Star Wars Legends Fan Group discussion

AUGUST 2022 Canon Group Read


Padawan by Kiersten White



The Group read starts on August 15th.

- First published in July 2022
- Set before Episode I: The Phantom Menace

"Obi-Wan Kenobi struggles with his place in the Force as a young Padawan in this coming-of-age adventure!

Obi-Wan Kenobi really wants to be a good Padawan. The best Padawan, even. But that’s feeling more and more impossible with his new master, Qui-Gon Jinn. All of Obi-Wan’s friends are off training to be real Jedi, getting mission experience, while he’s still on Coruscant, practicing his forms and sitting in silent contemplation. Ever since Qui-Gon’s former master, Dooku, left the Order, it feels like Qui-Gon has been too busy trying to connect with the Force or arguing with the Jedi Council to properly train his Padawan.

When Obi-Wan finally convinces Qui-Gon to take him on a mission to a remote planet once explored by an ancient Jedi, his master doesn’t show up the morning they are to leave—so Obi-Wan impulsively takes off by himself. Upon arriving on the mysterious, lush planet, he encounters a group of teenagers with no adult supervision—and who all seem to have some connection to the Force. Free from the constraints of the Order, Obi-Wan joins them in their daring adventures, but the Padawan side of him keeps questioning the teens’ strange relationship to the Force, and to the verdant planet around them, and what all of it might mean to his future. Obi-Wan will test the limits of his relationship to the Jedi and to the Force in this exciting, yet soulful exploration of one of Star Wars’ most enduring heroes."

This is going to be fun. Rebecca, Tarria, Hailey, I know you've read the book recently. I hope you'll join our discussion. :)

I won't give it the honor of a reread, but I will discuss it.

I wouldn't want you to re-read a book you hated, Rebecca. But it might be fun/therapeutical to discuss it with the group and "get it out of your system". Having a good rant after watching a bad movie or after reading a bad book usually helps me feel better.

Well, we shall see how much I even remember of the book. Frankly, it was probably one of the most forgettable reads I've read in some time, and I have a semi-photographic memory.

Well, I'm the opposite if I hate something I remember for a loooong time - to this day I can produce an infinite rant about the atrocity that is Dark Lover by J.R. Ward. Read it only once - about 9 years ago. Stayed in my memory as one of the worst "popular" books I have ever read. Along with Angels & Demons by Dan Brown.

BTW I still haven't finished Brotherhood by Mike Chen. I'm stuck halfway through. The book just angered me to the point I couldn't continue and had to take a long break. Next month we'll probably do another CATCH-UP MONTH (need to discuss it with Allyssa first) - if so I'll try to finish it but it's gonna be hard.

I haven't started that one yet. This book angered me by being so forgettable that I didn't feel up to attempting a Clone Wars novel by an unfamiliar to me author. If you're going to be a terrible book, at least have the decency to be bad in a memorable way so I can have the pleasure of a good bookish rant for the years to come.

This book was just so pointless and boring. I'm still wondering why this story needed to be told at all when there are so many key parts of Obi-Wan's life that remain unexplored.
I'm no Satine fan, but a story focusing on her and Obi-Wan's relationship would be much better than this drivel.
Or maybe a book set right after Episode 1 showing Obi-Wan coping with the grief from Qui-Gon's death and the anxiety that comes with training the Chosen One. Jedi Quest gave us a little of this, but it was mostly from Anakin's point of view.
But why this book? It felt like an anime filler episode. Why did it need to exist?

Because writing anything other than insipid filler requires actual talent and thought, something Disney Lucasfilm seems to neither care for nor cultivate within the writers hired.

Well that's a very negative take... looks at Rise Of Skywalker - okay a sadly true take, however I've almost finished The Princess And The Scoundrel by Beth Revis and I think it will be my first five-star rating in the new canon. I hope more writers will take as much care when writing legacy characters as Revis did with Han and Leia.

