The Mime Order discussion

I don't know why this book series is not being discussed but I need someone to talk to about it! I reached the end of this book and was reeling from the twist. So much happened in this book! Does anyone think that Jax could be the traitor or the one that successfully escaped? Or that they are one in the same?

Hey! I absolutely think Jax could be/was the traitor, which would explain his connections to the dodgy Rephaim and his overall betrayal.

It would make sense. Do you think that they let him go afterward? I mean how is he not still there if he was the traitor. Also, what if the one person who escaped was him and he didn't escape but was allowed to leave and they just said that he escaped.

As you can tell I was very excited about it. I love the series so much!

Just finished The Mime Order and enjoyed it almost as much as The Bone Season! I had a little trouble getting into it at first, I think I should have reread The Bone Season to reacquaint myself with some of the terms and characters.

I definitely did see Jaxon as the one who ratted out the Ranthen and the original rebellion twenty years ago. His refusal to discuss the Rephaim and his drinking and wallowing after Paige's return made me suspicious that he was guilty of involvement in the grey market. What I really want to know is who and what is the Rag and Bone man? Is he Rephaim? Hate to wait another year+ to find out!

Yeah I am majorly curious about him too! I do think that he is human or Paige would have noticed his aura. I think he is more involved in Sciol 1 though. I am most curious in the emin. I think they could be voyants that got lost or had all of their aura taken from them in the netherworld. They are very interesting to me and I want to know what they are!

She wrote that the Rag and Bone Man was unreadable, that she could feel his dreamscape and she could say he had an aura, but she couldn't read it. Ah! she says "He wasn't a Rephaite. The Hollowness reminded me of a Buzzer, but he couldn't be one of those, either." p. 431

If I remember correctly, not positive, Zeke's aura is also unreadable, as is that of the Rag Doll guarding Agatha's defunct store. In Zeke's case, didn't something happen that he didn't like to discuss and that changed him? We'll have to see if he has anything to say about the Emim attack. Except we won't hear because he joined up with Nadine and Jax.

Your thoughts about the Emim are intriguing, that makes a lot of sense. Creepy! I really can't bare to wait for the story to continue. Get writing, Samantha Shannon, please!

Oh yeah I forgot that he was unreadable! Man that changes things in my head. Zeke is unreadable as well yes. I thought they didn't know what made him unreadable and he didn't know either. I think I need to read it again....again. :)
I am sad we wont hear what Zeke thought about the Emim attack. Maybe she will find a way around it.
fingers crossed that the next one comes out sooner than she has in mind not later.

I think the rag & bone man uses emim blood to mask his aura..

Oh that's a good thought! There is a lot of mystery surrounding him.

Ok so I just reread these books. I realized that I missed that there were two survivors and escapees of the bone season rebellion that failed. I think that Jax is baby and the Rag and Bone man was the traitor. If you think about it Warden would have recognized Jax if he was the traitor because, while he didn't know who the traitor was, he knew the humans involved at least.
The Rag and Bone man never shows his face until the scrimmage and by the time Warden gets there the Rag and Bone man is gone.
At the end when Nashira is talking about Jax she says that they have been estranged for a decade and now they have mended fences. To me this would also explain why she was looking for him so bad.

Maddie wrote: "Ok so I just reread these books. I realized that I missed that there were two survivors and escapees of the bone season rebellion that failed. I think that Jax is baby and the Rag and Bone man wa..."

I definitely need to reread these books before the third one arrives. I didn't remember that there were two survivors, either, thanks for pointing it out. Your thoughts on Jax and the Rag and Bone man sound strong, so curious to see where she takes us next! Have you read another series or stand alone novel that you liked as well as this? Always appreciate recommendations :)

Cher wrote: "Maddie wrote: "Ok so I just reread these books. I realized that I missed that there were two survivors and escapees of the bone season rebellion that failed. I think that Jax is baby and the Rag ..."

I didn't remember it until I reread it either. I don't think the significance of it sunk in until I knew what was going to happen. It looks like we are going to have to pay attention to everything in the novels to get everything on the first go round.
I have never read anything like this. But I have several books that I like as much as this one. It would depend on other types of books you like to read.

