her alone is just another example of the ‘disgusting’ behaviour of the aristocrats, something that Evelina seems almost incapable of realising. I am not convinced that Lord Orville should be paying so much attention to her ... and neither is Mr. Villars or he wouldn’t have sent her such a strongly worded letter of warning. He had no excuse for spying on her planned meeting with Mr. Macartney the result of which led to Evelina becoming very upset and confused. It may also have led to a disturbed man like Mr. Macartney to think again about who his friends were and whether his life was worth living.
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‘“As I doubt not that you are both excellent classics ... the thousand pounds should fall to the share of him who can repeat by heart the longest ode of Horace?” ...“But to be sure, Sir, you have read the classics. Which of the odes do you recommend to these gentlemen to begin with?”
“Which of the odes! - ReallyMa’am, as to that,I have no very particular choice, for to own the truth, that Horace was never a great favourite with me.”
“In truth I believe you,” said Mrs Selwyn, very drily.’
If you were with us on the Trollope project reading The Way We Live Now, you’ll recall the role Horace played in English boys’ education. Mrs Selwyn is a splendid satiric character because she can make observations that Evelina couldn’t. A hilarious scene.
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I love Mrs Selwyn. I like to imagine her as a butch lesbian, although I doubt that's what Ms Burney had in mind.Robin, I agree this could easily be adapted to a teen movie like "Clueless". Certainly a lot of the characters are not acting like adults!
And I agree with everyone here who says that Evelina is a snob; although, as some have said, it could be at least partially in self-defense for her own standing.
I was the one who didnt have a huge problem with the Branghtons. I still don't, particularly. It's rude of Young Branghton to keep pressing his suit; but he is obviously being encouraged by his elders, and he isn't being any ruder on that front than any of the numerous aristocrats that continually harass Evelina.
The family did embarrass Evelina about Lord Orville's carriage, but from their perspective it doesn't make much sense for some rich dude's carriage to sit unused for two hours while they have to endure the rain. To be overly concerned about deferring to the whims of the recipient of inherited wealth while am entire family is getting wet in the streets of London is just more snobbery upholding the class structure.
I agree that Mr Villars has done rather a poor job preparing Evelina for the world by keeping her so ignorant, when the same mistake so terribly hurt his previous charge. It seems no one is giving her the tools she needs to make it in the world, but will be willing to blame her if anything goes wrong.
The group seems to have concluded that Lord Orville didn't write the insulting letter. I'm willing to entertain this idea, but I'm not ruling him out, either. I think he's been given far too much benefit of the doubt.
Elizabeth wrote: "The family did embarrass Evelina about Lord Orville's carriage, but from their perspective it doesn't make much sense for some rich dude's carriage to sit unused for two hours while they have to endure the rain. To be overly concerned about deferring to the whims of the recipient of inherited wealth while am entire family is getting wet in the streets of London is just more snobbery upholding the class structure. ..."
I hadn’t read the scene at the time in this way, generally agreeing that the Branghtons were being insufferably pushy. But I enjoy the way you phrase your dissent and it does give justice to a more liberal approach to their behavior!
Thanks, Jenny. :) I think your reading of the scene was probably the one intended by the author: and certainly I got that reading, too. But lately I've been questioning my reactions and upon what assumptions and enculturation they may lie. It seems like a lot of entertainment subtly enforces the status quo, and I've been consciously trying to see other perspectives.
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This may be one thing that makes Austen a much greater writer than Burney within the same tradition--Austen (within the limits of her perspective, of course) subverts and questions the status quo, requiring readers to find merit in someone's actions and abilities more than their position. Especially visible in Persuasion.But in future books Burney became more of a questioner of norms, especially the rules women were supposed to live by.
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Lord Orville visits Evelina, and Madame Duval proposes a match between her and Tom Branghton. We learn that Evelina has yet another admirer in Monsieur Du Bois. The Branghtons impose themselves upon Lord Orville and his chariot, and Evelina writes to him to apologize. After Madame Duval catches M. Du Bois making overtures to Evelina, Evelina is finally allowed to return home. She receives a letter believed to be from Lord Orville but uncharacteristic of him. Evelina goes to Bristol with Mrs. Selwyn, where she meets Lord Merton, Lady Louisa Larpent, and Lord Orville.
What could explain Lord Orville’s letter?
What is your opinion of Mrs. Selwyn?
What do you think of Mr. Villars’s last letter to Evelina? Do you agree with him?