Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for The Golem and the Jinni by Helene Wecker starting on January 20, 2024.


Happy Reading!

Yanique wrote: "This is a Buddy Read for The Golem and the Jinni by Helene Wecker starting on January 20, 2024.


Happy Reading!"

Thanks!

Looking forward to it! Been on my TBR for a while.

Oh gosh I've wanted to read this for a long time now!

I read this a long time ago... then the 5+ year wait for the sequel left me struggling with the idea of a re-read before reading the sequel... maybe it'll be easier on Audible...

Was a very unique book...

I really enjoyed this one. I’m not going to reread this time since I didn’t read it to long ago but I am going to catch the second one.

Was thinking of joining this BR, when I was adding everything possible to my schedule for the month... but it's the first on the chopping block, since I hurt myself over the weekend, and haven't been reading quite as much this week... on the mend... bruised big toe... might have fractured/broken... on the mend, slowly...

Timelord Iain wrote: "Was thinking of joining this BR, when I was adding everything possible to my schedule for the month... but it's the first on the chopping block, since I hurt myself over the weekend, and haven't be..."

I hope it's good, I didn't nominate it but I did vote for it when my nominee didn't get picked to go up for vote.

I've read a few pages awhile ago, so gonna try again.

Ann-Marie wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "Was thinking of joining this BR, when I was adding everything possible to my schedule for the month... but it's the first on the chopping block, since I hurt myself over the w..."

I rated it 5 stars, when I read it a long time ago... it's another "experience book"... it follows the Golem & Jinni, and half the people in the neighborhood in 1900s New York City... they all have their own stories/lives, and they all weave together to tell a really great story, but it can be slow at times, and it's a pretty long book (20hrs audio)...

Took author 5+ years to write the sequel...

Timelord Iain wrote: "Ann-Marie wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "Was thinking of joining this BR, when I was adding everything possible to my schedule for the month... but it's the first on the chopping block, since I hurt..."

I mean I have to read it and I hope I do not regret my choice (I may have nudged enough other people to get this one voted as the choice.....).

It's a very popular book club book... 122k ratings, 4.12 average... it was making the rounds, back around 2015 when I read it, in all sorts of circles...

I remember really loving this! Hopefully I'll like it on the reread just as much

Timelord Iain wrote: "Was thinking of joining this BR, when I was adding everything possible to my schedule for the month... but it's the first on the chopping block, since I hurt myself over the weekend, and haven't be..."
Ouch! Hope it heals quickly!

Tonari no Emily wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "Was thinking of joining this BR, when I was adding everything possible to my schedule for the month... but it's the first on the chopping block, since I hurt myself over the w..."

Sleeping is the hardest part... I think I jostle it in my sleep... after some experimentation, I think wearing my wool winter socks protect it the most... I'm wearing a wool sock on my bruised foot and my usual knee-length compression sock on my unbruised foot... stylin'...

Maybe you can also tape your bruised toe to it's neighbour for more stability?

I started this today, partway through chapter 4 (they are long chapters....) (view spoiler)[and it is just lovely so far, slow but not boring if that makes sense. I love how the golem can hear the needs of the people she sees regardless of language, the ultimate care creature. The rabbi that has adopted her said the man that created her was immoral and reckless which seems fitting. The jinni was released after 1000 years with no memory of what happened, very interested in seeing where his story goes. I like how the author had both characters reflect on the Statue of Liberty, I guess they are technically immigrants too <3 (hide spoiler)]

Through chapter 21 (view spoiler)[the golem and the jinni finally met but they are estranged now after she beat the piss out of the ass that got Anna pregnant. But OMG Josef is the shaman guy that trapped the jinni and also created the golem and he is in NYC and will most definitely cause more trouble! This has been a slow but beautiful read, very much enjoying it so far. 3 hours left for the audio, looking forward to finishing tomorrow! (hide spoiler)]

Just finished (view spoiler)[and I loved it so much, this was just a lovely story. I do think this may be more magical realism than fantasy, the way the author included folklore from 2 different groups of people was done in such a beautiful way, like a fairy tale come to life. It was a bit slow which normally would have bothered me but did not in this case, the writing and descriptions were just perfect and I was hooked from the start. (hide spoiler)]

Starting! Eye-reading, so going slow. Finished Chapter 1--(view spoiler)[Yeech. I'm glad the skeevy dude died. But I was also touched by the memory of his sister, and it was nice to see someone who sees people who are intelligent and curious as attractive. But seriously, he had no idea what he was requesting.