I RECKON JAX IS THE CHILD THAT ESCAPED AND RAG AND BONE MAN THE TRAITOR HENCE WHY HE KEPT SELLING THEIR PEOPLE TO THE REPHITES. jaX PROBABLY ONLY JOINED THEN BECAUSE OF PAIGE'S BETRAYAL AND SHES THE ONLY ONE SHE WAS GOING TO KILL BUT DIDN'T SO MAKES SENSE...OR MAYBE IT COULD BE THE BOOK GUY. did anyone else think eliza was kinda shady in the second book ? and i reckon buzzers are either rephites when they're not fed or clairvoyants when their auras have be taken too much. what ever happened to the irish lady from the first book ? or paiges dad? or mute Micheal?

Elizabeth wrote: "I RECKON JAX IS THE CHILD THAT ESCAPED AND RAG AND BONE MAN THE TRAITOR HENCE WHY HE KEPT SELLING THEIR PEOPLE TO THE REPHITES. jaX PROBABLY ONLY JOINED THEN BECAUSE OF PAIGE'S BETRAYAL AND SHES TH..."

That is what I think too!. Interesting theory about the buzzers. I think they could be something like that. Or maybe it is what happens when the rephites have a damaged aura. I can't wait for the next book!
Which irish lady from the first book? We see Paiges dad shortly in the second book. I'm not sure if I want her to tell him she is ok or leave him be. I really want Micheal to come back!

Elizabeth wrote: "I RECKON JAX IS THE CHILD THAT ESCAPED AND RAG AND BONE MAN THE TRAITOR HENCE WHY HE KEPT SELLING THEIR PEOPLE TO THE REPHITES. jaX PROBABLY ONLY JOINED THEN BECAUSE OF PAIGE'S BETRAYAL AND SHES TH..."
Woah!!!!! I didn't see that one coming!! Yeah, it totally makes sense that Jax is the child who escaped and the Rag and Bone man the other one. But does the timeline make sense? I remember reading somewhere that Jax is in his mid-thirties, and Bone Season XVIII was twenty years ago. It there any mention in the book of the child's age?

Hady wrote: "I think the rag & bone man uses emim blood to mask his aura.."

How does one make an emim bleed? I mean, they are shown as these horrible, grotesque creatures that suck a person's life out by their mere proximity. Do they even have blood? And if so, how did Rag and Bone man make it bleed?

Lucian wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "I RECKON JAX IS THE CHILD THAT ESCAPED
He can't be the child who escaped--I just double checked and the child was a girl! It was a good thought though. I think he's definitely the traitor, though. Timing wise, the rebellion was 20 years ago and Jaxon revealed to Paige in the Mime Order that he is in his 40s or 50s I think. So he cant be the child but can definitely be the traitor

Jaxon was born on June 18 2011 (http://sshannonauthor.tumblr.com/post...) which means he was around 28 in 2039 when the rebellion of the Ranthen happened, so I don't think he was the child.

I think we should also consider when ON THE MERITS was published - 2031; he couldn't be the traitor if he was on London when On the Merits was published because the Bone Season would've happened in 2029.

Danielle wrote: "Jaxon was born on June 18 2011 (http://sshannonauthor.tumblr.com/post...) which means he was around 28 in 2039 when the rebellion of the Ranthen happened, so I don't think he was the..."

Ah, I really need to reread both books before the next arrives: my poor memory. Very interesting details you've put together! Do you have ideas you'd like to share about the identities of the traitor and the child?

My theory is that one of them is the Rag and Bone Man, I see people here also have the same thoughts! :) I'm wondering tho who the child is... Hmmm...

Could Eliza be the child?
1. The child was a girl.
2. The child was around 3-4 during the rebellion and she was just brought there (or so I think, because her number is XVIII-39-0) and Eliza was born on 2036... so she was 3 by then.
3. She told a bit about her history in The Mime Order where she was raised by traders... but they resent her, so I don't think they particularly cared what happened to her.

And I'm taking it back, Jax could be the traitor; what with 20 years of estrangement with Nashira. And the name-number of the traitor is 39-7. SEVEN. SEVEN SEALS.
Or he could be not...
But one way or another, Jax surely knows about the rebellion 20 years ago.

Danielle wrote: "Could Eliza be the child?
1. The child was a girl.
2. The child was around 3-4 during the rebellion and she was just brought there (or so I think, because her number is XVIII-39-0) and Eliza was bo..."
Oh, Jax DEFINITELY knew.
And as for Eliza... I don't know, I don't think so.It's been a long time since I read this book, but I remember that Eliza was skeptical towards Paige's story; she behaved as though she didn't know that Rephaim or the emim exist and that she didnt believe it. And Eliza doesn't strike me as so deceptive a character as to lie at such a large scale.
But who knows? Sam Shannon is a MASTER of plot twists, so I may be wrong after all.

