Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for The Shadow Rising by Robert Jordan starting March 11, 2022.

Yay! Found it!

Every time I stop reading this series to pick up another BR book, a little voice in my head says "aww." And I'm not even channelling.

Also, apparently if you try to put three w's in a row, GR automatically hyperlinks them. So, aww.

Marking my place.

I'm hoping to start later tonight or tomorrow. It's been a really slow day so far at work and I haven't been able to finish the other book I'm listening to to start this one.

I will be here soon:)

I read the first chapter on the bus this morning; anyone else started?

(view spoiler)[ Min's visions have set the scene nicely for me to be worried; looks like a disaster is heading for Tar Valon, but how soon? In spite of her visions of death and blood, it's the one of the Amyrlin Seat I found most disturbing. And I don't like Elaida at all.

The Whitecloaks are about to wreak havoc in Two Rivers. Part of me hopes that Rand's dad does turn out to be a complete badass who takes several of the cloaks down by himself, part of me hopes he doesn't as he may have more chance of surviving that way, if anyone does. (hide spoiler)]

Got two books to finish first. :) I'll be a while.

I will be here in a bit as well...

Chapter 24 (view spoiler)[ Why does Matt just assume that all of these work the same way? Sigh. I like Matt, but he can be an idiot at times. (hide spoiler)]

I worked this weekend and have gotten a lot listened to, this was a few chapters ago, not sure exactly where.

Chapter 49 (view spoiler)[ Okay, so I did not see the coup at the White Tower coming, I should have guessed something like that happening with what Min saw especially of Siuan. (hide spoiler)]

Elizabeth, are you enjoying it?

I'm liking the latter parts more than the earlier. This one took a little longer for me to get invested, but I'm really enjoying it now. I'll probably finish when I go back to work Wednesday.

Awesome! I happen to love the way this series is written, so I am always happy when others enjoy them too:)))

I'm soooo behind :( saw season 1 in tv, but still didn't have books in my hands. I'll find them when not look for them...I bet :) enjoy reading girls and boys!

Elizabeth wrote: "I'm liking the latter parts more than the earlier. This one took a little longer for me to get invested, but I'm really enjoying it now. I'll probably finish when I go back to work Wednesday."
I am about 10 chapters in, and have found it definitely slow. I'm glad top hear it gets going.

I just finished Ch. 4... (view spoiler)[ The bubbles of evil making bad things happen randomly is a pretty scary concept... The Dark One is definitely steering... Mat is being Mat, but even he is aware enough to understand that his old dreams of doing well in the Two Rivers is now way too small for him... With just the money in his pocket he could have lived comfortably to the rest of his life there, while in his current situation he can gamble it away in an evening... The cards attacking him was very cool... I dislike the Tear nobles.

Perrin is in trouble! Fail is a very ambitious young woman who likes to play games and is obviously set on him, trying to push him to claim power, which is against his nature... It is hilarious how he is growing a beard because Fail happen to mention that she likes men with beards:))) He is doomed... The attack in his room by the axe was also pretty fun...

Rand is also in trouble with pretty ladies all trying to get him by getting "close" ... I am pretty sure Mat is the only one of the Two Rivers folk who is not a virgin:) Lady B sneaking up on Rand during the night was obviously a disaster for her .. I was embarrassed for her. And the little Rands jumping out of the mirror to fight him, while he absorbed them, that was something!

I can't believe they still mistrust Moiraine! What does the woman have to do for them to understand that she really is trying to help?!

Min going to the tower in Tar Valon and all her visions .. Shaitarn, as you said, not good at all!!! The Amrylin Seat, for all the power she has, I don't think truly appreciates the danger the Tower is facing...

I really hate the White Cloaks at this point... They might have started out with the purest of intentions, but they have turned into unbending zealots, and as we know, are riddled with dark friends in power... They are like a constantly nipping at your ankles dog... Eventually it might really hurt you.

