Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for Ice & Ivy by J.D. Evans starting on November 4, 2023.


Happy Reading!

Thank you!

I'm getting excited for this one! I went and finally read the short story J.D. Evans sent out for newsletter folks, and it's a nice little short scene from Samira's POV, happening a few years (I think) before Reign & Ruin. Also a good scene to read before Ihsan's book, I think. The author said I could share this link with y'all:
https://dl.bookfunnel.com/eytdjxep3v

Thoughts--(view spoiler)[This snippet really solidifies my suspicions on two--no three--items. Well, two and a half. One--that Kadir is using cursed jewelry as a form of mind control--how he forces Cemil to act! And one and a half--that Cemil is NOT Kadir's son--but the son of his "runaway" (but probably killed) mother and her lover--and is actually the Fire Charah. How could a water mage burn? Only if burned by the power of all Fire.... we know Cemil's mother was an Earth Mage... and that she was known to have lovers before getting married. Whether she was already pregnant with Cemil when she was foisted on Kadir after being rejected by Omar, or if she took up with a lover after discovering what an ass Kadir is, who knows?

And I think that Kadir used the cursed jewelry to control Cemil, and make him burn Ihsan... which would explain how panicked Cemil was, and how badly he wanted to escape "him."

I have to wonder if Kadir knows. I kind of think he has to... and that what he does to Cemil is in revenge against the wife who betrayed him... (hide spoiler)]

I'm gonna start this one a bit early, the other book I started to read was boring me, so back to Mages of the Wheel it is!

I'm probably going to jump in on Monday--really looking forward to it! Ordered my signed copy off Etsy!

I probably won't get to this until audio is announced/released...

Dipping my toes in! Chapter 1--(view spoiler)[Well, well, well. A Behram POV! Interesting... I honestly can't remember if we got some of his POV in the prequel book or not, but it wouldn't be the same regardless, with so much time since then...

More hints at Cemil not being the Vizier's son. Every day a reminder of all those who had wronged him... Cemil the worst reminder of them all.--and calling him "her son" in his mind--never refers to him as "his son" or "my son"... I wonder if Cemil knows?

The woman he remembers, I'm guessing that refers to the Sultana's mother... she died from illness, and the "people she had no business serving" would fit her too--he didn't like the fact that she taught the poor...

Heh. I bet Cemil is the one supplying information to the bandits.

Nice to see that our Water Charah is maneuvering to be a nuisance to he Vizier.

I really need to brush up on names.

And what is this "Wheel Breaker" business? Hiding a life debt for three turns? 18 years? About the life of most of our MCs. I don't remember any of this... Wheel Breaker sounds like oath-breaker...

Ah. This life debt must be to the father of our new love interest... yup, second house--so we're looking at the Life Charah for sure then. Was a bit worried when I read the blurb of the book calling her a Void... well, we'll see how this all pans out... (hide spoiler)]

I'm several chapters in, don't have much to say really, it's taking its time to get into it, but enjoying seeing all the characters mixed together that we've seen so far.

@Nirkatze (view spoiler)[ No, there wasn't a Behram POV in the prequel. I was also surprised at one in here!

I think Cemil is his son. I took that quote to mean he's the worst reminder because he's the offspring of his wife. If Behram had a son that he knew wasn't biologically his, do you think he'd stand for it?! His pride wouldn't be able to take that. He'd probably burn it! (hide spoiler)]

Beena wrote: "I'm several chapters in, don't have much to say really, it's taking its time to get into it, but enjoying seeing all the characters mixed together that we've seen so far.

@Nirkatze No, there wasn..."

Unless--(view spoiler)[the son gave him power somehow. There's a lot of hints in the previous books that Cemil isn't his... and that Cemil is in fact, the Fire Charah of the fifth house--making the last book his book (and Samara's). But I can definitely see what you mean about Behram's attitude!

In book 4, there's mention that Cemil doesn't look anything like Behram.

In the prequel, it's mentioned that his mother is an Earth Mage, and that she had lovers before she got married--and was NOT happy about being married off to Behram.

I'm wondering if his mother's "disappearance" was catalyzed by Behram discovering his wife's infidelity... and he disposed of the mother (and maybe father) but not the son--perhaps because he had already realized just how powerful Cemil is...

In the prequel novella, it's shown or heavily hinted that Behram is using cursed jewelry to control Cemil's actions--I can't see him doing that to a son of his own blood... (hide spoiler)]

So that's all my theorizing!

Through Chapter 3--I'm so happy to see the all of the previous characters show up, even in little bits... and to see the events of the previous books too, piling on top of each other--(view spoiler)[though I am very suspicious of these raids... the opening chapter made it pretty clear Behram is behind the insurrection whispers--but BOTH Behram AND the Sultana are experiencing raids on their supply lines... and neither seems to be taking responsibility for them. Is there a third party involved? Perhaps the Empire is funding bandits, or Markham's brother?

