Reading the 20th Century discussion

Welcome to our November 2023 group read of...



Brideshead Revisited

by

Evelyn Waugh


The most nostalgic and reflective of Evelyn Waugh's novels, Brideshead Revisited looks back to the golden age before the Second World War. It tells the story of Charles Ryder's infatuation with the Marchmains and the rapidly-disappearing world of privilege they inhabit. Enchanted first by Sebastian at Oxford, then by his doomed Catholic family, in particular his remote sister, Julia, Charles comes finally to recognize only his spiritual and social distance from them.

I intend to spend this weekend - when not working - happily listening to Jeremy Irons and this novel. One of my top ten, all time, favourite reads.

I have to agree


I’m holding off for a bit longer 🤠

I've just finished listening to the audiobook - and my feelings about this book are all over the place! Looking forward to being able to sort them out somewhat by discussing it here.

I'm planning to read this and the Sarah Waters later in the week, I've read both of them before so confident I'll want to finish them. And both raise questions so looking forward to the discussions too. The first time I read the Waugh was in my teens and got caught up in the period stuff and basically dodged the religious aspects, the second time I got muddled by them, so wondering what the third read will be like!

Exciting 👏🏻

Indeed Nigey. I'm not going to read anyone's reviews for a while, it's so long since I've read the Waugh, I can't actually fully recall the ending, so want to be, at least a little bit, surprised.

Exciting, indeed - I'm looking forward to some fruitful discussions. And yes, good reminder to everyone to stay spoiler free till everyone's finished reading.

Having just re-experienced Brideshead, I almost can't think of a better book to be reading alongside/after it than The Little Stranger - lucky us!

I am unsure whether I can be unbiased about Brideshead. Despite its flaws (which Waugh also noted) I love it so much and it is one of those novels which made me fall in love with reading and which I read when young, which I think makes a difference.

I have embarked on The Little Stranger, which I have only read once before.

I don't think there's any need for you to be unbiased, Susan - I'm not even sure what that means in a book context. We're all passionate readers here so feel free to love this book unreservedly 🥰

I completely agree that Waugh's writing is gorgeous as is his evocation of nostalgia and loss, powerful emotions that we can all understand.

I am interested in how Brideshead is in conversation with Proust and The Great Gatsby - and how Waters reopens that dialogue with The Little Stranger. Lots to discuss for sure.

I am enjoying The Little Stranger already. The country house in decline is something which Waugh touches on. It is, indeed, a lost world.

Context is everything


Reading books with a 2023 sensibility will always be a different experience to reading something decades ago as a younger person

I am looking forward to my reread - it will be my 3rd or 4th read

Absolutely. You are uncritical when younger - well, I was, but sometimes it's enough that a book touches you and shows you something outside your own life.

Oh yes, completely agree about how our responses to books change over time. I was also a fairly uncritical reader the first time I read Brideshead when I was 18. This must be my third or fourth time too.

And yes, Susan, that is one of the greatest things about literature, that it can move us on a deep level that is beyond reason or the intellect - I'm sure that's something we all feel here.

Very glad to have found Brideshead on Kindle for 81p. Now, to start my 3rd reading!

Quick question. Should I avoid spoilers here or does everyone know the plot and the ending?

Never mind. I just reread Alwynne’s post!

I hope to start this soon - hopefully within the next seven days

Having listened to the Audible of this I decided to do the same with The Little Stranger and am really enjoying the comparison. I am pleased we did both books, as they are extremely complementary. It is also interesting that Brideshead opens with Charles being billeted there as a soldier in WWII while The Little Stranger kind of continues that theme, being fairly shortly after the war. It is almost a continuation of the theme of the Big House and its role in the life of the countryside. Without giving spoilers of the plot of Brideshead, one of the most striking parts of change was how the train would previously stop at Brideshead, but, later, the family had to go to the nearest station and make their way back.

Ben wrote: "Quick question. Should I avoid spoilers here or does everyone know the plot and the ending?"

I don't mind Ben, I'll just avoid the thread, I just meant that I wouldn't read R. C.'s review yet or other recent ones that crop up on my feed! But I thought we weren't due to start discussions until next week?

