The Sword and Laser discussion

We're huge fans of mushrooms! Fourth Wing is EVERYWHERE. And remember, the very aspects of a novel you might not fancy could be the same ones that captivate someone else.

https://soundcloud.com/swordandlaser/...
http://swordandlaser.com/home/2023/11...
https://www.patreon.com/posts/476-don...

In Canada, mushrooms don't cause gas.

Plain mushrooms or mice mushrooms?

Liked the episode. And I even liked the book pick (even if the book wasn't my favorite) since I wouldn't have picked it for myself, and that's half of the point of being in a book club.

Regarding the flowery language: I always found it interesting that it is recommended in English to always (or at least most of the time) use "said" in order not to draw attention to the word, while in German it seems the opposite. At least, in school, kids were always downgraded for "repetitious language" if they used "said" twice in a row, so we were always encouraged to find synonyms...

I don't know if that's an English vs German thing though, or a professional writing vs school teachings thing.

How is it in different languages?

I don't mind the author using "said" repeatedly in text, but I do find it annoying in audio, he effused.

The brain does seem to skip over it when reading, but it just seems to stand out when listening, he uttered.

I'd rather the narrator distinguish between the voices, and also have a different tone for inner thought and vocal dialogue than repeated say "said", he expressed.

I haven't listened to the podcast yet, so I'm missing some context, however when I was at school in the UK a *cough* few decades ago, we were very much told to avoid repeated use of "said".

Oaken looked up. “It is easy to convey who is talking without even using the a verb like said.”

“I disagree,” said the man in the jaunty hat.

Oaken looked at him askance, “Well then you are wrong.”

There was some interesting talk about this last time they interviewed Bobiverse author Dennis E. Taylor (at least I think I remember there was). He was saying he even tried to write a different version for the audiobook author that left out repetitious "saids" to make it less jarring. I think he concluded it was too cumbersome to pull off, but it's interesting.

Certainly, when listening, I'd rather just have the narrator do a different voice and tone to denote each character than for them to read all the "saids." Like Tassie Dave, when I'm reading I don't really care. I'm much more likely to be thrown out of a narrative by "she expostulated" than even 50 "she saids" in a row.

I think Redshirts by Scalzi has a ton of "said", very noticeable in the audiobook.

Tamahome wrote: "I think Redshirts by Scalzi has a ton of "said", very noticeable in the audiobook."

I was going to say the exact same thing! The constant repetition of “said” in the audiobook was an annoyance in an otherwise very enjoyable book. I remember thinking “couldn’t Wil Wheaton have dropped a few of these? I doubt Scalzi would have thrown a temper tantrum.”

I think I remember us talking about it on Goodreads when we read it (alternate pick).

Definitely. I also think Scalzi has reflected that in his early books, he realized after they were done that he was overusing those “said”s.

terpkristin wrote: "Definitely. I also think Scalzi has reflected that in his early books, he realized after they were done that he was overusing those “said”s."

Scalzi said...

https://twitter.com/scalzi/status/133...

Sorry about the confusing post about the new James S.A. Corey book. I should have put "According to Ty" qualifier. The live feed was at 1 am for me, so that was a 3 am post.

^ Made me flash on "Letters at 3 AM," which used to be a column by Michael Ventura in the LA Weekly. I miss those columns.

Seth wrote: "... Certainly, when listening, I'd rather just have the narrator do a different voice and tone to denote each character than for them to read all the "saids." Like Tassie Dave, when I'm reading I don't really care. I'm much more likely to be thrown out of a narrative by "she expostulated" than even 50 "she saids" in a row."

Agreed. Different voices or tones work better for audio.

Stephen wrote: "Sorry about the confusing post about the new James S.A. Corey book. I should have put "According to Ty" qualifier. The live feed was at 1 am for me, so that was a 3 am post."

Orianthi - According To You, stay for the tapping guitar solo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu1aQ...