Nice to meet our female MC! I am wondering if she is actually a magicless Void though--or our Life Charah. Most likely the Life Charah would have to live there for the crops to be surviving from the Blight... but there hasn't been enough description of the magic system so far to show if someone could have magic and not know it--even one where most of the mages had died out. Though I guess--since the Charah seem to draw their power in part from others of their spoke of the wheel, that the Life Charah separated from any other Life mages could seem like a Void... with only the most innate powers remaining... those of innately keeping living things around her from dying, or of making a seed bloom a specific color without realizing it... (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 6 (view spoiler)[I like how different each pair of MCs in each book is. In this one--they are opposites in emotion. Ihsan always tightly controlling his and avoiding those of others, even though he can't avoid feeling due to being a water mage. Nesrin is extremely empathic and insightful due to that empathy--but her empathy is all hard-earned through observation rather than magic.

Also, Nesrin is totally the Life Charah, if it was still in any doubt. She's just grown up in an environment that expected her to be one thing, which she wasn't... and I wouldn't be surprised if my previous theory ties into it as well. Too much life imagery throughout, and too much emphasis on her being a Void, for her to be anything else. I wonder how that realization will come about? Maybe when she meets the other life mages for the first time?

And the little hints we've been getting--like her essentially talking to the cat--I wonder how life magic is going to work, outside of just making plants grow (like her spice garden). It also makes me think of how Amara's magic doesn't match other water mages--hers is purely over emotion, and she can't actually affect water... how will Nesrin's turn out? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 7--(view spoiler)[Well, this will turn out to be a fun ride. First, a political stumble for both Kadir and Ihsan--when Nesrin turns out to not be nobility... followed by a triumph when she's discovered to be the Third House Charah... I'm guessing that's going to be one of the last things then, probably at a climactic moment... I wonder if Ihsan & the Sultana will be able to use Kadir's lying as a political spade... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 7 (view spoiler)[ I'm not sure what Cemil's game in this chapter is. It does seem obvious tho that he deliberately pushed both of them away. The fact that Ihsan and him were close friends is news to me! It's also clear that he's playing a persona, but to what end, I don't know.

In one way I feel sorry for Ihsan, he thinks he's doing Naime a favour, trying to gain her the benefits of the marriage, but of course Nesrin's not really who Kadir said she is, so there are none. Then there is the other side that they will actually fall for each other which is nice, but what if Kadir then reveals that the marriage doesn't count because she's not noble? Would whatever this debt of his is, that she knows about, be enough to hold over his head?

Love from an arranged marriage.. this'll be interesting.

From village to palace- that's going to be such a jump for Nesrin! I'm not really sure what her strengths are yet either, with Dilay it was obvious. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 8 (view spoiler)[ oh ffs, he's trying to use her! I mean I know Kadir is Kadir but ugh! I really hope we get to see his come-uppance and that it's a damn good one! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 10 (view spoiler)[I feel so sorry for her! I wonder if Naime picked up all is not what it seems with her, she's always perceptive and picks up on little things.

I wonder how this is gonna go- cos in a YA it would be obvious- the Prince would take pity on her and feed her, give her a purpose etc and then love would grow from their time together. But Ihsan being so prickly adds a layer of interest. And it makes sense that his would be an arranged love affair because of his very nature/temperament, he would not have been open enough to fall in love normally and wouldn't have put himself in a situation to do so. (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 9--re: Cemil--I definitely recommend checking out that short story, I think it was called "All that Burns"--bookfunnel link from author at top of thread--it gives some insights into Cemil & Ihsan's past... Samira POV short from the day he was burned... (view spoiler)[and it heavily implies that the Vizier is mind-controlling Cemil to some extent--so his erratic behavior could be part control, part wrestling with that control...

I liked Nesrin's interaction with him--like she can tell that he's not a bad person, but is being used to bad ends...

Did you notice how the servant grasped her wrist when Kadir expressed his displeasure? I bet she's wearing some of his cursed jewelry too...

I really hate the way Nesrin is being treated and really want her to get some time away from the abusive servant woman...

I'm thinking Nesrin's life magic may also extend to healing... that maybe she is the real reason Kadir survived this strange episode with the horse... I even wonder if that might have been connected to the day Ihsan was burned...

There was another hint about Kadir being betrayed by his wife--with a statement on "women having more power over men than they realize"--though that could also be a reference to Naime's mother.

Also really want that comeuppance... would love to see some this book, but I'm not holding my breath... have a feeling the big Kadir comeuppance is the series finale. But is it too much to ask for at least a little comeuppance? (hide spoiler)]

Soz, just quickly dumped my spoilers earlier, didn't have time to read and reply.

Re Chapter 6 & 7 (view spoiler)[ Ah yeah, good point, I completely forgot that Nesrin would be the Charah, given Ihsan isn't! (Even tho the entire series is based on finding one in each book, d'oh! *facepalm*) Yeah, I'm not sure what her power would be, but looks like she does have an affinity for healing, so it could be a good guess. And I like what you said about growing up in the wrong environment, that makes sense that she wouldn't have known how to utilise her powers if there was nobody around that could do it, or to teach her.

Agreed about the different MCs. It makes a change from the same old tropes being recycled. I appreciate the effort Evans' puts into that too and how well matched they are in unique ways.

followed by a triumph when she's discovered to be the Third House Charah..

Ok Kadir's gonna love that! And the fact that he handed her to Naime! Lol. (hide spoiler)]

Re Chapter 9- Ahhh, I've already started this now, so don't really wanna jump into another story even if it's short and even if it's related lol, I'll just read it afterwards...

(view spoiler)[ Ok, that's interesting.

Wrist grasp- yeah, but I though she was grasping Nesrin's wrist not her own? Unless I read that wrong....

