Christian Goodreaders discussion

When it comes to romantic relationships in ChristFic, here's something to think about.

"Unequal Yoking" in Christian Fiction?

https://wp.me/pwlMY-bpv

If you marry a non believer, you're going to be dealing with problems all the rest of your life. If you have a lot of lost people for friends, that's just asking for trouble, and for sin to take hold of your mind and heart, too.
Being unequally yoked is rebellion against what God told us. If two lost people get married, and then one gets born again, well, the saved person may NOT leave them, but if the lost person leaves, we are supposed to let them go.

Nancy wrote: "If you have a lot of lost people for friends, that's just asking for trouble..."

There are also many Christians who get married to Christians and have poor marriages with problems for the rest of their lives. And Jesus shared His personal time and love with lost somebodies, eating and drinking with them and spending so much time in their company that the religious people of His day pointed accusing fingers at Him, saying, "Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners." He even purposely chose Judas Iscariot to be one of the twelve men in closest relationship with Him. (Yikes!)

While it may be true that getting "unequally yoked is rebellion," not every Christian believes the same thing about what being "unequally yoked" actually is or what it means.

I often imagine that if Christ were walking the earth as a flesh-and-blood man today, a lot of folks in the church would look at the ways He'd often spend His time, who He'd spent it with, and plenty of other unexpected choices He'd make—and those folks in the church would judge Christ to be a poor Christian by their standards. 🙂 Yet, one can say His example shows that when the light is real, it shines in the midst of darkness, not having to let itself be dimmed by it. Indeed, the light wouldn't be too effective at shining in darkness if it stayed away from darkness. Christ's example illustrates how being set apart is chiefly a matter of one's heart, rather than staying away from lost people and treating them as if they're unworthy of getting too close to the light.

Even so, making one theological argument or another about friendships and marriage isn't the point of the blog post I wrote (the one I shared the link for, above). As I said in the post, neither is it my point to tell Christians who they should or shouldn’t marry. Different Christians have different beliefs in regard to what the Bible says, and it isn't that some Christians are reading and studying the Bible and striving to make right choices while other Christians simply aren't. 😄

The point of my blog post is to address a matter concerning Christian Fiction. I myself run into things I don't agree with in Christian novels sometimes (including some books really popular among a lot of Christians), but I don't assume, "Well, the author must just be rebellious," or "The author just must not know the Bible as well as I do" or other such presumptions. I think being a good author and/or a good reader of Christian Fiction takes grace, and my hope is to help fellow ChristFic lovers "grow in grace," as the Bible says.

Thanks so much for reading the blog post and commenting, Nancy! 😊

After prayer and a lot of thought, here is my reply: There are also many Christians who get married to Christians and have poor marriages with problems for the rest of their lives.~
Because they're either not born again, or the one causing problems is walking in rebellion against God.~
And Jesus shared His personal time and love with lost somebodies, eating and drinking with them and spending so much time in their company that the religious people of His day pointed accusing fingers at Him, saying, "Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners."
~Jesus was able to save those lost people, we are not. Jesus was perfect, we are not.~He even purposely chose Judas Iscariot to be one of the twelve men in closest relationship with Him. (Yikes!)
~No one knows why, and we need to be careful about what conclusions we come up with.~

While it may be true that getting "unequally yoked is rebellion," ~(it is)~ not every Christian believes the same thing about what being "unequally yoked" actually is or what it means.
~That could be due to them quenching the Spirit, or following their flesh, which profits nothing, or they could be lost, not really saved. When a Christian does not agree with the bible, they are in rebellion.~