For the record real bread does not have sugar in it.

Um what now? Every bread I’ve made from scratch including white, wheat, brioche, and rye has a small amount of sugar in it. Not a lot, but a little goes a long way to keeping dough wet and pliable.

I believe it's one of those European things like with cheese and wine where they have strict definitions of certain products in order to protect its integrity. There was a big thing in the news a couple years ago about how Subway's bread wasn't bread because it had too much sugar.

Too much doesn’t mean “none”. Even Paul Hollywood’s bread recipes include a small amount of sugar 😜

Mmm, my intermittent fasting / controlled carb plan is very anti sugar and most grains. Sourdough bread gets a pass as the least bad option. None of the ones I've bought listed sugar as an ingredient. Apparently sourdough's effect on blood sugar is less than other breads altho the mechanism is not clear.

Yeah I think sourdoughs don’t generally have sugar but even generic white bread has a small amount.

I'm not really sure it is an argument you can make either way about bread in general. Every bread I've made from scratch has no sugar. I use this a lot, for example:

Flour Water Salt Yeast: The Fundamentals of Artisan Bread and Pizza A Cookbook

But certainly there are enriched breads that have milk, eggs, sugar, and so on. Commercial bread (think Wonderbread) - probably the most common kind sold in stores here - is loaded with sugar. But then NAmerican food manufacturers have learned that adding sugar (or, often, corn syrup) to all kinds of things is a great way to make people buy more.

I mostly stick to rice... I was doing Asian Haiga rice which is like halfway to brown, but it might have been giving me more gas.

Sword & Laser Bread

As a German I am forced to comment that the soft stuff North Americans call bread is not really bread.

We call it "Toastbrot" (even when not toasted) to distinguish it from the real bread!

I remember my trip to Munich, walking into a bakery and ordering Hausbrot. That was the bread you eat like a meal (riff on sloppy joe's commercial.)

Hm, now I'm flashing on some great Brats, liter steins of beer and an awesome clocktower. Forget London. Let's have Mystery at Muenchen!

Bavarian "Hausbrot" is one of over 3,000 registered kinds of German bread (I mean, of course Germany has something like a "bread register"...) and German bread culture is an official "UNESCO Intangible Cultural Heritage" thing!

It's a cliche that the thing Germans abroad are missing the most, is German bread ;-)

I'm pretty sure that it's a French thing -- you can only call it a baguette if the only ingredients are flour, salt, yeast and water; otherwise, it's sparkling bread.

Joseph wrote: "; otherwise, it's sparkling bread."

I laughed.

Joseph wrote: "I'm pretty sure that it's a French thing -- you can only call it a baguette if the only ingredients are flour, salt, yeast and water; otherwise, it's sparkling bread."

LOL!!

Is that like a sparkling vampire?

Or like the German Reinheitsgebot for Beer, allowing only water, malt and hops (and yeast).

John (Taloni) wrote: "I remember my trip to Munich, walking into a bakery and ordering Hausbrot. That was the bread you eat like a meal (riff on sloppy joe's commercial.)

Hm, now I'm flashing on some great Brats, liter..."

Currywurst and fries. Gallons of beer.

When I went to Munich, it was glühwein. Sooo good. I love the Christmas markets.

You can also find glühbier - less common that glühwein but equally tasty. I love the Christmas markets too :-)

Jan wrote: "Or like the German Reinheitsgebot for Beer, allowing only water, malt and hops (and yeast)."
We had a restaurant here, not sure if it is still around, made bread with yeast and the lees from making beer at the craft brewery down the street. Was so good.

Iain wrote: "For the record real bread does not have sugar in it."
Then I love fake bread.

The only real bread is made in Korea (ducks)

And ducks are gluten free.

Tamahome wrote: "And ducks are gluten free."

Unless you feed them bread

🦆🍞

Non gluten free ducks are illegal in British Colombia.

Real bread is illegal in looks up ah, fergit it.