Yeah, I hope she manages to get away from the servant too, it is really abusive.

Interesting theory on Nesrin.

The "women having more power thing" I took to mean Dilay, cos Kadir got a distant look on his face and he was probably remembering her.

is it too much to ask for at least a little comeuppance?

You know?!! (hide spoiler)]

re: Charah--I've definitely been keeping a close eye on the language, and there's a lot of (view spoiler)[growing-related vocabulary & metaphor, and Nesrin is always gravitating to whatever plants or outside space there is in a scene.

In addition to there not being enough Life mages for her to network with, the local culture is also against her--everyone knows that the children of water mages MUST be water mages.... you NEVER have an off-house child--unless it is a Charah. And remember how in the first book, Naime had to go deep into library research to even find information about Charah? So I'm guessing the idea that Nesrin could be a mage other than a water mage never even occurred to anyone in her village... though--it must also be possible for Voids to be born to mages then... though Nesrin is the first person we've met born in Tamar or its neighboring country to be (supposedly) without magic--the concept was only introduced in book 3, with Cassian... up to then, I honestly thought that every person in the world belonged to some house or other... Voids must be very rare in Tamar. (hide spoiler)]

Up through Chapter 21--really into it now, more gobbling and less thinking lately, though I'm still combing through everything and gathering evidence, (view spoiler)[both of Nesrin's nature, Cemil's possible background, and Kadir's treachery.

More data on Cemil--ever since book 1, it's been said that Water Mages don't burn. A chapter or two ago, when Nesrin asked what could burn a Water Mage--someone suggested "A more powerful mage." Ihsan is the most powerful Water Mage currently known--save for Amara herself. What could be more powerful? A Charah. But for him to be Charah, his father would need to have been an Earth mage...

More data on Kadir--in this chapter, Nesrin notices that Reyhan is wearing a bracelit around her wrist, set with red stones--she twists it and plays with it when Kanat is mentioned. Same place she grabbed in pain before... Also remembering the bracelet that Kadir gave Amara, that was destroyed--and that when she wore it she got sick. And the cursed stones Aysel found in Kadir's room...

I'm glad that Reyhan is slowly warming to Nesrin. Everyone so far seems to be equating ignorance with incompetence--but ignorance can be rectified if they actually give her time and are patient... everyone ignorant is incompetent, but ignorance is not their fault! But I can give some forgiveness for her, since it seems like Reyan is not only also being controlled by a cursed bracelet, but also has family being held hostage... I wonder what is keeping Reyhan from accepting Amara's offer of help? Simple fear of Kadir, or distrust of Amara too?

Glad we're getting more time with our former folk again--and not just the MCs, but the supporting folk as well--I like Djar! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 23--(view spoiler)[Really enjoyed the flour scene! Starting to warm to Reyhan, even as she warms to Nesrin... though her mentioning how the Vizier would be pleased with Nesrin's progress put a serious damper on everything.

I keep wondering if Nesrin's food troubles has more of a cause than just her anxiety. Sometimes it makes me think of an eating disorder--but she has none of the body-control issues... and she doesn't seem to be consciously choosing not to eat, though many people with eating disorders find food distasteful, those characters usually think about what the food will do to their body when they are disgusted by it...

I was even thinking she might be gluten allgergic or something, but she doesn't seem to have the same problems at home...

I am thinking that the fact that she has magic she doesn't know is part of her body's problem--it's mentioned that magic uses more of the body's resources, which is why she kept giving away her food--but as a Charah, she must have more drain from magic than anyone else she knows...

So yeah, full circle, probably the searing anxiety... and the fact, like she mentioned, that you can't go from starving to rich food without your body rebelling...

The whole twisted mess of lies is getting more and more troublesome. I do like the tension though--and even though I want Nesrin to confide in Ihsan or the Sultana--they haven't really given her any reason to trust them any more than the Vizier at this point. So while I often find this kind of mistrust and twisted lie scheme plots annoying, I'm actually finding it working pretty well here so far... especially since I trust the author to deliver a HEA by the book's conclusion. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 24 (view spoiler)[Awww first hug!! I'd be more excited about the crack in composure if it was clean are with no lies. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 26--(view spoiler)[I think the empty space is the Charah space--the same place Amara too Cassian when she overwhelmed him, and the place the Charah go when they swear to the Wheel... which is also a kind of Void place, isn't it? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 27--(view spoiler)[Lots of great food descriptions! Makes me want to look up recipes... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 30--this cinches it, in my mind--(view spoiler)[Osman Altimur was one of the Sultan's friends--and also Behram's friends--in Wind & Wildfire. He had a crush on Zehra, Cemil's mother... and it was rumored they had a physical relationship before Zehra's betrothal to the Sultan was cancelled and she was handed to Behram instead.

Osman also disappeared shortly before Behram's marriage... when the accusations of the affair came out... no one knows what happened to him. Same kind of thing that happened to Zehra not long after Cemil's birth.

And the Sultan just called Cemil Osman. So, he's definitely Osman's son, not Kadir's... and the Fire Charah.

So, it looks like Behram might not only have known about his wife's infidelity, but married her because of it... to have a child he could use without any feeling...?