I don't think Jax was ever in the penal colony, but he was most definitely involved in the voyant trafficking.

As far as the Emim go, what if they are the Rephaim version of a poltergeist?

And as for Eliza... I don't know, I don't think so.It's been a long time since I read this book, but I remember that Eliza was skeptical towards Paige's story; she behaved as though she didn't know that Rephaim or the emim exist and that she didnt believe it. And Eliza doesn't strike me as so deceptive a character as to lie at such a large scale.."

I think Eliza is a fantastic guess as to who the child could be! Remember she was addicted to white aster for a long time (it is the one that whitewashing effects) so she might not remember the colony at all. Plus the fact that she was really young might mean that she wouldn't remember. I don't think that she would try to hid that fact but that she honestly didn't remember.

As for Jax, I truly believe that he was the traitor. He is out for himself and the rebellion would have caused enough of a distraction for him to escape the colony. I doubt that he was the traitor because he didn't believe in getting rid of it but because he saw a way to use the colony after he got out of there. Once back in Scion he could have helped with voyant trafficking to make money. As I said he is out for himself. He wanted to get Pagie back because she was his biggest money maker and he knew that Nashira could find him again through Pagie (she was bent on finding him even before Pagie got to the colony in the first place). Once he saw that it was no longer in his best interest to hide from Nashira he decided to join forces with her again.

I think we should also consider when ON THE MERITS was published - 2031; he couldn't be the traitor if he was on London when On the Merits was published because the Bone Season would've happened in 2029."

WE know that ON THE MERITS was published in 2031 and that The Bone Season with the traitor in it was in 2029 but we don't know the date of the actual rebellion or when the traitor acted. He could have gotten all the information about the different voyants from the colony and then escaped during the craziness of the failed rebellion and written and published ON THE MERITS right after he got back. I mean Paige was hardly in the colony and she learned a lot about the government but as we know Jax doesn't care about anything but himself. That could also be where he got his love for the music and wine and books that are banned.

SONG RISING SNEAK PEEK! Now I get it. No wonder about HOW (like who funded it) it was released.
https://thebandarblog.com/2016/08/23/...

His roots. His ROOTS!!!!!!!!
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maddie, you were right!!

Good job Maddie! You guessed it. I read the first 4 pages of the prelude on Tumblr this morning and now I feel the need to go back and reread the books...

Guys, I just reread the books. Can we talk about David? His role in the whole affair is just so ambiguous. He helps Paige with that stage explosion in the revolt in the Bone Season, but he refuses to get involved in anything. And he just disappears off the face of the earth in Mime Order. And what was that cryptic shit he said about it not being necessary that The Scion was happy about being puppeteered by the Rephaim, and that maybe they're trying to do something about it?

David was an interesting addition. I felt he was a pretty major catalyst in Paige's revolution. He then helps out but disappears. I almost wonder if he is plant from Scion to start a revolution for Scion to get out from under the rephs control.

I think the fact that he disappears is not a big deal. Most of the people from the first book disappear. Even if they made it onto the train at the end of Bone Season they disappear by chapter two of Mime Order. The fact that he pushes her in the right direction but doesn't want to get involved is just what he says it is. He is playing a very dangerous game of helping a cause but saving his skin at the same time. I don't think that is out of his character. I'm hoping in the next book some of the characters from the first book come back a little.

Yeah, I think some characters will come back, too. Michael will, for sure... he has to! David, though... I really think he had a bigger part to play in the rebellion than just be there, make cryptic comments and help out a couple of times. One- he knew much more about the bone season than he should have( he's the one who told Paige the details about the revolt in BS XVIII, the traitor and the child, and the scarred ones). Two- the night of the rebellion, when Paige ran into him, and saw that he hadnt drunk the drugged wine, he said that he knew what she was up to, and that he wouldnt stop her- he had other things to do. And three- all the times he's made an appearance, he's been so... so self assured. Unafraid. He near-openly mocks the rephaim, and I felt that there was always something about his manner that made it seem like he wanted to be there

I would like to add that we don't know what David is... like what type of voyant. If I remember correctly, Paige tried to guess it but he denies it...

