SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

My first book John & Andy – Book 1 – An Ancient Arrival is nearly ready to be self-published.

I am struggling to decide what category it should be placed in. The main character is a 10-year-old boy John, who wakes up one day to find he now has a companion, Andy, sharing his brain.

The internal conversations between John and his brain-mate are the main driving force of the story. Andy has been around a long time, being sequentially hosted by thousands of people, and is most likely an AI developed by an alien race - though this is never stated. Andy brings all those experiences with him.

Because of this alien origin, I am leaning towards sci-fi.

There is another element to the story - John has the power to sense other people's emotions and sometimes thoughts - not reliably but enough to be significant - which I think of as a fantasy element.

Finally, John's father is caught up in a mysterious group which has the hallmarks of a black magic cult. This is not dealt with or referred to much in Book1, but it is there.

Just to be clear, this is not targeted at a YA readership - it does deal with YA issues, but there is quite a lot of swearing and a very minor amount of sex. I suppose a switched-on teenager could read it and enjoy it, but mostly it's meant for adults.

The setting for all this is Reading, England in the year 2010 - and is as realistic as I can make it.

Any suggestions how I should classify this first book in a long series, very welcome.

A sci-fi/fantasy adventure saga ?

It sounds like it could go either way but pulls more toward fantasy. Plus then you don’t have to worry about about the HARD sci-fi scale.

Yes. I agree. I think fantasy adventure with a touch of SciFi sounds damn interesting. Idk if my opinion qualifies since I'm just 16...

Definitely more a Fantasy to my mind.

If the alien origins of Andy isn’t explicit, I think it definitely skews Fantasy. As they say, science we don’t understand seems like magic.

It's interesting that Fantasy is gaining support.

I have spent a couple of days on a Facebook group devoted to producing and critiquing book covers, trying to refine my new cover. The overwhelming view from about 20 comments was sci-fi based on the alien aspect.

The only part that matters to me is not misleading anyone, who goes on to find the book they have bought is not what they expected it to be.

My feeling is that the book is a better fit for Fantasy because there are no hard sci-fi elements in it - a complete absence of ray-guns, flying saucers or little green men, in fact.

Aliens don't necessarily mean scifi. We have aliens in portal fantasies. The difference between aliens and fantastical beasts is the willingness of the author or POV character to grant them personhood. That's how I see it anyway.

Semantics… I appreciate you are trying to set the expectations of your readers to avoid disappointment. I suppose I’m not alone in depending on the books I have read to guide me, and this sounds pretty different. If it were scary, “horror” might be perfect, given the elements you’ve described - very much feeling like it could fall in with “inexplicable mental powers” sorts of stories that had a run in the, I guess, late 70’s. For me Fantasy conjures dragons and magic spells and faerie-esques (elves, goblins, etc). I don’t think I’ve read any “urban fantasy” myself - Reading in 2010 qualifies as urban?

What might lean toward sci-fi is if the alien element becomes more explicit as the series continues, setting expectations not for the first book, but for the series as a whole (you did mention Book1).

Given your goal, I would probably thrash around Goodreads to see how people might have shelved similar books - I’m new to Goodreads, but it seems like the perfect resource…

Ryan wrote: "Aliens don't necessarily mean scifi. We have aliens in portal fantasies. The difference between aliens and fantastical beasts is the willingness of the author or POV character to grant them personh..."

I'd better let Andy answer that for him/her/its self :-)

A conversation near the start of Chapter 2, John 'speaks' first :-

“What happened?” I asked myself.
“I happened, John,” a voice in my head replied. “What? Who? Why?...”
“I am a sort of spirit, I will try to help you.”
“Like a ghost?”
“Not really, I do not think I was ever alive. I only exist in someone’s mind. I do not believe there are real ghosts.”

Daniel wrote: "Semantics… I appreciate you are trying to set the expectations of your readers to avoid disappointment. I suppose I’m not alone in depending on the books I have read to guide me, and this sounds pr..."

Hi Daniel,
Thanks for spending some of your time on this. Chocky is one possible comparator :- https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

The main difference in my story being that Andy isn't receiving any info from whoever set him/her/it going. It remains open that whatever alien race is involved either don't care or have gone extinct - a no contact model - though the AI element implies a computer somewhere has been left switched on I suppose.