On another note--Dilay apparently once referred to Voids as "seeds of opportunity" or something like that. Wouldn't it be interesting if Nesrin was actually born a Void--and became the Life Charah through a combination of circumstance and the Wheel's need? I'm guessing this probably isn't the case, but it'd be interesting--if Voids could actually develop magical affinity over time... (hide spoiler)]

Ahhh Nirkatze! Why you zooming?!! I can't keep up! You'll probably be finished now soon! :(

Question though- do you use the app or desktop to log into Goodreads?

If desktop, how do you manage to keep logging on and posting so regularly? I'd say you and other audiobookers come on several times a day.

I presume you've got work and other things on too, so I'm just bamboozled as to how??!

I'm really enjoying this now, also a random aside- I love Kuzhey's incompetence, it makes me laugh.

Chapter 12 (view spoiler)["Did have a particular affection for the green of growing things". And the green in her eyes.. yeah I think you're right in your speculation of life charah. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 13 (view spoiler)[ He's done barely anything except snap and glare at her, of course she's gonna be scared of him! Aysel's right, he is bad with people. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 15 (view spoiler)[ Indeed, Naime said everything I was thinking! I think Nesrin's gonna make the fig tree come back to life. Naime and the sultan will love it. (hide spoiler)]

Beena wrote: "Ahhh Nirkatze! Why you zooming?!! I can't keep up! You'll probably be finished now soon! :(

Question though- do you use the app or desktop to log into Goodreads?

If desktop, how do you manage to ..."

re: Goodreads--I don't actually own a smartphone, so I use the computer. I keep my notifications tab open--actually, I have a tab island for my BR Tracker and any information I need to add to it, a tab island for the notifications and any random threads I want to reply to but need to think more about, a tab island for the books I'm currently reading, and a tab island for the reviews I'm working on.

Oh, and GR only logs me out about once a month, so that makes it easy too.

Reading is my #1 hobby and I don't have a family to take care of, so other than work, this is my main time sink. I also am really trying to be a better review writer, because I know that's one of the best ways to support authors, and talking with everyone really helps with that!

I usually check notifications when I'm home from work (or after my post-work nap) and reply to most everything... I find it a nice way to relax after work. I definitely post more than I need to, but I just feel like it's important that everyone's words get acknowledged, you know? Even if it's just a nod or an "I hear you, you're not being ignored." I also have no social media except for this, and I'm not in any other GR groups... so I don't really get social media etiquette, and am applying regular face-to-face etiquette to it, maybe... so I over-post.

When I'm reading eyebooks (like this one), if I can, I have my computer open nearby and so can post as I'm reading and have thoughts. Sometimes I keep some scrap paper tucked into my ereader to take notes if I'm not going to be near my computer for a while.

For audio, I find it harder to catch thoughts, but usually I'm listening while I'm prepping for work the next day, which is all on the computer anyway, so I still get to jump in when I do. Sometimes I listen during my prep-period at work, if the grading is the mind-numbing kind.

So yeah, basically, the short answer is--I'm a book addict. I have gone 0 days without reading. I will never get a one week chip. >.<

Sorry about the zooming... just finding it really hard to put down!

Oh, and we had a snow day today, so I'll probably continue posting like a maniac...

Chapter 31--(view spoiler)[Ooh, the void! It's like her magic is trying to push through, and come into being... but the fire and ice is blocking it, or making it hurt somehow? I hope that get explains better. The person she feels who is in pain--is it one of the Life Mage refugees from the Republic? Or is it supposed to be Ihsan? Maybe Life Mages form connections with the people in their life...?

I'm betting that it was Cemil who pulled Ihsan from the fire--he must have set the fire on his father's command... but he still loved/loves Ihsan & Samira and hates the role he has to play... I also find it interesting how Nesrin's sense of Cemil's fire is that of the warmth of the sun, unlike her sense of the Vizier...

And we *almost* got a bow-chicka-wow-wow scene. I'm actually really glad Nesrin stopped things--she's right, the lies need to be cleared before anything can happen... I'm not sure how or what she's going to need to do to get it figured out, but I have a feeling her magic might play a part in it, when it finally bursts... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 32 (view spoiler)[I'm glad Nesrin is taking things into her own hands--but this is definitely a dangerous move!

It seems like Nesrin called her magic for the first real time--and when she did, did you notice Cemil grunted as a shield of flame jumped up around Kadir? I'm guessing two things here--one, Charah called to Charah, and Cemil felt Nesrin's magic. Two--that Kadir might have somehow stolen or linked himself to Cemil's magic, so he can use it as his own, to augment his own fire... which means Kadir could have been the one to burn Ihsan, rather than Kadir forcing Cemil...

The fire flaring also affected Reyhan--but I wonder if that was Fire Charah pulling reaction, or having to do with her cursed bracelet...

And here we see how the binding happens! With Nesrin bound, that must mean we'll also learn how to break the bindings in this book... but will it be Nesrin who does it, from the inside, with her magic and determination--or will it be from the outside, someone saving her? And if she's saved--will the discovery come because she confides in someone, or because she's "found out"? I'm glad that this is coming to a head!

Also--with the talk of sigils--Cemil must have them tattooed on him... I wonder if Reyhan does too... and again wondering if they give Kadir access to their magic... Kadir surely just recognized that Nesrin is the Life Charah. But he doesn't seem to be using her for that...

