The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Why is Dick commanding the “outlaws”?

What is the danger Joanna is in right now?

What happened on the boat?

Who is Foxham, and what does he want Dick to do?

Are you able to follow the story well?

Are you enjoying it?

Lori wrote: "Are you able to follow the story well? Are you enjoying it?"

Actually, I did have more trouble following the action in this section than in the previous two, which affected my ability to properly visualize it, which results in my enjoying this section a bit less. I also was surprised that Joanna was depicted as being tall.
However, I did like that this section clarified the Lancaster/York partisan aspects. This helps make the action broader in scope and not merely a local dispute between Sir Daniel and his enemies.
Despite my problems visualizing the activity, I am able to follow the general plot and remain curious about what happens next.

I had a lot of trouble visualizing the activity in this section as well, especially what happened on the boat.

I had less trouble following the action on the boat than I did when reading Treasure Island a few years ago, where Stevenson uses all sorts of technical sailing terms without adequate context! I get the sense he was a sailor and liked to parade his knowledge.

The “continuity” thing that bothered me the most in this section was Foxham’s injury. He acted as if he were near death but then they all walked up the cliffs. Were his men carrying Foxham? It wasn’t mentioned. In general, injury and death are such commonplaces in this story, they are mentioned casually and the consequences not treated as relevant. I begin to picture the landscape littered with unburied bodies!

The encounter between Dick and Foxham made me chuckle, it was so redolent of British boy’s-tale morality. They meet, they fall to attacking each other, that makes them like and respect each other, so immediately they’re fast friends and trust each other with their lives. Only a culture with tremendous cultural uniformity could even imagine such a thing.

Joanna is, not surprisingly, being treated as a commodity and Sir Daniel is trying to sell her for financial and political profit. Foxham was her previous guardian, mentioned in Book I, so presumably he has a better right than Sir Daniel to sell her off. At least he seems willing to sell her to Dick, whom she likes!

As far as I can tell, Dick is being put in a leadership position simply because he is “gentry,” so his leadership capabilities are taken as inherent. We’ll see, but he certainly didn’t display much talent for the role in this section!

It is interesting how the large-scale political allegiances (Lancaster vs. York) are treated by most of the characters as secondary to personal alliances. That is one aspect of the story that seems true to life. My sense of the period is that the affairs of state were quite distant and irrelevant to even property holders in the shires, much less to the common people, and local concerns and conflicts had much more immediacy. Dick’s attitude seems classic: Sir Daniel is Lancaster (for now)—I hate Sir Daniel—therefore I’m with York.

Abigail wrote: " The encounter between Dick and Foxham made me chuckle, it was so redolent of British boy’s-tale morality. They meet, they fall to attacking each other, that makes them like and respect each other, so immediately they’re fast friends and trust each other with their lives. "

Reading that section, while my thoughts didn't revert to a boys' book, they go to something similar - the scene in the 1930s Errol Flynn version of Robin Hood where Robin runs into 'Little John" and they engage in a quarterstaff duel on the bridge, which then proceeds in the manner Abigail describes as typical of British boys tales.

Abigail wrote: "I had less trouble following the action on the boat than I did when reading Treasure Island a few years ago, where Stevenson uses all sorts of technical sailing terms without adequate context! I ge..."

Your comment about guys fighting and then becoming friends is exactly what we are seeing in The Vicomte de Bragelonne, including this week! And again, it is a society of cultural uniformity.

A lot happened in this section, mostly unfavourable to the rescue of Joanna.
Stevenson's descriptions of the dark cold sea and sky are very effective. Not only were many of the men seasick, they were also cold and wet.

I had some trouble following the action in this section as well. What troubled me was the recklessness of this rescue attempt. No forethought of possible consequences and how to retreat. Attempting Joanna‘s rescue during a stormy night. Just stealing a boat and wrecking it without regard towards the actual owner. Dick is certainly still a teenager in his mind, unable to think ahead and immature in his actions. That nobody is really questioning this (especially Foxham) is remarkable. And once disaster strikes Dick and Foxham become friends, and all is forgotten. I guess belonging to the upper class supersedes everything else, it helps also that they „fight“ for the same faction.
It’s a story for youngsters, whose brains are not yet fully formed and a tendency towards irrationality is nothing unusual.
The Description of the Storm was done well. I was thinking what Hollywood would make of something like this.

