The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

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Dinah Maria Mulock Craik
2022/23 Group Reads - Archives
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Olive - Week 2
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I was surprised that Olive was so shocked at hearing she was "deformed". I would have thought she would have overheard other comments about this, especially since she was always quietly in the background.
I predicted that Sara would ditch Charles, maybe that means Olive will have a chance at him someday. Sara seemed to be a typical young woman, nice enough to Olive, but not seeing the world in the ultra-romantic way Olive did.
Captain Rothesay has become very sinister. Yet Olive is devoted to him. Actually she is devoted to everyone in her life!
I predicted that Sara would ditch Charles, maybe that means Olive will have a chance at him someday. Sara seemed to be a typical young woman, nice enough to Olive, but not seeing the world in the ultra-romantic way Olive did.
Captain Rothesay has become very sinister. Yet Olive is devoted to him. Actually she is devoted to everyone in her life!

The author needed a plot point to make Olive realise that she is different, and to have her religious moment - okay. It's just not very well constructed.
As far as religion, the very beginning of this section says that Olive knew about death but not immortality or something like that. But later it seems she knows about Heaven and traditional Christian concepts. Church is never mentioned here, but it would have been a part of the family's life, I noticed that last week too. Maybe it was so obvious, it went without saying.
I see a parallel between Sara and Gwynne's upcoming marriage and Rotheshay's and Sybilla's.
Both of them fell suddenly in love with a pretty young thing.
I have a dreadful feeling that Rothesay is not going to come home again-because he can't. A railway accident?
My heart goes out to Olive, as always. She is really getting a raw deal out of life!
Both of them fell suddenly in love with a pretty young thing.
I have a dreadful feeling that Rothesay is not going to come home again-because he can't. A railway accident?
My heart goes out to Olive, as always. She is really getting a raw deal out of life!

Yes, I thought so too! Surely it's the hostess's duty to make sure all the young ladies have partners? And why was Olive there on her own, anyway? Surely a girl of 16 is chaperoned at these things? Obviously we must suppose the author knows the protocol of her own era, but it seems very odd that a young girl should be making her own way home after dark, even if it is only next door.
Angus's visit to the Gwynnes seems a bit odd, too - he hasn't seen Mrs G for thirty years, but he's so sure she'll invite him to stay that he arranges for his post to be directed there? And she persuades her son to lend him an enormous sum of money to finance a business venture? It rather strains credulity.
Is there a hint that Harold might not be her husband's son, do you think? Perhaps the mysterious Archibald's, whose ring she wears? I assume he was the man she was previously engaged to.

So many things in this novel do ... First of all, for me, are the characters. From the beginning, I was confused by Olive's characterisation which seemed to me inconsistent- but that could be because she was a child. But now the inconsistencies include her mother and her father. They seem to be different people from one chapter to the next - there is no "core" personality to which I can relate.
... which takes much of the enjoyment out of my reading this novel. I will go on, but without enthusiasm. I will take this novel as an object of study to find out what makes a second-rate novel, as compared to the acknowledged masterpieces of the period that we read more often.
... this does not mean that I limit myself to the 'canon'. There are (re)discoveries to be made, to be sure. (Remember that Gaskell was almost forgotten once.) Not so long ago, I participated in a group read that surprised us all agreeably - the second-rated novel by a second-rated author. But there's a lot of chaff to go through to find a grain of wheat.
sabagrey wrote: "I will take this novel as an object of study to find out what makes a second-rate novel, as compared to the acknowledged masterpieces of the period that we read more often."
To be honest, yes. I enjoyed the book in general, but there were several places where I thought "This might be why this author isn't as popular as others."
Olive had an active imagination as a small child. She still has it, but I would have liked more examples of it. Would have added some depth to her overall "people-pleasing" demeanor.
To be honest, yes. I enjoyed the book in general, but there were several places where I thought "This might be why this author isn't as popular as others."
Olive had an active imagination as a small child. She still has it, but I would have liked more examples of it. Would have added some depth to her overall "people-pleasing" demeanor.

He “my deared” her into her grave.
wonderful formulation ... who knows, if the author could have left her bigotry behind, maybe she would have written some good satire?

What do you mean by 'bigotry' here? I haven't noticed anything in particular so far that would qualify as such.

maybe not the right word here? I'm no English native speaker, so not always sure of meanings ... just forget it.

If that was Mary Cholmondeley's Diana Tempest, after seeing how the Victorian group enjoyed that book, I helped push for her novel Red Pottage to be the Reading the 20th Century's Victober read this year.

it was ;-) - but what do you mean by "Reading the 20th Century's Victober read"?

Please do! That would be wonderful timing for me! I would definitely participate here as I love and prefer the weekly discussion schedule used here. The RTTC has one thread and sometimes people read the book before, during and after that month and just post when they finish. I'd do that there whenever I finish with the weekly reads here.