And gods-damned but Kadir had BETTER GET SOME COMEUPPANCE THIS BOOK! I don't think I'm going to be satisfied with just "a little" anymore... (hide spoiler)]

Squeee! Things are getting exciting!

Beena wrote: "I'm really enjoying this now, also a random aside- I love Kuzhey's incompetence, it makes me laugh.

Chapter 12 [spoilers removed]

Chapter 13 [spoilers removed]

Chapter 15 [spoilers removed]"

Really love the little tidbits you pointed out here!

re: green--(view spoiler)[I feel like I should start counting each time Nesrin thinks in growing metaphors, or every time Ihsan sees a flash of green... (hide spoiler)]

re: snapping--I know right!! (view spoiler)[Seriously want to shake Ihsan... he hasn't even TRIED to figure out where she's coming from! No one asked her if she wanted this, or if she even knew what was happening, or anything!!! It's like the whole "assumptions" emo trope--which is one of my most hated ones--but I can forgive this book because it's actually Ihsan's fault for not caring and being so self-absorbed, rather than an emo "oh, it's me, it must be me, oh I won't even ask them because I'm so emo I must just assume and wallow in emoness!" And his friends are all admonishing him for it too.

Hah! Yes! Love Naime for that! (hide spoiler)]

re: tree--I totally was thinking the same thing! Fingers crossed!!

Through Chapter 34--(view spoiler)[I'm glad Nesrin isn't giving up--she's taking a tangent. Really hoping she figures this all out and it gives Naime the leverage she needs!

With Makrham being captured by the Republic... and Naime's comment that Kadir will use this to steal the throne from her--I'm hoping, hoping that we will actually get the BIG KADIR COMEUPPANCE this book! I don't see Naime being outsted and sent into Exile or having to fight for her throne back. Rather, I see Nesrin getting Naime the evidence she needs to oust Kadir... and then maybe him going and joining Mahkram's brother and being in all-out war with Naime... or even dying this book, and the conflict shifting to pure war with the neighboring country and Republic. So fingers crossed!!

The discovery of the glass--is this show Kadir made his cursed jewelry? Except he uses metal and precious stones. Are the bones in the kiln Reyhan's promised's? (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 36--(view spoiler)[The political pressure is turning up! I'm rather disappointed that the council seems to have NO competent people on it though--unless Kadir is somehow causing them to devolve into shouting matches? He's so slimy. He better get what's coming this book. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 39--(view spoiler)[Oh, what a sad chapter! But so well done too... from Nesrin's perspective, seeing the family mourn and say goodbye... it reminded me of being at my own father's deathbed, 13 years ago... my personal pain, but also knowing that death finally brought him peace from his terrible pain... And Naime's words, on how she wanted him to read to her again, laugh again... actually brought a tear to my eye (which is very hard for a book to do)--really encapsulated the cruelty of wasting diseases and memory diseases--the hope they give, of recovery, is the cruelest torture...

Naime's really hit rock bottom at this point. Love captured. Father dead. Country in turmoil. Enemy about to take away the only power she has to do anything about it... hoping we start turning upwards soon...

On other notes, a chapter or two ago, when Ihsan ran into Cemil in the garden--Cemil was TOTALLY trying to talk around his curse orders. Trying to warn him about Nesrin... gifts stolen from the Vizier are tainted... really made me look forward to rereading these books one day--going to have to comb through all of Cemil's lines for similar hints! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 40--(view spoiler)[Oh! An interesting bit of information about late-blooming mages! So that could be the source of the pain--just her body rejecting the magic that hasn't grown up with her.

I wonder if there will be a side romance for Ceylik & Havva. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 42 (view spoiler)[Interesting how Ihsan's truth-sense is confused by the fire--first of, the Pasha must also be wearing a cursed Sigil of some kind--but it seems like the pain it delivers acts the same way that pain during a lie-detector test would. At least in the movies.

Blacksmith... more likely glassworks. I bet Reyhan's promised is being held prisoner here to make the glass. And what does the glass do? Maybe make people irrational and likely to revolt? Give Kadir a connection through it? Though so far Nesrin is the only one to have a reaction to it.

And Ihsan? Don't trust the food! They're planning on killing you now that you know too much!

I don't know what Nesrin can do from so far away though. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 43 the first crack!--(view spoiler)[Khuzey earns his competence!! I'm currently thinking of him like the rat in Avengers: Endgame, that accidentally activated the device bringing Ant-Man back, which was the first domino to bringing everyone back. The ladies had better still be there when he gets back with the Sultana... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 44 (view spoiler)[OMG. I thought the name Osman to be a coincidence, since it was so common... but earlier, when he mentioned the Sultan with fondness... it's Osman Altimur, son of a major Merchant Guild Pasha... and most likely Cemil's father.

Ah f---! Kanat & Osman both crossbolted! Osman burned alive by the curse! Damn damn damn. And see? He mentions his son! Cemil must have been hostage for Osman's participation in Kadir's schemes...

Were they taking bone dust from the villagers' pyres??

Finally, someone in the Sultana's circle is starting to get some answers!

And oh those f---ers!! They set Nesrin's family's house on fire!!! But Ihsan gets to be awesome AND face his fears at the same time!

Finally! Lies are over! Whew! (hide spoiler)]

This book is totally my favorite so far.

Chapter 45 (view spoiler)[Well, seems that things can get worse.