Timothy Zahn and a hand full of others are exempt from my negative take. It does leave me flabbergasted that these new to a franchise authors are given so little guidance though. The interviews I've come across at panels makes the story group sound so controlling for what eras they can write in and which characters they get to use. I don't entirely blame the authors for this mess. I mostly blame the story group and a lack of mentoring or planning and care for the franchise from the higher ups.

The Story Group are practically non-existent at this point since every new piece of media is full of contradictions. At least two books will be partially retconned by the upcoming Tales Of The Jedi, just as The Bad Batch overwrote Kanan's escape during Order 66. There's no planning at all or Disney wouldn't keep retconning their own canon. Yet was that not one of the reasons they gave for shelving the entirety of the old EU? The lack of planning? Ironic.

Which of the canon Thrawn books would you say is the best? Because I started Alliances a while back but I put it down for a while since Padmé's characterization and all the Thrawn-Vader bickering started bugging me too much. Does it get better?

the Thrawn Ascendancy trilogy is great world building. I actually really liked the Thrawn and Vader dynamic in Thrawn Alliences. Thrawn Treason was fun.
Its weird for as controlling as the story group is, and given they have yet to let Zahn write the next Thrawn trilogy at this point because live action shows, you'd think they'd be better at continuity.

Absolutely nothing of worth happens in this book. No good lore or characterisation. The entire plot is filler. If you're not enjoying it already just skip it. I wish I had but I'm trying to be a completionist and as I'd already DNF Shadow Of The Sith I felt compelled to finish this one.

I did DNF it. It was so boring and the behavior of Obi Wan felt so wrong.

I should have dnf'd it, but I didn't. Its 400+ pages of me wishing I'd reread the worst arc from Jedi Apprentice because at least things happened! The book won't pick up unless damseling Obi-wan during the anticlimactic end of the book counts.

Now I'm reading Ahsoka and I really like it.

I finally started reading the book yesterday and everybody else either DNF or finished despite hating it. LOL!

My impressions after first 6 chapters:

1/ Both the style and the protagonist read more like a middle-grade than a YA book.

2/ Obi-Wan doesn't think or act his age. We are told he's 16 and yet nothing in the story indicates he's that old. The child we are shown by the author consistently acts as if he's about 11-13. Is there anything in the story that absolutely requires Obi-Wan to be older? I avoided all the spoilers, so I don't know. Makes me suspicious that the story contains either extreme violence or something too sexual for a pre-teen/early-teen kid. If so than why not write the character as older in the first place? Maybe I'm totally off-base.

3/ The author keeps repeating that Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon aren't together for long. It contradicts the canon - Obi-Wan became Qui-Gon's Padawan at the age of 13. 3 years is plenty of time.

4/ Is there any in-story reason for Qui-Gon being a terrible teacher? Because so far it seems he's quite incompetent. In 3 years he succeeded only in making the boy who passed his padawan trials with relative ease and was seen by his schoolmates as a leader into an extremely anxious wreck with absolutely no self-confidence.

5/ Obi-Wan finding the "map" to the mysterious planet was a bit too convenient. Something I would expect in a middle-grade book.

6/I don't know how to feel about all the references to HR and legends (e.g. Siri, Wayseekers, the name of the HR characters, Dooku's presence,...). It makes the universe too small.

7/ What does Dooku do in the Temple? I don't mind him appearing per se, but we're told he's there often. Doesn't it contradict other canon? Not sure about this one, but my impression after reading Dooku: Jedi Lost was that there wasn't much contact between the Jedi and Dooku after Yoda let him go.

8/ I find Obi-Wan's "rebellion" highly improbable. Again something a much younger kid would have done. There's no reason for Obi-Wan not to check whether Qui-Gon is still in the Temple.

Not a promissing start.