Elaida is obviously not a Darkfried, at least judging by her internal monologue. However, she is another extremely ambitious lady with a ton of power and brains, but also a ton of resentment and full of righteousness, correct or not. And she has decided that Siuan needs to go. If I am on Siuan's place, I will be thinking of where I could send her on some mission, but keep her away from The Tower and opportunity to scheme... (hide spoiler)]

So far so good. It is detailed and not all action, but I don't feel like it is slow... Just right for me at the moment:)))

Finished up to Ch. 18... (view spoiler)[ The attack on the Stone was unexpected at this moment. So many Trollocks and Fades, it was surprising. I was also surprised how easily Landvier handled Rand and now I am grateful more than ever, that she has this idea that she loves him, because otherwise he would have been dead several times by now. But she is convinced that if she lets him learn and get stronger, he will be worth her investment. It is still disconcerting the awe she spoke with about serving The Dark One though...

Loial saving all those kids and women - l love him so much!

Rand trying to save the dead girl and almost making a zombie out of her, that was sad and scary at the same time.

Moiraine almost dangled the knowledge about the gate granting three answers Infront of the kids noses. I know they are not kids, really, but they are still too naive, so they might as well be.

The way Fail tries to manipulate our wolf boy is getting on my nerves. I know she is a strong woman and all that, but she comes off much more as a spoiled brat with brains and cunning than anything else. And very jealous, obviously. I am all behind the idea of Perrin and Loial going to the Two Rivers and taking care of some White Cloaks!

Meanwhile, Min is playing at being a spoiled brat and is not doing well at it. Her doing embroidery had me laughing! She is so terrible at it! But here we have the beginning of something extremely scary - Galad is reading White Cloaks propaganda!!! And since in its origins it is a good idea, he might really buy into it!!! That is terrifying, particularly knowing that once he decides on something, he goes all in and doesn't know or is able to bend!!! This would be horrible. I was almost screaming in my head - Min, stop him! Tell him it's a bad idea! Stop pretending you are stupid and vapid and stop him from making a enormous mistake!!!

Mat went through that door and learned that he needs to go to Reordan, will give up half the world to save the world, and will marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons... Haha, of all that he was afraid of marrying a noble woman the most:)) Most probably, he is right...

The creatures in that realm were creepy... They feed on emotions and experiences, how interesting! It was kind of hilarious that Mat, Rand and Moiraine all decided to enter pretty much at the same time...

Elaine and Egwene were funny, wondering how the one to step away from her interest in Rand, while the other steps in, without hurting each other's feelings. They forgot to ask Rand how he feels about it, so good thing he was all on board with it. The traditions of the Aiel of marrying more than one woman sure seem to be perfect for Rand and his future:)))

I love all the things we learn about the different cultures and their respective traditions. This is one of my favorite things about the series. It is awesome that not all of them are patterned after not only white Western culture, but all types from all around the world! (hide spoiler)]

I'm doing my usual thing of reading and not commenting, so I can only apologise for that. At the moment I'm 26 chapters in and absolutely love it! I didn't find it too slow at all; the story is sweeping me on and if this continues through the whole book I think it could well become my favourite volume of the series so far!

Shaitarn, I totally agree!!! I was planning on taking it slowly, but I can't put it down. I am in Ch. 25 and the boys minus Perrin are at Reordan... (view spoiler)[ This twisted gate was different than the first. The first was answering questions, this one granted wishes, I am guessing, but for a hefty price. The creatures granted him his memories (which are of the reborn Mat, not from this life), have him the medallion which will keep him safe from magic, and gave him the spear to fight... They sure read a lot in his words, and he didn't even know what was the game he was playing, thus they followed rules he was not aware of. But when they hung him, did they have any idea that Rand was going to save him, or was his life the price for their gifts???

The story of the Aiel, OMG!!! The true Aiel were the following The Way of the Leaf... The tinkers are the original, true Aiel!!!! They were sworn not to kill and not to use weapons... It is absolutely abhorrent the way others abused them, just because they wouldn't participate in violence... I don't think I would have been able to stay true to the Way either... I would not have been able to see those people rape, enslave and kill my women and children, and all those I love, and just accept it... I would have fought, or found a way to scheme my way to killing them all, or at least trying to... It seems they could follow the Way in the beginning, when the power of the Aes Sedai was protecting them, but without this protection they were just pray for unscrupulous folk... That whole episode with what Rand saw in the city just broke my heart!!!

I loved meeting the Wise Ones:) I can't wait to see how much "gentler" their training is than that of the Tower. I have a feeling that all the stuff that is in that abandoned city is what the original Aiel were hauling around for the Aes Sedai and now Moiraine is going to claim it for the tower. I am guessing most of it are Angreal and Ter'angeal.. At least the Aiel are not using them...

