Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

Shadows of Self - Brandon Sanderson

September 22, 2022.
Requested by Narilka.

Tor.com is giving away Shadows of Self as a free ebook for their book club until Aug 26. International folks can download it too - just select US as your region.

Can't wait:) Will be here when everyone else starts:)))

Narilka wrote: "Tor.com is giving away Shadows of Self as a free ebook for their book club until Aug 26. International folks can download it too - just select US as your region."

Bands of Mourning is this month's free ebook as well, until Sep 16

Looks like I'll be starting this one tomorrow :D

I started this one a couple days ago! Thoughts on prologue re Wax then and now (view spoiler)[ You can definitely see how much he's changed since then! He was much more playful/light hearted.. Makes sense though, it was before he lost Lessie and also before growing up a bit in the Roughs... He's always been pretty bold (reckless even)..

Wayne was such a baby here too! (THough not much has changed (hide spoiler)]

Through chapter 2? (view spoiler)[ That book he's reading is probably by Spook right? More hints that hemalurgy will become important to the story at some point...

We also have a shift from always being called Waxillium to being called Wax (by the narration anyway).. Wonder what brought this on. (hide spoiler)]

Prologue (view spoiler)[I did not recognize Wayne at all LOL I had to reread that part when he calls out his name to realize it was the kid holding Wax's horse. I knew Wayne was younger but I didn't realize how young when they met. (hide spoiler)]

Ch 1 & 2 (view spoiler)[I agree. I think it's a book/journal written by Spook.

I like how we're straight back to the action. I also love how Steris is planning for a wedding disruption and trying to minimize it by inviting a specific disruption LOL She's so darn practical!

FWIW, I always shorten Waxillium to Wax in my head as I read so it never bothered me. (hide spoiler)]

Some day maybe Sanderson will collect the accumulated Wisdom of Wayne into one book. I love this one:

"Proper loafing requires company. One man lying about is being idle; two men lying about is a lunch break."

:D

Ch 4 (view spoiler)[Woah. Marasi was very brave. And probably need counseling now. (hide spoiler)]

Doing my re-read of Shadows of Self now... 60-70%, and I just realized what Sanderson dropped into the story, on like my 4th read-through...

I've probably noticed this before, but forgotten or dismissed it:

(view spoiler)[

"Harmony's not my god. I'm a Survivorist."

"Oh, yeah," MeLaan said, "because that makes sense. Worship the guy who died, rather than the one who saved the world."

"The Survivor transcended death," Marasi said, looking back, hand on the door, but not entering. "He survived even being killed, adopting the mantle of the Ascendant during the time between Preservation's death and Vin's Ascension."

Rust... was she arguing theology with a demigod?

MeLaan, however, just cocked her head. "What, really?"
(hide spoiler)]

Finished my re-read... ending is just as (view spoiler)[heartbreaking (hide spoiler)] as ever...

2nd thing I noticed on this re-read, was I sat through the entire reading of the Ars Arcanum at the end, and Khrissalla talked about how melding 2 magics is alchemical in nature, similar to how the paired magics works on Roshar... and how each Misting + Ferring combo provides an extra effect that needs further study... this explains why Wax is able to exclude some metal objects from his push bubble...

Ch 6 (view spoiler)[I think this is the first time I've noticed that Terris names have a Welsh feel to them.

Things are getting interesting. It's nice to see Hemalurgy being worked back in.

Marasi sure knows where to find trouble lol Nice save of the governor. (hide spoiler)]

Ch 7 & 8 (view spoiler)[Hoid sighting! That one was obvious lol

Interesting how it's a Kandra gone bad. And Wax's conversations with God. While that does spoil the mystery a bit, not sure if Wax would've figured it out otherwise.

OMG Steris had planned out everything LOL Seems she enjoyed her ride through the mists. I think she's going to be a great pair with Wax. (hide spoiler)]

Ch 9 (view spoiler)[A highly entertaining cocktail party lol OMG Wayne the mathematician! And Steris is really impressing me.

Then creepy! The Kandra has learned telepathy. Oy. Wax should take that earring out. (hide spoiler)]

Ch 11 (view spoiler)[Kandra everywhere! hah

Ok, that fight with the grappling hook reminded me of something out of a Jackie Chan movie. I know I've seen similar before. Definitely a good addition to Wax's arsenal.

