Brain Pain discussion

Le Comte de Lautréamont (pseudonym of Isidore-Lucien Ducasse) published The Songs of Maldoror in 1869.


Wikipedia page for Le Comte de Lautréamont :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comte_de...


Wikipedia page for Les Chants de Ladoror (The Songs of Maldoror):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Chan...


Feel free to use this thread to ask questions and post links to resources for Le Comte de Lautréamont and The Songs of Maldoror.

Also, if you’ve written a review of the book, please post a link to share with the group.

I wrote a review, and it's not spoilery, but if you're already planning to read the book, it would be a reasonable idea to skip the review until after you've read it. If you're pondering whether you should read or not, then you might want to skim some reviews until you're intrigued. Since I'm liable to forget to post it later, here's a link: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Meanwhile, I have a question despite having already read this work (in English translation):

In what way, if any, is this book poetry? Is it merely a conceit to refer to "songs" or "cantos"? My perception of both Maldoror and "Poems" is that they are prose works, unless something very radical happened in the translation process.

Zadignose wrote: "Meanwhile, I have a question despite having already read this work (in English translation):

In what way, if any, is this book poetry? Is it merely a conceit to refer to "songs" or "cantos"? My pe..."

I would vote for "conceit" for the cantos thing...

I think it's this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prose_po...
Prose poetry is poetry written in prose instead of using verse but preserving poetic qualities such as heightened imagery, parataxis and emotional effects.

Cool, I think these answers kind of resolve it... whether we call it prose poetry, or prose that's sort-of-poetic in intent, or a conceit... anyway, I didn't get a corrupted translation that eliminated a native verse form.

I think HE thinks they're poems: the text I have consists of long paragraphs, no breaks, which are each labelled as a strophe. They're not in verse, in that line-breaky mise en page way that we're used to, but I'm withholding judgement until I actually read the text. Do we define poem by mise en page?

I'd also kind of like to read the intro: I skimmed a little because I'm lazy, but he seems to be in the middle of some kind of discussion about poetry/poetics?, and there are some pieces of contemporary writing about the work that call it a long poem, or "poésies" but in quotes. Point being, I guess, that it's maybe an open question, and maybe even a deliberate one.

Also, if you read French, there is ten years' worth of Maldoror obsession to be found here: http://blog.maldoror.org/

I always thought of Maldoror as prose poetry -- along the lines of Artuad, or Rimbuad's "Season in Hell".

Still trying to figure out what The Book of Disquiet is, but that's a story for another day.

I was totally amazed when I read this book a few years ago and would encourage members to give it a go. It went straight onto my 'To-read-again' shelf as soon as I finished.

Surely, when you read the quote below, that appears on the first page, you'll just be tempted to continue reading:

It is not right that everyone should read the pages which follow; only a few will be able to savour this bitter fruit with impunity. Consequently, shrinking soul, turn on your heels and go back before penetrating further into such uncharted, perilous wastelands. Listen well to what I say: turn on your heels and go back, not forward...

BTW My review is here. There's really no danger of spoilers with this book as there's not much of a plot. It's best read in small chunks though.

I'd love to read along with the group, but may not have the time to join in.

The Arrogant Bastard of literature, eh?

This is an aggressive ale. You probably won’t like it. It is quite doubtful that you have the taste or sophistication to be able to appreciate an ale of this quality and depth. We would suggest that you stick to safer and more familiar territory--

I don't think it's quite the same, as I'm not sure he thinks his book is a superior product. The overt claim, anyway, is not that it's got quality and depth, but rather that it's poisonous and evil and potentially corrupting.

Out of curiosity: what edition is everyone reading?
I've got Maldoror and the Complete Works, translated by Lykiard.

The 'Note on the text and translation' section of the introduction is quite entertaining. Basically a character assassination of every other English edition.

I've also got Penguin Classics' Paul Knight translation, with "Poems". I loved it, so the translator at least didn't do a completely ruinous job of translation. Whether there's a better one, I'm ill-equipped to say. It would be interesting to know what Lykiard had to say about Knight's translation, and to compare a few passages as we go.

The Surrealists, especially Breton, claimed Le Comte de Lautréamont as a kind of spiritual ancestor, or proto-surrealist.

Here's a link to the First Surrealist Manifesto of 1924. Perhaps we can discover why they thought of Lautrémont as they did.

http://www.tcf.ua.edu/Classes/Jbutler...



From Wikipedia:

Surrealism is a cultural movement that began in the early 1920s, and is best known for its visual artworks and writings. The aim was to "resolve the previously contradictory conditions of dream and reality."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrealism

An interesting discussion of four English translations:

http://markerstetter.blogspot.fr/2012...

Zadignose wrote: "It would be interesting to know what Lykiard had to say about Knight's translation, and to compare a few passages as we go"

Lykiard had a field day with that one.

He begins

The so-called Penguin Classics edition (trans. P. Knight 1978, inexplicably reprinted 1988) is a disgrace. Beginning with the author's name misspelt on the cover and with a jacket-copy wording that remains suspiciously similar to that on the Allison & Busby 1979 edition, evidence of shoddy carelessness persist throughout.

...and goes on for three paragraphs.

"it is more often incorrect and certainly incomplete" ... "arbitrary tense changes and switches from singular to plural abound; punctuation is wilfully ignored or reinvented"", and so on.

Lykiard seems to be not a fan of neither Knight nor Penguin Classics.

If you can find a copy in the library, check out the Note on the Text and Translation (pg 20-24). It really is enjoyable.

I'll have to see if I can find the Lykiard translation as it sounds as if it might be quite good. I read the Penguin edition as it was the easiest to get; it seemed ok though.

I agree that it is best read in small chunks. Some of the lines warrant lingering, allowing the images to wash over me. And then some of the images caused me to want to skim ahead. A balancing act, as it were...again, best experienced in chunks.

The comparison of translations was definitely worth reading. At the same time, it emerges that criticism of one or another depends on niggling over little details. Also, to condemn the Knight version for cover art, spelling on the spine, etc. is really wrong-headed.

Strangely enough to me, though the author of that article really liked the cover art for the Wernham translation, I'd say I hate the cover art and design of ALL versions of this book. They're all just brutally awful to my eye. But fortunately that's a detail that doesn't impact my appreciation of the text.

Zad, how about this frontispiece ?

http://www.maremurex.net/isidore1.jpg

I can't see it all that well, but... it may be a slight improvement. However, I do like the title page on the right. That alone should be the cover, with the little troubadour guy singing/proclaiming. Cool.

It's an image from chanson 3.5: a young man trailing his own skin behind him. I can't really find a better picture, unfortunately, but you can see his skin behind him once you know it's there.

Ah, it looked as though he were stepping over some slaughtered being... but it is himself. Well, it suits.