The Golem's response to the end-chapter question makes me wonder if she's going to be neurodivergent. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Starting! Eye-reading, so going slow. Finished Chapter 1--"

Very excited to hear your thoughts!

Book Club opinions (view spoiler)[Majority loved it and gave it 4+ stars, 2 people went 3 stars and 1 gave it 2 stars! I asked her how it felt to lack joy in her life lol (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 3--(view spoiler)[I'm really glad both the Golem and the Jinni encountered kind people who are willing to be their guides in this strange new world...

I'm also enjoying the setting--a time of immigrants and tenements, turn of a century and clash of new technologies and old ways...

The two characters make interesting contrasts too--a lot of opposites in them. Old world and newly born, fire and earth, used to formlessness and trapped in a body, strong in body and fearing returning to formlessness... (hide spoiler)]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "Starting! Eye-reading, so going slow. Finished Chapter 1--"

Very excited to hear your thoughts!

Book Club opinions [spoilers removed]"

Lmao what did she say to that??

Wow, this is just as fantastic as I remembered... the wriitng and the characters are top notch.. through chapter 11 now (view spoiler)[ I forgot it took about 1/3rd of the book for the two to actually meet... Im not mad about reading anyones perspective so far, invested in all the story lines here!
Im nervous about the creator coming to America and causing problems for Chava... i want to protect her at all costs! (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 5 and still really enjoying it--(view spoiler)[I found it interesting how the last chapter felt kind of like walking down a street, following the lives backwards of the random people our characters interacted with...

I really liked the description of the coffee lady as an example of the "beneficial application of gossip"--especially since I feel like I only ever see negative consequences to rumors and gossip, so it was fun to see this kind of knowledge applied positively. But man, as soon as we learned Ice Cream guy had a wife and daughter, I was like "oh shit, this will not end well..." So sad, how he never got to look at her again, and then she died!!

Hope the Jinni can help him with his ifrit problem...

I'm sure this will be answered in the next chapter or two, but I have been finding it kind of... jarring... how the Golem and Jinni are referred to without names so far in the book. It puts some space between them and the reader, emphasizing their inhumanity by only labeling them as a species category. So I'm curious, from here on, first to see if the Golem gets a name, and next to see if the narrator starts calling them by their new names, or continues to refer to them as "the ~" and reserves the names for dialogue only. (hide spoiler)]

Tonari no Emily wrote: "Ann-Marie wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "Starting! Eye-reading, so going slow. Finished Chapter 1--"

Very excited to hear your thoughts!

Book Club opinions [spoilers removed]"

Lmao what did she say t..."

She just looked at me but she also thought The House in the Cerulean Sea was boring so I really think she does lack joy in her life lol

Sounds like one of those people who feel pride at having a differing negative opinion.

"Books aren't for enjoyment, they're for enriching society" -- said with pinky raised ;)

Enrichment you say. *ponders the sex scenes in Gunnie Rose* O_o

There are certain books or authors I will look at on people's shelves to gauge if their book taste aligns with mine and TJ Klune is definitely one of my bars. You gave Cerulean 1 stars and 5 stars to Fourth Wing? Immediately suspect! lol

Same--though even more suspect is the person who has almost no books in their house.... except for a strategically placed copy of some piece of "literature."

I think that’s weird. I don’t even read paper books anymore and we have hundreds of books. I want my son to always be surrounded by books. My favorite quote says that any room with books in it is never small.

Felina wrote: "I think that’s weird. I don’t even read paper books anymore and we have hundreds of books. I want my son to always be surrounded by books. My favorite quote says that any room with books in it is n..."

One of my neighbors owns a local used bookstore--she's also the one who started my neighborhood book club--and her house is AWESOME. She uses books like art--everywhere there are stacked books, placed as much for topic, with tchotchkes on topic, as for color, to go with the scheme... everywhere you look, there's something interesting to look at, begging to be explored...

