Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for the Lifelik3 trilogy by Jay Kristoff, starting with LIFEL1K3 on January 15, 2022.

Thanks, Niki!

Bookmarking this page. :)

If you haven't checked it out yet, the "review from the author" is really funny. He gives a better back-of-book blurb and shares it like an interview. Also, his elevator pitch is hilarious, quoted here: (view spoiler)[My elevator pitch was “Romeo and Juliet meets Bladerunner, while Fury Road plays a guitar solo in the background.” (hide spoiler)]

Just checked this out from the library. Now to finish Heroes Die and Sword of Destiny and not get distracted by anything else!

How's the moving going, Mayim?

I feel I am getting nowhere but it’s probably because I’m just at the apex of chaos *sigh* when the old is dismantled and he new is not set yet. I actually started the heroes die today because I was intrigued. I’ll see if I like it and if not might jumps to lifelike a bit earlier.

Also, yank you for asking. I’m super stressed.

Mayim wrote: "I feel I am getting nowhere but it’s probably because I’m just at the apex of chaos *sigh* when the old is dismantled and he new is not set yet."

I wish you hugs and speedy sorting. I just took the plastic down over winter holidays, after about two years of various construction projects. I didn't even realize how stressful it had all been until it was all over and felt like there was a huge weight lifted. May you find everything you need swiftly, and may everything find its comfortable place.

Yey to reading Heroes Die! It'll be a good escape from moving woes. I hope things settle swiftly for you.

Nirkatze wrote: "May you find everything you need swiftly, and may everything find its comfortable place."

I wish you hugs and speedy sorting. ..."

Thank you so much, Nirkatze. That is so considerate of you.

/hugs

I'm picking this up from the library today and will start probably today. Somehow I got my wires crossed and had checked out book 2! Whoops

I have started last night and - lo and behold - could not put down so here is my stream of consciousness up until the end of part 1:

(view spoiler)[
- he definitely has a thing for girls with faux hawks, no? There was Cat in the Aurora's Cycle and now Evie (but why oversized boots too?);
- he is both a very skilled world builder and story-teller (even if there is noting super tricky about dystopian, post-apocalyptic vistas, you need to make sure they stand out at least a bit and that they feel real: I am not a UN national so I could not care less about that he did to Califronia, but I imagine that an average American teenager was entranced with the Yousay idea);
- what I think he does best though is fleshing out the relations between his protagonists. They tend to be outcasts and survivors and that is a peculiar lot, but I thought his books are very often about how fiercely they love the things (or people) they still have. The bond between Evie and Lemon (who was just kind of adopted I assume) or when she saved the cyborg dog - these are the things I have in mind;
- the story evolves seamlessly and he really knows how to write chapters, every time I wanted to stop a bomb dropped or something else happened that forced me to continue;
- the Priest is rather scary, since he is able to shoot a wounded boy looking him in the eyes (!!!) then I assume he is not a cheerful ally - even though it is the lifelikes that seem to be the primary antagonists for now (the Brotherhood in general is just noise);
- having said this I still don't understand why they took the body and not the bloody arm!(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

End of part 2 reflections:

(view spoiler)[
oh that kraken was an unnecessary overkill - like I understand our girl needed to sort out the past versus the now but this whole part is where the whole excitement dissipated and I found myself less and less interested in what is going on, and more and more speculating what is going to happen

noteworthy:
- we don't know much about Lemon but was there anything special that made her interesting for the kraken crew?
- this idea of androids having sex - I am still unsure what I think about it? I mean I understand the concept is that they do everything that humans do - but then - I am sure they don't really breathe or defecate, also I'd think they would not breed?
-still having problems viasualising Ezekiel's martial/physical superiority WITH ONE ARM ONLY
- how come is the preacher in Armada??? It's obvious that he could not trace them through water so it must have been an EXTRAORDINARY piece of luck that put him there? (hide spoiler)]

I sure hope things get more interesting in part three...

