You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

One of the group reads for July is The Beekeeper's Apprentice by Laurie R. King. Please discuss the book in this thread.

Kristie will be leading the discussion.

In order to receive a badge you must:
1. have read the book before or during July 2020.
2. discussed it in this thread. Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favourite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc. You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread. Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.
3. Report that you have read AND discussed the book in the reporting thread (include a brief summary of what you thought of the book).

A note on discussion: Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favourite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc.

In addition to this, the group reads are meant to be a "read along" so it is preferable that you discuss the book as you read rather than wait until you've finished the book.

And finally, discussion is not about just listing your thoughts. Please interact with the other group members, comment on their thoughts, and if they comment on yours, respond to them. This is what makes a good book discussion!

You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread.

Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.

General Rules:
1. Please mark your spoilers with the spoiler tags along with mentioning what stage of the book you are at so other's don't get a nasty shock. Chapter numbers/titles are generally best as they are the same across all formats and editions. See our spoiler policy
2. The book may be combined with the Year Long Challenge, Topplers, and Monthly Challenges.

Happy reading!

I've already started this one and I'm enjoying it. It was interesting to see how Mary Russell met Sherlock Holmes in the beginning. I'll get more into details once I figure out exactly where I am in the book so I can mark my spoilers. I'm about 1/3 in I think. Who else is planning to read this one?

This is one of those books my dad INSIST I read. I'm glad I did I really enjoyed it.

I've read some of the follow-ups too. My mom really likes the series too and has re-read many of the books.

The author does an excellent job of creating a wonderful strong female character. And I loved her Sherlock Holmes.

Kirsten wrote: "The author does an excellent job of creating a wonderful strong female character. And I loved her Sherlock Holmes."

I agree with this. I like that she was able to use the time period as well to show what a strong and smart female character she was. Also, the contrast with her aunt's expectations of her help to show how "modern" she was.

I love that Sherlock Holmes still feels like Sherlock Holmes, but seen from a different perspective. I like that the author added in a little explanation at the beginning stating that this Holmes may seem different because basically the main character is more intelligent than Dr. Watson and therefor sees Holmes differently. I'm not sure it was necessary, but the explanation fits the story. Her relationship with Holmes and her perspective from being a woman and highly intelligent is different from Watson.

I'll be reading this book, but have a buddy read starting on Saturday. Once I'm finished that book, I can start pm this one.

Janice wrote: "I'll be reading this book, but have a buddy read starting on Saturday. Once I'm finished that book, I can start pm this one."

Glad you'll be joining us, Janice!

I will be starting this book today. Looking forward to it. I am having a hard time figuring out the goodreads functions, but I am going to research how to post spoilers. In case I have something to say that requires it.

I'll be reading this book, but won't get to it until mid-July. I need to read my library books that have holds on them first. :)

Christina wrote: "I will be starting this book today. Looking forward to it. I am having a hard time figuring out the goodreads functions, but I am going to research how to post spoilers. In case I have something to..."

Christina, spoiler tags look like this:

<.spoiler.>The text you want to hide goes here.<./.spoiler.>

Just remove the 5 periods and don't leave any extra spaces I added those in so you could see it.

I just finished book 2 and I'm really enjoying the story. I like the relationship between Mary & Sherlock and I'm enjoying Mary's perspective. (view spoiler)[I was happy with the way the story turned out and thought little girl Jessica so smart and brave to leave clues. She's a little Mary in the making! (hide spoiler)]

I have read and re-read (listened when I could) since I discovered the series this year. I just finished the last published book in the series less than two weeks ago. I am going to read the other group read book as soon as my library serves it up to me, but I will hang out here for the comments and spoilers. :o)

Kristie wrote: "I just finished book 2 and I'm really enjoying the story. I like the relationship between Mary & Sherlock and I'm enjoying Mary's perspective. [spoilers removed]"

After you are done with The Beekeeper's Apprentice, there is a short story told from Holmes' POV that is very good too. Beekeeping for Beginners It will not give anything away, and enhances their first meeting and Mary's background with her Aunt.

Thanks, Cherie. I would've waited to read that because it is listed as book #10.5. Good to know it doesn't give anything away and can be read sooner.

