Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

Hello! We are planning to Buddy Read the Wars of Light & Shadow series by Janny Wurts.

Whether it's your first time reading the series or re-reading, come join us! The plan is to read one book per month and wrap up with the short stories at the end of the year.

***Please use spoiler tags and hide to key plot points or guesses.

I look forward to reading with ya'll!


WoL&S Reading Schedule

- January 1st: The Curse of the Mistwraith #1
- February 1st: The Ships of Merior #2
- March 1st: Warhost of Vastmark #3
- April 1st: Fugitive Prince #4
- May 1st: Grand Conspiracy #5
- June 1st: Peril's Gate #6
- July 1st: Traitor's Knot #7
- August 1st: Stormed Fortress #8
- September 1st: Initiate's Trial #9
- October 1st: Destiny's Conflict #10


-= Short Stories =- (Recommended Order by Janny Wurts)
November-December

- The Sundering Star (Pre-History)
- The Gallant
- Black Bargain
- The Decoy
- Reins of Destiny
- Child of Prophecy



*** Links to WoL&S Wiki & Detailed Summaries ***
If you have not read the book/story, I do NOT recommend reading any of the links.
(view spoiler)[

Paravia Wiki

Wars of Light & Shadow on Paravia Wiki

- Curse of the Mistwraith Chapter Summaries

(hide spoiler)]

I really wanted to read this series and I am going to try to fit it in my schedule! Thanks for organizing this!

Yay! Join us! It's a great series. I'll be re-reading the first six and dive into the rest of the series. This will be one of my series to catch up to and hug for 2021.

Join us! It’s such a fantastic series!

Found the thread. Thank you for setting it up Soo. :)
And do join us Solseit! It's a fabulous series.

@Soo

According to Janny, since we are reading the short stories at the end

That sequence/with the six existing shorts would be:

Sundering Star (prehistory)
The Gallant
Black Bargain
The Decoy
Reins of Destiny
Child of Prophecy

We should read them in this order.

Thank you, Janny!

Updated 1st post with short story order. =)

If anything new comes up that should be added to our Reading List, let me know and I'll update our main post.

I will finish The Black Hawks - hopefully today - and I will start reading The Curse of the Mistwraith. Do we comment our reading here or should we comment on a different thread?
This choice works so well for me - I added this series as a focus for this year also because I want to read more women in fantasy (as in authors!).

We'll talk about the books here. =)

Fantastic, thank you!

Having read and enjoyed Wurts Empire trilogy. I will give this a try also, already having many of these books.
Have to weave this is as I am also reading the 10 main books from the Malazan this year.

I own the hardbacks for most of the series. I forget which one I'm missing but the prices for a new hardback for it was expensive. Hopefully, a reprint for the hardback will happen.

I have read the first chapter and I enjoyed the whole set up.
Actually, taking a step back, I enjoyed the prologue. It is not an Erikson level prologue (and Frank, I am also doing the Malazan book of the Fallen read but spread on two years) but it was intriguing nonetheless.

As for chapter 1, I enjoyed the presentation of the main characters (better, the characters I think will be the main characters). The feud between the two reigns is fascinating. I am curious what will happen next.

I will probably be reading this book slowly, maybe one chapter a day or so!

I will start tomorrow and also do probably a chapter a day.

I'll be the odd one out and say that I prefer Janny's writing over Erikson. lol

I'll try to start sometime this week. =)

I'm the odd one out also Soo. I prefer Janny's writing over Erikson.
And I'll also start tomorrow and read one chapter a day.

Gonna start here soon too and add my thoughts as well :)

Mind if I repost some thoughts on the first chapter I had the last time I buddy read these?

Going to re-read for the xth time! I’ve lost count. 🤗. Thanks for putting this together and spreading the word on this series!

=)

So... I'm late to the game but I just found out that Janny Wurts is also an artist. That's so cool!

*checking out Janny Wurts' website*

I may order some prints and get the short stories. =D

Soo wrote: "=)

So... I'm late to the game but I just found out that Janny Wurts is also an artist. That's so cool!

*checking out Janny Wurts' website*

I may order some prints and get the short stories. =D"
This is just fabulous!

