Science Fiction & Philosophy discussion

What if the universe is a simulation, as proposed by a number of thinkers?

This question from member, Manuel; if we assume that we live in a simulation, how do our imperatives chance (morality, etc.)?

That all sounds like determinism.
I just cannot believe in determinism. I believe there is free will.
In a deterministic environment, we could do anything we wished without guilt or mental anguish because we were 'acting out our destinies'.
Pleasure and pain in this world seem pretty real.
If they are not, then what IS reality?
Robin Williams said reality was merely a concept.

Even if it was deterministic in the sense that there is a creator, it may not be deterministic in the sense that a simulation can still give us free will. We simply would eventually rub up against the limits of the simulating environment, and these may appear to us as limits of our physical environment, like the speed of light. There may be no easy way to disprove that we live in a simulation. But utalitarianism would probably say that it doesn't matter. From that lens, our other imperatives would not change, as the pain and happiness would be real enough to warrant moral behaviour.

Michael wrote: "That all sounds like determinism.
I just cannot believe in determinism. I believe there is free will.
In a deterministic environment, we could do anything we wished without guilt or mental anguish ..."

I totally believe in determinism, free will is an illusion. But let's qualify that - from the moment of conception our biochemical make up is determined by our DNA, mother's health, and environmental factors such as nutrition, mother's behaviour, and anything that impacts her pregnancy. And from the moment we begin the process of birth our psychology is determined by the experience of birth, afterbirth our development and again our environment, such as nutrition, freedom or otherwise from fear, and ultimately our socialisation and education. There are countless external influences that make us who we are and theoretically make every response and subsequent action predictable (with a powerful enough quantum computer!!).

The idea of free will relies upon the idea that humans have become isolated from the many factors that made them who they are. Just as in a simulation, this simply isn't possible. And the fact that you believe it is, Michael, is entirely a consequence of the human being you have become through your education and socialisation. I suspect you hold values of the importance of individual freedom that make it extremely undesirable for you to believe in determinism.

And for the religious who believe God gave them free will (the usual 'get out of jail card' for all the bad stuff humans have done, that free will was an illusion if given to beings already constrained by his or her design limitations.

I don't 'believe' we live in a simulation but I can see that someone who 'believes' in a creator could easily subscribe to the idea as it's not that dissimilar to religious interpretations of our universe. The key word for me is 'belief', and that suggests accepting something without knowledge. Whatever that might be is neither proven nor disproven to me - religion or atheism - simulation or not - there's insufficient evidence to decide.

At this point the idea of morality becomes one of utility (it serves all our best interests to live by certain 'moral' codes), and conscience. The latter remains elusive because we don't yet fully understand consciousness but the socialisation of neurotypical humans generally results in the capacity for love and compassion, whether evolutionary or otherwise, and this guides our conscience.

So our theoretical simulation does have an imperative for morality in my view.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/...

I’m not sure if this belongs here but I found it really interesting. Do we create reality?

Maureen wrote: "https://www.newscientist.com/article/...

I’m not sure if this belongs here but I found it really interesting. Do we c..."

How fascinating - this is almost straying into the territory of solipsism.

Maureen wrote: "https://www.newscientist.com/article/...

I’m not sure if this belongs here but I found it really interesting. Do we c..."

I got as far as the paywall but it's an interesting idea - the question is, which one of us is real? Are you all my creations or am I one of yours?

I found myself contemplating yesterday how seldom I think of my internal body. I'm aware of the outside but pretty much everything hidden by my skin that keeps me alive and powers my consciousness, just happens and I almost never visualise it happening. My constructed reality is far more complex than the images and words in my head.