Ersatz TLS discussion

Hello everyone.

A couple of things caught my attention this past fortnight.

Letters & Diaries

AB76 spoke again about the interest he’s finding in George Orwell’s letters. This prompted Veufveuve to join in:

Ah! Letters ... I've been absolutely racing through the three volume Correspondence of Josiah Wedgwood — closing in on the end of Vol. 2 right now. Such a man; always entertaining, playful, exploratory, kind, sharp, judicial.

AB76 responds:

Usually I've not been a fan of letters and prefer diaries but with Orwell I'm getting a better day to day(ish) feel of the 1937-40 period than his diaries (lots of seeds, gardening and boring stuff in the diaries), much more political stuff in the letters.

Veufveuve adds

another of my favourite historical letter writers is Charlotte Brontë

and Lass recommends Juliet Barker’s The Brontës: A Life in Letters.

MK signals A Private Spy: The Letters of John Le Carré.

I mentioned Emily Eden Up the Country: Letters from India and also recommend Vaclav Havel Letters to Olga: June 1979-September 1982, transl. Paul Wilson, bought during a trip to Prague. Sentenced to four and a half years in prison in 1979, he was allowed to write to his wife once a week.
Another interesting collection is Simone de Beauvoir Lettres a Sartre, 1930 a 1939, Tome 1, Lettres à Sartre, tome 2 : 1940 - 1963

Concerning diaries, Russell had a suggestion

If you’ve never tried James Lees-Milne, the architectural historian, biographer and friend of the Mitfords, you might enjoy them... They’re full of wonderfully amusing stories about people mainly in the landed classes, some touching, others merciless. His main job was to go round assessing estates for the National Trust. I find them very moreish, like a literary bowl of cherries, and great when you’re feeling poorly.

I’d like to add Alan Bennett, for example, Keeping On Keeping On.

Detective stories

Russell told us of W.H. Auden’s views on detective stories of which he was a fan. Georg supplied a link to the article which I’ll add in case anyone who hasn’t read it is interested: https://harpers.org/archive/1948/05/t...

I was surprised by this from Scarletnoir:

I was rather disappointed by the previous Rebus - there's far less fun to be had from an ageing detective whose body is quite weak than a younger, fitter version.

His being disappointed was not the surprising part, it seems he’s not alone, but the comment about the age of the hero amused me. I have never seen the age of a fictional detective as a positive or a negative. For example, the ageing Wexford never bothered me. Anyone else?

Finally , there are some interesting looking paperbacks here:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/ng-...

To end with, I'm sure we're all thinking of Tam and Dave and keeping our fingers crossed for them.

Thanks for putting up the new thread, and I certainly echo your thoughts for Tam and Dave.

Harking back to MK's final post on the old thread, I got my letter today telling me I would get a £500 winter fuel payment this year! I have to say that whilst recent political events have been an absolute shambles, we are not the only country facing financial and economic problems. I read in the paper at the weekend that Ford are moving production from one of their plants in Germany to Valencia. Looks like a direct lost of around 8000 jobs, not counting others dependent on those workers' incomes. We live in very unsettling times. I'm just glad I don't live in the Ukraine.

Thanks Gpfr, the showers are steady in the shires but it remains very mild (17c), leaves are falling but no sign of any seasonal or colder weather

Current reading is:
Vargas and Brazil (non-fiction) -Essays on the Vargas dictatorship 1930-1954

The Soldier and the Gentlewoman by Hilda Vaughan(1932)- a novel of west wales, an intelligent novel with feminist undertones

Knowledge of Hell by Lobo Antunes (1980)- a novel of self disgust and dismay, of a career loathed and the scars of war and a nation(Portugal) suffering

AB76 wrote: " the showers are steady in the shires but it remains very mild (17c), leaves are falling but no sign of any seasonal or colder weather..."

Even milder here in Paris. Forecast of 24° later in the week! A long range forecast predicts a very cold December and January — they say 60% accuracy. We'll see.

Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: " the showers are steady in the shires but it remains very mild (17c), leaves are falling but no sign of any seasonal or colder weather..."

Even milder here in Paris. Forecast of 24° l..."

Question about weather patterns - Here in the PNW we are heavily influenced by the El Nino/La Nina weather oscillations in the Pacific Ocean. This year, for it appears the 3rd year in a row, we will have a La Nina year. For us that means more wet (sometimes even snow!) weather. That is good as the snow depth in the Cascades helps us through our dry summers.

