The Old Curiosity Club discussion

Chapters 4-7 are officially titled, “The Party,” “The Studio,” “Progression,” and “The Excursion,” and I have to admit I had to go back and check to see what had Progressed in Chapter 6, because I couldn’t remember much happening. I’m enjoying the reading a lot (I had to stop myself from reading ahead, always a good sign), but I’m struck by how very little plot unfolds in this book. There is a party. There are some visits. The visits progress into more visits. People decide to walk to the sea one day.

Let me try again. There’s are many romantic moves being made, and none of them all that well. Gilbert and a new character in the book, Mr. Lawrence, the landlord of Wildfell Hall, do a fair amount of flirting: Gilbert with poor Eliza Milford (I am going to call her Poor Eliza from here forward, I think) and Lawrence with ambitious Jane Wilson, before admitting to each other that neither of them is serious about their flirtations. If you ask me—or if you ask Gilbert’s mother, with whom I am shocked to find myself in agreement—it is irresponsible bordering on cruel, to lead on these girls who don’t appear to have any other prospects. Send Poor Eliza and ambitious Jane to London!

Gilbert is also getting better acquainted with Mrs. Graham, who interests him far more than Eliza does. I can’t tell if she likes him or not, but she continues to be surrounded in intrigue. We learn she is a painter, and Gilbert and Rose visit her in her studio, where Gilbert asks her about a painting of a man whose face she has turned to the wall. Of course she refuses to answer. Hm. A man whom her son Arthur calls “Mamma’s friend” turns up, and Mrs. Graham goes urgently out to talk with him, and returns to say he’s “Only some one come about the pictures.” Hm. Mr. Lawrence is unduly concerned with Gilbert’s attentions to Mrs. Graham. Hm—or as Mr. Lawrence would say, humph! Mrs. Graham appears to attract mysterious men like--ugh, all my similes involve flies and are too unattractive to be fair to Mrs. Graham. You get the idea.

In our last set of chapters, ambition was a repeated theme. In this set, I am noticing a lot of attention to women’s roles. Mrs. Markham thinks Poor Eliza is a “trifling” lightweight who would make a terrible wife. She explains to Rose that a good wife has: “only two things to consider, first, what’s proper to be done, and secondly, what’s most agreeable to the gentlemen of the house—any thing will do for the ladies.” Rose is highly skeptical, and Gilbert is mildly skeptical: he suggests maybe making the other person happy ought to run both ways in a marriage. Should we give points to Gilbert for saying such a thing, or no points at all since talk is cheap? What do you think of Gilbert? I thought his character was going to be defined by the first chapter’s talk of ambition, but that seems to have evaporated now, unless we can count his interest in Mrs. Graham as some sign of ambition?

Despite all the talk, I am not sure this book cares what an ideal woman should look like, which I find refreshing. Mrs. Graham is kind of the Cool Girl, and Poor Eliza is kind of the Baby Girl, and Miss Milford is the Dutiful Girl, and Mrs. Markham is—I don’t know, Gilbert calls her ambitious, but I can’t say a woman whose take on men is “he hardly ever spoiled my cookery by delay—and that’s as much as any woman can expect” is seething with ambition, exactly. I took that quote a tiny bit out of context (since she mentioned a few more of her husband’s other qualities as well) but not much. Maybe Mrs. Markham is an original?

Also I think Mary Lou pegged Fergus better than I did at the start. He does seem less most-likely-to-get-in-gambling-debt and more of a Tristan Farnon now.

I'm happy, and, I admit, somewhat relieved to say that I'm quite enjoying this novel! Julie is correct in saying that there's not a lot of action so far; no murders, no car chases, not even any lingering illnesses. We have a minor mystery regarding Mrs. Graham's past, but Fergus is doing his best to get to the bottom of that. I find him delightfully artless, and I think Mrs. Graham (who, to my knowledge, still has no Christian name?) does as well. While Rose and Gilbert were appalled by Fergus's direct queries, as well as his admittance that Mrs. Graham was the main source of chatter among the neighbors, Mrs. Graham (obviously aware of this) seemed amused by it all. And I admire her for not succumbing to the pressure, but keeping private those things she wasn't ready to divulge.

We have several quiet characters. I'd have to give it some thought, but I don't recall too many central introverted characters in other books. Mary Bennet. Tom Pinch, perhaps? Certainly not several in one small group. Richard and Mary seem to share a quiet but pleasant companionship, and I hope we see that develop. I don't know what to make of our landlord, Mr. Lawrence, just yet. I expect surprises from him. I loved this quote from Mrs. G:

I dislike an extensive acquaintance; but if I have a few friends, of course I am glad to see them occasionally... if you choose to enter my house as a friend, I will make you welcome; if not, I must confess, I would rather you kept away.

BOOM. How many people wish they had the nerve to come right out and say that? :-)

Along with ambition and the role of women, I can see that moderation vs. excess will also be a theme going forward. Let your moderation be known unto all men!" I looked it up and, as I suspected, the vicar was giving us a Bible verse - Philippians 4:5. Like Dickens, I think Anne has a lot to say about Christianity and organized religion, but I don't know yet what her thoughts are.

I laughed when Julie said, "I am going to call her Poor Eliza from here forward" because I had started calling her that in my mind, as well. I think Gilbert's intentions were honest... until they weren't. But he really does need to extract himself from that entanglement sooner than later. I didn't have the pleasure of visiting Brontë country while in England, so I can only imagine the setting, but it seems as if the little company we've been introduced to is about all there is, at least in that marriageable age range. If Mrs. Markham doesn't want Gilbert with either Eliza or Mrs. G, who else is there for a young farmer? Will our group, as Julie recommends, be able to get to a metropolitan area where there are more options? (Where did Halford come from, I wonder?)

