It Ends with Us discussion

Personally, I don't believe Ryle is a bad characters although I know many people don't agree with me. Ryle did some horrible things, made awful mistakes and definitely does not deserve to be with someone as amazing as Lily, but I don't think he is a "bad" person. One reason is that he didn't even remember hurting lily and the main reason he did what he did is because of his childhood trauma. He has a mental illness, he isn't a terrible person. Also, he was prepared to leave Lily and admitted she deserved someone better all so she could be happy, even though this brought him pain. Anyways, I'd like to hear some of your opinions on Ryle.

“There is no such thing as bad people. We’re all just people who sometimes do bad things.”
― Colleen Hoover, It Ends with Us

But, I don't in third or fourth chances. I don't he is a bad person, but I think he is a bad person for Lily. I think he liked or love the idea of her, but not who she really was.

I just think he's a toxic person and I think that's what matters? Like idk if he forgot or he didn't want to know. And I bet that if he stayed in Lily's life longer, the abuse would get worse. In my opinion he's a manipulating narcissist. I've seen this situation during my childhood (only someone didn't end it almost immediately in my childhood, unlike Lily) and it triggered me af and I only saw red flags. Please, when you see red flags, just go away!! Save yourself.

On one hand, I understand what Colleen was trying to say with the whole 'nobody is either 100% bad or good', but I have a hard time believing that Ryle is one of those. Ryle's behavior from the very beginning was very worrying and me, as a reader, knew from the first moment that there was something wrong with this man. His insistent chasing and his possessive/weird behavior-- like inviting himself to dinner with her mother-- was huge red flags for me.
I think Lily should've have even let her daughter near him, after eh did what he did. Then, there she was eating breakfast and giggling around with him. Did she forget that he almost R4P3D her????

Ugh the more I think about it the more I hate this goddamn book.

I think Ryle is a bad person. It doesn't matter if he has a mental illness or is perfectly sane, you are still responsible for your actions. If he knew he had flashes of anger then why didn't he seek help? If he knew that he would hurt Lily why didn't he try to do something about it? He is a grown man, he can't hide behind the excuse of his dead brother. He shouldn't have to hide his trauma, but he shouldn't take it out on his wife either. When he hurt her that first time, why didn't he ever stop to think about what he could do to help? He didn't. And besides that, this grown man that people loved begged for sex on 2 maybe 3 different occasions after she said No. He only wanted her for the sex, cause remember he doesn't do dates, and all of a sudden they're married? No, I don't believe he is a good person.

Personally, I hate Ryle with all my heart. So I do think he is a bad person. No one in there right mind would every hurt the person they love on purpose. He had many chance but he kept doing the wrong thing time and again. He was a douche bag. He did all in his power to show Lily how much of a man he is. Lily might have forgave him but I haven't and I can't. He deserves to go to jail. Get what he deserves.

if we simply conclude things about what he did to lily, then yes he is a bad person. but we all know there's a reason behind that, he has trauma, and he still not get over it yet. well whatever the reason is, dont let people make you less worth fellas

sam wrote: "On one hand, I understand what Colleen was trying to say with the whole 'nobody is either 100% bad or good', but I have a hard time believing that Ryle is one of those. Ryle's behavior from the ver..."

are you sure you read the book???

I think "bad" is too broad of a word and cannot be used to describe Ryle. He's a complex character, heavily influenced by his childhood trauma. However, I do think that he was selfish and didn't recognize that he needed to step away sooner, especially considering what Lily went through that made his actions affect her more.

ines_in_wonderland wrote: "“There is no such thing as bad people. We’re all just people who sometimes do bad things.”
― Colleen Hoover, It Ends with Us

But, I don't in third or fourth chances. I don't he is a bad person, b..."

yes I agree, but I believe he should have sought therapy and maybe it would have worked out, he has the potential to be better but
not unless he proves it in the long term lily deserves better

Jiji wrote: "sam wrote: "On one hand, I understand what Colleen was trying to say with the whole 'nobody is either 100% bad or good', but I have a hard time believing that Ryle is one of those. Ryle's behavior ..."

People can disagree on things, it's okay. We all have different opinions.