So how about the posters here who live in the UK and Europe (sorry about that as I don't know if the UK is still considered Europe geographically)? Are you as affected by any similar phenomenon?

TV anyone? https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/lifes...

My favorite English place!

MK wrote: "TV anyone? https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/lifes...

My favorite English place!"

So glad you posted this. I have made a note. I really enjoy his programmes.

MK wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: " the showers are steady in the shires but it remains very mild (17c), leaves are falling but no sign of any seasonal or colder weather..."

Even milder here in Paris. Fore..."

The UK is affected by the Gulf Stream. making it milder than it would otherwise be. So it is possible to have sub tropical gardens
even in parts of Scotland

https://www.gardenvisit.com/gardens/i...

giveusaclue wrote: "MK wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: " the showers are steady in the shires but it remains very mild (17c), leaves are falling but no sign of any seasonal or colder weather..."

Even milder here in ..."

yes, as a child i remember being told that wet and mostly cool Glasgow was level with snowbound and very chilly Edmonton in Canada as a sign of the mild climate. While the gulf stream doesnt create anything over the top, it does leave these islands in a milder state than their position in northern hemipshere would suggest. Ireland is even milder than Britain, though in terms of average temp not summers.

Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: " the showers are steady in the shires but it remains very mild (17c), leaves are falling but no sign of any seasonal or colder weather..."

Even milder here in Paris. Forecast of 24° l..."

i would love some colder weather, it seems like its been mild or warm forever in 2022, minus a short cold spell in January. global warming is here to stay

AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "MK wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: " the showers are steady in the shires but it remains very mild (17c), leaves are falling but no sign of any seasonal or colder weather..."

..."

But more rain?

My eyes are crossed and my plans to go to the library when it opened are history. My neighborhood (23,411) has been singled out during our resdistricting for City Council seats. We have our own local political mayhem. It's not enough here to be blue, some are trying to make us Navy Blue. There is a racial jusstice group that has targeted us (we are a peninsula, mostly white, mostly homeowners) and is trying to split us into two districts. It is a mess, and we are fighting back. I've just spent the a.m. counting the online "Keep us together" posts. There is a time crunch. must be done-by date. At this point I wish it were tomorrow!

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "MK wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: " the showers are steady in the shires but it remains very mild (17c), leaves are falling but no sign of any seasonal or colder ..."

more intense wetter spells are all part of the global warming pattern sadly, though yes, the rain does mean less sun...lol

AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "MK wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: " the showers are steady in the shires but it remains very mild (17c), leaves are falling but no sign of any..."

I meant more rain in Ireland!

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "MK wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: " the showers are steady in the shires but it remains very mild (17c), leaves are falling but n..."

yes, ireland has a lot more rain....

AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "MK wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: " the showers are steady in the shires but it remains very mild (17c), leav..."

Haha, well I'm glad we got that sorted AB.

Here’s a question to think about.
Without looking it up do you know which vertebrae species has the longest life span? How long do they live and where do they live?

(Please don’t post the answer if you look it up.)

CCCubbon wrote: "Here’s a question to think about.
Without looking it up do you know which vertebrae species has the longest life span? How long do they live and where do they live?..."

Having looked it up after my wrong guess, all I can say is, wow!

I'm still reading and finding interesting by David Rooney. I have read about Order starting with the sundial in the Roman Forum; Faith, the castle clock in Diyãr Bakr (in today's Turkey); Virtue: the hourglass of Temperance in Siena, and am about to start Markets with Amsterdam's stock exchange clock.
The 12 clocks are the starting point of each chapter and he then goes on to develop the notion with other examples.

As light reading, I've just finished the latest in Frances Brody's Kate Shackleton series, A Mansion for Murder.
The heroine is supposed widowed in the first world war. Not knowing exactly what happened to her husband and hoping to find out (or find him), she helps other people trying to trace missing soldiers. This leads to her founding a detective agency and in this latest book to investigating a murder, and industrial espionage, in a woollen mill.

and in the British Library Crime Classics, I'm reading and greatly enjoying Jumping Jenny by Anthony Berkeley. The clever amateur detective completely messes up the investigation! I'd previously read his The Poisoned Chocolates Case and Murder in the Basement.

CCCubbon wrote: "Here’s a question to think about.
Without looking it up do you know which vertebrae species has the longest life span? How long do they live and where do they live?