Mayim wrote: "... here is my stream of consciousness up until the end of part 1:..."

Well that was a pretty high adrenaline part 1!!!(view spoiler)[
Ha! I forgot about Cat's faux hawk! Of course futuristic badass girls all style their hair like that! Hahaha

I'm half American and no longer a teenager but I have to admit I did kind of like Kalifornya and The Grand Ol'Yousay...and Zona (Arizona?) and Saint Andreas (San Andreas fault).

That being said, living in Australia, I find it irritating that his books and the ones with Amie Kaufman are always written in American English and centered around US things/people/places. Just because it's more marketable? I much prefer Aussie authors who give a nod to Australia in their books instead of pretending to be Americans. American readers, who often subconsciously feel like they're the centre of the universe, might think Jay and Amie are American authors.... No offense to Americans...

I also really like how the characters are super loyal to each other, even the metal dog!!! It's breaking my heart to hear her think about someone (Gramps! Her only forever person) has been lying to her and now he can't explain himself to her.

I love the Priest. I'm guessing bounty hunter? (hide spoiler)]

Mayim wrote: "End of part 2 reflections: ..."(view spoiler)[

Agreed, part 2 was pretty lukewarm. Basically a side adventure for her backstory to come out but boring and pointless otherwise. I guess it also plants the seed that Lemon Fresh is special somehow? But we don't know how yet?

And what's with Eve short-circuiting things???

A bit too much lovey dovey ya romance... And would they actually build androids with man bits?? lol I don't think so but... (hide spoiler)]

Just cracked open the book. Enjoying the sista-ship. And Cricket. Cricket's the bee's knees.

Happily I don't remember anything from my first read of this.

Part 3 got a bit more exciting than part 2? And...(view spoiler)[

I personally dislike the trope: bad guys are indestructible and good guys are always a hair's breadth from success... I like the Priest but he can track people through unbelievable means, he wins every fight, he gets a better getaway car than the good guys and then manages to catch them, he can do acrobatic feats on the back of a moving vehicle in a glass storm but they can't kill him...and so on...bit annoying imho

I did like the new discoveries about her past and I absolutely didn't see coming that Lemon Fresh was the abnorm!!!! That was a fun surprise. Unfortunately I did see coming that Zeke was the one that killed her (his knowledge of human anatomy allowed him to shoot her in a way that wouldn't actually killer but would be convincing to his siblings?? and Silas could put her back together?). The romance subplot is a bit too tropey for me but I'm going along with it.

The whole argument she had about removing the explosives from the dog irritated me, this whole logika should have a choice thing. I get it, but after years of watching Star Trek The Next Generation... Sorry, they don't have feelings. They are programmed to want to save you so let them save you. But my annoyance was erased when the dog chose to blow itself up after all. Aww

OK so I realize I sound a bit annoyed 🤦‍♀️ but I really am enjoying myself! I swear! lol

(hide spoiler)]

Want to stay up late finishing this but probably should get some sleep instead...

Part 1 reflections, after reading Laura & Mayim--ty folks! Enjoyed your thoughts & focuses. (view spoiler)[I too really enjoy the relationships building up. "Stronger together." "Together forever.". Though part of me is anticipating major tears and heartstring tugs in the future. And Kaiser! He's such a good boy. I find the machine descriptions--like the "heatsink tongue" really interesting too.

The language does a lot to set the atmosphere. Lots of devolved slang, and of course the blurred America geography--Zona Bay is my favorite so far, though Yousay is a close second. @Laura--it was really interesting hearing your thoughts as an Australian. As an American, I'd love to read more things with Australia nods too!

@Mayim--the arm! I keep thinking they have to go back for it. Whyyyyyy!

I also find it interesting how obviously the "secret" has been set up--that Evie might not be Eve and her memories and past might not be what she thinks is pretty clear from the start--I have heard that common cornerstones of the YA genre are to a) move fast and b) KISS. Or is there a deeper twist behind it? I'm still looking forward to finding out how exactly "Ana" fits in to everything.