I just finished chapter 2 and the plot thickens. The characters are still in their infancy in terms of development (other than maybe (view spoiler)[ the king of Amroth who is genuinely hateful and easy to hate upon! (hide spoiler)]

It seems this is a slow burner and I enjoy a slow burner!

I got the short stories and ordered some prints. =D
Very exciting!

Glad you're enjoying the intro. =)

Soo wrote: "=)

So... I'm late to the game but I just found out that Janny Wurts is also an artist. That's so cool!

*checking out Janny Wurts' website*

I may order some prints and get the short stories. =D"

Yes she is. She did all the cover art for her books and has a lot more art on her site. Both her art and that of Don Maitz are fantastic and they also still take commissions I believe.

You can also get prints and awesome bookmarks from her site, as well as the books and all of the short stories.

I love that art!

@Soo - I made detailed chapter summaries for this book during the last BR and they are all in this thread here:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

or
here if that link doesn't work.

Could you please link them in the first comment for people to be able to easily access them if they want to?

Vivian wrote: "Going to re-read for the xth time! I’ve lost count. 🤗. Thanks for putting this together and spreading the word on this series!"

Yeay! Great to have you here. :) This series deserves so much love and I really wish more people knew about it.

Solseit wrote: "I just finished chapter 2 and the plot thickens. The characters are still in their infancy in terms of development (other than maybe [spoilers removed]

It seems this is a slow burner and I enjoy a..."

He is really despicable right!?
But what do you think about the brothers? How do you like them till now?

Laura wrote: "Solseit wrote: "I just finished chapter 2 and the plot thickens. The characters are still in their infancy in terms of development (other than maybe [spoilers removed]

It seems this is a slow burn..."

I am a sucker for books centered on brotherly bond. And I am liking what I am seeing so far. It seems they have good hearts really (although I need to read a lot more about Lysaer to understand what type of person he is).

Solseit wrote: "Laura wrote: "Solseit wrote: "I just finished chapter 2 and the plot thickens. The characters are still in their infancy in terms of development (other than maybe [spoilers removed]

It seems this ..."

Me too. I love this type of books. And this is a slowburn that slowly increases the pace. By then end you'll get a very fast unfolding action.

Laura, I added the link to the 1st post. Though, I don't recommend people reading notes until after the book is read. I'm a big believer that people should go into a story without a ton of preconceptions, form their own thoughts & enjoy the story.

I'm a fan of Janny & Don's art. It was cool to find out last night and I spent a good while looking around the websites. =D

I do believe that is best too Soo. But just in case anyone needs them. Since we have them anyway...

@Soo - Please note that those are not my notes and thoughts. They are just detailed chapter summaries that have also been uploaded on Paravia Wiki by Janny.

Is it a mix of your thoughts & Paravia Wiki or copy of what's on the PW?

I can post a link to Paravia Wiki in the post.

Things I learned:
- The Kindle versions of the series are formatted in European style grammar. I equate single quotation marks as thoughts/etc and it's weird having to think, no this is conversation.
- The hardback I was looking for is Stormed Fortress & I'll have to be okay with just the paperback. lol Apparently, a lot of people have looked for a hardback.
- Just checked Nook sample & it has no quotation marks at all for dialogue... Hopefully, Barnes & Nobles will fix that with an update.

The chapter summaries are made by me to highlight things people may usually miss in a read. They do not contain any personal thoughts.

I made them the way Scott made the chapter summaries for Malazan to help the BR.

After they were done Janny decided to upload them on her site because she deemed them worthy.

Please keep that GR thread link and mention that they are Detailed Chapter Summaries if you don't mind. Just as the thread title specifies.

Not everyone uses Thoughts and notes in that context and people may get confused.

Laura wrote: "The chapter summaries are made by me to highlight things people may usually miss in a read. They do not contain any personal thoughts.

I made them the way Scott made the chapter summaries for Mala..."

Agreed with this, I found that reading the relevant chapter summaries after finishing the corresponding chapter set helped to point out to me things that I might have missed even on a reread - and they really helped me get into the right headspace for reading between the lines more in later novels.

Updated wording in 1st post.

I'm the type to chat during the BR and enjoy the spark of shared ideas/responses. In general, I do not read wiki/detailed summaries until after I finish the book/series.