Discussion start dates are somewhat fluid and notional, despite the dates

I’d suggest we avoid plot spoilers until everyone who is reading has finished

Underway with this one now


It's easy to overlook the opening and closing chapters given so much happens inbetween, but that opening chapter is a Waugh masterclass. It sums up the tedium, pettiness and dysfunction of army life by just a glimpse into a moment complete with a few powerful characterisations.

Yes, I agree that we shouldn't ignore the beginning and end that bookend the Brideshead story - it's a bit Proust-like in that the majority of the book is Charles' memories, with the house itself as his madeleine.

It's also notable that those are the places where we hear from 'normal' non-elite voices from the soldiers.

I was thinking of it more in terms of that subgenre revolving around the outsider beguiled, particularly the middle-class conventional character in awe - then often disillusioned - by the glittering upper classes. I was struck by how closely more recent books like The Line of Beauty mirror Waugh's novel, albeit with a queer, lefty slant.

Yes, there's definitely that there too - but I wonder how far Charles is disillusioned by the Marchmains? Great topic to discuss later.

I've only read one Hollinghurst, not The Line Of Beauty, but am intrigued by the book. Thanks. I agree that the disillusionment is writ large in that opening section Alywnne.

Yes. I hadn't thought about the Proustian elements RC. The non-elite voices are an important factor too. WW2 would prove to be another seismic societal shift in the same way as WW1

Roman Clodia wrote:


"I wonder how far Charles is disillusioned by the Marchmains? Great topic to discuss later."

As I recall he was in love with the entire family just as Evelyn Waugh fell in love with the Lygon family who he drew on heavily for the Marchmains.

I think by the end he realises that period was always going to be ephemeral even though it was probably the most significant period in his life. So Charles probably had mixed feelings and disillusionment would certainly be part of a heady cocktail of emotions.

Nigeyb wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote:


"I wonder how far Charles is disillusioned by the Marchmains? Great topic to discuss later."

As I recall he was in love with the entire family just as Evelyn Waugh fell in l..."

I like that interpretation particularly thinking of Sebastian's fall from grace, as it were! I don't enjoy Hollinghurst that much, find his prose a bit stiff but Line of Beauty is great as a critique of Thatcherism and Tory hypocrisy/sleaze - if you like that kind of thing which I do.

Susan wrote: "Having listened to the Audible of this I decided to do the same with The Little Stranger and am really enjoying the comparison. I am pleased we did both books, as they are extremely complementary. ..."

Love the point about the trains, and I agree the books work well as a double bill - did we plan that or was it just happenstance?

Alwynne wrote:


"Line of Beauty is great as a critique of Thatcherism and Tory hypocrisy/sleaze - if you like that kind of thing which I do"

Me too - thanks


"I like that interpretation particularly thinking of Sebastian's fall from grace, as it were!"

Ah yes, Grace. That's going to be coming up a lot isn't it?

I may need to re-read the beginning and ending but I think of Charles as feeling like he's been expelled from the 'paradise' of the Marchmains which he resents and still longs for - but I'm not sure in my head that kind of nostalgia is disillusionment, is it?

I'm not a Hollinghurst fan either and haven't tried Line of Beauty - but yep, always up for the exposure of Tory sleaze! I wonder if it feels relatively innocent compared to where we are today?

We didn't plan Brideshead and Little Stranger but they tied in the group poll so we decided to do them both.

Perhaps I’m projecting my own feelings and/or misremembering? I had it in my mind he was both nostalgic and disillusioned. 🤔

I’ll return to the point when I’ve finished this reread.

I think we can agree he loves the family, and I thought is ultimately rejected by them?

The question I'm wrestling with as I read through (now 50% done) is what exactly does Charles love? Sebastian clearly. The House certainly. The wealth? The ease and style and charm? The power?

I haven't reached Julia yet. She is still a selfish, spoiled -- I won't continue.

I'll keep reading.

Having read Waugh's biography, he was embarrassed by a perfectly respectable upper middle-class lifestyle. His father a publisher, nice house. Yet, he walked a distance to post letters with a different postmark. There is no suggestion that Charles is a snob and he has a cousin, Jasper, at Oxford, who seems quite comfortable and at home. Could it be that there is a hint that Charles liking for the disreputable set hints at his artistic ways, which have not yet been revealed. There is no hint, at that point, that he will end up as an artist.

I like Anthony Blanche more this time round and found him more perceptive than I recalled.