From just the one glimpse, I love the Preacher as an antagonist! Hoping he'll be the type of hard badass who'll change sides eventually. I mean, he has a fluffy white dog. And he wasn't wrong about being able to help the boy by killing him--without high level medical tech, gut wounds are a long slow painful death. And who's going to waste medical tech on a nobody from the scrapyard?
(hide spoiler)]

On color & lifelikes through 1.11 (view spoiler)[I find it interesting that in Evie's flashbacks the predominant color of her surroundings is white. That gives the whole Babel tower a very clinical-hospital-science experiment feel. Then the red roses over it--foretelling blood.

The "I can't love him he's not a person" repeats are a bit overdone, I'm feeling--but then, the emo romance aspect of YA is my least favorite part. It just makes me think of why that would matter? There are two levels (or maybe three)--if she loves him, and if he loves her. She's worried that she shouldn't love him, because as a machine, he is incapable of loving her. But the real issue is--if she can believe that he loves her. Because we can never truly know what someone is thinking or feeling. We always have to trust that what they say is what they feel, and that hypothesis is supported by their actions. This doesn't matter if it is a fleshbag human or a patented machine. So really, if the Lifelikes believe that they can love, or Kaiser or Cricket are programmed to think they can love, and they tell you so, who are you to tell them they're wrong Evie? Just accept their love and be richer for it.

One quote from 1.15: "One can’t help but question the wisdom of creating machines that are physically superior to their creators, yet emotionally subjacent. The lifelikes are possessed of an adult human’s capacity to feel, but they lack a lifetime’s experience in dealing with those feelings." That combination--high intelligence, strength, but stunted emotional growth seems like prime psychopath formula. Also an interesting nature v. nurture argument. (hide spoiler)]

Random thought: Cricket is truthful like an Aes Sedai.

Chapter 1.15 Lemon (view spoiler)[I wonder if the Nau'shi are programmed to save any vanilla human and treat them as "special"? Though the plan to haul Lemon back to their city and study her kinda undercuts that idea. (hide spoiler)]

Post part 2 thoughts, re: android bits (view spoiler)[Makes me think of Battlestar Galactica humanoid Cylons and the question--at what point do the differences still matter?

Ana's father seemed to have more of a plan in mind for the Lifelikes than just as bodyguards and secretaries. I got the impression that he saw them as the future of humanity. If he had enough time, would he have uploaded himself into a Lifelike body? So they would then have to have the ability to reproduce. Or at the very least, I can't imagine an adult individual, high on god-power, making a perfect being that couldn't provide pleasure through sex.

I also wonder whether Ana, post explosion, wasn't "upgraded" with Lifelike parts.

Also, whenever Eve thinks about who she is, the punny part of my brain says Eve + Ana = Ava! Go new name! Just changing her name to Riotgrrl would work too!

re: Lemon--I was originally thinking she was special just for being pure human, but after reading Laura & Mayim's thoughts, and remembering that she was abandoned as a baby, I'm thinking y'all are right and there's got to be something more. That, and Lemon telling Eve they needed to talk. Maybe she's actually a Deviant? Maybe the tech malfunctions were her, not Eve?

I agree on the Preacher--very convenient! He just decided to hop over to Armada? Maybe he had a clue about Ezekiel working out of there previously? Who hired him anyway? Same people as Faith, or different? Also, I'm glad he cares for his dog and didn't just kill it like the scrapboy. (hide spoiler)]

@Nirkatze I loved your thoughts on the romance angle. Spot on. (view spoiler)[ and why can she love Cricket and not Zeke? (hide spoiler)]

@Laura I know right? (view spoiler)[And Kaiser too. Though to be fair, I love Cricket but not Zeke--but then Zeke's a bit too young for me and he's taken. Is it just me or does he not seem to have much personality yet? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 1.24, favorite quote (view spoiler)[Cricket: “You know, democracy sounds like a great idea until you spend three minutes with the average voter.” (hide spoiler)]

1.24 revising part 2 thoughts (view spoiler)[One of the chapters a bit ago voided the reproduction theory--though I have to say, if they can regenerate their whole body parts, new Lifelikes en naturale should be totally possible--just programed out of them.