I often imagine that if Christ were walking the earth as a flesh-and-blood man today, a lot of folks in the church would look at the ways He'd often spend His time, who He'd spent it with, and plenty of other unexpected choices He'd make—and those folks in the church would judge Christ to be a poor Christian by their standards.
~Not if they listened to Him, and followed Him. The ones complaining about Jesus were those who followed the traditions of men, or who didn't even know what the bible said,or the simplicity of the bible~
🙂 Yet, one can say His example shows that when the light is real, it shines in the midst of darkness, not having to let itself be dimmed by it. Indeed, the light wouldn't be too effective at shining in darkness if it stayed away from darkness. Christ's example illustrates how being set apart is chiefly a matter of one's heart, rather than staying away from lost people and treating them as if they're unworthy of getting too close to the light.
~That may be true, or it may not be THE reason. Jesus also said to abstain from all appearance of evil, to be careful lest you be caught in a snare, and to be not highminded. To examine yourself, If the Lord truly leads you to go to a strip joint or
to witness to fornicators or drug abusers, then go, but only with the intent to tell them they are going to Hell, but they CAN escape. Speak the truth in LOVE, like Jesus always did, but he spoke the truth. The
truth enraged the pharisees, scribes, and others. Enraged them SO much when they were told they were wrong, that they plotted to KILL him. ~

Even so, making one theological argument or another about friendships and marriage isn't the point of the blog post I wrote (the one I shared the link for, above). As I said in the post, neither is it my point to tell Christians who they should or shouldn’t marry. Different Christians have different beliefs in regard to what the Bible says, and it isn't that some Christians are reading and studying the Bible and striving to make right choices while other Christians simply aren't. ~Yes, it is, because if they KNEW and
loved the truth, they would make good choices. Maybe not make them popular with the lukewarm crowd, but so what?~

The point of my blog post is to address a matter concerning Christian Fiction. I myself run into things I don't agree with in Christian novels sometimes ~Nadine a lot of Christian fiction today is so unchristlike and peppered with caveats and excuses as smokecreens, that few there be who speak out against error. FEW. They've been told to "not make waves" and stop "offending". 13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. ~~
(including some books really popular among a lot of Christians), but I don't assume, "Well, the author must just be rebellious," or "The author just must not know the Bible as well as I do" or other such presumptions. I think being a good author and/or a good reader of Christian Fiction takes grace, and my hope is to help fellow ChristFic lovers "grow in grace," ~define grace-there are several definitions, at least 15. as the Bible says.
Nadine, we are to be discerning, to use the gifts GOD gave us in the fashion HE wants, not what we want or would rather do. Christians are also to judge righteously, according to the truth only in the bible. The Christian life is simple, yet very complex.
Let me make an observation, and I see this all the time now, and it makes me very sad for them, and very angry at the devil: Lukewarmness is the order of the day amongst most Christian communities. Lukewarmness is an abomination to God. ~~

Nancy wrote: "After prayer and a lot of thought, here is my reply..."

It's dangerous to think that just because someone may be having problems in a relationship, it's because they're either not Christian or because they're "walking in rebellion against God." Problems in relationships come to all different people, Christians included, because people are human, and humanity has flaws. Even people who love God are human beings with flaws. If a Christian thinks, "As long as I and all the other Christians in my life are not rebellious against God, all of our relationships will always work out great," it may be an inexperienced thought at best, possibly a prideful thought at worst.

Every human experiences some failure in life. Sometimes failure comes in the form of failed relationships, and it isn't a matter of, "If we both would've just been better Christians and tried harder, this relationship would've been great." Having faith in Christ, doing the best we can, and even praying harder doesn't exempt us from having flaws, from having weaknesses or failures. That's why we need grace. This principle is reflected in 2 Corinthians 12:8-9: "Concerning this thing I [the apostle Paul] pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.'" ("Grace" in this verse is the Greek word charis, which means "graciousness, especially the divine influence upon the heart.") We need grace because flaws, weaknesses, failures, etc. are a part of everyone's lives. Christians included.

Yet, being flawed doesn't mean we can't strive to follow Christ's example in relationships, including with people who don't know Him. It doesn't mean we have to stay away from lost people because "Jesus was perfect, we are not." I mean, it might have been a pretty tall order in Matthew when Jesus said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect," 😄 but conversely Jesus didn't say, "Don't try to follow My example, because no matter how hard you try, you'll never be as perfect as Me." In fact, rather than going around claiming perfection of Himself, He called the Father perfect instead. And when someone addressed Jesus as "Good Master/Teacher" in Matthew 19, Jesus asked, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God." Yet, again, Jesus didn't say people have to be perfect to follow His example. In fact, He encouraged His followers with the thought that they would do even greater things than what they'd seen Him do. John 14:12: "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

As for saying "no one knows why" Jesus chose to be in relationship with Judas Iscariot, it's apparent that Jesus knew about Judas from the start ("Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?", John 6:70) and that He did it because He knew His purpose and that the Scriptures had to come to pass: "Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled" (John 17:12). I'm not saying I would advise folks to go around looking for more Judas Iscariots for themselves (Yikes! 😅) but rather to follow the principle of Christ's example: being wise, knowing your particular purpose, and realizing the purpose of each relationship you form with someone, whether they're a Christian or not.