A couple of others which resonate :-
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

There's a recent series like this (but the aliens are explicit ) and the author is escaping me. BUT...

I'd think about this not from your point of view but from the reader's/potential reader's. If someone picks up the book and reads it, are they likely to think "Why was this called (SF or Fantasy) for, it's clearly (the other one)?"

Certainly, there are marketing considerations - Fantasy probably gets more readers for example - but a well written synopsis should give someone enough of a feel for the book that they aren't going to make a decision based purely on category.

Rick wrote: "There's a recent series like this (but the aliens are explicit ) and the author is escaping me. BUT...

I'd think about this not from your point of view but from the reader's/potential reader's. I..."

Here's the current version of my Blurb (after more iterations than I care to remember) :-

Geeky kid to world famous idol? — Easy! Just add a manipulative Alien…
10-years-old John loves eating, reading, science. art and nature. Clever but with few friends, John is an ordinary boy who lives a happy life, blissfully innocent.
This changes forever when he wakes up with an alien AI sharing his brain. John, influenced by his new brainmate Andy, reinvents his life, makes new friends and becomes the epitome of cool. But trouble lies ahead. – Andy has no human morality.
When Andy realises John’s Father is caught-up in something horrific, finding out what could be life-threatening. John needs Andy’s help to unmask the evildoers and save his family -- what will Andy want in return?
John & Andy – Book 1 – An Ancient Arrival is an amusing sci-fi/fantasy saga. Mostly light-hearted, but with dark patches. The story begins in October 2010 near Reading, England.  As well as an alien presence it records the ordinary life of boys, girls, parents, teachers and many observations on food.

"This changes forever when he wakes up with an alien AI sharing his brain"

That's SF. Also, I'd consider editing the synopsis. As the author you might be too close to the book. Remember you're pitching this to someone who knows nothing about the book. You aren't there to describe the book but to sell them on picking it up.

If you can find a friend with some marketing or sales background and have them take a swing at it. If not, then pretend you're in an interview or a meeting and you're trying to convince a bookseller to carry your book. They ask "why would someone browsing the SFF section want to read this book?"

The book 1 version is both too detailed ("October 2010") and is too descriptive of WHAT the book is ("As well as an alien presence it records the ordinary life of boys, girls, parents, teachers and many observations on food") without selling a reader on why they should spend money and time on it.

The synopsis is a sales pitch. Not a book report on what the book is about. It's a different kind of writing.

It's also a little confusing. The bit above "John and Andy - Book 1" is about... book 1? The whole series?

Consider something like this:

"John is a typical 10 year old...until the day when he wakes up and hears a voice in his head. The new voice calls itself "Andy" and helps John become more confident, more outgoing and a better version of himself - but at what price? What is "Andy" and what does it really want?"

Oh. Here's the book I was trying to remember earlier about an alien who ends up in someone's head... The Lives of Tao by Wesley Chu

you could do like a lot of self-published authors do on Amazon and list it in both categories. That way you'd reach potential customers who prefer one and not the other genre. Today I ran across a copy of the Great Gatsby in the listing of Fantasy books on sale on Amazon.

Rick wrote: "Oh. Here's the book I was trying to remember earlier about an alien who ends up in someone's head... The Lives of Tao by Wesley Chu"

Hi Rick,
I had a good look at The Lives of Tao's Amazon page. Very interesting, I may well read it for fun.

That story is definitely sci-fi because the aliens' war is a major part of the plot.

In my story, Andy's origin is unknown - in fact, there is no simple way to prove that John is not hearing an imaginary voice.

I suppose I can list my book as both fantasy and sci-fi as was suggested above. If I can put enough of the flavour of the book into my blurb, then buyers will be able to judge for themselves. Writing a decent blurb is proving to be a real challenge.

Cheers - Nick

It could be described as Fantasy with sci-fi elements. Or Sci-fi with fantasy elements. Or Science fantasy. And there is this book: Writing Book Blurbs and Synopses: How to sell your manuscript to publishers and your indie book to readers

Hi Leticia,
Very kind of you - I think I have confused myself by reading too much already on how to write a blurb.