Also, Preacher having little Mary execute there killed a bunch of his coolness factor. He still makes a great villain, but I'm no longer rooting for a redemption arc. Though the trenchcoat makes him seem kind of like Dresden gone bad to me. (hide spoiler)]

Part 1 Nirkatze (view spoiler)[

Definitely no personality for Zeke, just this pathetic extreme devotion...and there's nothing more to him than that!

Yeah good quote, Cricket has a lot of good ones. I liked one about how what they were doing was pants-on-head crazy.

Poor Mary... Preacher working for the mega corporations also makes him a thoroughly unredeemable baddie.... (hide spoiler)]

@Laura--glad I'm not the only one who thinks that way about Zeke! Still, (view spoiler)[I can forgive Zeke since he's technically only two. He's got time to grow a personality. What's weirder is Ana dating a two year old who is probably based on her brother. (hide spoiler)]

Preacher (view spoiler)[I like that he has more facets than just pure evil. He doesn't seem to enjoy killing--it's just business. And he'll avoid it if he can. And he does care for his dogs, even if he ordered poor Mary to execute. Good villain. (hide spoiler)]

End of Part 3 thoughts (view spoiler)[NOOOO KAISER!!!!!! Gonna have some tears about that.

Yes Lem! Finally got a prediction right!

Rant: And get over yourself Ana/Eve/Ava! Oooh, so she lied to you. So frickin' what? You hid your secrets from her too! And Lem still stuck by you through everything. Get. Over. Yourself.

Oh, so it's Lem's fault the headhunter came after you? So she should have let you get pummeled by the Goliath? Or announced to the world and said "hey, no, sorry, come kill me instead"? Sure, she should have told you, but take a look at it from her side. Your secret is that you're a spoiled rich kid whose family got scrubbed by your boyfriend's family. Tragic, but not fearsome. Her secret is that she's what everyone hunts and fears in this timeline. I think she's got reason to keep it quiet. And she did try to tell you multiple times.

So again, Get. Over. Yourself. I bet you're just jealous that you're not "special" and it's actually Lem who is the useful one. Well, suck it up and deal with it.

Okay, rant over. Whew. Sorry!
(hide spoiler)]

Done! End thoughts (view spoiler)[Yay! I got two twists! Always makes me feel smart when one or two of the many theories I spit out actually hit the target. I'm just going to ignore all the wrong ones. :)

I like Eve not being the "good" main character anymore. I mean, hopefully she'll come around and not go all terminator evil, but she needs serious growth and this makes her more interesting to me. And the split Anas--I'd like to see Zeke deal with that--give him some growth too. I wonder if the second book will follow Lemon instead?

I'd also like to see Cricket get the virus, so he can make the decision to love and protect people by himself without being forced by code, and then hold up his lighter-finger to the Lifelikes and say "See that fuggies? I'm unshackled and still not a homicidal asshole." (hide spoiler)]

Are we doing the second book at the same time next month? I'm still down!

Agreed! Super ending. (view spoiler)[ my favourite part is how it's not a happy ending! Yay!! Ha!

Eve took a turn for the pissed off bitch but I guess I get that she realized maybe it wasn't her who Zeke actually loved, especially if the real Ana is still alive...but is she a vegetable? And is Eve kind of as real as Ana now? In an Android kind of way? Hmmm I like how the lines between bot and real are very blurred.

I think Kristoff may have made it look like she was joining forces with Gabriel at the end but she wasn't actually? He's the only one that hasn't lied to her and doesn't want/expect anything from her anymore so maybe she's going to do I don't know what ??? but with his help? I have no clue what her next step would be though. (hide spoiler)]

I was ready to jump into the next book as soon as I finished this one! lol. I'm happy to wait, happy to go for it... I've got a couple of BRs coming in Feb but could probably make it work then or in Jan maybe too. What do you all think?