First of all some location guessing.

The ‘German’ Sea is the old name of the North Sea which runs up the east coast of the UK.

Considering the position of York, I think that Shoreby is probably Scarborough, before it became a fashionable seaside resort in Victorian times. Shoreby is close to Tunstall forest and Scarborough is just east of Dalby Forest, shown with a pin on map 1 (see maps). Dalby Forest has existed since the Bronze Age and covers a large area from Hackness, just west of Scarborough to Thornton-le-Dale.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/fa/...

http://www.mapmoose.com/maps/NorthYor...

I like to picture where these skirmishes might be taking place.

Book three threw up a lot of surprises for me but more of that later.

Lori’s first question links to the first surprise I encountered.

Why should Ellis Duckworth put Dick in charge of his band of outlaws, many of whom are hardened criminals, when he is so inexperienced? I thought Ellis was a wise man, but was he just starstruck about Dick’s father being a nobleman. Whatever it was, the chickens came home to roost when Dick’s ridiculous ship idea was blown out of the water and many lives lost.

Another surprise was that Dick recognised Joanna straight away, done up in all her finery, after months apart from her.

She might have looked like this.

http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ains...

Rather different from their last meeting.

The third surprise was that Dick allowed Lord Foxham to yield, rather than run him through like he did with the woodsman. Could that be Joanna’s influence, or the fact that he was now a leader and had tempered his hot headed impulsiveness? It could be that he was demonstrating his chivalrous nature, knowing that it was the tide that was getting the better of Lord Foxham and not himself. Whatever made him do it, it was a wise decision because he now has Foxham’s blessing to marry Joanna if he can rescue her.

The fourth surprise was that Dick was willing to become a criminal like the outlaws he commanded and steal a ship. Is there nothing he won’t do to rescue Joanna? Did it matter that only eight out of forty men knew how to manage the ship and that most of them became seasick and unfit for battle? The fifth surprise was that such an experienced military man as Foxham went along with Dick’s plan to use the ship to try and rescue Joanna. Is it because he yielded to Dick and was essentially his prisoner? Even so, a word of advice as to the foolishness of the venture might have been helpful and by keeping quiet it looks like he might have lost his life.

Overall I am enjoying the story, although this week’s section seemed less credible to me compared with the previous sections.

I also struggled a bit to understand how Dick came to be in charge of a large number of the outlaws, and how they all fell to fighting and killing Foxham's men until Foxham and Dick decided to stop fighting and become friends, at which point they were all friends now, even if some had just killed other's best mates. Very mind-boggling. Later in the story Foxham is trying to decide how much he'll trust Dick and it all depends on if he is for York or Lancaster, and fortunately he picks the right team or otherwise what? Would they have had to become enemies again? It would all be rather amusing if they weren't all actually killing and maiming each other.

It keeps reminding me of comic books, though with a lot fancier language.

Good point, Robin! Appeals to the same audience as comic books, but in a different generation with different educational standards.

Yes, good point!

I am enjoying the story, so far. I too wondered why so many decided to follow Dick, who is only an unexperienced boy, but he soon proves to be a valid fighter and is able to win with Lord Foxham. Also it surprised me that in an evening of snow and gales, when all the boats are safe in the harbour, they decide go out in the open sea! Those poor men, cold and seasick, how I understand them! :-D
There are many dead and injured man in this section. I haven't watched the series about this part yet, the Italian series I am watching while I read the book, I wonder if they have deleted something in this part, it was meant to be a series for families and it was aired on Sunday evenings.

Life is certainly cheap in this book!

Abigail wrote: "Life is certainly cheap in this book!"

Yes, this was a bit disturbing to me.