I am not going to defend his actions bt he isn’t a bad person nd he really loved Lily its just that his trauma kept kicking in...he had issues

"good people do bad things" I believe that ryle was a good person and loved lily but that doesn't excuse the fact that he did abuse her and was sorta selfish towards her. ryle needs therapy asap and I hope he gets the help he needs.

I think it's a complex answer. I thought about it a LOT and I personally don't know how my life and triggers will be if I lived what he had. I AM never going to justify woman violence, he really wanted to be "saved" from his own demons and thought Lily could save him (worst mistake ever) also, he needs professional help ( i know he's fictional but still).
I think he actually loved her but he has a really distorted view of what love is.

I truly think Ryle is a good person.
Do I think what he did was right? NO. Of course not. But like Colleen said; an action doesn't have to be forgiven, in order to learn from it.
He was traumatized, broken, and hurting. He needed help, instead of taking it out on the one person he thought would never leave him. When you are so hurt and finally let down your guard to someone, natural instinct is to inflict your pain on them as he thought she would stay. he just needed help.

Tahlia wrote: "I truly think Ryle is a good person.
Do I think what he did was right? NO. Of course not. But like Colleen said; an action doesn't have to be forgiven, in order to learn from it.
He was traumatize..."

I completely agree!

Personally, I do not believe Ryle is a horrible person. People want to pick a person to despise and a couple to adore. People today advocate mental health, but the moment they see proof of it in books, they begin to despise the character. He genuinely cared about Lily, as evidenced by the fact that he let her go since it was in her best interests. Ryle has a lot of trauma, and if Lily truly loved him, she would have assisted him in getting the care he requires. This wasn't a man who wanted to abuse his wife for the fun of it, but a man who couldn't recall doing so because of the emotional stress he was under.

In my opinion, I think Ryle is not a bad person, but he was not the perfect fit for Lily. With Lily's trauma, Ryle added more to it and decreased her trust for anyone once again. I think he needed help, but he stopped doing that for himself. I think it was horrible how he did that to Lily, even though it wasn't really intentional. If he maybe got the help he needed, he could've done better. But to be honest I'd still be rooting for Atlas and Lily too even if I were rooting for Lily and Ryle at the same time. I also think the more I look into the depth of Lily and Ryle vs Lily and Atlas, Atlas always loved Lily for herself and her personality, whereas I think Ryle just liked the idea of her being with him. Maybe he did like her personality but it definitely did not compare to Atlas. Atlas's love for Lily came straight from the bottom of his heart, because of who she was on the inside. I always found that so sweet.

If Lily stayed with him, he would have only grown worse. The best thing for him was when Lily left him. He needed that consequence. "It ends with us", breaking the cycle, was not just for Lily and Emmy, but also for Ryle to give him a chance at real change.

In my opinion, I don't think that Ryle is a bad person. Yes, he did some terrible things but who doesn't. At least he tried to be better for Lily instead of just acknowledging it and I think that that also matters. Ryle had some past trauma and that doesn't explain what he did but everyone reacts different to situations. But I think that Lily leaving him made him realize that he really needed to control himself and that actions do have consequences. He definitely loved Lily and cared about her enough to let her go as it was for the best for her and their daughter. He wasn't a person who abused his wife for fun or even intentionally but because he was mentally sick.

I don't think he's a bad person or at least I don't want him to be a bad person. I liked him in the first parts of the book, I liked his character and I still do. I'm not excusing him for his actions (when he pushed Lily down the stairs or when he raped her) but the dude has a lot of baggage, there's all that childhood trauma. I think he needs to needs to take some time off for himself, get himself into therapy.
If Colleen does make another book, like a part 2 or something, I don't want Lily to end up with Atlas. I hope the timeline is like 3-5 years down the line. Ryle is in therapy he is taking care of himself. I'm on team Ryle lol, he needs to come through!

He's not a bad person. Yes, he did make terrible stuff to Lily and if I was in that situation, I wouldn't really forgive him for it. But he has suffered from the past and he's practically still have problems with it.Though to non readers who would hear a brief summary off the book, they must think Ryle is the bad person and Lily should never hesitated to leave him. But people make mistakes, and we should all forgive them to make them learn from it.