I also think it's dangerous, and likely prideful, if a Christian thinks that if anyone doesn't come up with all the same conclusions as they do about every Bible verse, then the other person must just be quenching the Spirit, or following their flesh, or must not really be saved. Countless Christians have been prayerfully reading and studying the Bible for nearly thousands of years now. (I mean The Holy Bible in the form that many Christians have it now: a book that wasn't organized and compiled into sixty-six selected books until hundreds of years after Jesus lived. The early Christians didn't have "the Bible" with the Gospels about Jesus' life and the New Testament epistles in it. Early Christians only had the Septuagint, which was comprised of books from the Old Testament.) For generations, different Christians have come up with different conclusions on Scripture, and it isn't because some people must just be "better Christians" than others. Even the most dedicated and devout of Jewish people in Jesus' day didn't agree about everything they studied in the Law; that's why there were different Jewish sects such as the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes, etc. who sometimes argued with each other. But how prideful would it be for one sect to say, "Anyone who doesn't believe exactly what our one group believes about everything in the Law isn't really Jewish"? I think the same is too often true when some Christians think, "Anyone who doesn't believe exactly what our one Christian group believes about every verse in the Bible isn't really Christian." There are literally tens of thousands of different church denominations today, and even Christians back in New Testament times didn't agree about everything. The NT epistles indicate how even the first apostles didn't always agree about Christianity, but that didn't make any of them any less saved. They were all different, flawed human beings who were praying, studying, doing their best to figure things out—not always agreeing, but always in need of God's grace.

Now, concerning the point that "Jesus also said to abstain from all appearance of evil...and to be not highminded..."—that "appearance of evil" quote isn't what Jesus said but what Paul said, in his first letter to the Thessalonians, in chapter 5. (It was also Paul who made references to people being "highminded," in Romans and in both the NT letters he wrote to Timothy.) Yes, every Christian should do their best to be exemplary in their actions, to "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in Heaven" (Matthew 5:16). The unfortunate reality that comes along with that is, even when Christians seek to do good, it's going to be "the appearance of evil" to someone. Much as I said the other day, even Christ couldn't avoid people calling Him names and thinking His actions were wrong ("Gluttonous! Winebibber! Friend of publicans and sinners!") when He chose to be in relationship and show love to lost people. But that didn't stop Him.

"If the Lord truly leads you to go to a strip joint...then go, but only with the intent to tell them they are going to Hell." Not all modern-day Christians may realize the sensual act it was in Jesus' day when a woman would kiss and wash a man's feet and dry them with her own hair (hey, that's still sensual by today's standards too). But when a "sinner" woman used that intimate behavior with Jesus in Luke 7, even applying her body ointment/oil to Jesus' feet, He didn't look at her and say, "You sinful harlot. You're going to hell." Instead, He pointed out how she showed more love to Him than any of the other folks in the Pharisee's house that day. While other people there were looking down on both the woman and Jesus and thinking, "If He were a prophet, He would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner," Jesus appreciated her behavior toward Him and told her, "Your sins are forgiven." He knew her heart when other people didn't.

So, I think it would be prideful to walk into just about any "joint" with the presumption that the folks in there must all be "going to Hell" if you don't personally know what's in all those people's hearts. It may be easy to single out a strip joint or a drug house and assume, "Anyone in there is going to hell because people sin there." But guess where else people sin? In the church. Because all people are human, and all sin is sin. A lot of people, Christians included, struggle with the sin of gluttony/overeating, but does that mean a person is going to hell because they eat too much? A lot of people, Christians included, deal with the sin of pride. Even seeing the world from a prideful outlook is sinful, as the Bible says that having "a proud look/haughty eyes" is "an abomination" to God (Proverbs 6:16-17). But does that mean all the people in the church are going to hell because so much pride is in the church? Christians can't say, "Well, our sins aren't as bad as the people's sins in strip joints and stuff," because sinning and breaking even one of God's laws is just as bad as breaking all of God's laws. "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all" (James 2:10).