(Please don’t post the answer i..."

I have no idea, I expect it is one of the larger tortoise species, but that is probably too obvious and therefore almost certainly wrong. I won't look it up[, I'll follow this thread.
On an unrelated note, probably the single fact that sticks in my mind most clearly from Tim Birkhead's Bird Sense is that chickens have one near-sighted eye - to search the ground for grains etc, and one far-sighted one - to be on the lookout for predators.

@frustratedartist

Think I would have guess giant tortoise too but these live for far longer.

CCCubbon wrote: "Here’s a question to think about.
Without looking it up do you know which vertebrae species has the longest life span? How long do they live and where do they live?

(Please don’t post the answer i..."

I'm going to guess one of those sharks that live under the arctic ice.

Paul wrote: I'm going to guess one of those sharks that live under the arctic ice ..."

Do sharks have bones?

CCCubbon wrote: "@frustratedartist

Think I would have guess giant tortoise too but these live for far longer."

I also thought of the giant tortoise. Only: you wouldn't have asked this question if it had been that obvious.
So it couldn't be a land-dwelling animal.

Thank you for providing not only a fascinating discovery/learning experience, but also a lot of food for thought.

Thanks for the intro, gpfr, and for the tip on the letters of Emily Eden.

I’ve finished A Shabby Genteel Story, a 100-page novella of WM Thackeray, with a Cinderella-like theme, as there is an innocent young girl who is treated as a skivvy by her two older step-sisters and her own mother, and is never taken to dances, except that here the prince of whom she dreams is a cad. It had a dashed-off feel.

Thackeray then used it as a prequel to The Adventures of Philip on his way through the World shewing who robbed him, who helped him, and who passed him by. I’ll give it a try but if it’s just a continuation of Shabby Genteel I doubt I’ll make it through two volumes.

Who’d be a character in a Thackeray novel? George Osborne, you discover, is not the only one he kills at Waterloo.

Lljones wrote: "Paul wrote: I'm going to guess one of those sharks that live under the arctic ice ..."

Do sharks have bones?"


The jaw and teeth are bone, but the spinal column is cartilagenous but it has vertebra

We've been talking about Orwell: you can get for free a daily email serialising his work:
https://orwell.substack.com/
https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...

Gpfr wrote: " (I) also recommend Vaclav Havel Letters to Olga: June 1979-September 1982, transl. Paul Wilson, bought during a trip to Prague. Sentenced to four and a half years in prison in 1979, he was allowed to write to his wife once a week.."

WRT Havel - I have never forgotten a BBC documentary in which Havel was interviewed in his house, which was surrounded at the time by secret police who kept him under constant surveillance. Here's a striking clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngHld...

As for Rebus - perhaps it's the age of the series that is the problem, rather than the age of the character - but both appear to be running out of steam, unfortunately. Then again, a younger protagonist will not be overpowered so easily as a codger with emphysema - so the 'thriller' aspect is much constrained by the hero's physical condition. And we're not in Poirot/grey cells territory here, where he can solve murders without leaving his bed.

As it happens - I was also disappointed with the late Wexfords - I didn't think much of The Monster in the Box

giveusaclue wrote: "I have to say that whilst recent political events have been an absolute shambles, we are not the only country facing financial and economic problems."

No indeed - though I believe that I can say with some confidence that we are the only country (in the G7 anyway) whose leaders made the situation so much worse (in terms of exchange rate, gilts, mortgages etc.) that they were gone in seven weeks or so! 'Incompetence' doesn't even begin to cover it!

CCCubbon wrote: "@frustratedartist

Think I would have guess giant tortoise too but these live for far longer."

I guessed tortoise too...

Russell wrote: "Who’d be a character in a Thackeray novel? George Osborne, you discover, is not the only one he kills at Waterloo..."

A pity he got resurrected in time to inflict 'austerity' on most of us, then.

Quarry by Jane White

This is a forgotten British novel of the 1960s about three boys, two aged 17 and the other 15, who persuade a 12 year old boy to follow them to a cave in a quarry close to where they live, and tell him to stay there, which he does.

It’s a strange, disturbing and fascinating piece of literature.
The boy isn’t kidnapped, he is free to leave if he chooses, but he is in awe of the older boys, and does as they say.