Wayne asking after women's shoes to fill out his disguise box had me laughing. (hide spoiler)]

I will be here tomorrow for sure!

Ch 13. Huh. (view spoiler)[I think this is the first time I've noticed anyone reflecting on the cosmere and it was such a short, throw away sentence. Does this happen more in Stormlight? I don't remember it's mention in Era 1 or Warbreaker. (hide spoiler)]

Up to Ch. 11 and I love all the Wayne wisdoms! Also, I noticed that here was the scene with Wax and his uncle, which obviously had gotten stuck in my brain, because every time I think about mortgages and any bank loans, I have the scene with the poor man being figuratively "enslaved" by his debt to the bank and(view spoiler)[ killing himself 8 years later, while his kids take on the debt... I hate that scene and how real it feels...

Marasi is a bit of a brat, but I am glad she is over her crush on Wax. However, I hate how Wayne treated her sister, Steris, after the party with the Governor. I felt hurt for her and it was the first time I got really angry with him! She can't help being who she is and she is the most honest and genuine of all of them, and he was straight up mean to her! Shame on him!

I do feel for him and the situation with the family, whose father he killed as a teenager and I am impressed that he keeps on with his self imposed penance, but I also think there is some self-indulgence that comes with it. What I mean is, he has chosen this and knows what to expect every time, as hard as it is, but he gets the self-flagellation he feels he deserves and lets himself be the rest of the time pretty free of guilt... Maybe I am reading too much into it, and he is a very likable character otherwise, but his judgement of Steris makes me so angry with him!!!

I just got to the priest who was sacrificed and I starting to see all the tie ins with the Era 1 mythology. It was nice to know that Harmony is around and involved, as well as there are Kandra around. Shame that one of them has been corrupted. Their abilities still scare the heck out of me and I also count on them to play by their self-imposed rules, or my paranoia hits sky-high... (hide spoiler)]

Fun read so far:)

Choko wrote: "Up to Ch. 11 and I love all the Wayne wisdoms! Also, I noticed that here was the scene with Wax and his uncle, which obviously had gotten stuck in my brain, because every time I think about mortgag..."

It's very real, sadly... I've seen a fair amount of stories in the news recently... (view spoiler)[about old people getting divorced so medical debt won't transfer on death... the world we live in (in America, anyway) (hide spoiler)]

Choko wrote: "Up to Ch. 11 and I love all the Wayne wisdoms! Also, I noticed that here was the scene with Wax and his uncle, which obviously had gotten stuck in my brain, because every time I think about mortgag..."

There several parts of this book that feel real, sadly. Like it could be a commentary about today's society.

I totally agree with you, guys... And the worst part is that it is not just us in the States... It feels the whole world is that way... I love that Sanderson has his finger on the pulse of humanity and makes the reader take note without being preachy...

Yep, Iain is right! That ending had me tearing up! I can see how a person can start doubting their faith if this happened to them... I just finished and I am a bit emotional! Still, I want to know about that new G-d and those new metals...

Ut oh. Sounds like I"m in for a tragedy :(

Ch 20 (view spoiler)[So nice to see TenSoon again. This book really links back to Era 1 a lot more than Alloy of Law did. I also noticed that events seem eerily reminiscent of Era 1 when Luthadel was having riots before the siege.

That last scene with Wayne though has made me a little sick. About 70 pages to go so not a lot of time to wrap things up or the pace needs to greatly increase. (hide spoiler)]

Finally made some more progress!

Choko, so there with you re Steris! (view spoiler)[more and more lately the characters i feel protective about are neurodivergent, and to be mean to someone based on who they are just gets my blood boiling!

Also yeah i kinda read Wayne's self-imposed penance as very self-flagelation and that can actually be indulgent.. but i think he does work on himself somewhat in other ways, and was even looking out for the boys in the streets! (hide spoiler)]

Through ch 6 (view spoiler)[ and i definitely feel like there is a kandra around what with Bloody Tan that Wax sees and there was mention of the Terris woman seeing her dead brother? Dont like that... and a Kandra not working with Harmony (at least Id hope Harmony wouldnt taunt Wax like that) is rather terrifying.. (hide spoiler)]

The concept of a Kandra without rules and doing whatever it wants - absolutely terrifying!