If people "KNEW and loved the truth, they would make good choices." No, not always. Every single human, Christians and otherwise, make some bad choices. David, "a man after God's own heart," coveted and took another man's wife, and so that David could keep her, he purposely sent her husband off to die in battle. Peter, one of the closest men to Jesus, denied knowing Jesus three times. Even Paul, who knew and loved the truth, said in Romans 7, "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice... O wretched man that I am!" The Bible is full of other examples of people who knew God and still messed up. Thank God that He's the One Who knows people's hearts and that His grace is sufficient for human beings' failings. Otherwise, even people who know and love the truth wouldn't stand a chance, because they're still flawed humans who'll mess up sometimes. For them to think otherwise about themselves would be prideful.

Still...even with all of this said, the blog post I shared is about reading and writing in the genre of Christian Fiction. (I'm not sure if you actually read the blog post and know exactly what it says or not, but I gave it the benefit of the doubt since you commented here. 🙂) When I said the other day that I myself run into things I don't agree with in Christian novels sometimes, I wasn't only talking about "a lot of Christian fiction today" that is "so unchristlike." I'm also referring to some older ChristFic books that many Christians consider to be ChristFic classics now, so to speak. Hey, there may even be Christians who disagree with the novel that effectively launched the Christian Fiction genre as we know it: Love Comes Softly by Janette Oke. (I say the genre "as we know it" now because Christian Fiction has only been its own recognized category on the book market for about forty years.) Some Christians might dislike Oke's novel because the hero, Clark Davis, marries a woman who doesn't share his faith, Marty Claridge. Some Christians could therefore think that the novel is "unchristlike," while for others, the story is a beautiful reflection of God's love. For the record, I personally love the book for my own reasons, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Christians included, because again, not all Christians think, believe, or feel the same way about everything, including those who earnestly study the Bible.

And even if I didn't personally love that book of Janette Oke's, I could still respect the author as a fellow Christian and consider her work with grace. As I said, it's my hope to help fellow ChristFic lovers "grow in grace," and I mean that in the sense of the Bible verse I quoted it from, 2 Peter 3:18. The word "grace" in that verse is the same Greek word as the verse in 2 Corinthians 12 about God's grace being sufficient: charis, meaning "graciousness." I believe it's important for Christians to think and deal graciously with each other, knowing that we're all flawed people, all as much in need of God's grace as anyone else. 😊

I will comment more later, but after a quick scan of your lengthy reply, which I will get to, let me ask you this: Does God allow sin into His presence?
Are we going to be held accountable for the knowledge which we have been given, by reading the bible?
Did Jesus tell us to enter in at the strait gate, and that there will be few who find it?
Did Jesus tell us to deny ourselves, and follow Him?
Did Jesus tell us that if we do this: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
We will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
Did Jesus say lukewarmness is disgusting to Him?
Did Jesus tell us to study to shew thyself approved unto God? Why did the Lord tell Christians to know what the bible says?
So we will stop sinning(no, no one NEVER sins) and so we will stop making others to sin (that's very bad to use your liberty as a cloak of maliciousness) .
Did Jesus tell us to abstain from all appearance of evil?

Nadine, Christians of today abuse God's grace by practicing nominal Christianity, which is a polite way of saying they want to keep one foot in the hog trough, and one toe near the Lord's banquet table.
Grace is sooo terribly misunderstood, and abused.
It's not easy to live a Christian life. IF it is easy for you, and you've not been ostracized, hated, called names, and rejected and despised.
We abuse grace! When we over emphasize one truth in the Bible at the expense of other truths, heresy is not far behind. Perhaps worse than theological heresy is the affects abusing grace will have on our relationship with God.!

Nancy wrote: "Nadine, Christians of today abuse God's grace..."

Indeed, Nancy, certain people abuse various aspects of Scripture, and grace is sometimes one of them.

Paul addresses the issue of abusing grace, particularly at the end of Romans chapter 5 and continuing into the next chapter: "For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more... What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!"