I've been wanting to read this for a while now. I received a copy of book #14 (view spoiler)[ The Murder of Mary Russell (hide spoiler)] for review when it first came out. I was quite disappointed to find out that it was part of a series and pretty much a dead giveaway as to what happens to Mary Russell in the future after I had started reading it. I decided to start at the beginning anyway because the series sounded interesting.

Kristie wrote: "Christina wrote: "I will be starting this book today. Looking forward to it. I am having a hard time figuring out the goodreads functions, but I am going to research how to post spoilers. In case I..."

Thank you.

I have started the book and only finished chapter 1, but I have fallen in love with Mary Russell. I chuckled more than a couple times and flat out laughed at her reference of Mary Magdalene.

I got my copy today. You guys make it sounds really good. Need some motivation before reading my books for July 💪

I started reading this last night. I was going to read one of the later books for the yearly challenge but may decide to read the series in order instead,seeing as I'll get off to a good start with this one.

The book starts with an editor's preface and I wasn't sure whether to read it, as they sometimes give too much away. In this case, I'm glad I did.
(view spoiler)[
I like the way the author sets herself up as editor to Mary Russell's 'true life' accounts. The technique mirrors Watson's chronicler function quite nicely and gives the author a good excuse to deal with well-known characters in her own way.

It's a good psychological trick too. It stops me from comparing Sherlock with the original too much, I already have a good reason for any differences 'Mary' chooses to highlight. And Laurie R King can mirror the language in the original books, because Mary Russell is a contemporary and would writes in a similar style to Watson.
(hide spoiler)]
Very clever - it gives me complete confidence in Laurie R. King as an author - she must be quite astute to come up with this. And I feel like I am in good hands : )

Ayacchi wrote: "I got my copy today. You guys make it sounds really good. Need some motivation before reading my books for July 💪"

Hi Ayacchi - Nice to 'see' you. I'm looking forward to discussing another book with you
: )

Annerlee wrote: "The book starts with an editor's preface and I wasn't sure whether to read it, as they sometimes give too much away. In this case, I'm glad I did. "

I thought it was clever too. It also sets you up to have a bit of a pre-existing impression of Mary.

Ayacchi wrote: "I got my copy today. You guys make it sounds really good. Need some motivation before reading my books for July 💪"

Let's go, Ayacchi!! :D

Annerlee wrote: "The book starts with an editor's preface and I wasn't sure whether to read it, as they sometimes give too much away. In this case, I'm glad I did."

Thiiis!! I was going to ask as well. (view spoiler)[Is the story was real? With the weird package and the manuscripts? That King isn't the real author of the book? If she isn't, then the whole business is awfully crazy (in a good way). But if it's only a play on words, she surely has a wild imagination! (hide spoiler)]

I also love this series. I like that Holmes is the man i remember from the original stories. I hate when authors give him traits he did not have King is genius.

I liked the way King set up the stories from Mary's POV but keeps the language and feeling to the earlier Doyle cannon for SH too. I was immediately drawn to Mary and the story line. I don't think I even came up for air until almost the end of the book, my first time through. I got to the end and started all over again, to pick up everything I might have missed. I was listening to the audiobook at the time, but my hold on the ebook finally came through to allow me to read the text the second time. I really enjoyed listening to the audiobooks. , Jenny Sterlin narrated all that my library had. The narrator of the short story that I mentioned from SH's POV is done by a gentleman, but I cannot remember his name. He had a very nice voice for Holmes.

Ayacchi wrote: "Annerlee wrote: "The book starts with an editor's preface and I wasn't sure whether to read it, as they sometimes give too much away. In this case, I'm glad I did."

Thiiis!! I was going to ask as well..."

Haha. That's the beauty of it. It sounds so believable!