So, Aviendah is also a channeler... And she is also going to be training with the Wise Ones. Can't wait to see that:))

That one boy, who was against May and Rand going in, he is going to be trouble.

I wonder if we are going to see what revelations Moiraine and Aviendah get to experience... I hope so!
(hide spoiler)]

I am absolutely loving this book!!! ❤️

**I meant Rodian above...**

Up to Ch. 33... (view spoiler)[ Wow! Look at Perrin taking charge!

Going back to the Two Rivers and finding out his family has been killed off, was so sad... And as Padan Fain was thinking to himself, obviously he was the one who did it, not the Trollocks... I hate that creature with all of my heart!!! And he is killing off everyone and everything that he perceives as standing in his way... I need him to be killed in the most painful way!

It is good to see all the Two Rivers folks and Verin again! I know everyone is a suspect, but I really like her and Egwene's and Rand's parents. I hope none of them gets themselves killed...

Master Luke. I don't trust him for a second! I wonder if he has anything to do with the murdered animals in the dream and real world... (hide spoiler)]

Up to Ch. 47... (view spoiler)[ I am so upset, I can't even express it! So much has happened, but Elaida taking down Siuan and stilling her, then Gawine being on the side of Elaida and killing all those loyal warders, it just broke my heart!!! I wanted to scream at the stupid young idiot!!! You are on the wrong side, dude! Elaine and Egwene are going to be so disappointed in you! Thank goodness for Min and the cook lady, setting them free, even though bought have no more power... Actually made me cry...

The things in Two Rivers are at least somewhat balanced - good things are happening, but also bad stuff is happening as well... Master Luke and the White Cloaks are definitely trouble... And all the villagers acting like they can't make a decision without Perrin, was kind of funny. I am sad for the young Tinker who gave up The Way of the Leaf because of loosing his mother, and took up the sword... I was really sad for his grandma and grandpa though, because they really lost all of their blood relatives now... Just so sad...

As I said, a ton of stuff happened, but I am too emotional over it to break everything down. Robert Jordan sure knows how to get to me, even when he is not really trying. (hide spoiler)]

Up thru Chapter 16..(view spoiler)[ After the Leavetaking , it should really be interesting to see the new areas of Tanchico and The Waste, and back to Two Rivers. I am really curious about the Daughter of the Nine Moons, prophesized for Mat. (hide spoiler)]

Frank, it was hilarious how strongly Mat reacted to that particular prophecy:)))

So I finished this yesterday at work. I loved it! It started out kinda slow, but man... (view spoiler)[ No idea how to spell the name, but I'm really enjoying Perrin's wife. Everything happening back in the Two Rivers was so interesting. I didn't trust Luke from the start. (hide spoiler)]

So far, my favorite characters are probably Perrin, Elaine and Egwaine.

Jumping in two weeks late! On the plus side, I'm planning on reading #4 & #5 back to back so that'll be fun. :)

We are here, Nirkatze:)

Elizabeth, you have no idea how happy I am that you are enjoying the series!!! I hope it stays that way to the end:)))

I'm dying to start the next one, just biding my time for the buddy read to start.

Only five days for that!

Nirkatze, you need to get on the ball:)))

LOL, ball rolling. :)

Shaitarn wrote: "I read the first chapter on the bus this morning; anyone else started?

[spoilers removed]"

Going slowly here, took a while to read Chapter 1. (view spoiler)[I was glad to see Min again--I had been wondering how she was doing on her quest to the Amyrlin, but we didn't get to see her at all.

It definitely looks like they're girding up for a Black Ajah takeover. (hide spoiler)]

re: Elaida (view spoiler)[I'm surprised that the insight into Elaida seemed pretty clear that she is not Black Ajah though--which means that if she ends up making a bid for Amyrlin that she'd end up as a Black Ajah puppet. Probably her second would be Black.

I actually felt a little more sympathetic toward Elaida after her peek--she's doing what she thinks is right, after all--she's just blind to the true state of current events. (hide spoiler)]

My thoughts about Elaida exactly. She is not Black Ajah, but she is very ambitious and thinks little of the talents of others. It is kind of sad, because she is very smart, but somewhat lost, and her best intentions are doing more harm than good...

re: Elaida--I was expecting to hate her as much as Liandrin, especially because they're both Red Ajah, and what we've seen of her so far, but instead I just kinda want to slap some sense into her.