At the same time, it would be foolish for someone to think, "Well, then. Because some other people abuse grace, I'm just not going to have any." 😅 Although the Bible admonishes Christians against abusing grace, it doesn't say to stop having it. Neither does it say to have less of it. Rather, Peter encouraged Christians to "grow in grace." The word "grow" in 2 Peter 3:18 is the Greek word auxanō, which means to increase, to enlarge. And again, "grace" in this verse means graciousness.

It's very possible to be careful not to abuse grace and to also grow/increase/enlarge in grace at the same time. Growing in an important aspect of biblical truth does not have to be at the expense of the rest of the truth. Christians can have wisdom, moderation, and grow in more than one way at the same time.

Now. I'm not sure if you read my previous comments yet. But I'll admit that in sharing my blog post in this group, I figured ahead of time there'd be a chance that the comments on the post might fly off topic from the blog post, or miss the point of the blog post altogether. 😄 So I want to reiterate my point in posting the blog: Because different Christians have different understandings of the Scriptures they've learned and studied, I want to encourage fellow readers and authors of Christian Fiction to keep that in mind as they read and write, and to grow in grace. Or in other words, to increase in graciousness.

It's nothing new when Christians study and understand Scripture differently. Again, it's been happening ever since the first Christians walked the earth. It happened among the first church fathers whose writings (some of their writings, anyway) are now compiled in the Bible. If those early Christians could disagree sometimes but still uphold grace as important and grow accordingly, so can readers and authors of Christian Fiction. 🙂

Speak the truth in LOVE, like Jesus always did, but he spoke the truth.
...you said..."You sinful harlot, you're going to hell" (you left out the part where I said people should have the intent of telling lost sinners HOW to escape Hell, and how to live in Heaven for eternity. Jesus said:47] Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
[48] And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
[49] And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
[50] And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
You said that appearance of evil quote isnt'what Jesus said, but what Paul said. Nadine,
Jesus spoke THROUGH Paul, the scriptures say: [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
whatever Paul said, it was because he YIELDED his mind and heart to the Holy Spirit. Then he wrote.

you said: rather than Jesus claiming perfection of Himself, He called the Father perfect. Nadine, I know you
know this: Jesus is God, God is perfect. Jesus NEVER sinned. Jesus said No one is good but One, that is God.
He also said: John 10:30 - I and my Father are one. and: John 14:9
King James Version

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Jesus also lovingly but firmly and truthfully said: [5] Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
[11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
[12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
[13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
[14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Nancy wrote: "Speak the truth in LOVE, like Jesus always did, but he spoke the truth..."

Yes, I know that Jesus is God. 😊 My point is that Jesus didn't go around boasting in His perfection as something not even worth aspiring to, as if to say, "You all can never be as perfect as Me, so don't even bother trying to follow My example." 😄

And yes, Paul told Timothy that all scripture is given by inspiration of God. Paul also said in the previous verse, 2 Timothy 3:15, that Timothy knew the scriptures since his childhood. But of course, the New Testament didn't exist during Timothy's childhood. Again, the early church didn't have the New Testament. Their scriptures were the Septuagint, with books from what we now call the Old Testament. What we call the New Testament that's compiled into selected books in our modern-day Bible didn't come until hundreds of years after Paul and Timothy's day. So it's reasonable to consider that their idea of "scripture" was pretty different way back then. Besides, it wouldn't do justice to Jesus' words to attribute every quote in the Bible directly to Him just because a writer wrote it in a biblical book. "Jesus said 'Give stong drink unto him that is ready to perish.'" "Jesus said 'Everything is meaningless, completely meaningless!'" It would lead to confusion if people treated Bible verses that way.

Again, though, veering into an entire layout of the history of the church and how the Bible was put together would be way off topic. 😅 So to reiterate my point in sharing the post from my blog: I want to encourage fellow readers and authors of Christian Fiction to grow in grace. To increase in graciousness as they deal with the ChristFic genre. ❤️

(Oh! And P.S., Nancy: Up there in my longest comment of the century, I didn't quote all the scriptures in full and I didn't recopy everything in your replies because Goodreads only allows 12,000 characters in a comment, or the post won't post. 😄 I was already teetering at the character limit, and breaking up comments into separate posts in a thread can get confusing because people don't always "scroll up" to make sure they've read all the previous parts. I quoted you in snippets to save space, not to leave out or discount anything you've said. Just so you know I read all of it! 😁)

Nadine wrote: "When it comes to romantic relationships in ChristFic, here's something to think about.