Like Iain does the legwork & shares what he finds all the time and that's great. So if ya'll find stuff or what to share it, awesome!

The links are posted for those who are interested. I'll probably hold off until the series is finished.

I just completed the third chapter.
I enjoyed (view spoiler)[ the interaction between the brothers and how this develops into something different. It is sad that Lysaer cannot get past his hatred for his half-brother since it is just built by history and it is not based on Arithon and what he does. In fact, Arithon has shown a lot more maturity and humanity than Lysander especially at the beginning of the chapter.
Said so, I think we start seeing how the interaction between brothers starts going sideways. They both now have 500 years of life span and Lysaer keeps seeing the positives of Arithon and the negatives of his upbringing, from not being exposed to a formal education on the use of magic, to the learning and Lysaer’s limited skills. I feel like this is a pivotal moment of the story. (hide spoiler)]

Ok, so I'll be a bit more detailed since I'm the kind of person who likes to do in-depth reads. (I don't really read chapter summaries etc. - but I love discussing everything!)

First general observation: The Prologue says that the Wars of Light and Shadow are fought between Arithon and the Lord of Light. And that the canons say Arithon was a servant of evil.

But then it immediately states: fragments of manuscript survive which expose the entire religion of Light as fraud.

And that immediately leads to me eyeing anyone but Arithon with suspicion.

Chapter One (will hide all thoughts behind spoiler tag, only read if done with the first chapter set)

(view spoiler)[

Lysaer comes across as honourable. He'd never struck a defenceless man before (he hit Arithon). It is evident that he knows his men, and that he takes care of them or at least attempts to do so to the best of his abilities. As a boy in his memory he had to watch his mother be attacked in a violent way, then she left, leaving him behind.
He does realise this isn't his brother's fault. On the other hand, Lysaer is loyal to his father and has been brought up to hate everything associated with Arithon's family / background.

Arithon wants the feud to end and is prepared to sacrifice himself because he knows he's the last s'Falenn and that immediately makes me like him. Arithon is from the very start willing to sacrifice his life for others. While Lysaer is driven by honour and loyalty. Arithon is proud but doesn't appear to have a single bad bone in his body.

I wonder does anyone read this and not immediately consider Arithon a good guy?

Because I definitely never found myself thinking, "I'm rooting for Lysaer."

Arithon curses the healer who tries to help him, and it's a bit horrific. "I curse your hands. May the next wound you treat turn putrid with maggots. Any child you deliver will sicken and die in your arms, and the mother bill bleed beyond remedy. Meddle further with me and I'll show you horrors."

I'd have stopped healing him...

He then tops it by saying, "The eyes of your firstborn son will rot and flies suck at the sockets."

We know he's a sorcerer, and I guess the question here is: is he actually cursing these people or is it just empty talk to scare superstitious enemies and to get them to kill him and end it?

Now, about Lysaer and his family, I have the following question:
"An altercation before Lysaer's birth had killed the realm's first queen and a daughter no one near the king dared to mention. All Lysaer's life the court had lived in dread of his father's rages"

So...is Lysaer's father filled with rage now because his first wife got killed in the feud? (this paragraph isn't trying to tell me that he had an anger problem and killed his first wife and daughter, RIGHT?)

I mean he IS an utter violent awful man just a few pages later in Lysaer's memory.

It's very admirable of Arithon to try and end the feud with his own death in my opinion.
(hide spoiler)]

Solseit wrote: "I just completed the third chapter.
I enjoyed the interaction between the brothers and how this develops into something different. It is sad that Lysaer cannot get past his hatred for his half-br..."

Yes, I agree. (view spoiler)[It's like Arithon has the maturity to look at things from an objective point of view, seeing what's best for the world / family / others ; while Lysaer is just so convinced of his own righteousness that he's blind to his own faults and to the fact that he's driven by ingrained hatred. (hide spoiler)]

Olivia wrote: "Ok, so I'll be a bit more detailed since I'm the kind of person who likes to do in-depth reads. (I don't really read chapter summaries etc. - but I love discussing everything!)

First general obser..."
I agree with you on the preamble. (view spoiler)[ Yet, I think that the prologue is also saying that the good guy really is Arithon and that history has re-wrote his role as the villain. (hide spoiler)]

Solseit wrote: "Olivia wrote: "Ok, so I'll be a bit more detailed since I'm the kind of person who likes to do in-depth reads. (I don't really read chapter summaries etc. - but I love discussing everything!)

