The Not a Book Club Club discussion

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Apostasy. Spiders in the blood. A perilous flight from corrupted companions. "She is going to eat the world."

And that's just the prologue.

I was two thirds of the way through Range of Ghosts before I was this interested in the story.

The spider blood is so creepy!

With the first Marcus chapter you get immediately bamboozled with the multitude of "slave races" that humanity has become.

There's a good backgrounder on Daniel Abraham's web site: An Introduction to the Taxonomy of Races.

I remember thinking this starts a bit slow, but I enjoyed it.

I think it's pretty cool that he sort of shows two ways to power. The traditional might way (dagger) and the economic way (coin).

I still don't really keep all the races straight. There are just too many, and I did the series in audio.

I'll have to give that link a look see. Thanks Lindsey.

I don't like prologues where I have to figure out who, where and when everyone is, only to forget them after those couple of pages. Same here.
What I liked about the prologue is the last sentence :)

Marcus promises a very interesting background - a hero leading a caravan now because he doesn't want to be pressed into that small war?
His con with mummers instead of soldiers promises much fun as well.

Rob wrote: "I think it's pretty cool that he sort of shows two ways to power. The traditional might way (dagger) and the economic way (coin)."
Thanks for that heads-up, I didn't notice it. The coin part shows up in ch. 3 with Cithrin as a bank's ward.

Rob wrote: "I still don't really keep all the races straight."
I hope, I won't need additional links to get used to the setting. Next chapter will contain a bit infodump concerning races, though.

Yeah I am doing audio too, the keeping the races straight is difficult. Thanks for the Lindsay, I am printing it out along with the map

Section 1 is Kindle loc 15-1189

Last section is sentence "Probably, Master Kit said."

For the audible version narrated by Pete Bradbury:

Section 2 starts at 2:52:25

Chapter 1 had Marcus leading a caravan out of a soon-to-be sieged city and chapter 2 goes to the opposing POV with the army that will soon arrive that city. I didn't like ASoIaF's POV changes where the POVs often where distant in time and place. But Abraham's style is easier for me, as the POVs seem to go hand in hand.

2nd chapter gave a nice "shitty" introduction to one of the POVs Geder. I had to laugh about the preferred form of testosteroned males. Poets reciting guys don't come up in my mind when I think of hard warriors - but that is my cultural bias and Abraham intentionally breaks that. Of course, science books loving guys are weaklings who have to be dumped in shit. Loving that picture. But it isn't something I'd recommend reading during lunch time.

I found it funny how Marcus and Cithrin were brought together: Marcus engaged a mummer's group to impose soldiers. And now he's got an additional mummer (Cithrin) that he doesn't know about.
Abraham throws in a bit info-dumping sometimes. But I like the setting and diversity of humans enough to not worry.

I finished the audio for this section. Excellent start, i am liking it out of the gate, but I think I need to go back and skim the kindle version. Some of the sections deserved closer reading than listening at the gym.

I think I get the main plot points

prologue is some spider blood guy that doesn't believe anymore and fled his monastery.

Marcus is an ex-war hero, doesn't want to serve kings anymore. To escape the kings conscription he gets a contract to guard a caravan. Prince has his crew arrested, he needs new crew before caravan leaves, hires a group on mummers to act as soldiers.

Geder is an overweight, intellectual son of a minor/poor noble, off on his first campaign. The members of his company don't like him.

Cithrin is an orphan who was taken as ward of the bank. The prince is trying to seize the banks assets, has the other bank servant (cart driver?) killed, so they make Cithrin dress as a boy to smuggle out the banks assets disguised as wool etc.

Dawson is a Duke. He is scheming to have his (son?) installed as ruler of some city state but in order to do so needs to have the war go on one more season. He discretely hires some mercenaries to bolster the enemies defenses in order to do so. But it seems his plan was discovered.

So the points I am confused about:

1) Who is at war with who? The prince vs ...?
2) Dawson rides on the side of the prince? I think so because he encounters the mercenaries
3) Who were the surprise people Geder encountered along with the mercenaries? Someone previously unaligned or switched sides?
4) Who is Dawson's son riding with? I thought he made mention of someone w/ Geder's description in his company.

I think that I enjoyed the prologue more than anything else in this book. (Which is not a knock on the rest of the book - I liked it.) It definitely drew me right in.

Sky wrote: "1) Who is at war with who? The prince vs ...?
2) Dawson rides on the side of the prince? I think so because he encounters the mercenaries
3) Who were the surprise people Geder encountered along with the mercenaries? Someone previously unaligned or switched sides?
4) Who is Dawson's son riding with? I thought he made mention of someone w/ Geder's description in his company. "

1 - The war is against Vanai, a city state. At least, that's how I interpreted the description of Vanai.
2 - Dawson is on the Prince's side
3 - I can't remember this
4 - Dawson's son is in the same company/platoon (?) as Geder

Thanks Geoff!