I'm going to go back to first principles and try to write it as a 150 word newspaper report, ie a "Phew what a scorcher!" approach.

We'll see - if I try all the wrong methods first, I may find the right one :-)

Nick

Nick wrote: "In my story, Andy's origin is unknown - in fact, there is no simple way to prove that John is not hearing an imaginary voice.
..."

Which is why my quick rewrite of the blurb doesnt mention the alien AI aspect. But If you want to leave it open, then I don't get the entire long paragraph you posted that starts with "Geeky kid to world famous idol?" which explicitly talks about that aspect.

I'm going to go back to first principles and try to write it as a 150 word newspaper report, ie a "Phew what a scorcher!" approach.


Again... you're *not* writing a report. You're writing a sales pitch. Something to capture the interest of the reader looking at your product page. Think "why" not "what". That is, the prospective reader is implicitly wondering 'why should I read this book? Why should I spend hours of my life and some amount of money on it?' so you want to entice them into thinking "this sounds interesting. I want to dive into this story."

Parasyte, Volume 1

There are a number of things mentioned but then your turn around and basically subtract/negate those things - "and is most likely an AI developed by an alien race - though this is never stated. Andy brings all those experiences with him." And again, "Finally, John's father is caught up in a mysterious group which has the hallmarks of a black magic cult. This is not dealt with or referred to much in Book1, but it is there." So it clutters up the description. Stick to the stuff that is most important to determine your categories.

Got to restart somewhere - I'll try for an advert style :-)

Andres wrote: "Parasyte, Volume 1"

They do not seem friendly. Andy would be dead against having them round for tea. :-)

Considering your blurb, the opening conversation and the title, I would agree with your fb group, SF, soft SF. It sounds like a fun book. I think you can post the cover here for feedback (unless mods say to the contrary), since it sounds like the fb group may be at least in part basing their opinions on it as well.

M.L. wrote: "Considering your blurb, the opening conversation and the title, I would agree with your fb group, SF, soft SF. It sounds like a fun book. I think you can post the cover here for feedback (unless mo..."

Hi M.L.
Thanks for the encouraging feedback. I'd be delighted to post the cover on here, but I have no idea how to do it in a thread.
Presumably a link to a webpage it is on ?

Once I finally get my author site up and running (slow progress - but better than none) I could link to that. Maybe I could set something up quickly on draft-to-digital in the meantime. I've decided to go with them first.

Nick

Nick wrote: "M.L. wrote: "Considering your blurb, the opening conversation and the title, I would agree with your fb group, SF, soft SF. It sounds like a fun book. I think you can post the cover here for feedba..."


If the image is on the webpage, you can right click, hit "inspect", then control "c", and paste what you copied into a thread here.

Thanks.
I obviously uploaded the image to the Facebook site group for critiquing, but I wasn't sure about the etiquette of linking to that from here.
About time, I updated a few things on D2D - I guess that would be a sensible place for a cover image :-)

I don't know why you couldn't post a fb link here.

Also, using the (some html is ok) button, copy the "img" info and insert your own https info.
Or post the jpg to your user or author profile, copy the link and post here. Include > after jpg.

Using my profile page is a great suggestion - thanks.

Just coming back to this for one final point. Your initial summary and blurb above talk explicitly about an alien AI. If the story doesn't mention that and, as you said later, this could be all John imagining things then you definitely do not want to mention it in the synopsis. Few things are more annoying to me as a reader than to see something like that, think I'm going to get a story about some alien AI merging with a kid and the effects of that... and then never seeing that happen.

More briefly, align your synopsis with the novel. If you promise me 'alien AI' in the former and the latter doesn't deliver that, I feel let down.

Rick wrote: "Just coming back to this for one final point. Your initial summary and blurb above talk explicitly about an alien AI. If the story doesn't mention that and, as you said later, this could be all Joh..."

Hi Rick,
Well, that is a tricky one. Direct proof that Andy is an alien AI is not available to either John or Andy. However, they both conclude that it is the only reasonable explanation of Andy's powers.
He/she/it always knows the precise time. Also, Andy can instantaneously access any previous experiences of thousands of previous hosts - a perfect memory if you will. John says this must represent a humungous storage and retrieval capability, far beyond any human one. Andy suggests that time travel might be involved, but John says that only happens in stories.