Choko wrote: "I just finished Ch. 4... [spoilers removed]"

I found myself musing on many of the same points Choko. Up through Chapter 4.

Ta'veren (view spoiler)[I thought Moiraine's explanation of the bubbles following strong lines in the Weaving very interesting--and it's kind of like how Rand's ta'veren nature spread ripples wherever he went in the last book. Only more sinister.

I also found Thom's inner dialogue about whether the ta'veren nature of the boys was keeping them all together very telling. He was thinking about it, aware of it, and even still it drew him in. The last paragraph, after he decides to stay around and help Mat: Suddenly and strangely content, he set a white stone.--the Wheel tugging on him, sending him feelings of contentedness when he does what it wills.

I do find Mat an amusing bundle of contradictions. Rand might be the strongest ta'veren, but Mat's powers of luck manipulation are the most obviously ta'veren, I feel--yet he is the one most obstinately ignoring it. To the point of it feeling like a character statement--if he ever did admit that he was ta'veren, would he still be Mat? He seems like he must keep cursing it to the end. (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 6

Boys & girls (view spoiler)[I love how the three boys still trade off thoughts about how they wish the other guys were there because they were better with girls.

Though it seems like Perrin has entered an actual relationship with Faile, and Mat seems to have become a successful playboy if his conversation with Thom is anything to go by. Jordan is pretty vague about the details, and the boy's inner thoughts still seem extremely naive. (hide spoiler)]

Girls & fears (view spoiler)[On the other hand, we now have the three girls--Elayne, Egwene, and maybe Nynaeve or Aviendha--doing similar juggling like the boys do! Egwene was just thinking about how Joya makes her nervous but not Nynaeve or Elayne, and now Elyane is thinking of how she envies Egwene & Nynaeve for showing no fear around the Black Ajah, and wishing she had their bravery. Are we going to see more of this? :) (hide spoiler)]

Moiraine being wrong (view spoiler)[I love how Egwene has a thought in the previous chapter how she'd love Moiraine to be wrong about something--but it would have to be something small, so it wouldn't be a disaster.

And then, in the next chapter, with Elayne's POV, we see Moiraine telling Egwene she would have to come to terms with the fact that Rand was not for her, that he was meant for the pattern--and we see Egwene tell Elayne that she loves Rand like a brother, and she's welcome to him--then smile--because Moiraine got something wrong! And it was a little thing, something not earthshaking, just the flavor of the relationship between Egwene and Rand.

I love that Jordan throws a bunch of little things like that in for readers to enjoy. I'd toss the constant boys/girls joke in that category as well. (hide spoiler)]

Prophecy (view spoiler)[
“Power of the Shadow made human flesh, wakened to turmoil, strife and ruin.
This sounds like the bubbles.

The Reborn One, marked and bleeding, dances the sword in dreams and mist,
Rand marked with the heron, bleeding from his side...he already did a few sword dances so far. Is this speaking of another one "in dreams and mist"?

chains the Shadowsworn to his will,
So, does that mean he'll manage to ensnare a Forsaken? Maybe get a teacher? Or just turning some Darkfriends?

from the city, lost and forsaken, leads the spears to war once more,
Stone of Tear isn't lost & forsaken so not from here then--Spears are definitely Aiel--are there Aiel lost cities? Otherwise makes me think of Manetheren.

breaks the spears and makes them see, truth long hidden in the ancient dream.”
Spears again--heading to the Waste? And an "ancient dream" sounds like another prophecy. (hide spoiler)]

Yay! I am glad you are back with it... There is nothing better than being immersed in a beloved world of Fantasy...

Chapter 11, in the Panarch's Museum (view spoiler)[I had some fun thinking on what the animals Egwene sees must be. These're surely Easter eggs from the author--the Wheel of Time is set in our world's distant future and/or distant past, after all.

The big skeleton is obviously an elephant or a mammoth, just from the size, without even the mention of holes for tusks.

Next: something that looked a little like a bear, if a bear had two front teeth as long as her forearm I think I've read that Walrus skulls are fairly similar to Bear skulls, and that genetically speaking they're cousins. So probably a walrus.