There is no in book reason given for Qui-gon's behavior. Jedi Apprentice has way more intense and dark content than this book does. Obi-wan questions if he's ace or bi after being hit on by a teen once or twice. Maybe that's why they were deemed needing to be older? The action scenes are pathetic. Tahl in her most damseled moments has more dignity and agency than Obi-wan does in this entire book.

Final thoughts from the survivors and the ones wise enough to dnf this drivel?

Tales Of The Jedi is coming out soon with fresh and hopefully better written Qui-Gon content. Don't waste your time on this.

I DNF this book the first time round. I am giving it a second chance.

Just an observation regarding the cover art.

How is this supposed to be a 16yo Obi-Wan?!



It seems that the artist took Ewan McGregor's still from TPM and redrew it taking out all wrinkles (and hillariously keeping the receding hairline). Problem is that is the face of a 27-28 year old.



For reference, this is a 16yo Ewan:

Maybe they were worried we wouldn't know who it was if he didn't have the receding hairline, or thought it was just part of the hairstyle?

They just didn't acount for children's faces usually not looking exactly like adult ones. I am not thrilled with the Jedi Apprentice bookcovers but at least they tried. You can find a photo of 15yo Ewan online, if you imagine him with very short hair you get pretty close to Obi-Wan's depiction on JA books, e.g. Uncertain Path.

27% in.

This is not a YA book. Style, themes, content, everything screams middle-grade.

I cannot accept Obi-Wan acting like that at 16. Moreover, this timeline doesn't work. It clashes with Master and Apprentice and other canon.

Obi-Wan became Qui-Gon's apprentice at 13. In this book we're told that he was a fun-loving, outgoing, top of the class student before becoming Qui-Gon's padawan. In M&A it was implied that he was a very rebellious youngling/initiate and Yoda believed that pairing him up with Qui-Gon would "correct" his behavior as his only way to rebel against a maverick like Qui-Gon would be to obey the rules.
In M&A Obi-Wan is 17 (?), only a year older than he's supposed to be in this book. Yet Claudia Gray references a lot of missions where Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon repeatedly showed that the two of them don't click. When did those mission take place? From 13 - 16 according to this book Obi-Wan sat on his tush in the Temple, his education/development neglected to the point he's been only to Illum to get his kybercrystal and nowhere else, he regressed in his Force connection so much that he stopped being able to meditate (something he did with ease as an initiate) and as to his mental state he devolved from a confident young teen into an anxious wreck with zero self-confidence. Good job, Qui-Gon!

Another thing is that the new canon messes with the TCW timeline. Obi-Wan is supposed to spend a year on Mandalore during their Civil War, 1-2 years from now. Why and how did this extremely immature sheltered child have a love affair with Satine Kryze?!

This book is rubbish.

I DNF'd a second time in May. I had to put the book down after 13 chapters. There was too much that made me angry in those initial chapters and it wasn't a good feeling. Reading should be either fun or fulfilling or preferably both at once.

I picked up the book AGAIN this week and I have to admit that from chapter 14 up to the end it flows better. When I pretended that it was a middle-grade book with a 13yo Obi-Wan rebelliously slipping the Temple to have an adventure on his own it worked. The Peter Pan flavored adventure on Lenahra works as a simple didactic story about ecology, balance, greed and addiction. It's (over)explained again and again so even very young readers understand the message. You still need to ignore Qui-Gon's role in all this because there's no way to spin the story to make him appear competent and/or responsible.

My earlier observation about not fitting with Claudia Gray's Master and Apprentice stands. These books are not compatible and it's surprising because I remember reading in an interview with K. White that she consulted with Claudia Gray.

Rebecca wrote: "This book is rubbish."

I have to agree, Rebecca.