And Kadir didn't want the war? Which one? With Sarkum, or the upcoming one with the Republic? He speaks of being unable to prevent it coming--the Sarkum one is already here, so I'm betting Republic--did the glass somehow tie into that? Was he working with the Republic... maybe offering them a way to control mages?

Nesrin--Her blood thumped in her body, in time with something else. Another thrum she did not know. A similar thing happened when she met the other Charah, like Benat--reacting to Cemil.

The darkness and death, the obsidian figure--Makram? Being held prisoner somewhere?

HAH! COMEUPPANCE! This should be enough evidence to ruin him--though I still don't know what direction things will take... I can see Kadir escaping, still. (hide spoiler)]

Yeah, I'm not stopping now. Going to finish!

Chapter 46 (view spoiler)[Nesrin causing magic to react more to emotions is an interesting cross-wheel effect.

And of course, if they let Cemil be executed, they will be ruining Naime's chance at standing the Wheel. Which would be Kadir's revenge.

I'm rather hoping Cemil's "I am my father's son, and I follow his example" refers to his real father, and how Osman fought his bonds at the end... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 47--(view spoiler)[I like the theory that creation magic must be woken by destruction. I wonder if that actually applies to Voids, like Cassian? And how it would work.

And then there's the problem of Makram... Even with a good 40 pages left to go in the book, I don't think we'll get resolution of that here. I'm thinking these glass vials must have something to do with magic control... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 49 (view spoiler)[Went back into the older books to see who was what of the circle:
Makram: Sword of the Circle
Aysel: Storm of the Circle
Amara: Justice of the Circle
and now Nesrin: Hope of the Circle

And for some reason now I'm thinking of that book that Cemil stole. That hasn't come back again yet. What was Kadir looking for? Or Cemil? Was it the book on Charah?

Hah! We called it! The Fig Tree lives! (hide spoiler)]

Finished! (view spoiler)[So it's out in the open. Someone finally said it! Charah of Fire. But the questions still unanswered. How? Why? And Kadir escaped--so there's still a lot left to wrap up and discover. (hide spoiler)]

Definitely my favorite so far!! A lot more tension in this book than the others, and I feel like the story is really well put together and the characters well realized. To me, this is the book that cinches the series. I really feel like the author has grown a lot since her first book--even her last book, actually--and she mentions in her acknowledgments how much time and effort this story took to bring forward. I feel like it shows! Really looking forward to the next one, and hoping that it flows easier for her--though I don't mind the wait if I get shiny quality either.

I was perusing the other reviews of the book, and one reviewer mentioned the next one will be called Mountain and Memory. Glad to see it has a working title! Hopefully that means she's working on it already.... I can hope!

Don't have a smartphone?!! :O Ahhh, ok makes some sense if you always have Goodreads open and ready for you to post on your computer.

Reading is my #1 hobby and I don't have a family to take care of, so other than work, this is my main time sink.

I mean even so, it's quite mind boggling, how you manage it! I'm single and pretty much responsibility-free too, but I do have facebook and instagram and have a scroll on breaks, have a little birb to look after and entertain, like to watch films on the weekends, and I guess it's also partly a conscious decision not to log on all the time as well.

I don't think there's any etiquette as such for social media and online groups tbh, everyone just does what's right for them.

Ah see with me, I'll take notes on my phone and sometimes I'll log in on the app and copy and paste if I'm short on time, but usually I like to log in on desktop and type them out (whilst also making them make sense lol). Tho, I'll never read other people's spoilers on the app or reply to them because you just can't do either easily.

You definitely are a book addict!

Ahhh, I knew you'd be finished!!

Re Chapters 12-15 spoilers (view spoiler)[ Growing Metaphors- Ha, there are a LOT of them and once you notice it once, all the rest just jump out at you. I also like her affinity with animals that I've seen so far, the sparrows in the garden, her cat of course etc. She kinda reminds me of Cinderella actually, with her temperament and outlook on life. Of course without having been abused by her family, but there was still the fact that she was sort of an outsider all her life by virtue of having "no magic".

Ihsan- Yeahh, 100% with you! What I found boggling is that he recognised in their first meeting that she's wasted away and that she's scared shitless, and even with being so absorbed by his own (justified) self pity, if he had enough perception to recognise it, he should've done at least something towards easing that. You know?

Yeah it's so true, like, he didn't even explain anything to her, or at least employ someone to show her the palace ropes, what she can expect, the politics etc. Ok, he's built his walls and wants to stay that way, but he could've done other things to help her out- he doesn't spend all his time wallowing, manages to perform his duties and engage in other things that interest him, so he's perfectly capable. And he knows she's being forced into it as much as him! So yeah, completely agree!

re: tree--I totally was thinking the same thing! Fingers crossed!!
Snap! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 21 (view spoiler)[ Ah, I see what you mean about the spelled jewellery; I caught that about Reyhan's bracelet. And also her husband being forced out of the merchant's guild has Kadir manipulation written all over it. Clearly exacting some sort of payment out of her. (hide spoiler)]

Lol Nirkatze just reading your chapter 21 spoiler and other thought, you sound like you're a private investigator or something! "Gathering evidence, More data"- :p hahaha!

Re Charah and Chapter 21 (view spoiler)[God, you remember much more of the ins and outs of the magic houses and how the lineage works then I do! No idea how you've managed to remember all that in such detail!