Finally: the bones of some slender, four footed beast with a neck so long the skull was half as high as the ceiling is obviously a giraffe.

Fun little tidbits! (hide spoiler)]

Tel'aran'rhiod--I love the scenes in the dream world. Not only are they ripe with portents to try to pick apart, but I love the way that Jordan writes while in the dreamer's head--they are trying to stay focused, but end up wandering down tangents, just like when we are dreaming. It reminds me of the several chapters in Eye of the World, when Rand is sick and disoriented, and we get scenes out of order and confused. It's all very cleverly done, and I love them.

ending (view spoiler)[Excited for Egwene to get a teacher! (hide spoiler)]

Egwene definitely gets a teacher, or more precisely, teachers, and they are more than she was hoping for:))))

Loved the animal skeletons, and the walrus is a good guess... I was stumped by that one for sure...

Frank wrote: "Up thru Chapter 16..[spoilers removed]"

Here here! One thing I've really enjoyed about these books has been how each one has trekked across the map to new places--and how Jordan has created whole cultures, many of which inspired by tidbits from his own world travels.

(view spoiler)[And I would like to see Mat being shackled to a noblewoman. (hide spoiler)]

Up through Chapter 19 and finding it a pleasant solace from the craziness of the work day. Too wiped out to have many thoughts right now though. >.<

Nirkatze, this world that RJ created, I think is one of the best places to escape to from reality:)))

So true! Finding it very useful right now, for sure.

Chapter 20 Mosk & Merk (view spoiler)[I love these little "our" world tidbits dropped occasionally. There was the Mother Teresa reference in one of the earlier books, and I think Mosk & Merk were mentioned there as well. Did Mosk and Merk really fight with spears of fire, and were they even giants?--Moscow & America fighting with ICBMs, during Cold War.

Then there's Was Elsbet really queen of the whole world, and was Anla really her sister? Was Anla truly the Wise Counselor, or was it someone else? Elsbet the queen makes me think of Queen Elizabeth. I or II? If same time period as Mosk & Merk, then II. Not sure about comparative empire sizes though. Victoria would have been more "of the world"-y.

Anla stumped me. I actually resorted to google for this, knowing WoT fans have analyzed everything in the books. Turns out it is a reference to Ann Landers, the advice columnist from mid-to-late 20th Century. I guess she was before my time, since I'd never heard of her. (hide spoiler)]

OMG! Nirkatze, this is exactly why I need you in my buddy reads! concentrated and fully engaged:))) This was my second read and I hadn't made those two connections to our world at all... It makes total sense! And yes, Ann Landers was the Dear Ann columnist, hahaha!

LOL! I'm glad I'm useful!

Chapters 23-28 or so, Rhuidean and sexual innuendo. (view spoiler)[So, I've heard, for example, that Tar Valon island is supposed to be shaped like a vagina, with North Harbor being the clitoris. So Jordan is no stranger to sexual innuendo--even though his books are otherwise fairly chaste, and as far as we know all of our Emond's Field five could still be virgins.

So I don't know if this is my mind playing tricks in the gutter, or if this was Jordan laughing up his sleeve as he wrote this to see if anyone would catch on.

But Rhuidean. Men can only come once. Women come three times.

Women go through a series of three rings. Labia, anyone?

Men go to...well, let's let the text speak for itself. It was the black metal spear, so unnaturally erect, that suddenly told him what they must be. Well, I think I know what Jordan meant it to be.

So, the trip to Rhuidean is Jordan's metaphor for a sexual awakening. (hide spoiler)]

Elizabeth wrote: "Chapter 24 [spoilers removed]"

re: Mat being an idiot (view spoiler)[I know right? A lot of it comes back to his stubbornness--"If you say I have to do this then I'm not going to do this and you can't make me!" but then he's purposefully ignorant sometimes too, and impulsive. But his loyalty to his friends and innate sense of social justice come out almost in spite of himself, making them more charming.

I wonder if he will admit that he was an idiot here, or keep barreling forward. Men! (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze, I think Mat is the only non-virgin in our group:) And yeah, I noticed the sexual symbolism, and I appreciate it, given how tame he is in his explicitness:)))) I think a cuddle and a dangling on the knee is as far as he has gone, at least so far:)) Good thing, particularly since you know how I feel about great male fantasy writers and romantic or sexual scenes... :)

LOL Yes, I can't complain about the lack of explicit sexual scenes either.