P.S If you would like me to add you to my list for a free copy when I publish the e-book PM me with your email address please.

All the best - Nick

I would market this as a fun Middle-Grade SF (since the protagonist is 10 and it sounds humorous/upbeat). The original blurb sounded fine to me, except *maybe* spoiling a bit too much of the plot. Maybe include something like "perfect for fans of Animorphs and [other well-known books with similar vibes]".

Eva wrote: "I would market this as a fun Middle-Grade SF (since the protagonist is 10 and it sounds humorous/upbeat). The original blurb sounded fine to me, except *maybe* spoiling a bit too much of the plot. ..."

Hi Eva,
thanks for that - I think my book is fun, but of course people's tastes differ.

There is some swearing, mostly by the youngsters themselves, and a few passages where boyfriend/girlfriend kissing and cuddling happen. I think of that as all very normal, but I know there are parents and teachers who regard bad language or sex as no go zones for YA books.

Another factor which makes me hesitate to frame the book as one many kids would enjoy is that John and Andy's vocabularies could send a lot of adults off to the dictionary - they get on well because they each have a touch of the sesquipedalian in their natures. :-)

Cheers

Nick

Of course your opinion matters! And I agree with you. My first book is a mix of SciFi and Fantasy (I'm not sure if its ok to mention the name here?)

Sounds like SF/Fantasy crossover to me but it largely depends on what Andy wants to achieve in the story.

Jeff wrote: "Of course your opinion matters! And I agree with you. My first book is a mix of SciFi and Fantasy (I'm not sure if its ok to mention the name here?)"
OK by me - Mention away, I don't think writing books is a zero-sum game.

Adrian wrote: "Sounds like SF/Fantasy crossover to me but it largely depends on what Andy wants to achieve in the story."

Andy is broadly in favour of human life on Earth continuing. He/she/it takes a long view, and the climate crisis is worrying given that perspective.

I've been battling the blurb, new version :-

Nobody expects to wake up to find an alien sharing their brain, but that is exactly what happened to John. Andy is an AI who can access the memories of long-dead hosts stretching back hundreds of thousands of years.

With Andy as his guide, John, a 10-year-old geek, morphs into Mr Popularity. Andy is sure his/her/its brain-mate needs to grow up fast and tough to have any chance of dealing with the evildoers who have entangled his father in their horrific web. But Andy has no moral compass. Is the loss of his blissful innocence too great a price for John to pay to protect his family?

Set near Reading, England, in October 2010, An Ancient Arrival – John & Andy – Book 1 is the beginning of a sometimes dark, sometimes amusing fantasy saga, reminiscent of Three Men in a Boat – without the men, the boat, or the dog. It does include boys, girls, parents, teachers, and fascinating insights into food.

That's pretty good. Comments:

1) "Andy is an AI ..." I think this sets expectations that, from your earlier replies, the text might not meet. Only you know, of course, but if there's much musing about Andy's nature in the text, this sort of undercuts it. If you want to keep that sense of uncertainty, just drop the reference, i.e. "Andy seems to be able to access the memories of long-dead hosts stretching back hundreds of thousands of years."

2) "Set near Reading, England, in October 2010... " Is there any reason to be this specific? Is October 2010 important to the story? I assume the story makes it clear that the events are in England and maybe even Reading, but the specificity strikes me as odd. Minor point, though.

3) This is perhaps just me, but three part titles always come off as odd to me. I mean this: "An Ancient Arrival – John & Andy – Book 1." The person reading this knows the book title. Most GR entries show things as the title, then a series name with a number, so something like this:

"An Ancient Arrival"
John & Andy 1

Rick wrote: "That's pretty good. Comments:

1) "Andy is an AI ..." I think this sets expectations that, from your earlier replies, the text might not meet. Only you know, of course, but if there's much musing ..."

Thanks for that, Rick.

As I'm sure you have guessed, I am treading a fine line between giving too much away about Andy, while putting out some info which will engage people interested in Alien AI's and hope it interests them enough to buy my book. On the other hand, I don't want anyone to buy it and then be disappointed because the aliens never invade or whatever. I'm going to have a think about what, if anything, I can do about that. Any potential buyer will see a fair chunk of the book if they use Amazon's "look inside" option, so that comes into the equation.