I agree with everyone I don’t think he’s a “bad person”. I don’t think we should condone his actions by saying “this happened in his past” because I’ve read alot of books where the male character has had a traumatic past/childhood and they have not physically abused their partner. I loved this book and I connected with Ryle more than Atlas because ryle was in it more. I even subconsciously forgave him the first time he hit lily because I couldn’t believe he did it on purpose but of course after the second time I was screaminggg at my book (literally) 😭. But I’m happy there isn’t a redemption arc for Ryle in the sequel because his actions shouldn’t be condoned. But again I don’t think he’s a bad person

I think that Ryle is not a bad person, I see that he's struggling. But I still stand with Lily. It's actually a good thing that they've broken up to be the better version of themselves, especially Ryle. His traumas are not healed, seeing how he reacts, and how he handles his own anger. He may be sincere to his feelings with Lily, but I don't think that it would be an ideal to use Lily some sort of punching bag.

If ever they've got back together, it would probably cause more chaotic fights. More hate speech and violence will be held. I'm glad that Lily stand for herself. And i'm also glad that even they've broken up they compromised for the sake of their daughter, so yeah I still believe that Ryle is a good person, despite of the things he had done.

But here's a reminder:

Your past trauma/s will never be an excuse to hurt people. I get it that it was "unintentional" but doing it twice or more, that's a habit :)

I like your reminder.
I feel that Ryke needs to lose Lily as a major wakeup call for him to FIX himself. If he never suffers the consequences for his actions, he will never change.

I agree with much of your insight. He did progressively worse the longer she stayed with him. She needed to leave, not just for herself, but to show him that his actions have a consequence so he can decide to change. I certainly hope she does not end up with him in the sequel.

Ryan isn't a bad person. As Colleen Hoover said in her book, "There's no such thing as bad people. We're all people who sometimes do bad things. He was traumatized by a situation that happened to him during his childhood. Obviously, this doesn't excuse his abuse to Lily.

However, he did regret it many times and he tries his best to stop abusing Lily. He leaves whenever he feels the burst of anger, most of the time. He also knows that he isn't necessarily a great person so he blocks himself from the world, afraid that he would hurt anyone like how he did in his childhood. Lily just so happens to charm him so much that he ends up falling in love with her.

So in conclusion, I, personally, don't think that Ryan is a bad person. He is just a normal human being that made many bad decisions. I think that with time, he'll be able to fall in love with someone and won't end up abusing them.

Well I am from Mexico. 10 women are killed on the daily here due to feminicides (man killing women just cause they’re women) most of these women are killed by their romantic partners. These type of man are not mentally ill or need therapy, this is actually a very dangerous narrative to tell about abusers.

I was abused as a child and have major ptsd during my whole life, and I know there are many others as myself and we don’t go around abusing people. Abuse is a conscious choice.

Ryle didn’t show any signs of ptsd or trauma on this book, he did however had most of the narcissistic personality traits. At some point y’all are just gonna have to deal with the fact that abusers don’t deserve empathy, they don’t need help or to be forgiven. They’re just shit.

To say Ryle is not a bad person would be stretching it. But to say that Ryle is a downright evil human being would be an exaggeration too. Ryle did some horrible things to Lily- the woman he supposedly loved and cared for more than anything. What Lily went through with him is something that nobody ever deserves to experience in their lives.

Ryle has a lot of childhood trauma to deal with, and in my opinion, has caused him to become a violent, narcissistic individual. However, I will say that for the first few chapters in the book, we were exposed to the sweet side of him that both his sister and Lily seemed to hold onto ( to prevent themselves from seeing the other side of Ryle)

I genuinely wonder what Ryle’s relationship with his daughter will be like as she gets older and older and eventually learns the truth about Ryle and Lily.

Ryle is not a bad person, but he most definitely is not a good person either.

He is narcissistic, manipulative, abusive, and dishonest, yet charming and affectionate. A ticking time bomb. His words and actions in this book have made that painfully clear.

I would not say that Ryle is a bad person, I would just say that he loses his temper often and sometimes can't control it. We can see how sorry he is when he hits her and we know he means it! He cares about Lily and he cares about his daughter which makes him regret what he did even more. All in all, he is not a bad person. Just a good person who does bad things.

Ryle has good intentions, he never meant to inflict that kind of pain on her. Ryle grew up with a pretty messed up childhood, I mean he killed his sibling. I can only imagine the trauma he has. I do not believe his actions are justified but the man was trying. I think at heart he wants to be a good person, he just has too much trauma from his past that haunts him.