Firs..."

Yes, which is why from the start I was already prejudiced towards Lysaer and considered Arithon to be good. So, I'm wondering if Wurts will flip that on us.

Solseit wrote: I agree with you on the preamble..."

I agree with this too, as well as your previous statement.

But today at the reread I also noticed that last line.
'Let each who reads determine the good and the evil for himself.'

And I wondered is it just good and evil as far as the brothers are concerned or more? I mean from Chapter 1 we can already see both of them are a bit grey. Even Arithon. I'll add more of this in a spoiler when I talk about chapter 1.

Olivia wrote: "Ok, so I'll be a bit more detailed since I'm the kind of person who likes to do in-depth reads. (I don't really read chapter summaries etc. - but I love discussing everything!)

First general obser..."

Regarding your observations from Chapter 1 and a bit more that jumped out for me at this reread.

(view spoiler)[Arithon doesn't seem to want to die just to end the feud. As far as I could tell he's got a lot of guilt weighing on him.

1. He tries to slash his wrists and then the first officer notices the way he looks at one moment.
'Only once had he seen such a look on a man's face, and that was the time he had witnessed a felon hanged for the rape of his own daughter.'
to me that says Arithon feels guilty.

2. The curses against the healer. That was quite horrible but, as regards your question:
is he actually cursing these people or is it just empty talk to scare superstitious enemies and to get them to kill him and end it?
taking into account what I now know about Arithon and his powers I am convinced he was trying to get them to kill him.
Because of this:
He curses the healer's firstborn son.
and the healer still treats him because he had only daughters.

But if he hadn't been that quick thinking and realized the curse refers to a son and not a daughter he would have stopped treating him too.
(However, I may be wrong here.)

Then there is that mention of the first officer, that Arithon is crazed enough to provoke his men to slit his throat.

All this makes me think he wants to die but not only because that would end the feud. Because he can also not live with some guilt.

As for him not having any bad bone in his body, there is that sentence:

'Show me a man who's harmless and I'll show you one stone dead.'

And he purposefully taunts and hurts Lysaer too. He smashes through his defenses discarding all the fine intentions that acted for fairness and compassion and plants that memory in the forefront of Lysear's mind knowing it will hurt like a bitch.
And he adds insult to injury by showing him their mother happy with the man she committed adultery with.

That has got to sting anyone. Especially a young man who has been left behind with a crazy father by his own mother who chose to spend her life with the enemy.

The king must have been a bit crazy before taking into account that scene with the mother so it stands to reason he would have become worse after his wife fled. That has got to leave marks for anyone.
And all this shows me Arithon can be bad too if he really wants to.

I also wonder about something else. After the confrontation, Lysaer is thinking:
'The original purpose of his visit seemed tawdry, a meaningless arrogant charade that unmasked a hypocrite player.'

Is the hypocrite player himself because he believed himself to be so good and compassionate and still he resorted to violence?

As to this:
So...is Lysaer's father filled with rage now because his first wife got killed in the feud? (this paragraph isn't trying to tell me that he had an anger problem and killed his first wife and daughter, RIGHT?)

Good question. And I don't know that either. I honestly don't remember the daughter or how Talera died. Just that she died.
(hide spoiler)]

Olivia wrote: "Yes, which is why from the start I was already prejudiced towards Lysaer and considered Arithon to be good. So, I'm wondering if Wurts will flip that on us..."

Me too.

Chapter One Spoilers Only

@Laura

Not a bad bone in his body is probably a bit of an exaggeration but

(view spoiler)[
I just feel like everything Arithon does is with thought for others and I feel like the guilt he feels is because he knows he could end the feud, no?

He knows if it weren't for him, there'd be no feud. (Even though, it's very clear the two sides were enemies before Lysaer's mother an off.)

He knows he'll be tortured and killed, and I feel like both taunting Lysaer and everyone else is so they kill him because it's better than being delivered into the hands of the King.

I didn't think of it as malicious and more desperate. How can you get a man like Lysaer who hasn't ever hit a defenceless man before to snap and kill if not by showing him his mum?