I've made it through 60% (book 3, chapter 10) - I was happy to see that (view spoiler)[ King included Mycraft, as well as Watson in the story. It is fun to see additional characters. I love the mentions of other people Holmes has interacted with in the past as well, such as Moriarty. I think it makes the story fun. I think she's done such a great job making this story fit in to what we already know. (hide spoiler)]

Kristie wrote: "I've made it through 60% (book 3, chapter 10) - I was happy to see that [spoilers removed]"

I agree, Kristie. King is very inventive in keeping to what we may already know of other characters. (view spoiler)[Over the course of the series books, she has actually influenced me to read other author's books, just to get to know the characters and their stories. I will not mention them here, but I will after the group read is done. (hide spoiler)]

I just finished book 1... 28% done. Well, am I the only one trying really hard to remember that Holmes is old? In my mind I keep picturing the guy from the "Sherlock" TV series with Lucy Lu. Lol. I am probably showing that I have never once read anything about Sherlock Holmes.

I've had to remind myself a couple of times, Christina. Though, he is 54 when he meets Mary Russell, so not that old. lol

Planning on starting this tomorrow or maybe even later tonight :)

Christina wrote: "I just finished book 1... 28% done. Well, am I the only one trying really hard to remember that Holmes is old? In my mind I keep picturing the guy from the "Sherlock" TV series with Lucy Lu. Lol. I..."

I had the same problem, Christina, and I have read a LOT of Sherlock Holmes, as well as watching all of the movie and TV series. The original cannon that Doyle wrote had him in his mid thirties to early forties, most of the time, but the dates of the stories were altered by Watson and he was actually much younger. From His Last Bow (view spoiler)[The last story that Doyle wrote had him passing away on the Sussex Down in his 60s. (hide spoiler)]

Like Kristie wrote, the timeline that King creates has him as 54 when he meets Mary (view spoiler)[and in his early 20s when he meets Mrs. Hudson and Dr. Watson - explained in later series books (hide spoiler)]. I think her time line makes more sense, not only to his character, but also to the dates and the actual time he spent as a working amateur detective in London, before he "retired to keep bees".

For myself, I had to keep reminding myself "how young" Mary is because she acts so much older.

Cherie wrote: "Christina wrote: "I just finished book 1... 28% done. Well, am I the only one trying really hard to remember that Holmes is old? In my mind I keep picturing the guy from the "Sherlock" TV series wi..."

I might be doing a little of that also, but I am only 28% into the book and she is already over 18. Even though she starts the book 15 yo.. We fly through her minor years, which is probably good to keep it on the appropriate side.

Currently at 46%
(view spoiler)[My goodness, even the six year old is brilliant in this book. Although the parents seem like vain deem wits. I really enjoyed the serious talk that Mary had with her at the end of the chapter though. It really pulled at some heart strings. (hide spoiler)]

Kristie wrote: "I just finished book 2 and I'm really enjoying the story. I like the relationship between Mary & Sherlock and I'm enjoying Mary's perspective. [spoilers removed]"
(view spoiler)[ I just made my own comment on that because I hadn't checkout your spoiler on it. I agree brilliant.. I currently have a 6 yo and that part just blew my mind and I had a "Oh come on!," moment, but that all was put to rest when she had her heartfelt talk with Jessica at the end. (hide spoiler)]

Annerlee wrote: "I started reading this last night. I was going to read one of the later books for the yearly challenge but may decide to read the series in order instead,seeing as I'll get off to a good start with..."

I thought it was also clever. I actually read it twice because I first thought "is this real?" lol

Christina wrote: "Kristie wrote: "I just finished book 2 and I'm really enjoying the story. I like the relationship between Mary & Sherlock and I'm enjoying Mary's perspective. [spoilers removed]"
[spoilers removed]"

Yes! I agree. (view spoiler)[ The six year old was much smarter and thoughtful than I would think of any typical 6 year old. I loved the heartfelt talk too. Mary did so well with it. She was right on target as to what the little girl was thinking and needing. (hide spoiler)]

I think this is one of the best treatments of Holmes outside of Conan Doyle's books. Holmes stays true to the man I read about and loved. Their was a time when i read anything that feature Holmes. I was obsessed with him. I even saw that horrible movie Young Sherlock.

I love that we first got to know Mary before she met Sherlock I allowed us to get to know Mary as a char herself. I think this book is amazing

Change of plans. We've delayed our buddy read, so I will start Beekeeper's Apprentice later today.

Excellent, Janice! I'm really enjoying it.