Choko wrote: "Finished up to Ch. 18... [spoilers removed]"

re: Stone attack (view spoiler)[This caught me by surprise too. I wasn't expecting a direct attack, for all that Moiraine had been hinting that Sammael would see Rand's inaction as a weakness and would strike first if Rand didn't do anything.

Loial is a badass! And I love how Perrin remembered an old saying: “To anger the Ogier and pull the mountains down on your head.”

The scene with the little girl was heartbreaking. And it also shows how even for all Rand's power, some things are still beyond him.

Thinking of death though--the Dark One seems to have power over it somehow--whether that is in truth power over all souls when they die, or only those who have pledged to the Dark (in the first book it was suggested that he had hold of Kari al'Thor, but he is also the Father of Lies)--and it is also suggested that the Forsaken may have died before and been returned to life, but whether in the same bodies, or implanted in new bodies (of Darkfriends? Ripping one soul out and replacing with another?) or reborn, we don't know. And only suggested so far, not confirmed. So using the Power to conquer death may be possible, just beyond Rand's capability at this point. And there are probably lots of required circumstances to check off. (hide spoiler)]

re: Min (view spoiler)[Elmindreda! Hilarious. I'd be getting stir-crazy as she is too though... The list of things the Amyrlin told her that she can "still be useful with" and the things she did that "helped" the white tower seem like make-work to me. (hide spoiler)]

re: Moiraine and more White Tower, through Chapter 28 (view spoiler)[While I still have a lot of appreciation for Moiraine (more than the Emond's Fielders, and more than I thought I would), I am definitely starting to feel like their pride and arrogance is unfounded hubris. This book feels like it is setting up the Aes Sedai for a fall, and not just with Min's visions.

The introduction of other groups of channelers--the Sea Folk, the Wise Ones--shows that the Aes Sedai do not know as much as they think.

In the first few books, I wanted the young folks to heed the Aes Sedai more and shake them for being so headstrong--unwilling to listen to any advice just because it came from Aes Sedai. In this book... I'm feeling more like I wish the Aes Sedai would listen to advice from others, and not ignore it just because they think they know best. (hide spoiler)]

Choko wrote: "**I meant Rodian above...**

Up to Ch. 33... [spoilers removed]"

Adding in some thoughts up through Chapter 34.

re: Perrin & Rand (view spoiler)[I feel like Perrin and Rand especially have had a lot of growth from the beginning, and it's showing the most in this book. There's something about homecoming--Perrin returning to the place he left from, and seeing how much he's changed rather than the place has changed--though Two Rivers has changed too. I'm glad that Perrin & Faile are reaching a better equilibrium--the whole bit with the Ways and before made me want to slap Faile.

One of the biggest moments that brought Perrin's growth home for me was when he realized he'd called Tam & Abel by their first names, like equals. I still have a hard time calling my old teachers by their first names when I occasionally go back to visit. It's not a small step.

Rand too--well, first off, we haven't seen much of him for a book and a half. But in this, he's accepted his destiny, and we see the Sheinaran training Lan gave him in effect--duty is heavier than a mountain. He's not running away anymore. He's decided he will do what has to be done, and pay the prices necessary. And he's terrified of it, but doing it anyway. There's a lot to admire there. (hide spoiler)]

Luc & Shaeil (view spoiler)[I knew I had heard the name Luc before, so I went back and searched through my books! When Rand & Mat are on the road to Caemlyn, the cart-driver who gives them a ride tells them about the previous Queen of Andor. Luc dead in the Blight before he was ever anointed First Prince of the Sword, and Tigraine vanished—run off or dead—when it came time for her to take the throne. Still troubling us, that.

And now in Chapter 34, we're told that Rand's mother is a wetlander, who came riding silks, leaving behind a husband she did not love and a small son, and who was told she had to leave without telling anyone, or her people would suffer...

And Rand's father dying in the Blight to a man who looked like Shaiel...

Luc survived the Blight. He killed Rand's father. Rand's mother is Tigraine. Didn't some of the people who knew Tigraine also think Rand looked like her?

Then, in book 2, Verin is studying prophecies of the shadow, and this is one part:
Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.
Isam waited in the high passes.
The hunt is now begun. The Shadow’s hounds now course, and kill.
One did live, and one did die, but both are.