We often talked about some of Dickens' writing as being theatrical. Reading Wildfell Hall is almost like watching a movie. I can see it all so clearly. Brontë does an excellent job of putting us right in the scene. And, for me, it's a scene I enjoy being in. It's very pleasant to be a fly on these walls.

Mary Lou wrote: "I didn't have the pleasure of visiting Brontë country while in England, so I can only imagine the setting, but it seems as if the little company we've been introduced to is about all there is, at least in that marriageable age range. If Mrs. Markham doesn't want Gilbert with either Eliza or Mrs. G, who else is there for a young farmer?"

I very much want to visit Brontë country. I have a couple of friends who recently hiked through it on their way walking all across England, and I have insisted on getting their notes. Maybe some day...

I did wonder as well who Mrs. M expects Gilbert to marry if it's not one of the available people we've already met. Maybe he is not to marry at all, and she will look after him, and the family he alluded to in his opening letter is the same family we have now. I assumed the "family" there meant he had married and had children, but I guess that doesn't have to be so.

I need to do some thinking about why this story is compelling even if it's slow. I do think Brontë's sharp understanding of different characters and their relationships is a help. It's just fun to listen to these people talk to each other. (I think Gilbert seems a little smug, though--not quite sure any of the locals is worth his time, male or female. Possibly his mother feeds that.)

Julie wrote: "Chapters 4-7 are officially titled, “The Party,” “The Studio,” “Progression,” and “The Excursion,” and I have to admit I had to go back and check to see what had Progressed in Chapter 6, because I ..."

Yes, people do like to visit. Somehow, though, I’m glad I wasn’t invited. “The Party” is a rather frigid affair. I found it short on interesting character revelations. It’s probably unfair to compare a this party to one in Jane Austen, but I kept hoping for more interesting revelations or events to occur. Gilbert and Eliza are frosty at best but who can’t love Gilbert’s mother? She saves the day for me.

Mrs Graham continues to remain a step ahead of the males who seem to become more attracted to her each meeting. Between Gilbert and Mr Laurence we may have some rivalry brewing.

The best parts of this week”s reading came from Mrs Graham’s art studio. There must be more to be discovered there than the one picture turned against the wall. That picture alone is a wonderful problem to unravel later in the novel.

Mary Lou wrote: "I'm happy, and, I admit, somewhat relieved to say that I'm quite enjoying this novel! Julie is correct in saying that there's not a lot of action so far; no murders, no car chases, not even any lin..."

Love your BOOM Mary Lou. How many times have I itched to say something similar. Perhaps I will simply take Mrs G’s words and use them myself.

Good comments on religion! I missed that entirely. Perhaps Mr Bronte said those same words from his pulpit or in the parsonage. I think your suspicions of Anne and Dickens may well be true. Another point to keep our eyes open to in the coming chapters.

Julie and Mary Lou

Once upon a time, in April of 1973 to be exact, I took my first university student pilgrimage to England and went to Haworth. Stunning. Fifty some years later I still recall my impressions vividly. It was so bleak, and yet stunning. Many small streams, quaint stone bridges and seemingly endless dry stone walls ran across the undulating landscape. I stayed in a small hotel and was the only tourist in the entire hotel. The Bronte Heritage museum was wonderful. Again, I was the only visitor in it.

Alas, I imagine Haworth is much busier now but definitely a place to visit. It is a stunning place to see and experience.

Peter wrote: "Gilbert and Eliza are frosty at best but who can’t love Gilbert’s mother? She saves the day for me."

I didn't expect her to turn out to be such a favorite! Wonder if it will hold.

Peter wrote: "Julie and Mary Lou

Once upon a time, in April of 1973 to be exact, I took my first university student pilgrimage to England and went to Haworth. Stunning. Fifty some years later I still recall my ..."

Glad to hear it was worth it! I am all for the university student pilgrimage.

Julie wrote: "Peter wrote: "who can’t love Gilbert’s mother? She saves the day for me."

For me, the jury is still out. She was pretty intrusive at her first meeting with Mrs. G, but perhaps that will somehow become more endearing as we get to know her better.

Unrelated to Tenant, I'd never heard of a student pilgrimage until my daughter's friend was studying Dracula and his class took a trip to Romania! It probably would have been more fun to major in English Lit instead of History and PoliSci. But I did get to some literary sites in England - some Dickens sites, Beatrix Potter's Hilltop, and Alf Wight's (aka James Herriot's) Thirsk, on which Darrowby was based. When I was a kid we visited Mark Twain's home, but I don't remember it.

Mary Lou wrote: "Julie wrote: "Peter wrote: "who can’t love Gilbert’s mother? She saves the day for me."

For me, the jury is still out. She was pretty intrusive at her first meeting with Mrs. G, but perhaps that w..."

Mark Twain's home is remarkable! I go to literary homes/monuments pretty much whenever I can.

I am not much of a Hemingway fan but weirdly we have visited two Hemingway sites, both of which were fascinating. We went to his house in Cuba because my husband was teaching study abroad there, and it has been left *exactly* as it was when Hemingway walked out the door and never came back and left the house to the Cuban people (he did not pack first, or even clear his desk). And we went to his gravesite in Idaho where pilgrims leave pens and cigarettes and whiskey bottles, as if that man needed more whiskey.