The three older boys, Randy, Todd and Carter, are very much children of the 60s, their parents are out off touch with them, not really bothered that they are rarely at home, or what they do with their time. Communication between them is minimal. The adults are apathetic, the boys are bored. Though not quite sure what they will do with the younger boy, they see him as an experimental plaything.

‘The boy’, as he is known throughout the piece, has no name, and is vague whenever asked where he is from, and where his parents are.

After the boy goes wandering one day, but returns to the cave, the older trio build a cover and in effect imprison him, though this is done with mutual agreement.

Randy and Todd are approaching their final exams, soon they will join the status of adulthood. Their parents suggest various activities for the holiday, but that is met with indifference; they seem much happier playing childish games of pirates at the quarry.

But the intense atmosphere is building, and it is clear the current situation can’t last. We know it won’t end well. Rather than the boy, it is a young girl who is their first victim. She has been spying on them, and after a chase, she is run down by a motorbike.
The boy’s demise soon follows, in a remorseless scene, but there is little follow up, no grief, no guilt, no investigation, it is as if he never really existed.

It isn’t surprising that this novel shocked readers on its publication, it was compared to Lord of The Flies. Though the impact is less now, it still is a fascinating work.

Rather than it concerning the breakdown of society, I saw it more as dystopian, in that society has already broken down, and White delivers a warning as to what may now lie ahead. The adults have intentionally indistinct voices; they are characters on the periphery, simply going through the motions of their dull lives without direction, and with little of no concern for their children.

scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "I have to say that whilst recent political events have been an absolute shambles, we are not the only country facing financial and economic problems."

No indeed - though I beli..."

Quite

There are quite a few themes runnuing through The Soldier and the Gentlewoman, a 1932 novel by Welsh female writer Hilda Vaughan

In some superficial ways it is a welsh counterpart to the Anglo-Irish novels of Bowen or Keane, the large houses and the established classes on the fringes of Britain. However Vaughans West Wales is far more austere and calmer than the undercurrents of Southern Ireland and the tone is darker as well, levity is not in abundance.

In other ways it is a post- Great War novel that carefully hints at the damage done by the extreme loss of life, especially male life accross these islands. Gwen has lost her two brothers, while Dick suffers from various ailments linked to the trenches and seems at a loss of how to take in "a world without regiment".

Lastly is the feminist theme, subtle and not over done, where Gwen, who has looked after and maintained the family house during the war, sees the return of men to roles she had performed with aplomb. As a child she was an afterthought, her late brothers were to inherit and to lead, now they are gone, dead in the war and she is powerless again it seems.

West Wales is narrated as a damp and insular world, the big house embedded in the land and among the welsh speaking servant classes but its a realistic rather than a dark narrative of rural Wales and i'm enjoying it

scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "I have to say that whilst recent political events have been an absolute shambles, we are not the only country facing financial and economic problems."

No indeed - though I beli..."

we also have leaders who lie endlessly about our status in the G7 or EU or G20. They would have us believe the damaging and pointless brexit exercise has made us a better place not a poorer one and the emphasis on low unemployment is pure mendacity, when some "jobs" are zero hours, unreliable and almost casual.

scarletnoir wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "@frustratedartist

Think I would have guess giant tortoise too but these live for far longer."

I guessed tortoise too..."

i remember visiting the seychelles as a teenager where there were dozens of huge giant tortoises, these amazing beasts, stalking slowly over the sand or sat still under the shade of a tree, amazing things, especially as we had tortoises as a kid and these were big enough to ride on!

Gpfr wrote: "I'm still reading and finding interesting by David Rooney. I have read about Order starting with the sundial in the Roman..."

Thanks for About Time: A History of Civilization in Twelve Clocks. I've downloaded it from the library. I think it will work well for me in the car (now that I've accomplished that trick - if I could, I would be patting myself on the back).

I prefer some books in audio especially when the narrator is good. I have almost finished The Man Who Died Twice in preparation for #3. I have fallen in love with Joyce - who is the primary voice - she is a trip!

I have to find a bedtime mystery. I'm sure I have one somewhere among the piles.

My new non-fiction for my evening couch time is which I picked up from the library yesterday. Nothing like carving up countries and peoples to warm the cockles of European (mainly Brits (sorry, guys)) hearts.

AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "I have to say that whilst recent political events have been an absolute shambles, we are not the only country facing financial and economic problems."

No in..."