There is no secret about what Andy knows in the book - he/she/it has a perfectly clear memory of all past hosts and that is stated - what is never made clear is how Andy started and whether anything is still controlling him/her/it, or if the operation is purely on autopilot. The implication is Andy has no idea and John certainly does not. In a way, although one can speculate, it does not impact knowing this about Andy before one reads the story because it is not part of the plot.

The location and time is a personal thing. I hate it when writers go all mysterious about where and when their book is set. I prefer to know before I start a novel. Unless the characters in the book are confused about when and where they are living I'd like to know what they know up-front.

The title - I hadn't given any thought to framing it as "An Ancient Arrival" John & Andy 1 - no objection in principle - I'll have a dig round on Amazon and see what the modern usage is.

All the best - Nick

Yeah, I think the AI issue is one that you have to judge since you know the story. My concern would be talking about it in the description and then never really dealing with it in the story. As a reader, I kind of like the idea that Andy's nature is ambiguous. It lets you go different directions within the series without being hemmed in. But... your book, not mine.

Rick wrote: "Yeah, I think the AI issue is one that you have to judge since you know the story. My concern would be talking about it in the description and then never really dealing with it in the story. As a r..."

It is perfectly possible to imagine all sorts of explanations for anything which is not scientifically verified, of course.

As Andy is a voice in a boy's head, possibilities would include possession, mental illness and so on - it soon becomes clear in the story that Andy's account of himself is consistent but limited - Occam's razor says Alien AI on the evidence presented.
As an author I have eschewed the omniscient point of view option and when writing I know no more or less than John knows i.e. 1st pov only.

The alien AI element is important to the story but only because Andy possesses stores of learned knowledge and experience which could be gained in no other way and uses these to influence John - in some ways a magic computer program would work as well but also raise just as many questions about its origin.

Nick wrote: "Jeff wrote: "Of course your opinion matters! And I agree with you. My first book is a mix of SciFi and Fantasy (I'm not sure if its ok to mention the name here?)"
OK by me - Mention away, I don't t..."

okay the title is Enimnori:Arrival

Jeff wrote: "Nick wrote: "Jeff wrote: "Of course your opinion matters! And I agree with you. My first book is a mix of SciFi and Fantasy (I'm not sure if its ok to mention the name here?)"
OK by me - Mention aw..."
Hi Jeff,
I googled your book, which turned up tons of hits. I hope it goes well for you.

The marketing end of self-publishing is not something I'm enjoying working my way through, but I expect I'll get there.
But I expect I'll get there

Nick

Hi Jeff,
I googled your book title and got plenty of hits, so it should be easy for people to find it. I hope it goes well for you.
I'm hacking my book 2 into some sort of shape that I can have someone look at it for me, and also dithering around polishing parts of Book 1 I'm not happy with.

Cheers - Nick

Nick wrote: "Hi Jeff,
I googled your book title and got plenty of hits, so it should be easy for people to find it. I hope it goes well for you.
I'm hacking my book 2 into some sort of shape that I can have som..."

Hey, thanks! Yeah it never ends! Every time I read mine, I see something and think "gee...XXXX would sound better". Also (I'm now working on book 3) there are things I think. "gee, I could have put in hints about this starting in book 1).

Anu wrote: "Yes. I agree. I think fantasy adventure with a touch of SciFi sounds damn interesting. Idk if my opinion qualifies since I'm just 16..."

I think your opinion counts!

Nick wrote: "My first book John & Andy – Book 1 – An Ancient Arrival is nearly ready to be self-published.

I am struggling to decide what category it should be placed in. The main character is a 10-year-old bo..."

I have the same problem with the book that I just finished and released. There are elements of alien contact, but it's not the main thrust of the plot. On the other hand, setting and character, whether historical or personality aspects of character, can sometimes lead someone's perception of a story's genre. That's why books that are considered genre-benders are such a mystery to me. How do they market them?

My book series is set against a background of an alien invasion, but in actuality, each book is about relationships, personal growth, teenagers coming of age, etc.. I put the series in YA Sci-fi but I think it could almost be a different genre. It is an ongoing debate in my head. And I was never good at debating in high school.