I just finished book 2 and am starting book 3. (view spoiler)[ I was beginning to think that Mary was to good to be true. She can do everything and I was rather over how perfectly brilliant she was. I think her talk to Jessie made Mary appear more human, vulnerable, likable. Though Mary has a tough persona she still has a bit of the little girl lost deep inside her due to the death of her parents. (hide spoiler)]

Jayme wrote: "I just finished book 2 and am starting book 3. [spoilers removed]"

True, Jayme. I think it's a bit a (view spoiler)[ protective outer shell. (hide spoiler)]

I made it up to book 4 today (76%). I'm enjoying this one even more than I expected to. I love King's writing. (view spoiler)[ I like that Holmes missed a couple of things that Russell picked up on. I am glad that he is ready to treat Russell as his equal. That would be very difficult for someone whose identity is tied up in his intelligence and ability to solve mysteries.

I also like that the villain in the story is likely a female and Holmes considers her an intelligent and worthy opponent. He doesn't get hung on expectations based on gender and underestimate her. (hide spoiler)]

I'm really looking forward to seeing where the story takes us. On to book 4!

Still at book 1 (10%), kept distracting myself with other books, lol. I've watched the movies and series, read some of his books, and all of these times, I thought Mrs. Hudson is his landlady.
And I like Mary's character and how observant she is. Maybe that's a basic every detective should have? Wish I had half of their ability to read people, would be fun!

Ayacchi wrote: "Wish I had half of their ability to read people, would be fun!"

Me too!

I got a good start. I'm at the end of Book 1, chapter 3.

(view spoiler)[Mary is quite precocious but with a wry wit. I find it interesting that she addressed her relationship with her aunt the way she did. She says her piece and then dismisses her, name unknown. Like everyone else, I like that King has stayed close to the personality of Holmes. I think Mary is very much like him. (hide spoiler)]

Kristie wrote: " I like that ..."

Re Holmes (view spoiler)[ I like King's treatment of Holmes regarding women too. It makes him a little more human and less of an automaton, that Watson once called him. Maybe it is because he is older too, that he accepts a larger world view. (hide spoiler)]

Janice wrote: "I got a good start. I'm at the end of Book 1, chapter 3.

[spoilers removed]"

I agree with that. I think (view spoiler)[ Mary is a lot like him as far as her personality goes, but she is still more in touch with her feelings and those of others, where Holmes tries to push that aside for the sake of science and investigation. That's not to say he isn't aware, he just tries to control it more than she does, I think. She uses it to her advantage. (hide spoiler)]

Cherie wrote: "Kristie wrote: " [spoilers removed]..."

Re Holmes [spoilers removed]"

True, I also think that (view spoiler)[ he was once bested by a woman and that gave him an appreciation of what women are really capable of. Maybe the fact that Watson is a bit dim times (or at least not nearly as attentive as Holmes) plays into that too. His experiences have taught him that gender roles don't always play out traditionally.

He does use people's preconceived ideas of other people based on gender, race, age, etc to his advantage when designing his costumes too. I love that he puts something hideously ugly like the mole on his face to distract people so that they don't take a closer look at him too. He is very aware of people's tendencies. (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Cherie wrote: "Kristie wrote: "[spoilers removed]

Re Holmes [spoilers removed]"

I like it better this way as well, and I love the scene where (view spoiler)[they walked and interacted with the farmers. They made an odd couple yet still fun to watch.

I had problem with the timing once, it jumped to 3 years later or even years later then go back to the present time. Will be more careful (hide spoiler)]

Cherie - I just noticed that part a spoiler is showing in your previous comment. Could you go back and remove it?

Ayacchi - It is showing in your reply above too. Could you edit that out. Just replace the spoiler part with [spoilers removed].

Ayacchi wrote: "Cherie wrote: "Kristie wrote: "[spoilers removed]."

Re Holmes [spoilers removed]"

I like it better this way as well, and I lo..."

How far along are you?

Kristie wrote: "Cherie - I just noticed that part a spoiler is showing in your previous comment. Could you go back and remove it?

Ayacchi - It is showing in your reply above too. Could you edit that out. Just re..."

Sorry, Kristie. I fixed my post.