I just feel like Arithon has this sort of weird feeling that just because he's alive the world's suffering is on him and hence throughout he feels guilty for his mere existence.

But I might be wrong.

I must say, I see Janny Wurts say a lot that we haven't uncovered yet all of the hidden layers, even those who have read all the books that are out so far.

So, I wouldn't be surprised if she flipped it on us...

They're both morally grey in places, of course. So perhaps, it's just that. There is no good and no evil...they're both making mistakes.
(hide spoiler)]

@Olivia - You are right.

(view spoiler)[Arithon is clearly desperate here and not bad in my book either but sometimes people do bad things out if desperation and because they don't see any other way out. That's how I saw it with Arithon. What he did with Lysaer was out of despair but it was still wrong and bad.

As far as guilt is concerned- I'm with you on that too. Regarding Arithon and the world suffering.
But because of that sentence Janny set there:
like a felon guilty of having raped his daughter - that points at another type of guilt.
- Because Janny never writes something without meaning. -
That would mean Arithon feels guilty for something he actually did. (hide spoiler)]

Oh yes, Laura, that is a hint for extreme guilt, agreed. I missed that.

Chapter Two:

I'll just tag everything with spoilers but they're for chapter two only!

(view spoiler)[

It's really sad that in Arithon wanted to stop the feud by making the Karthan land green again so there was no need for piracy.

Like this imo shows how much Arithon just takes the entire world on his shoulder and wants to save everyone. If he were on Earth 2020, he'd be trying to solve climate change.

And he has to choose responsibility for his ppl / the world over his inner talents.

The last time I read this I was wondering if the sentence "The master's mysteries you have learned at Rauven must never be used for political expedience" means he CANNOT use his magical gifts or he's simply not allowed to? It says he "renounces" the gifts. That sounds to me like they're being taken away? Or is it just the music part?

But at the same time in the first chapter during the battle it says that the Master of Shadow unleashed fire, sorcery and darkness on his enemies?

So, I'm still confused about what exactly his restrictions are.

Now about Lysaer: his father is a huge . That's all. He basically learns here that if he makes decisions and someone else considers them wrong (AKA his father) other people (AKA his healers) get punished.

I like this part about Lysaer: He never went with a warfleet and used his Light against Karthan but not because he was an honourable man but because Rauven had refused to train him.

"Violence is the habit of the weak, the impotent, and the fool."

Also hello drunk mad prophet who annoys me already. (hide spoiler)]

I really liked your notes Olivia!

I finished chapter IV and I think it is the best just yet. (view spoiler)[ I love how this chapter seems to get ready to set off everything in the years to come. I really enjoy how analytical Arithon is about all the events and how he is trying to understand the big picture; it makes him really likable and a very dangerous trait in a villain, if he is to become one.
I am also starting to feel quite sorry for Lysaer. He has great potential with the powers he has; but other than his father’s influence it does not seem that he has much. In fact, in general, he does not have much going for him and it does even appear that he is all that sharp, also caused by his lack of understanding of the magical arts. (hide spoiler)] I am really looking forward to what happens next!

@Solseit - I had the same impression about both the brothers.

@Olivia - I feel the same about Arithon.
(view spoiler)[He would probably try to fix everything.

As for that sentence, I'm not sure what it fully means either. I'll ask Janny to elaborate a bit so we can understand.

That part about Lysaer not using his talent ONLY because Rauven had refused training kind of shows what kind of person Lysaer could be - at least to me.

As to the unleashing of fire and stuff.

There is this:

'I used sorcery, as Ath is my witness. But never directly to murder. Not even to spare my liege lord.'

This here ties with both Arithon's guilt and that sentence we are trying to figure out- I think.

But what is Arithon feeling guilty for? The fact that he used sorcery? Or the fact that he could have used it to harm and saved his father but he didn't? Or the fact that he used sorcery at all? (That part about
"The master's mysteries you have learned at Rauven must never be used for political expedience" - could it refer to this too?) (hide spoiler)]

I was looking at that sentence as well, Laura and wondering how exactly it ties in with my question about is it taken from him or is he simply not allowed to use it.

Also, that clearly means to me that (view spoiler)[he could have saved his father with sorcery, but his father died in the battle right? (hide spoiler)]