Dickensians! discussion

PICTURES FROM ITALY



The Street of the the Tombs, Pompeii - Samuel Palmer - 1850

Pictures from Italy is our group side read for Little Dorrit, which begins whenever you like after the start of Book 2, and continues through until the end of January.

This is a free read: there is no schedule to follow.

Our side read will not usuaIly be by Charles Dickens himself, but is chosen to complement the main read. In this case he wrote one himself which fits the bill perfectly!

In 1844, Charles Dickens took a break from writing novels, and for several months he travelled through France and Italy with his family. They visited the most famous sights: Genoa, Rome, Naples (where Vesuvius was still smouldering), Florence and Venice. Pictures from Italy is a travelogue which he wrote in 1846. He also drew on his memories of this a few years later, when writing the second part of our current group read Little Dorrit, published in 1855.

Charles Dickens commissioned a young artist Samuel Palmer to make 4 fine drawings to illustrate his travelogue. The first post shows a wood engraving which Samuel Palmer made from one of them.

I hope we all enjoy this read, which should complement our group read quite well, and may cast new light on Little Dorrit.

Jean,
Are there just 4 illustrations in the original book? I saw one comment on Amazon that they were missing from one of the kindle versions, but I’m not sure which. Also there is a free audio version from LibriVox.

I assume that the title refers to written descriptions. Fun!

I’m looking forward to reading this book.

Yes, the story is that in March 1846, Charles Dickens approached the young artist Samuel Palmer and asked him to supply vignette illustrations for his forthcoming book Pictures from Italy, and would pay him twenty guineas!

Charles Dickens was very happy with the result. There were four detailed drawings, from which Samuel Palmer made woodblock engravings. They are:

"The Street of the Tombs: Pompeii"and
"The Colosseum of Rome

which are separate from the text, and

"'The Villa d'Este at Tivoli, from the Cypress Avenue" and
"Vineyard Scene" (more often called simply "Vintage" )

which are vignettes, partly enclosing some text on the same page.

It's a travel diary really, with very lively writing as Charles Dickens gives his personal reactions to these places :)

Twelve years later in 1862, Marcus Stone also produced 4 new engravings for Pictures from Italy. Some texts include these, but the originals by Samuel Palmer are more difficult to locate.

Project Gutenberg has a free version of the book with the Marcus Stone engravings.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/650

The Samuel Palmer engraving of Pompeii is lovely, Jean.

Thanks Connie, that will be useful :)

I found the Kindle version of the Penguin Classic edition of this for 99 cents!

That's great Jenny! They are usually good - I just have the Gutenberg free one.

I'm on chapter 4, has anyone else started?

I'm not that far along, but please tell us what you think Jenny! There won't be any spoilers in this, so it is a free read-as-you-like :)

Thanks Jean :) I have found it alternatively humorous and dry, to be completly honest. His description of the "she-goblin" was the funniest part so far. Some of what I find dry is that he seams to think all the buildings are sad looking... It dies pick up a bit where I am though!

I just purchased a copy and awaiting its arrival in the mail. I'll try to join a little later in November, so I'll probably be a little bit behind. This will be a new kind of Dickens book for me.

So far I’ve traveled from London to Avignon with Dickens and am very much enjoying his descriptions. They might be important for those who study 19th century life. The description of the hustle and bustle of the carriage stop for the night at an inn in central France was fun - especially the bill paying at the end.

Kathleen wrote: "The description of the hustle and bustle of the carriage stop for the night at an inn in central France was fun - especially the bill paying at the end ..."