Sky wrote: "1) Who is at war with who? The prince vs ...?
2) Dawson rides on the side of the prince? I think so because he encounters the mercenaries
3) Who were the surprise people Geder encountered along with the mercenaries? Someone previously unaligned or switched sides?
4) Who is Dawson's son riding with? I thought he made mention of someone w/ Geder's description in his company. "

1 - Yes, Vanai is one of the Free Cities. (13) on the map at the beginning of the book. The aggressor is Antea, a feudal country to the north of the Free Cities.

2 - Dawson is Dawson Kalliam, Baron of Osterling Falls and a Baron of Antea. At the start of the book he is in the Antean capitol, Camnipol.

3 - This is in the second Geder chapter during the battle. These are the reinforcements from Maccia (a city of Birancour further down the coast on the Inner Sea) that Dawson arranged in the previous chapter:

Dawson had worked through the most obscure channels he could, had sent letters to agents in Stollbourne who sent letters to merchants in Birancour who had business in Maccia. Discretion was critical, but he had managed it. Six hundred soldiers would reinforce the free city of Vanai until such time as it was convenient that they not.

Yes, Dawson has arranged reinforcements for the other side of the war. You find out more of what's going on here later.

4 - Dawson's full name is Dawson Kalliam. From the first Geder chapter:

His so-called friends and companions of the sword. Jorey Kalliam, son of the Baron of Osterling Fells. Sir Gospey Allintot. Sodai Carvenallin, secretary to the High Marshal. And, worst of all, Sir Alan Klin, captain of the company, Geder’s immediate superior

Nice summaries of the characters. It has been awhile since I read this book, and those are bringing it all back.

I agree - the introduction to Geder is not a good lunchtime read - yuck. It really made me sympathize with him since I too like to read :)

Aha...thanks Lindsay, it's all becoming more clear now. I think at one point I was thinking that all the POV characters were on the same side/location...Now it is starting to make more sense!

This is a reread for me but I don't really remember much but the highlights.

I finished the first section without realizing I had read that much so I guess I am enjoying it.

I found the race descriptions interesting in the book and the link Lindsay provided because they were both prejudiced by the race of the writer. Still having trouble remembering which race is which.

So far none of the characters really stand out. The intials chapters really gave me more of a feel for the external situation rather than any significant insight into their makeup.

Here's a good high quality pdf of the map that I used as a reference while reading (the map is far too small on my ereader).

Dagger and the Coin Map (pdf)

Awesome, thanks. Couldn't see anything on my kindle.

Interesting prologue,Marcus chapter basically tells us about the war from a third person's pov, while Geder tells us from what is actually happening in army's side.

Lindsay wrote: "Here's a good high quality pdf of the map that I used as a reference while reading (the map is far too small on my ereader).

Dagger and the Coin Map (pdf)"

Awesome! Thanks for that. :)

I liked the first section a lot. The Prologue constitutes a nice introduction, with lots to think about later. I like the concept of various races and noticed that the Acolyte was one of the Firstborn, just like presumably the whole Antea, and certainly Dawson, Geder and Marcus. Citrin is a halfbreed, her mother was from the Cinnae, a race with talent in mental arts, and (I think) she is half Firstborn.

As for the Acolyte: It was interesting and of course creepy that he had spiders in his blood, evidence of some Spider Queen influence that the monks he ran away from worship.It also has something to do with the dragons. Yet as I mentioned earlier, he is a Firstborn, so most humanlike in form from what I understand for now. I found it weird how could he combine the two things (spiders in his bloodstream and human properties)? He also has some special mental powers and can tell immediately if his interlocutors are telling the truth. I was wondering about the Acolyte's identity whuch presumably will be revealed at some point in the book. The events from the prologue could have happened already many years ago. Therefore, since I noticed at the end of 2nd Marcus chapter that Master Kit has some mysterious mental powers and I guess he also knows who is speaking the truth ( notice how he smiled at the sincerity with which Marcus declared he would have fought the bandits at an obvious disadvantage if he had to) I'm guessing for now he could be the acolyte from the prologue, or at least connected to him somehow. A long shot, but I like wild guesses, they make reading more interesting.

That's good analysis Teanka. When I read the book, I got so focused on the blood because it was so visual that I really didn't register the mental powers.

Isn't it Cithrin?

Which I pronounce Kith-rin, like a corrupted version of Catherine.

I've been saying it "Sith-rin" I think I like the hard C better but not sure if I'll be able to switch.

Suzanne wrote: "I've been saying it "Sith-rin" I think I like the hard C better but not sure if I'll be able to switch."
I'm pronoucing it like you, the 'K' doesn't suit me here (probably because in Roman languages C before e and i is hard, and only before a o u like in Catherine is pronounced as 'K')

The audio book pronounces it Sith-rin as well.