"Unequal Yoking" in Christian Fiction?

"

Thank you for this post. I had always been taught that unequally yoked referred to marriage also. But you brought up an important point that at this time period, and the centuries until recent history, women and men had no say in who they married. It was up to their parents if they married or who they married. :) I also had not thought about that aspect of Love Comes Softly which is one of my favorite books from my childhood.

Melissa (ladybug) wrote: "Thank you for this post. I had always been taught..."

Oh, you're welcome, Melissa! Christian Fiction is still a relatively young genre (as far as today's book market goes). And I imagine much of its readers started getting into the genre back when there were only a handful of traditional Christian publishers publishing a relative handful of Christian authors. So there wasn't exactly an abundance of diversity on Christian bookstores' fiction shelves in terms of culture, denominations, and more. 😄

While traditional ChristFic publishing has declined on the market since its "heyday" of the '80s and '90s, it's also made efforts toward becoming more diverse. And with the way independent publishing has been growing, ChristFic readers have started becoming exposed to more kinds of Christian novels than were available some decades ago. Yet, even with more authors getting published (one way or another) in the genre now, I think it can still be easy for some ChristFic lovers not to consider how huge and diverse Christianity itself is, with so many different theological viewpoints.

So I hope to help fellow lovers of the genre to be more mindful of that as they read and write, and to be gracious with each other. Thanks so much for reading the post and commenting!

Also, Love Comes Softly is yet on my all-time favorites list. It's been some years since I read the series. But as I revisited Book One (tee-HEE! My old copy of the original paperback!) to write my blog post, you'd better believe all the warm and nostalgic feels came rushing back. ❤️

You're seeming to confuse boasting and pride with being helpful, and having a sincere desire to speak the truth in love. That's ok though. I understand.

The Christian fiction book genre has been in existence since the 1600s, so it isn't new. I understand you're separating today's CF from the clean, KJ bible based Christian fiction. But still, to be accurate, CF has been around a long LONG time.
A Pilgrim's Progress, written in 1678 by John Bunyan, is generally considered to be the first Christian novel (and indeed, one of the first novels in the English language
Lew Wallace's Ben-Hur, published in 1880, is credited with kicking off the modern genre of Christian Fiction.

Personally, the diversity in "Christian" fiction has become appalling. There are hundreds of denominations, but only ONE way to enter Heaven. One.
God limited that, provided Jesus for us, (John 3:16-21, Romans 10:9-13) and we should want to be circumspect in what we recommend as Christian reading materials.
Some of the books published today are not Christian fiction by even a broad, liberal definition.

Nancy wrote: "The Christian fiction book genre has been in existence since the 1600s, so it isn't new. I understand you're separating today's CF from the clean, KJ bible based Christian fiction. But still, to be accurate, CF has been around a long LONG time."

If, when we speak of "Christian fiction," we mean "fiction written by a Christian author," then yes, in the Western literary tradition, CF has been around essentially as long as "modern" fiction itself has (which is ever since the 1500s). If we mean "fiction mainly written to convey an explicitly Christian religious message," it also goes back a very long way (Bunyan's A Pilgrim's Progress is certainly an example).

If we use the term in the way the modern book trade uses it, though, the body of books we're talking about is much smaller, and all more recent. In that sense, it means "fiction published by presses belonging to the Evangelical Christian Publishers Assn., and eligible to be sold in stores belonging to the Christian Booksellers Assn." (founded in 1974 and 1950, respectively). Both associations have strict content guidelines governing what they're allowed to publish or sell.

Some older fiction would meet these guidelines as well (for example, Ben Hur would, and I think the novels by Harold Bell Wright would, though I haven't read them myself). Works like these don't differ from the later ones so much in a literary sense as in the way they were marketed (which, of course, is what the book trade sense of terms is all about!). Older novels, like Wallace's, were published by general publishers and aimed to reach a general audience. The later CBA/ECPA "Christian fiction" comes strictly from publishers which publish only religiously-themed material, and is marketed only to an evangelical Christian readership, as an "in-group" literature.