There's also the fact that Nesrin's village ARE villagers, so they're not going to have knowledge about the wider world or anything outside of it really. Yeah, I also assumed everyone in Tamar is a mage. Possibly more common to be a void in other countries...

Re Cemil- Oh shit! This is some impressive theorising! I wouldn't have even connected the dots!

Re Kadir- yeah I remembered the bracelet he tried to put on Amara too.

Agreed about Reyhan and also seeing the other characters, that was great! (hide spoiler)]

I'm definitely a constant lurker, even in threads I'm not always actively participating in, if I have even the slightest interest in the book, or the people reading the book :D

Personally, my situation is similar to Nirkatze, where reading is my main hobby (outside of idle gaming, which is intentionally designed to mesh well with my booking, so I don't play games that can't be played semi-mindlessly)...

That, plus my work schedule is deceptive... I work Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and from 4am to 12:30pm... so I mostly don't comment during times when people don't expect many comments anyway... and even then, I pop in on work breaks sometimes...

But then, if I'm just not feeling it, some days I don't say much, but that's hidden by how much I comment at other times, and how FAST I comment sometimes, because I hit refresh on my notifications so much, and sometimes catch comments within minutes/seconds...

Nirkatze is definitely better at commenting on 2 dozen different threads a day (EXCEPT FOR THE ONE THREAD I WANT HER TO COMMENT ON) :D

Then again, maybe it just feels that way, because your comments don't appear in your own feed...

re: reading--I used to read less--I blame Iain, for a combination of getting me in to audiobooks and also teaching me about FOMO. I often go through cycles where I feel more like playing games or watching TV or crafting, but am currently in a reading cycle. Is a birb a bird? I really want to get a cat... but I need to wait until my mom moves out because she's allergic... she's currently waiting for her new house to be built... I can see myself listening to an audiobook while playing with a cat though, lol. I can see how using the app would make it harder to post because of the spoilers issue... I've heard others mention that too. Seems like a big oversight on the GR developers part.

re: Chapter 12-15--(view spoiler)[ooh, I like your Cinderella comparison. And the note about even if she hasn't been abused by family, she's still been an outcast due to her lack of powers... add to that how all of the villagers have essentially been abused, by not having enough food to eat...

Love your Ihsan rant!! I think if the women in his life (Naime, Samira, Amara, Aysel, Deniz etc) weren't also worried about Nesrin maybe being the Vizier's creature, they'd've come down on him harder for being a complete ass. Still, I do like that they take him to task about it! (hide spoiler)]

re: Chapter 21--LOL I love books that let me be the investigator! (view spoiler)[Kadir being a manipulator--how does Naime & co not know this about him? Why doesn't she bring in Nesrin and be like, "Are you OK? Is Kadir being mean to you? We can help!" How many people ACTUALLY work for Kadir because they want to, anyway? Just bring in a Water mage (ie: Amara) and invite them for tea! Help them out!! (hide spoiler)]

re: details--It helps that I have all the ebooks and can search for things--when I can't remember specifics I just look up key words (like Sixth House) and scan text.

Really good point about how isolated villages wouldn't have most of the current news on things, even if it isn't necessarily a secret...

Really feel like this book is the one that brings everything together... we're getting a lot of the big payoffs for reading the series so far...

@Iain--which thread is that?

It was the vagabond thread, the first day I made the tentative 2024 plans... you answered the 2nd day...

Same with the Last Exit thread the day I did all my comments... just the thread that falls through the cracks, once a week :D

LOL Sorry! When there's a lot to reply to and a lot to think about it can take me a while to get back to... especially if it's mid-week... I also tend to reply to "easy" threads first...

Hellooo, I live... 😂I can't seem to get myself into reading book 0 even after all of October and so far with November, so I think it's a sign that I should probably get back to this one instead and will start this weekend. 😂

LOL Well, I did like this one a lot more than Wind & Wildfire--but then, #4 is totally my favorite so far.

Though you might pick up on secret seeded details more if you read book 0 first, you might also see where they come from if you do the reverse too...

I did book 0 on audio but have eyeread all the rest... that helped me get through my prequel prejudice.

Yay, Mei! I thought you just dropped off with the BRs cos you needed to mood read! Yeah would love to hear your comments on this one. Wind and Wildfire was definitely the weakest out of the lot for me so far, I wouldn't be too keen to read that one again.

Re Chapters 12-15 (view spoiler)[Ihsan rant- well I don't think Deniz would come down hard on him, because she seems to still hate Nesrin! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 21 (view spoiler)[ Manipulator Kadir- well of course Naime and the others know that's Kadir's nature, but I guess they have no idea how closely aligned Nesrin is with him, if she truly supports what he's set out to acheive, so it would be too risky taking her aside and asking those sort of things. (hide spoiler)]

Re details: Ebooks- I'm reading on a Kindle- it's never occurred to me to search stuff! I'd still find it difficult to piece together, even if I had all the info in front of me lol.

Chapter 24 (view spoiler)[She smelled like his garden. Flowers and sunshine and wind and rain. Life.

Indeed!