Okay... Does anyone else think that it is possible that Matt is the Rag and Bone Man. I thought this could be the case while I was reading the book. If someone has already thrown that theory out there, I apologize. I haven't read all the comments on this thread yet.

Lucian wrote: "Yeah, I think some characters will come back, too. Michael will, for sure... he has to! David, though... I really think he had a bigger part to play in the rebellion than just be there, make crypti..."

Ok about David. When he comes to get Paige and isn't drugged he mentions some stuff about how not everyone in the Archon is an idot. What if he is a plant by the Archon. Yes he is an amerotic but since the Archon knows that the Rephiam exist then that would be the only way to get information on them in order to destroy them. The Archon probably doesn't like being a puppet government so they would need to find out how ti eliminate the Rephiam and the Emin and to do that they would need insider info. He was probably an NVD officer that was then transfered to a spy on the Rephiam. That is my guess with David.

The other day Samantha Shannon mentioned that there was one thing that was a foreshadowing that no one has said anything about. Does anyone know anything about the dead flower that Nashira has on her table? Doesn't it begin to bloom when Warden and Paige are under the stage? I think that is a mjor indication of something. Like the end of the Sargas and the Beginning of his family again. I think the flower is a symbol of him family like the tudor rose or something and that is why she says that some things are better left dead. When the flower blooms again that is the power coming back to Wardens family. That would be really cool at least!!

Maddie wrote: "Lucian wrote: "Yeah, I think some characters will come back, too. Michael will, for sure... he has to! David, though... I really think he had a bigger part to play in the rebellion than just be the..."

You make a good point about David being a spy for the Archon, but somehow I just don't see Scion England taking the initiative to undermine the rephaim- Frank Weaver's government is too much of a puppet for it. Some other organisation, maybe, loosely affiliated with the Archon but resentful of the rephaite's supervision?

And as for the amaranth flower, yeah, I think that flower is a major symbol in the entire series. Warden said that the amaranth blooming was the ranthen's call to arms. Gomeisa Sargas made this big speech in the centenary celebration in The Bone Season that they would ensure the 'flower of transgression' would remain wilted forever; Also, the amaranth bloomed only after that scene in the Guildhall. That flower is also the flower 'that brings down giants'. So I think that the amaranth is much more than just the symbol for the rebellion- I think it is the symbol of the union of clairvoyants and the rephaim.

Hey! what are the odds that the song in 'The Song Rising' is actually 'Ember Morning'?
That makes sense! Its a song of the Irish rebellion, and denotes loss. We already know that there's going to be a LOT of loss in the next book, and the rebellion too. So what are the chances?

So I just realized that the Rag and Bone Man isn't unreadable. He uses Emin blood to conceal his dreamscape. Warden talks about this use when he is talking more about the Emin and the Rephiam's history. I think that Paige would have recognized an unreadable aura since Zeke is one. She knows what that feels like and she describes the Rag and Bone Man's aura differently than that. Like she has never felt anything like it before.

Also another theory about David is that he could be a spy for the Rag and Bone Man instead of Scion (or someone inside Scion)

Everybody's thoughtful, insightful comments just underscore the fact that I have to reread these books before I even think about taking on the third book. Great conversation!

We don't fully know why. It was a rule that was made and enforced by the sargas many years ago. They are revolted by humans because they see humans and everything humans surround themselves with as dying or dead which before the veil was broken did not exist in their world.

Taking this in a slightly different direction, but does anyone else remember Paige, in the Bone Season, talking about the dreamscape she chased sometimes when she was spying for Jax? That it was some sort of dark dreamscape that she always tried to get to, but couldn't. I'm thinking that was Warden, looking out for her, but haven't been able to find any theories about it online. I'm curious because in the Bone Season, when he talks to her about the golden cord, he said that he has saved her life many times. Just wondering how long Warden had been watching out for her.

Also, I'm wondering about the memory that Warden mentions to Paige after seeing her memory of Nick, where he says there was a lot of blood... I'm curious if that's more information about Paige's history that we'll get later.. related to her mother dying from a placenta abruption? Did she die during Paige's childbirth?

Also, what does Paige mean at the end of the Mime Order when she tells Warden, "I don't know, don't know if I can..." etc? Any guesses?

So excited for the Song Rising!!