The Not a Book Club Club discussion

Please keep all discussion to the events and speculation from this section.

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Please do not discuss events from later chapters. Referring back to events from a previous section/book is fine.

Section 3 is Kindle loc 2415-3519

First sentence "Geder might have found it more difficult to hide his subterfuge if his failure hadn't been assumed from the start"

Last sentence "We have to win this while it's still our war."

For the audible version narrated by Pete Bradbury:

Section 3 starts at 5:43:05

Continuing on our discussion of Dawson and his POV (anti-commoner, etc) I thought his meeting with Issandrian was particularly interesting. Even though his ideas are quite antiquated by today's standards, his view is pretty convincing if I put myself in the role of an educated noble during his period. I found myself nodding along with him that the idea of putting an uneducated farmer in the court was laughable :)

Opal's betrayal was pretty shocking.

I wonder how dark things are going to get... Let's see...

Remind me who Opal is again?

She was the one in the acting troupe that hired the thugs to steal the bank loot.

Oh. Right. Forgot about that part. Thanks.

I keep going back and forth on Dawson. His views make sense on the front you mentioned since the education level would be drastic between noble and commoner. The thing that bothers me about him is that he seems like he is stuck in the past and he can't even get along with his own allies. Also the way he talks about people below him when he says about them being below his notice makes me dislike him. He isn't trying to improve his country he is trying to keep his power.

I don't think you're supposed to like Dawson completely. Or dislike him completley. He feels a lot more realistic than most non antagonist nobles in fantasy novels to me.

True. I think Abraham gives you good perspective into the world without worrying if you like his characthers.

Yes, the that whole part with Opal was in fact very realistic (to me). I can't imagine that many people being so honest and keeping that kind of secret.

I'm assuming that Master Kit is the apostate from the prologue, yes? And that's why he explains to Cithrin that he tries not to speak directly - in order not to use the power of his spider blood to make people believe what he says?

Intersting theory with Kit. Didn't even cross my mind.

Oh, well, maybe not. Maybe he is just another spider blood person. Something is going on there though, don't you think?

I was kind of vague with my response but I think your theory makes total sense. I kind of forgot about the prologue and wasn't making any connections. Once i read your post that scene totally fit with him being the apostate.

Yeah, now that you mention it I think you may be right with Kit. Not only can he make other people believe what he is saying (eg when he assumes a role or when they faced the bandits earlier on) but he can also detect lies (eg Opal's lie)

Yeah especially bad since it is a reread for me.

I guessed about Kit in the first section, so it's probably pretty obvious that he's the apostate.

I'm beginning to dislike Dawson. At first I thought he had his reasons for being prejudiced with people from lower classes like peasants etc. but now I start to think he's going too far and it doesn't look like he's a skilled politician either. In his conversation with Issandrian the latter seemed more likable, willing to step down a bit for the sake of a greater good. But it might change in the next chapters, of course.

I suspect the rise of Geder is about to make all these little factional groups (including the actual monarchy) irrelevant.

"She will eat the world."

Lindsay wrote: "I suspect the rise of Geder is about to make all these little factional groups (including the actual monarchy) irrelevant.

"She will eat the world.""

You're right of course, but you've already read the book:) From this chapter's perspective it wasn't quite that obvious, Geder was in the capital back from Vanai.

I think Geder's values changes are a bit drastic, because although we did not know what kind of person he was but with whatever was described he seemed to me like a book loving no nonsense person, but the way alan klin time and again tried to disrespect him has changed him by the way he has started taking bribes and finding ways possible to hurt klin, or may be the nobility thinks that when a lower person offers them something it is their right to take it.

Also cithrin seems like a natural banker/merchant to me, because her ideas helped the merchant earn profit.Also she likes to be in power as was shown at the end of the chapter.

When some persons attacked cithrin & marcus house I was sure it was someone connected to the troupe/caravn master, it tturned out to be opal was a surprise, but I think I remember reading opal liked sandr too so it was basically to get back to cithrin, opal did what she did.