Yes, I agree. In the introduction, Charles Dickens tells us he is going to say what it's really like, which is most entertaining. So often in classic novels or dramatisations, the wealthy arrives at their destination with not a hair out of place. In this first chapter Charles Dickens conveys the interminable clattering and banging of the coach so well! I agree that the end part was very droll ... English people haven't really got the hang of bargaining, so that the specified price is brought down by haggling. And I loved the postilion's boots :D

This is a good side read for Little Dorrit! We've already had postilions described as vagabonds and bandits there; they were evidently part of Victorian life travelling by coach. And I'm glad to know what sort of conditions (in Book 2 of Little Dorrit) (view spoiler)[the Dorrit family would be experiencing sometimes almost daily in their travels through Europe (hide spoiler)]. Books on the Grand Tour do not tell you about the downside dirt and clatter!

I have just arrived at Venice by night with Mr. Dickens. I love his description of it and now want to go there myself even more!

In my reading, Dickens has just left Genoa. It helps to understand that Genoa is built on a steep hillside overlooking the Sea.

Here is a 19th century photo:
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-vie...

I have only been on the highway above the city, looking down into it and the Sea as we drove from Milan to Santa Margherita Ligure, about 22km south. (I was on a bus tour of Italy.) Our view was more like this:

https://www.bosshunting.com.au/travel...

We were on a bridge, but we don't think it was the same one that collapsed a few months later.

Those photos really do help. Isn't it densely populated! Thanks, Kathleen.

I'm just coming into Genoa ... and still recovering from the encounter with the goblin. This certainly isn't like any a travelogue I've ever read! I can see parts of it as the basis for parts of his fiction, though.

Jean I have to wonder if the goblin he encountered was the basis for Mrs General ;)

You've give me my first laugh of the day there Jenny - but surely not!

Glad I could make you laugh Jean! I was thinking specifically of the chapter in which he described Mrs General as a ghoul eating the bones of others travels.

Oh yes :)

Kathleen, what a lovely trip that sounds like!

Sorry, I thought I would get to this one. Hasn't happened yet, but hopefully.

Not to worry Franky! I know you've got your book, and this one will stay as our current side read at least until the end of January :) I'm reading it a bit at a time, myself, and enjoying it. Pictures from Italy doesn't seem to be a book where you can lose the thread - not like a novel.

I'm looking forward to you and others joining in this one :)

I've had the one copy in our 42 library system on hold for a couple of weeks and I'm still waiting for it to arrive!! :D The system is obviously sluggish now, especially from outlying libraries. I wanted the hard copy and I'm fine with waiting a bit as we have plenty of time it seems :)

Great! I look forward to you joining in, Candi. It's a different sort of read from what we expect from Charles Dickens, but there are some parts which couldn't have been written by anyone else!

It will be interesting to read something a bit different from what I'm used to reading from Dickens, Jean!

Dickens makes this trip with his wife and children, so i’m surprised that he makes it sound as if he is traveling alone. So far, I’m in the middle of the Rome chapter and only once does he very briefly refer to another family member.

Also, I find it curious that he returns to London and then quickly starts out again through France to Italy.

Kathleen wrote: "Dickens makes this trip with his wife and children, so i’m surprised that he makes it sound as if he is traveling alone. So far, I’m in the middle of the Rome chapter and only once does he very bri..."

Kathleen, Dickens wrote the Christmas book "The Chimes" while he was in Genoa. He returned to London to do some public readings of his new book (which paid well) during November and December 1844. Then he traveled back to Italy to rejoin his family for Christmas.

Connie wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "Dickens makes this trip with his wife and children, so i’m surprised that he makes it sound as if he is traveling alone. So far, I’m in the middle of the Rome chapter and only once..."

Thanks, Connie, for clearing up my question. I was very confused and even wondered if I was misreading the text.

Kathleen, I had printed up a map of his route on the www.charlesdickenspage.com website to use later. I'm hoping to have time to read it in late December and January.

Here's the link for the map:

https://www.charlesdickenspage.com/ch...

Thank you. I never thought to look for a map.

Yes, thanks Connie - that's a great map! I'm pleased you will be joining in this read, as I know you'd found a copy :)

Both you and Kathleen might both be interested in my review of The Chimes, which gives a little more background of that time in 1844, and the rush back home from Genoa LINK HERE.