Not sure how Luc is connected to Isam (Lan's cousin), but it does suggest that Luc is the one who killed Rand's father, and that he's now a servant of the shadow.

So he could very well be Slayer--except that Perrin doesn't think Luc looks familiar, and Slayer does, somehow. At first I thought Slayer might be Padan Fain, but he wouldn't just look "familiar" then. Still, people can change what they look like in the realm of Dreams, so looks aren't 100%. (hide spoiler)]

Choko wrote: "Shaitarn, I totally agree!!! I was planning on taking it slowly, but I can't put it down. I am in Ch. 25 and the boys minus Perrin are at Reordan... This twisted gate was different than the first...."

More thoughts on Rhuidean--through Chapter 36 but focusing on 24&28 for Mat and 25-26 for Rand

Mat's wishes (view spoiler)[He asks for three things:
1) Memory filled
2) To be free of Aes Sedai
3) To be "free from you and back to Rhuidean"

1) Memory filled--Rand notices that Mat seems to have complete control over his Old Tongue ability. It'll be interesting to see how the other memory holes turn out--is it just his Manetheren ancestral memories, or does it also include what he lost due to the dagger?

2) Free of Aes Sedai and the Power--Mat came out of the red portal with two items--a silver medallion and the glaive. I wonder if one of those might negate channelling? And if it does--does it do so for both Saidar & Saidin? I'd guess the medallion over the spear.

The price they took was his life then? I wonder if we will see more of these Aelfinn and Eelfinn--snakes and foxes--and how is it related to the Tower of Ghenjei? And Perrin, and Slayer?

Was the spear/glaive part of Mat's wishes, or an afterthought of his price?

Also, thoughts on Mat not going through the memories like Rand did--I wonder if the path takes anyone down their ancestral memories? In which case, well, Mat already has his set, so he doesn't need it anyway. (hide spoiler)]

Rand's path (view spoiler)[Lots of interesting reveals with the history of the Aiel. I especially noticed the Nym--I think the Green Man at the Eye of the World was a Nym! And one of the furthest back memories mentioned a weapon (couldn't find the description) that sounded more SF than fantasy.

Also wondering if the Aiel ji'e'toh--and the bit about just "touching" bringing the highest honor--goes back to the original vow of non-violence? (hide spoiler)]

Luc & Slayer through Chapter 42 (view spoiler)[Just collecting information here.
--Slayer looks like Lan, and has a Malkieri headband thingy.
--Isam is Lan's cousin
--Lord Luc reportedly claims a link to a borderlands throne
--Isam has a link to the Malkieri throne, after Lan, but his mother wanted him on the throne.
--Lord Luc is red-haired like Tigraine & Rand--almost 100% Tigrane's brother lost in the Blight
--the Trolloc prophecy links Isam & Luc. Here it is again:

Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.
Isam waited in the high passes.
The hunt is now begun. The Shadow’s hounds now course, and kill.
One did live, and one did die, but both are.

One lived and one died but both are. Did the forces of Shadow like, thrust two souls into one body? So, did Isam die and is now in Luc's body too, and so when dreaming they look like Isam, but waking look like Luc? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 45

Tinker (view spoiler)[titled "the Tinker's Sword" and I just got to the part where Aram picks up a sword. Isn't this one of the visions Min had when looking at Perrin? (hide spoiler)]

Luc (view spoiler)[Luc knows who Padan Fain/Ordeith is. Slayer said to Perrin in the wolf dream that the Trollocs in the Two Rivers were "Just enough to keep those fool Whitecloaks off balance and see that the renegade died." So the "renegade" is probably Padan Fain, and Slayer/Luc is hunting him.

Luc says to Perrin: "I know something of taking an enemy into your bosom. His blade goes in quicker when he is close." Further suggests that Luc took Isam in to himself somehow. I find it hard to believe that Tigraine's brother would have been easily moved to join the Shadow. I wonder if we'll ever get that whole story. (hide spoiler)]

Very interesting... I am very interested in knowing more about Luc... I am also interested to know who is the small son Tigraine left behind... Could it be (view spoiler)[ Elaine's brother, who is not her brother, and will do only what he considers is right despite of the harm it might cause??? (hide spoiler)]