Are you out from under moving boxes, Mayim?

re: ending (view spoiler)[Nice point about who Zeke might really love. It's gotta be tough knowing that there's another version of yourself out there, and thinking that makes you not-real. Real crisis of identity there.

But I do think it comes back to: Does she love Zeke? Does Zeke love her? I don't feel like the "Am I real" thing should factor in to it. She had come so far in deciding to make herself into the person she wanted to be regardless of her past, but now she's regressed.

As far as Gabriel goes--I hope so! Though I can also see her helping lead the machine rebellion--hopefully with minimal bloodshed. (hide spoiler)]

I'm hitting Ember in the Ashes now, then Eye of the world on the 19th, Malazan on the 25th, and I think five books in Feb between the 1st & 8th. >.< But I want to read them all! I'm pretty sure I can fit in book two in the middle of Feb, but I'm not sure I can squeeze it in before then.

Oh my! Your busy! I'm cool with 15 Feb. Bit of a nail-biter!

It'll come quickly enough!

Usually I read series straight through, so this many-series-one-book-a-month thing is different and interesting. But at least since joining all these BRs I haven't been plagued by my biggest worry--not being able to decide what to read next! Haven't had a bad case of post-series blues for two months now. :)

For some reason (GoodReads, do you have a grudge???) I was not getting notifications on this thread! And so I was lazing around even though I finished the book some time ago.

Nirkatze, I love how vivid your imagination is, the comment on colours was spot on. That Chapter 1.24, favourite quote is Winston Churchill if I am not mistaken.

As to the final part - I read it in bits and pieces because life and boxes so it might be that some of the drama escaped me and I was not able to properly internalise the tension of the reveals - for this reason this seemed overcooked to me. Kristoff has this

thing for weird
typesetting
AND
editing

And when you read a page or two here and there it is more of an eyeroll than a gasp reaction.

(view spoiler)[Overall, I liked the reveals, even though I agree with Nirkatze that she needs to get over herself. Teenaging and all, but this reaction was a little bit too much given what they went through together. One thing that cheers me up is how splendid her next meeting with the Preacher will be, right? I hope he will leave Lemon alone.

I am not sure yet whether I am buying the whole transhumanist perspective and the existential problems of an android. Overall the "liberation technology" passages concerning AI, and the metal fists that will rise in defiance were not resonating with me. But I am - a machine is a machine type of girl. (hide spoiler)]

My reading schedule is totally spontaneous at this point so I will join whenever it is convenient for you guys and dolls.

@Mayim--thanks for the Winston Churchill info! And I can see what you're saying about the typesetting.

(view spoiler)[I'd love to see another meeting with Preacher! I hope he's not completely out of the game. He was an interesting bad guy. (hide spoiler)]

I was kind of thinking he'd been reduced to slag!

Laura Tenfingers wrote: "I was kind of thinking he'd been reduced to slag!"

Only the bottom half, right? He doesn't need it!

I don't believe we've seen the last of him.

You're probably right. He was augmented in ways we could only speculate on so he's probably indestructible. And he's such a great baddie!

Starting Deviate!!

Oooooooh, I’m just on time then! Will join tomorrow.

Whooo! I'll be along in about a week. Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts!

Part 1(view spoiler)[

I'm having fun with Lemon Fresh and Cricket but was kind of wondering what happened to Eve especially but also Ezekiel. But them we got an Eve glimpae at the end there and all was well. Curious where we're all going

I'm liking the Priest even more.

It feels like he's trying to say something deep and meaningful about AI but then it's not... (hide spoiler)]

I'm loving Grimm! In part 2.14.

2.15 Sorry, Kristoff, but you can't be a new species unless you can't interbreed with the old one...

I like the slang Kristoff makes up. Preacher thinking "hurt like a flying kick to the lovegun" ? 🙈Haha and social turmoil site for social media?