I’ve just started. I thought I would do an audio, but I guess Simon Callow has ruined me because only he can be the internal voice of Dickens for me so I got a copy with Kobo+ instead.

It’s very atmospheric, the part about the Inquisition rooms is very frightening, I had chills.

Bionic Jean wrote: "Yes, thanks Connie - that's a great map! I'm pleased you will be joining in this read, as I know you'd found a copy :)

Both you and Kathleen might both be interested in my review of [book:The Chim..."

Great review of "The Chimes," Jean!

Thank you Connie :)

France-Andrée - yes, it is chilling indeed. That is what strikes me most about this journal: the fact that it is so idiosyncratic. It's not at all like a travel guide, as these are Charles Dickens's own impressions and whimsical fantasies. These descriptions must be unique!

I’ve never read a travel guide, but I’ve read some Charles Dickens’ sketches and this is very much in the same vein.

The Sketches by Boz are fascinating and well worth reading as a group some time. Some are commentaries about London, and as you say France-Andrée, quite like this, but others are early comic social satires :)

Just read the part of the marionette theatre and I would love to see the play about Napoléon! Dickens makes it sound so entertaining.

While I'm enjoying the descriptions of the places Dickens is visiting, I'm finding Dickens sidebars and commentary a tad annoying. His wit and humor works better in his fiction novels, in my opinion.

Oh that's a shame Franky. Perhaps it will grow on you :) For me it's Charles Dickens's unique take on things which make it worth the read!

Thank you for the link to the map, Connie :)

Connie wrote: "Kathleen, I had printed up a map of his route on the www.charlesdickenspage.com website to use later. I'm hoping to have time to read it in late December and January.

Here's the link for the map:
..."
Thanks Connie! This is helping me visualize Dickens' journey much better.

I'm glad the map helped. I'm hoping to start the book after Christmas.

I too appreciate the map, Connie. And I too will be reading after Christmas. I will be reading from American Notes and Pictures from Italy which is part of the Oxford Illustrated Dickens series.

Usually I prefer Oxford Classics or Oxford World Classics editions with all the supplementary materials that Oxford makes available in those editions. But there are no illustrations there. So a trade off. With Connie providing a map, I am okay with the edition I found at the library. I can access other information online.

France-Andrée wrote: "I would love to see the play about Napoléon! Dickens makes it sound so entertaining."

Yes, the marionettes were grotesque - so absurd and hilarious that they really enlivened the Genoa section, I thought. I'm coming to the end of that part now.

Cynda - I'm pleased you have that edition, as it has the original 4 illustrations by the famous artist Samuel Palmer. We discuss the original engravings earlier in this thread. I've posted one of the first four, plus Connie has given a link to the second set, by a different artist, Marcus Stone. He's more famous for illustration, rather than Fine Art paintings, but has illustrated other works by Charles Dickens too.

Some of the later editions contain photographic illustrations such as one might find in a travel guide. I bought one of these on kindle, but they are not nearly as good as the images Kathleen linked to earlier.

Thanks for the information, Jean.

I'm glad someone else is starting after Christmas, Cynda.

It's 3 months later, and now I'm at the part about the "Palazzo Peschiere", of which Charles Dickens says:

There is not in Italy, they say (and I believe them), a lovelier residence than the Palazzo Peschiere, or Palace of the Fishponds ... It is more like an enchanted place in an Eastern story than a grave and sober lodging."

Certainly his description makes it sound beautiful :)

Connie - I expect others will starts in the new year, as we don't start our side read until half way through each novel. With regard to our recent group read of Little Dorrit, (view spoiler)[this is certainly providing us with an idea of what the Dorrit family saw on their Grand Tour through Europe! (hide spoiler)]

I hope Milena will join in, as she did a lovely post about the "Palazzo Peschiere" in our "I Saw Dickens!" (museums etc.,) thread, LINK HERE and even took a photo for us :)