I think that is what most leaders do - lie. They tell easy stories for the so-many people who are happy to accept the stories. All one has to do is look at those here in the States cozying up to our diminishing, non-college (sorry, but mostly) whites (again mostly, men). Here it's grievance, grievance, grievance.

“There's a sucker born every minute.” -- P. T. Barnum

May I recommend signing up for the newsletter from https://hungerfordbookshop.co.uk/? Thanks to them, I have just added to my wishlist at book depository (for when it comes out in paperback in July). I don't usually go in for weird, but I will make an exception - unless someone here decides to read and report poorly on it.

While I'm at it, another book shop that has a nice newsletter is https://www.toppingbooks.co.uk/ in Ely.

No wonder that I will be found dead under a pile of books.

MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "I have to say that whilst recent political events have been an absolute shambles, we are not the only country facing financial and economic prob..."

it is quite alarming in the USA how the art of grievance has been mastered by the non college educated white male class. there are many perfectly valid greivances in the USA, where history has not been kind but i wouldnt include the non college educated whites(though as you say MK....they are very vocal) Unless you apply a marxist tinge and they are all victims of a capitalist society, although that hardly washes when the history of the USA was based upon poorer white immigration taking advantage of prospects and land taken from poor non-white natives.

An LRB article on Ireland made the thought provoking point, that many Irish benefited from being part of the British Empire, not just the anglo-irish or northern irishprotestant ascendency. The new lands offered places to emigrate to, at the detriment of the native peoples of these lands, while traders of any religion could use the empire to enrich themselves.

These are just observations, its a complex issue but sadly at the bottom of the imperial dungheap, were the original exploited, the native sons and daughters of the lands that were "colonised"

Speaking of the Irish - . It's only 1088 pages. I'm tempted but am concerned that my old arms would get to darned tired!

MK wrote: "Speaking of the Irish - . It's only 1088 pages. I'm tempted but am concerned that my old arms would get to ..."

i'm interested in Fintan O'Tooles new book about Ireland, always enjoyed his writing in The Irish Times

AB76 wrote: "MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "I have to say that whilst recent political events have been an absolute shambles, we are not the only country facing financial and ec..."

On Every Tide: The Making and Remaking of the Irish World was reviewed by Fintan O'Toole - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/21/bo...

MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "I have to say that whilst recent political events have been an absolute shambles, we are not the only country facing fin..."

thanks

Evening everyone.
Yes, Paul had it
The longest lifespan is that of the Greenland shark which lives deep in the Arctic waters. A Danish physicist found a way to test the lens crystalline protein in the eye and found that some were well into their sixth century which I found quite amazing.
Not good looking - I will post a picture on photos - worm like crustaceans tend to attach themselves to the corneas rendering the shark almost blind.
They smell strongly of urine due to a large concentration of urea and the flesh is poisonous to humans if eaten raw.
As well as being found around Iceland and Greenland the have been found near France, Portugal and Scotland - as we do not know very much about them they might be anywhere deep and cold enough.
I read that they do not reach sexual maturity until they are around 150 years old.
I learned about the Greenland shark from The Golden Mole by Katherine Rundell. So far I have enjoyed The Wombat, The Greenland Shark and The Giraffe - 19 more to go but I ration myself to one a day!

This snippet displays why I love Kate Atkinson (from Shrines of Gaiety):

"Gwendolen," she introduced herself, offering her hand to Constable Cobb, who shook it limply and echoed "Gwendolen" hesitantly, as though simply pronouncing her name might put him in jeopardy of untoward intimacy. He has no sisters, she thought.

@Andy
My old border terrier hates the rain and will turn tail and go home if he decides it is too heavy. Labrador Lily used to love to swim like your dog does but my dog water loving fanatic was an Old English Sheepdog who would make a beeline for any wet place. Devil to get dry - all that long hair.
I don’t think that I could read Quarry, too much for me. I looked up to see that she wrote several other books which are out of print. Don’t know why I was surprised that it was a female author.

Really loved the moss under the trees. Spagnum? Not sure of spelling

Lljones wrote: "This snippet displays why I love Kate Atkinson (from Shrines of Gaiety)..."

Lovely!

CCCubbon wrote: "The longest lifespan is that of the Greenland shark which lives deep in the Arctic waters ..."

Really interesting!
And now we can test family & friends 😀

Further to what was being said about what affects the weather and the possibility of a cold winter:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...