We know Charles at Oxford is enjoying the childhood he never had due to his family history, so that’s part of the appeal. Also the gilded, privileged existence is so at odds with his own background. Plus he never really had a family life. Why wouldn’t he fall in love with them?

Oh yes, that story of Waugh walking a distance to post his letters so they didn't have the 'wrong' postcode - Golders Green, I think? Didn't he want it to be Hampstead or St John's Wood instead? So absurd!

Ben wrote: "The question I'm wrestling with as I read through (now 50% done) is what exactly does Charles love? Sebastian clearly. The House certainly. The wealth? The ease and style and charm? The power?"

Yep, all of it, I'd say. His feelings get especially heinous around his wife and child...

One thing I wonder is whether we all get seduced by the lavish series and films with their beautiful lead actors and maybe lose a little of our usual judgement? So we might all be versions of Charles, perhaps, when reading this book?

Also, and without spoilers, it's worth thinking about to what extent the Marchmains have happy lives - something else to discuss when we've all finished reading.

Good point RC - and plenty to discuss there


I got a lot from reading Mad World: Evelyn Waugh and the Secrets of Brideshead by Paula Byrne and I was amazed at the extent to which it was based on Evelyn Waugh's own experiences and those of people he knew.

The real story is far more surprising and tragic than the backstory hinted at in Brideshead Revisited. Just as Charles falls in love with the Marchmains, so Evelyn Waugh fell in love with the Lygon family who he drew on heavily for the Marchmains.

The big difference is the Lord Marchmain character in Brideshead Although Evelyn Waugh drew heavily on Lord Beauchamp (the Lygon patriarch) for Lord Marchmain there was one significant difference. In deference to the Lygon family, he removed almost all traces of Lord Beauchamp's homosexuality. His sexuality was at the centre of a scandal that caused his downfall, and tragic exile from England.

One other little nugget from Paula Byrne's book, Saint Sebastian is the patron saint of homosexuals, and the inspiration for the naming of Sebastian Flyte.

I also loved Mad World and found it an excellent companion to Brideshead.

If I recall, it was Lord Beauchamp's brother-in-law who forced him into exile, where he missed his children terribly. Apparently, when told about him, King George V said, 'I thought men like that shot themselves.' One of his younger sons was dating one of Beauchamp's daughters, but, after the scandal, this was quickly stopped.

Susan wrote:


"I like Anthony Blanche more this time round"


The stories he tells Charles during their dinner are fantastic. What a raconteur.

The way AB tells the Mercury story is hiliarious

Susan wrote:


"If I recall, it was Lord Beauchamp's brother-in-law who forced him into exile"

That rings a bell

Charles’s father is amusing - all those synonyms for being short of money 🤠

I’d completely forgotten about the old 100th incident

I read this book earlier this year, and after reading it I started watching the British TV series, which I had never seen before.

My impression of the book is the Charles is a more middle-class guy who is initially impressed by the lavish lifestyle at Brideshead, but after getting to know them, he realizes that the family is a bit of a mess. At the beginning of the novel, when he returns to Brideshead, he is nostalgic for his youthful adventures, before life became more complicated.

I'm halfway through now


Charles is having dinner with Rex after Sebastian has given him the slip. The dinner scene is just one of many examples of the sublime writing on display in this novel. The intricate descriptions of the food contrasting with Rex's less subtle approach to life and all its charms.

I wonder if Waugh might have slighly over egged Rex's somewhat crass personality. What do you think?

So many books written around this time have a lot of food fantasising in them, don't they? I can well understand, during a time of rationing and limited choices, where it would be quite therapeutic to write a menu!

Rex is obviously not as crass as he is portrayed. When they are all in the clink, he is the one who takes control.

Excellent point Susan. I'm smiling imagining Mr W coming up with the most absurdly delicious meal he could think of in a period of privation.

Rex is certainly very capable and astute. Examples of his crassness would include insisting on an old liquor on the basis of a prejudice that the bottle has to be covered in dust with Napoleonic insignia, and then in a tulip glass which has been warmed to his instruction. Or "squaring off" Lord Marchmain to secure the hand of Julia. Everything seems to be about ostentation and conspicuous consumption with him. Dare I say it (and within the world of the novel), he lacks the refinement that defines the true gentleman.