Personally, I think that Ryle isn't a bad person but he also isn't a good person. Every time he did something he was immediately apologetic, which of course didn't mean anything. He could recognize the fact that he did something wrong and yet he kept repeating the same actions. I think that if Ryle got the help he needed for his anger issues things could have been way different but since he didn't he kept lashing out, to him in the moment his actions may have seemed right but once he cooled of he always realized that what he had done was bad but none of that matters because he still hit her. She was 100% right for leaving him and he should not have gotten into a relationship he clearly was not ready for. So I think Ryle is in a gray area.

Even if there is no totally bad or totally good, he was bad for Lily. I also don't think that his behavior can be excused by his past and trauma. He needs help. It was selfish of him to beg for second and third chances when even he didn't know what he was capable of. I nevertheless do feel very bad for him, because I think every person deserves luck. But nobody deserves luck and happiness at the expense of others.

Leonie wrote: "Even if there is no totally bad or totally good, he was bad for Lily. I also don't think that his behavior can be excused by his past and trauma. He needs help. It was selfish of him to beg for sec..."

Best answer to this question so far.

I don't think he is a bad person. I think he's suffering with deep issues that effect him mentally. He projects these issues with anger and when he sees red, he hasn't got the ability to control it.
However, I think these issues can't be taken into account much in a relationship (with a baby on the way). It is unacceptable to physically abuse your partner, whether you meant it or not. Until Ryle finds effective help, the relationship will never work, he would be a danger (unfortunately because of his past traumas).
Not a bad person just somebody with issues that not many other people can relate too. I think the book helps us side with lily (obviously), and it is east to think of Ryle as a bad person. His past must be considered but his actions cannot within a relationship

I think Ryle is a very gray chracter. I don't think Ryle is a bad person but I don't think he is a good person either. He has a mental illness and I think he did get help but after that kind of trauma I don't think it is posibile to heal completly but he kinda hides behind that. I can't decide if he is a bad person or not but Either he has a mental illnes or he doesn't Lily didn't deserved to be treated like that. I can say that his parents was bad parents.

isn't obvious?

**SPOILER WARNING**
People are saying no I don’t think he is a bad person, he has trauma that he hasn’t healed from and he gets triggered and reacts without thinking… This apparently means he is not a bad person, he is just a damaged person who made bad choices... And a part of me sees why someone would conclude that from those moments where he has flashes of anger and lashes out, like when he pushed her in the kitchen and pushed her down the stairs, as you might consider that he hadn't consciously made the choice to hurt her. The same way that Lily excused it, right?
But what about the final time? When he manipulated her into taking her clothes off, made her read the article naked, and then intentionally bit her really hard? What about when he then followed her into the bedroom, forced himself on her when she was begging him to stop, and then knocked her out? He had time to think about what he was doing throughout all of this because it was drawn out. This wasn’t a flash of thoughtless, anger… This was calculated. He had been waiting for her. It was slow and malicious. Ryle is a bad person.

yes, he is I hate him.

I don't think Ryle is a bad person. I think he's just had a rough past and I'm not saying lily should have given him another chance but Ryle isn't a terrible person he's just made some terrible decisions and there's always enough room for change.

I felt the most for Ryle. He was such a tragic character. He knew he had a dark side of himself and tried to avoid getting into situations he couldn't control. That's why he did not want to get into relationship before he met Lily. His life would have been orderly and successful as he planned if he did not fall in love with Lily. But he let himself love and lost control and the demon inside him took over. What he did to Lily was unforgivable, and there was no excuse for the violence and pain he caused Lily. He was not fit to be in a relationship unless and until he was healed from past trauma and learned how to express and control his emotions.

Ok let's see it from Hoover's point of view; Ryle is not a bad person but he definitely did some very bad and terrible things from the very start . First you don't make a girl fall for you when you are fully aware that it might not end well because an issue that YOU have, no matter how you think you are obsessed with her. Second, Ryle must have explained his problem to Lily when he figured that he had feelings for her, she deserved to know it all!! And third (which pisses me off the most) you Definitely don't marry anyone unless you are cured and he didn't bother seeing a therapist even then which is so irony since he Had medical background and knew how serious the situation was and Just chose to ignore it.