I loved how Evans handled all the emotions in this chapter- Ihsan initially feeling angry, panicked and overwhelmed, then vulnerable to Nesrin, open to her emotions, and realising how much he had missed being close to someone. And all of Nesrin's reactions- her frustration and anger at Ihsan determined to be a closed book, her sadness when talking about her brother and feeling overwhelmed from missing her family and needing someone to hold onto, to realising she's gotten too close to Ihsan and panicking and fearful of betraying his trust. Masterfully done and a really nice believable, solid little moment between them. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 27 (view spoiler)[She's somehow dreaming of the place the Charah's go to, but of course there's nothing there as it's yet to be seen if there are any other creation mages about anywhere. So she can only vaguely see the other Charahs at the moment. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 30 (view spoiler)[Oh shit, you might be right about Cemil not being Behram's- the sultan thinking he was Osman in the library- wasn't the woman who ended up marrying Behram in love with him? I think so...(Finding it a bit hard to remember!) (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 31 (view spoiler)[Really loved the gentle moments in their kisses here; this has to be one of my fave physical scenes, also loved all of the emotions running through them at the same time and how that affected their reactions. (hide spoiler)]

re: Ebooks--it's even easier for me with ebook editing software on my computer--really easy to flip through and not mess with where I am in a book. ^^

re: 15 & 21--true on Deniz & Naime & co on Kadir--but I'm still disappointed in them!

Though Deniz redeems herself a bit later.

re: Chapter 24--so true! I really feel like this book in general shows how much Evans has matured as a writer... everything feels much more natural, forceful fingerprints all wiped away.

re: Chapter 27--(view spoiler)[That was my interpretation also, and I think it's really interesting, how she's getting connections from the other Charah in that space!! And the call of "wake" that keeps echoing... the feeling that maybe, other life mages are out there... but have to be awoken... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 30--(view spoiler)[Yup--Sultan's friend Osman had an affair with Zehra before she was engaged to the Sultan--then when he rejected her (she's an earth-mage, he convinced his dad that if he wants another mmm... telepathy air-mage, he needed to marry an air-mage) she got married to Kadir instead... And Osman was a known womanizer... she was crying at one point in the book, Sultan accidentally found a memory of her seeing Osman getting busy in an alleyway with another woman...

Above details are not impressive memory, but impressive search ability. ^^ (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 31 had lots of "awwwww" from me.

Sheesh you've already replied, I still wanted to read through yours and see what you said! *shakes head* lol.

Re your Chapter 24- 31 spoilers

(view spoiler)[I don't think she has any allergies or eating disorders, not at all, she loves food! It's purely that she's starved herself and now her body has no idea how to process it all. I wish she had eased herself back into eating,- she's knowledgeable about food so could've gone about it smartly- it was making my stomach turn seeing her get ill after eating so much!

I want Nesrin to confide in Ihsan or the Sultana--they haven't really given her any reason to trust them any more than the Vizier at this point.

Well this is exactly it and it's annoying cos WE know all of their true selves! But I can see how that sort of trope can get frustrating, particularly if it's not logically thought out, which thankfully, is not the case here.

Food descriptions- Yes I noticed that too! I was like; Mmmm, I wouldn't mind some lamb or the eggs that she made... haha. Yeah, I think Evans is pretty great at it, and she makes it different and interesting every time. I was thinking to myself that that's such a strong writing skill to have; it seems like something so innocuous but it makes a massive impact to the reader whether they realise it or not. And also just to make the world seem that much more real.

You just reminded me actually, I kept wondering what "Labneh" is, just looked it up; "Labneh is a tangy Middle Eastern dairy spread made by straining yogurt to a creamy, cheese-like consistency, often garnished with olive oil and herbs and served as part of a mezze."

I don't think I've ever had Middle Eastern food tbh. Well, I went to Turkey as a teenager, but I'm not sure we sampled much of the cuisine, I certainly can't remember, it's been so long now. I also once went to a Lebanese restaurant in London, but I also can't remember it being great or even that the food was very noticeable. It's not really a cuisine that I see about much, not as popular as Indian, Mexican, Chinese, Thai etc.. Probably just a matter of not being exposed to the actual authentic dishes..

Re Osman; Ahhh, thanks for reminding me, it's already blurry. Yes, I thought that was the case. The only thing I was wondering though, is that I can't remember what Osman's powers were and how it was possible for them to have a fire mage, if neither was one. And how Behram knew that Cemil was one? Cos that seems to me to be the only reason he would've kept a child that was not his, I really don't think he'd have abided it if it was not of his house...

Re Chapter 31- Yes, I also had the thought that Cemil might've pulled Ihsan out too, that's the only thing that makes sense. (If he's gonna have a redemption arc, it had better be a bloody good one cos I do quite deeply dislike him- Evans done her job too well on his evil side!)

Ah at the mention of Nesrin's magic, you reminded me, I've been wondering about how it will finally manifest, if she will realise it, or someone else will see it in her. I wonder how it will work since it's pretty much unprecedented, and we haven't even had examples of average life mages as with the others, to get a feel for what it's like. (Even though the Charahs' magic seems to manifest a bit different for them).

"Bow-chicka-wow-wow"- Hahaha (hide spoiler)]

Re Chapter 27 (view spoiler)[ I was wondering how she's managing to get to that space with no assistance and the fact that she doesn't even know she has power. I also thought the same about the wake call- was wondering who or where it was coming from- though now that I think about it, I'd expect Nesrin to bet the one to call out and wake other life mages somehow... Very intriguing. (hide spoiler)]