Victoner is a celebration of Victorian literature by reading VICtorian books during ocTOBER. There is a Goodreads Group devoted to it: https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...
The Reading the 20th Century (RTTC) Goodreads Group also does a Victorian novel each October as a mini-celebration. Its a flexible group as it involves a GR group devoted to reading 20th Century novels during the 21st Century reading a 19th Century novel.
Roman Clodia, the RTTC moderator hosting the Victober read has opened the thread for it already: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Excuse the nonsense comments but Roman Clodia created the thread right when Goodreads crashed about 3 weeks ago

In many ways this novel was a missed opportunity because the elements relating to Olive and her struggles to rise above adversity are well worth pursuing. However some of the plot structures are so telegraphed ( eg Sara and her seafaring fiancé and the gambling Captain) that the only suspense lies beneath the floorboards. Also the two boys in the field gets rather tedious. Lionel may be Olive’s only real friend but why is his sniggering brother always behind the fence?
Olive herself seems to vary in character from absolute naivety eg in not realising about her deformity until she is sixteen, to being the fountain of knowledge eg when advising Sara about constancy in relationships.
I will persevere because this new author for me deserves to have at least one of her books read to the end. Also I do want Olive to succeed in her life, even if that was something that the majority of children in her position probably never got the chance to do.
Reading Olive reminded me that Elizabeth Barrett Browning had a spinal problem from her early teenage years that caused her problems for the rest of her life.
’ She had intense head and spinal pain with loss of mobility. Various biographies link this to a riding accident at the time (she fell while trying to dismount a horse), but there is no evidence to support the link. Sent to recover at the Gloucester spa, she was treated – in the absence of symptoms supporting another diagnosis – for a spinal problem…… this illness continued for the rest of her life,…(from Wikipedia)’
The fact that Robert Browning sent her love letters and finally ran off with her after visiting her ‘lying on her couch,’ makes me think that Olive might yet have happiness before her.
Trev wrote: "The fact that Robert Browning sent her love letters and finally ran off with her after visiting her ‘lying on her couch,’ makes me think that Olive might yet have happiness before her."
And you just reminded me of the disabled but beautiful character in Barchester Towers! I'd forgotten about her.
And you just reminded me of the disabled but beautiful character in Barchester Towers! I'd forgotten about her.
Lori wrote: "Trev wrote: "The fact that Robert Browning sent her love letters and finally ran off with her after visiting her ‘lying on her couch,’ makes me think that Olive might yet have happiness before her...."
The disability in Trollope was a bit questionable. But there have been some studies of Victorian women invalids. In many cases, there were real issues, maybe gynecological, or stemming from medical treatment, like Louisa May Alcott, whose treatment with mercury probably caused her later issues. Also mental and emotional stresses weren’t recognized as serious, but being an “invalid “ was. Of course, only certain classes had the luxury of spending days in bed. Sophia Peabody Hawthorne, wife of Nathaniel, was the invalid of her family, but once she married and left home, she was suddenly much better.
The disability in Trollope was a bit questionable. But there have been some studies of Victorian women invalids. In many cases, there were real issues, maybe gynecological, or stemming from medical treatment, like Louisa May Alcott, whose treatment with mercury probably caused her later issues. Also mental and emotional stresses weren’t recognized as serious, but being an “invalid “ was. Of course, only certain classes had the luxury of spending days in bed. Sophia Peabody Hawthorne, wife of Nathaniel, was the invalid of her family, but once she married and left home, she was suddenly much better.
I’m really unsure about this book. These chapters didn’t capture my interest as the first selection did. I will definitely finish reading it as I had never heard of this author previously.

If that was Mary Cholmondeley's..."
I have read all Mary Cholmondeley’s full novels except one. Also quite a few of her short story collections. I have been impressed by her wit and craft as a writer and, although she may have been classed as second rate, she beats quite a few of the first rated authors in my view. I have resisted Notwithstanding so far because I hope to suggest it as group read in the future. It was flagged up by critics of her day as one of her best.

maybe not the right word here? I'm no English native speaker, so not always sure of meanings ... just forget it."
I beg your pardon, I hadn't realised - nobody would ever guess!

This author’s self-consciousness is the main barrier for me. She tells us over a couple of sentences that there’s no point in describing the landscape, and then two paragraphs later she’s describing it in detail. And she’s always telling us about what’s going on instead of giving us dialogue scenes so we can figure it out for ourselves—makes it hard to engage. It’s as though she can’t get past the idea in her mind that she’s telling us a story and just focus on the story.
She certainly leans on the doomy bits awfully hard. It seems obvious at the end of chapter 16 that the Captain has just ruined Mr. Gwynne and his mother—and incidentally Sara as well, which she will probably hold against the unsuspecting Olive. Were stories like these intended as condemnation of the excessive power men had in this society, or is that a modern reading?
Olive herself is certainly a pleaser, rather like Fanny Price but more so. For a more robust handicapped character we might read Fanny Burney’s Camilla sometime (no r).

Yes, that's what I don't like about it. She's always telling, not showing.

Abigail, click on General in Settings and then click on Keyboard. There's a list of options to choose from.

Grate noos! I luk fourward too al yur fushure poosts!


..."
That seemed odd to me too. I'm afraid the author needed to have him meet Harold on terms of trust, and giving Angus a childhood crush on his mother was the best she could think of, but it's not very plausible, is it?
Books mentioned in this topic
Notwithstanding (other topics)Diana Tempest (other topics)
Red Pottage (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Mary Cholmondeley (other topics)Mary Cholmondeley (other topics)
Why is the Rothesays’ marriage unhappy?
What is Olive’s attitude toward her “deformity”? How does it differ from that of others?
What do you think of Sara Derwent?
How does Olive’s first ball go?
What explanations may there be for Captain Rothesay’s behavior? Is he keeping a secret?
There have been a few passages in this section that might or might not be considered foreshadowing. Do you have any predictions based (or not) on these?