I believe Ryle is a tragic character with a tragic ending. His actions throughout the entire book was highly concerning and toxic. I believe the only person he needs is himself, he's not fit for a relationship with others- such as Lily. There's no excuse for the violence and pain he caused Lily, nobody should have to go through that. He shouldn't be in a relationship, but I do believe he can work on himself for the better good. I don't excuse any of his actions because they were all bad intentions. Is he a bad person? I don't think so. I believe he was in a bad place for himself and he shouldn't of put himself in a relationship to begin with due to his traumatic past.

Megan wrote: "**SPOILER WARNING**
People are saying no I don’t think he is a bad person, he has trauma that he hasn’t healed from and he gets triggered and reacts without thinking… This apparently means he is no..."

Finally! I agree with you 100%
If all the abuse scenes were like the first two (in the kitchen and on the stairs) I could buy the idea "he has a trauma and he can't control his emotions". But the last scene of abuse was premeditated, it was cruel.
In addition, he spent years studying a very demanding career, he has a super stressful job, but somehow in his whole life he only loses his temper with Lily.
The author has said that her intention was to show the good side that Lily fell in love with, and that Ryle really isn't a bad person. But I think she didn't make it.

Emma wrote: "Personally, I don't believe Ryle is a bad characters although I know many people don't agree with me. Ryle did some horrible things, made awful mistakes and definitely does not deserve to be with s..."
Je suis complètement d'accord, il a juste besoin d'aide pour aller mieux

I don't think there's any such thing as good or bad. As Ryle says in the beginning of the book, There's no such thing as bad people. We're all just people who sometimes do bad things. I personally believe that this fits with his situation perfectly. He wasn't a bad person but he did do some bad things. Obviously his childhood trauma doesn't give him an excuse for what he did and he should've tried better at controlling his emotions. In the end I believe Lily was smart in leaving him because if she had gone back to him, he never would've realised the problem with him, just like he didn't the first two times.

TBH I don't believe Ryle is a bad person I'LL KEEP SAYING THAT, the thing is Lily kept comparing him to her father, I mean for instance: there was that one time where her father hit her mom cause she took his garage place which we can all agree Ryle would never do, he'd buy her an entire one for herself
So All I'm saying is that Ryle suffers from PTSD and it isn't completly him who hits Lily.
he was always there for her, and he always supported her so if only she could stay with him and help him. And I still think that without Atlas' presence it wouldnt have gone that bad since 2 out of 3 times Ryle crossed the line was because of Atlas

Absolutely not! I am a huge believer in developmental psychology and his childhood definitely influenced his impulses to react physically. Does that make it right? No. However, his actions in this book was not coming from a place of evil and malice. He loves Lily. In the beginning of the book, he said he didn't do relationships. Why? perhaps he knew how he was and possibly worked on it in the past but didn't have much successful. He took a chance with Lily because he loved her but he is physically sick in that area of aggression. It's not his fault and he is no where near a bad person. (Not to mention, he was under alcohol influence each time)

NOT AT ALL!!! I think with a lot of therapy, Ryle would be a much better person. I think Lily should have given him some time to heal. A lot of things in Ryle's life is influenced by his past which should not be the case. I also feel like Lily knew in her subconscious mind that she had Atlas and that he would leave anyone for her and that is partly why I feel she was not ready t give him some time.

sam wrote: "On one hand, I understand what Colleen was trying to say with the whole 'nobody is either 100% bad or good', but I have a hard time believing that Ryle is one of those. Ryle's behaviour from the ver..."

Nobody is good either Sam, yes he should have sought help, yes his dead brother should not be an excuse, but it's a book and there are endless worlds of possibilities, things that may have been insinuated in the plot but are not written. Say maybe, he was racked with guilt, his parents blamed him, he is constantly reminded of his murder in his dreams, his therapist wasn't making any difference, and his only outage was violence. Many times telling somebody is not enough. Change cannot be brought about by any therapist, it comes from inside triggered by a sequence of events that should make him realize himself.
Ending the toxic cycle by Lily was definitely one.
So no, he is not a bad person, just a victim of circumstance who hasn't figured out the destructive path he is treading.