- Qui-Gon's really dropped the ball. Obi-Wan's agemates witness his padawanship, his interactions with his master and the negative changes to Obi-Wan's moods and character. The concensus is that he would have done better with a different master. Even other masters noticed and commented as per Bolla spilling the beans:

"You need to lighten up,” Bolla pressed on. “You’re always so serious now. You used to be good for a joke. And competitive, too! Always showing us up in training.”
“I did no such thing!”
“You did. But that’s beside the point. I heard my master talking, and it was about you, and I think it’s information you should have. Especially if it turns out that Qui-Gon is joining his old master.”
...
“Master Qui-Gon Jinn didn’t choose you.”
“What?”
“He didn’t choose you. After your trial.”
Obi-Wan felt the planet tilt on its axis. “What are you talking about? Of course he did.”
Bolla shook his jewel-green head. “Yoda assigned you to him.”
...
“Why are you telling me this?” Obi-Wan asked.
“So if things don’t work out, you know it’s not your fault.” Bolla put a long-fingered hand on Obi-Wan’s shoulder, as if to be comforting. “I know we haven’t always gotten along, but you really are the best of our group...."

The terrible thing is that this has been going on for 3 years. Everybody sees it and nobody steps up and confronts Qui-Gon. I can understand that in the beginning Qui-Gon's idea was that Obi-Wan should figure out what his "problem" was on his own, yet if your pupil struggles and mentally and ability-wise degrades before your eyes, you choose another approach, you don't let this continue for 3 years to the point that the child develops anxiety.

How come that Obi-Wan has never been on a mission (other than a kybercrystal run to Illum - which is supervised), yet Qui-Gon let him go to an unknown planet full of unknown (to Qui-Gon) dangers alone. Obi-Wan could have been seriously injured or killed several times. He never piloted solo, he could have been caught in an accident easily (going through the asteroid field). Qui-Gon was unbothered when his padawan was away for several days?! He actively conceiled from other Jedi that Obi-Wan was missing so nobody could have gone to his rescue. Anything could have happened. It was a mere coincidence that he survived. If Lenahra conveniently didn't get rid of those lethal droids Obi-Wan would have died.

In Master and Apprentice Claudia Gray invented that padawanship included menial work/ chores like cleaning your master's boots, washing his clothes, generally acting as a servant. Moreover, if your master was so inclined your free time was not your own, you had to sacrifice it for your master's interests. For instance, Obi-Wan in his free-time had to research prophecies in the Jedi Archives and bring the documents he found to Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan did it not because he enjoyed it, he would have rather done anything else but he had to because Qui-Gon ordered him to do it. Studying prophecies was Qui-Gon's hobby (and not a generally approved one at that), but why do your research alone when you have an unpaid (minor) intern whom you can abuse and deprive him of his free-time. Can you imagine Qui-Gon trying something like this on Anakin?! "No tinkering with droids, Anakin, after you complete all your tasks and official duties, off you go to the Archives for 3-4 hours, go search for ancient texts on prophecies. And before you go to bed drop them in my room while you're collecting my dirty shoes and robes to clean!"

Legends!Obi-Wan is a dream teacher compared to canon!Qui-Gon. If anything he makes all sorts of adjustments and exceptions to acommodate Anakin's special needs compared to the questionable way he himself was treated by Qui-Gon at the same age.

My point is that in the new canon Qui-Gon is repeatedly portrayed as a shitty teacher/mentor. As a result I refuse to believe that he would have been a good fit for Anakin. If anything Anakin couldn't have coped with such treatment and attitude as displayed towards Obi-Wan. He would have dropped out or turned to the Dark Side much sooner.

Rant over! ;-)

- I didn't mind Obi-Wan's musings on his own sexuality. This is bound to happen in a galaxy far away where so many different species interact. (A much better sci-fi take on gender is Ursula LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness.)

"He knew some of his friends had dabbled in physical relationships—suspected Siri would have been open to it, had he ever wanted to—but it had always seemed like an obstacle, not a temptation."

His whole attitude towards attraction, kissing and sex in general reads younger than 16. I believe it would have worked fine for a 13-14 yo boy (sans his friends getting physical at that age).