In Part 2...How have they not run out of 40 year old powdered eggs?? Where are they getting petrol?🤔🤔🤔

Just started the book! And with a bang does it start!

Loving your comments Laura! LOL at the terminology!

Is it wrong that I ship Zeke/Lemon and Cricket/Eve?

Still in Chapter 2.1 (view spoiler)[Cricket not feeling well--my first thought is the Liberatas virus. Probably won't be, but I'd love to see a Free Cricket.

edit Yup, not the virus. But hey, Zeke, if you're heading back to Babel, maybe pick one up for Crick?

Lemon & Cricket by far my favorite characters.

And I forgot how much I loved the slanguage. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2.2 (view spoiler)[“She’s not Ana, Lemon,” Ezekiel said. “She never was.” Oh buuuuurn. That's just mean. So does that mean that everything you and she have had together since the accident mean nothing? You should be having more of an internal crisis over this than you are, Z-man. If you dismiss her just because she's a lifelike, how does that make you any different from the rest of the humans?

Still, I never signed on to the Zeke/Ana-or-Eve boat. I much prefer Lemon.

I love how Lem is still dishing out rules too--“Rule Number Seven in the Scrap, Dimples. Never scam a scammer.”

“I’m the sidekick, Dimples. I can’t carry this show by myself.” Oh, yes you can Lem, yes you can! I already prefer you carrying the story to Eve. Lemon Fresh is the kind of character I can see derailing author's carefully laid Romeo and Juliet plans to make the story better by re-centering it around themselves.

Huh-oh...Lem's sick. Radiation poisoning already? Or just bad food like Lem thinks? Doesn't bode well either way.

Whoa--bee lady is weird! When Lem says she's "seen that kind of outfit before" was she referring to Preacher, or someone we don't know of in Lem's memory?

But Preacher was hired by Daedalus, and Zeke thinks bee lady is BioMaas. (hide spoiler)]

Did an ebook search for Lemon's Rules, across book 1&2. The number in the parenthesis is the chapter they show up, and each rule is hidden in spoiler tags. So this is double spoiler tagged.

Without further ado, presenting Lemon's Rules in the Scrap:
(view spoiler)[
(1.2) Rule Number One. (view spoiler)[Stronger together, together forever. (hide spoiler)]
(1.3) Rule Number Three. (view spoiler)[Carry the biggest stick. (hide spoiler)]
(1.18) Rule Number Four. (view spoiler)[Never look away. Never show the weak, even if you feel it. (hide spoiler)]
(2.7) Rule Number Five. (view spoiler)[Takers keepers. (hide spoiler)]
(1.18) Rule Number Six. (view spoiler)[Think first, die last. (hide spoiler)]
(2.2) Rule Number Seven. (view spoiler)[Never scam a scammer. (hide spoiler)]
(1.18) Rule Number Eight. (view spoiler)[The dead don’t fight another day. (hide spoiler)]
(2.2) Rule Number Nine. (view spoiler)[Spit makes it stick. (hide spoiler)]

Very curious to know what Rule Number Two is. Not going to search book three until we start though!
(hide spoiler)]

Did some bee research, chapter 2.2--(view spoiler)[did a little research on bees after this chapter because I'd always heard that bees die when they sting, and it was bugging me. Pun not intended.

Turns out, it's only honey bees, even the most deadly bee in the world, Africanized Honey Bees, die when they sting--but only when they sting fleshy creatures like humans.

This is because honey bees have barbed modified oviposter stingers, that do just fine when defending their nests against other insects, but which get stuck in fleshy human skin, causing the bee to literally disembowel themselves when they sting and try to fly away.

On the other hand, bumblebees and carpenter bees have smooth straight stingers, which means they won't get caught and die if they have to sting. Those bees are not aggressive or territorial though and stingings are rare.

Of course, BioMass could make whatever kind of bees they wanted. (hide spoiler)]