Heh immediately in Chapter 7 i see I was right (view spoiler)[about the Kandra... its actually so weird God can just straight up talk to his people.. makes me wonder how there are such divisions in the religions... but i guess Harmony foesnt talk to everyone like that. And i suppose people could not even see him as a god even proven his existence.

He mentioned other people who were almost destroyed with higher levels of technology.. is this on the same planet? The Final Empire was really only at one of the poles right? Do we know if Elendel is still at a pole or did Harmony move it? Did he purposefully put some people elsewhere, or had they always been there?

Also glad Wax is treating Marasi better, that was getting very frustrating! (hide spoiler)]

Just popping in to say I still plan on reading these Era 2 books, but knowing my reading style, I may end up binging them together closer to the Lost Metal release date. Looking forward to opening up your spoilers in a few weeks!

I finished. That wasn't what I was expecting. (view spoiler)[The Lessie twist a the end was pretty messed up. I feel so bad for Wax.

I also have no idea what the theme for this series is. Does the third book tie it together? This could almost have been stand alone though you did need to read Era 1. (hide spoiler)]

Narilka wrote: "I finished. That wasn't what I was expecting. The Lessie twist a the end was pretty messed up. I feel so bad for Wax.

I also have no idea what the theme for this series is. Does the third book ti..."

I'd say (view spoiler)[it's Wax questioning Faith, for one thing...

But it's also his uncle's group and the corrupting influence of Trell, the off-world god fiddling with events on the Mistborn planet...

And Sazed finding his footing as a god, since he now knows that he made life too easy for Elendel, and it's stunted technological advancement...

The third book plays with that a bit, with the introduction of (view spoiler)[the south pole people (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

I agree with Iain. Actually, I kind of feel most of Sanderson's works deal with questioning faith and understanding what human's relationship with their G-ds is...

Hmm (view spoiler)[Sazed has had 400ish years to practice. Guess it takes longer to figure out the god thing ;)

I can see it being about Wax's crisis of faith. Trell was only mentioned once, very briefly. I don't remember the reference at all from Era 1 though I imagine it was one of Sazed many collected religions. Is this something that ties back to Stormlight?

Since it looks like Stormlight 5 will be ready next year, there's a high probability I'll be reading that in 2023. Man that is going to kill my reading speed lol (hide spoiler)]

Narilka wrote: "Hmm Sazed has had 400ish years to practice. Guess it takes longer to figure out the god thing ;)..."

(view spoiler)[Trellism/Trellagism is one of the religions Sazed mentioned in Era 1, yes... and actually, I think it ties to the Shard on the White Sands comic world... (hide spoiler)]

And Sanderson is being mysterious, lol... I just visited the Coppermind disambiguation page, and there's a Sanderson quote from the Dark Talent signing (one of the Alcatraz books, I think)...

(view spoiler)["Trell has been many things, over the eons... (hide spoiler)]

Starting today!

Anyone notice the Allomantic symbols in the chapter heads? They start doubling up (with first one staying the same) at 17. This suggests a base 16 math system, which is pretty interesting! Especially since they didn't know there were 16 metals until recently...

@Narilka, re: Theme--I think the first book Alloy of Law is actually a standalone, and then the next three Sanderson treated like a trilogy, even though Alloy of Law sets up the trilogy... thematically speaking, it might be more clear in the next book.

Ugh. I'm not as interested in comics so wasn't planning to read White Sands. Maybe I can go find a summary.

Re Allomantic symbols: I saw this as hints about who the chapter focus was about since they reference back to the symbols for the powers our group of heroes and villains have. After the first couple chapters though I stopped looking in the back to see which was referenced haha Two symbols for twinborns... or two people ;) Those allomantic symbols were in the chapter heads of Era 1 also FWIW.

Nirkatze wrote: "Starting today!

Anyone notice the Allomantic symbols in the chapter heads? They start doubling up (with first one staying the same) at 17. This suggests a base 16 math system, which is pretty inte..."

as in the elemental symbols are also numbers? That'd be interesting... I need to take a look at that. I thought the symbols were there for the metalborns of the chapters

Narilka wrote: "Ugh. I'm not as interested in comics so wasn't planning to read White Sands. Maybe I can go find a summary."

The comics are super short... does a disservice, I think... I'm also not a big comic fan...

There's White Sands Prime floating around, somewhere... pretty much the text Sanderson completed of the MC's magic trials, before pausing and later deciding to do a comic, instead...