These distinctions, as such, don't say anything about the quality of the material in the books. It's just helpful, in literary discussion, to understand what different people in the conversation mean by the terms they're using. Hope that's helpful!

Nancy wrote: "You're seeming to confuse boasting and pride with being helpful..."

Hello again, Nancy! 😊

It's possible for people to have prideful thoughts or actions and to still love others and to sincerely mean to be helpful. Humans would be in a bad way if we needed to be 100% flaw-free before we could have and show love to each other. 😅 With that said, in case you might have misunderstood, my references to pride are meant to be taken as references for general reflection in regard to the discussion, not as a pointed finger at anyone in the discussion.

And, no, I'm not "separating today's CF from the clean, KJ bible based Christian fiction," and neither am I saying that Christian Fiction itself is a new thing. I've read and quite enjoyed Ben-Hur (I enjoyed the updated version by Lew Wallace's great-great-granddaughter as well, Carol Wallace, though I prefer the 1880 version overall 🙂 ). And the oldest book I have and love that I consider to be ChristFic (even though the story is told in the form of an epic poem rather than the style of a novel) was originally published in 1667 by John Milton: Paradise Lost.

Even so, I don't consider Christian Fiction to have started with books by Milton, Bunyan, Wallace, or even any number of "nameless" Christian storytellers around the world whose stories could have been unpublished, little-known, or otherwise could have been lost to history. I personally consider Christian Fiction not to have started with written books but to have started with stories spoken aloud, when Christ the storyteller conveyed spiritual concepts by speaking fictional stories: parables. Granted, as far as specific religions go, Jesus was a Jewish man rather than a Christian, and no, Jesus—and Christians for well over a thousand years after Jesus' time—didn't have a King James Bible to base any of their stories on. But I consider the fiction genre that now bears the name of Christ to have started with Christ Himself and His parables.

The "separating" I do between ChristFic from Christ's time all the way to the 21st century has to do with the book industry, not with any literal age of Christian Fiction itself. That's why I said "Christian Fiction has only been its own recognized category on the book market for about forty years" or so, and that "Christian Fiction is still a relatively young genre (as far as today's book market goes)," with BISAC numbers and whatnot that make book genres/categories specific and official on the market. For many years across the book industry, "Christian fiction" was just "fiction," there with all the other fiction. In various countries outside of the United States, that's still the case. Some countries (or some publishers, bookstores, etc. within the countries) have a separate genre for the Christian Fiction books there. Others don't, and there are many Christian readers around the world who don't even know an actual genre called "Christian Fiction" exists anywhere. They're just glad to come across fiction with Christian messages whenever they happen to, in the midst of all the other fiction they find. 😀

While I make the market distinction in terms of genre/category, I don't judge or prejudge the spiritual quality or value of Christian Fiction stories by which year or century they were written or otherwise told in. There was wonderful ChristFic written in the past, and there's still wonderful ChristFic being written today.

As for the blog post I started this discussion thread for, the tens of thousands of different church denominations aren't the point of the post, and the one way to heaven isn't the topic. Any more about that should best be taken to a different discussion on that matter. 😄 Again, the point of my blog post is to hopefully help ChristFic authors and readers to grow in grace as they read and write. Different Christians having different theological and doctrinal viewpoints has been an issue ever since Christianity first started, and our need to be gracious with each other hasn't gone away or lessened since then. ❤️

Werner wrote: "If, when we speak of "Christian fiction," we mean "fiction written by a Christian author," then yes..."

Side note: I just discovered Harold Bell Wright a few months ago! Added one of his novels to my TBR list. 😀

Nadine wrote: "Side note: I just discovered Harold Bell Wright a few months ago! Added one of his novels to my TBR list. 😀"

Whenever you read it, Nadine, I'll be interested in your review!

Some of the comments on this thread relate to broader aspects of Christian fiction than "unequal yoking." Those participating in or reading this discussion might also be interested in this thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... .

Werner wrote: "Whenever you read it, Nadine, I'll be interested in your review! Some..."

Thanks for the heads-up, Werner! 😊