I also haven't read White Sands for the same reason. I've also not read the prose version as it has not been edited/polished. I believe eventually, though not anytime soon, Sanderson will officially publish a prose version. It's awkward to have 95% rather than 100% of the cosmere available in prose.

I'll have to look for White Sands Prime then. Thanks for the tip Iain.

Through 11 or 12 (view spoiler)[ The telepathy thing threw me for a loop... I'm wondering how that works.. The gods could do it to an extent but this is the first "mortal" we've seen do it. Does the kandra hold some of Ruin's power? (hide spoiler)]

Emily, that was my original thought, but by the end I think it looks like it is a whole different influence...

Emily wrote: "as in the elemental symbols are also numbers? That'd be interesting... I need to take a look at that. I thought the symbols were there for the metalborns of the chapters..."

I think they may be numbers--I noticed that the symbols repeat after they start doubling up, and that the first symbol stays the same, so like it goes Iron, Steel, Tin, Pewter, and so on, and then Iron, Steel, Tin, Pewter again in the double digits, with the 16th metal, (view spoiler)[Nicrosil (hide spoiler)] (just in tags because I don't think the name has popped up yet) standing like the 10 digit from 16 onwards. It's the exact same progression in Alloy of Law too. I did audio for my Era 1 reread and my books are in boxes, so I can't confirm for Era 1, but I would be curious to check.

oh wow, I didn't notice that at all. I read the physical books the first time, but I really don't pay attention to those tidbits haha

Choko wrote: "Emily, that was my original thought, but by the end I think it looks like it is a whole different influence..."

Ohh! excited to find out (again lol)

Narilka wrote: "Prologue [spoilers removed]

Ch 1 & 2 I agree...."

@Tonari no Emily too--nice catch on Wax's name, totally did not notice that.

Prologue ages--(view spoiler)[So that was 17 years ago, and I think Wax is in his early 40s in Alloy of Law? So he would have been in mid-late 20s at that time, and Wayne in his early teens. So about 10-15 years apart--so now Wayne is around 30, and... wasn't Marasi like 18 or 20? And Steris 5 years older.

Really funny how Wax was such a horrible shot. The lavendar cravat/pink garter bit made me laugh too. Lessie was a fun character... (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 2 re: Book (view spoiler)[Triple ditto on Spook--and it's making me think of Secret History too, with the book saying "I know Saze doesn't approve of what I've done" is making me think that (view spoiler)[it was something Kelsier told him to do, some step between Kelsier then and Kelsier in the Ghostbloods (hide spoiler)] ... why a little book though? Is the book a common publication, or something Wax found or took off his uncle? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2 action--(view spoiler)[I kept thinking of the buildup leading to Avengers: Wrath of Ultron and Civil War. Who is paying for all the damage that Wax does as he bounds around, shoving cars off course? Or breaking that window? Will he be slapped with a fine, or will the city just cover it?

And seeing Lessie's killer at the end--dun dun dun! Unfortunately, one of the only things I remember from this series is a big spoilery thing here, so I don't get the fun of guessing. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze, the question of who gets to cover all the damage any heroes in books and movies do, is always what I ask myself when I read or watch them. What about the people who might get hurt or killed during the characters' heroics, even more than all the major property damage... ? It really gets my brain stuck.

Choko wrote: "Nirkatze, the question of who gets to cover all the damage any heroes in books and movies do, is always what I ask myself when I read or watch them. What about the people who might get hurt or kill..."

Exactly! Especially when Wax (view spoiler)[is going after Marks because of the same thing--collateral damage. He pulled the trigger and his bullet didn't hit what he aimed for, and instead hurt a child. I don't see Wax checking as carefully where he puts his bullets all the time--especially in the last book he was just shooting stuff all over the place! (hide spoiler)] Ah well, doesn't keep me from enjoying the books still. I'd like to see it brought up at some point. Maybe it will! I'm still early yet.

@Narilka, Ryan, Iain--re: comics

I've read White Sands Prime--I think it was part of a digital package for one of the kickstarters or something? And I also have the comics. And the new Dark One comic. They are fun, but I too would prefer print. I'm not good at slowing down like comics want you too--I just want to read the text and ignore the pictures....

Also, Khris, who writes the Appendices, is a major character in White Sands...