Back to the book, through Chapter 8. (view spoiler)[The jinni deciding to seduce Sophia made me very uncomfortable. I can see the logic behind writing the characters that way, and for Sophia to latch on to the encounter as a way to defy the cage she's trapped in (ironic that the jinni gave her a caged bird as a gift, that) but I still really don't like it. I have a hard time liking or sympathizing with any character that sets out to seduce someone because they are bored. Kinda souring me on the character rather a lot here. (hide spoiler)]

That’s the beginning of a character arch and a growth pattern for him.

Felina wrote: "That’s the beginning of a character arch and a growth pattern for him."

Oh dear! I'm hoping you mean (view spoiler)[the going out at night, and not that he's going to be seducing strings of random women... (hide spoiler)]

I'm up through Chapter 13 now. I'm really enjoying the way the Golem & Jinni's stories parallel or contrast with each other in a lot of ways--(view spoiler)[The Golem so cautious and staying in, the Jinni so impulsive and wandering, both feeling a need to keep busy with their hands, but the Jinni creating from his mind, while the Golem is so careful to follow recipes or patterns, and doesn't really create.

The looming dangers to both--the Kabalist coming over to America, the ice-cream seller who can see the Jinni's face, and Michael with his satchel of research...

I'm glad the two of them finally met--and again, so much in common, and such different people. (hide spoiler)]

Just the jinni grows a lot having to be surrounded by humans. It’s not a situation he’s ever been in before and usually humans are play things for him.

Through Chapter 19 now, and seeing some of what you're talking about... (view spoiler)[Seeing the ceiling, and how the Jinni realizes that it doesn't just belong to him, it belongs to the community now... so even if he is fed up with it, he couldn't stop.

Add to that the conversation with the Golem, about actions having consequences for other people...

Especially contrasted with the scenes with Fatwa in the desert, where he played without any thought to what it would do to her...

Took me a while to see the connection there, but by now it's pretty clear that the Fatwa stories are going to lead to how he got trapped in the first place... yet another contrast with the Golem--we've known her story from conception, but his has been shrouded in mystery...

I really am enjoying feeling out those parallels and contrasts. They're well thought out, and executed well too. Even to their character beats, like having a suicidal moment, but deciding against it in different ways. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 20--(view spoiler)[I'm glad that the Golem meeting her maker is over. I was worried he would attempt something right away... but he is still in plotting mode. It's interesting--his lack of conscience puts the hairs on the back of my neck on edge, but he also lacks directional malice, which gives me hope that instead of him being a danger for the Golem, perhaps she will end up being able to help him... as I am hoping the Jinni might be able to help the ice cream man.

Also wondering if the Bedouin girl who passed the ifrit on to the ice cream man might not somehow have been connected back to the Jinni's Fatwa...

I have conflicting feelings toward the story of Sophia's miscarriage. First--I hate random pregnancy storylines. Hate. Anna's makes more sense, she was spending a lot of time with her boyfriend. But Sophia--it was twice. Yes, it happens, but I hate when that becomes a plot. Adding on to that a miscarriage feels like fridging. Which essentially it is. That said, there were a few aspects that were well delivered to make it that much more tragic and interesting--Sophia feeling the spirit of the nascent jinni... and that it could not survive in her body full of water. And the French doctor, covering for her and advising her to be more careful. I wonder if her malingering illness has any connection to what ailed Fatwa? (hide spoiler)]

Regarding Chapter 19 (view spoiler)[the way the characters evolved was just done so well, I loved it. I never thought the Jinni was acting maliciously I just think it is his nature. And then to add on how the author was telling the story in different timelines but they are told seamlessly, loved how the strands of the story started coming together. What struck me is the Jinni is thousands of years old and often acts like a child with no patience and acting immaturely meanwhile Chava is a few months old and is much more mature and carefully. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 20 (view spoiler)[the shaman is the absolute worst! About Sophia I kind of thought it was because he was a jinni because Fatwa was only a few times as well, right? Perhaps he is extra virile? lol (hide spoiler)]

re: Chapter 19 & 20--(view spoiler)[The contrast between the old yet childish jinni & the young yet mature golem also says a lot on how we measure childishness and maturity, doesn't it? That actually reminds me of a psych class I took in college, that looked at that--babies/children have no sense of peoplehood outside of themselves, no sense of consequences or anything beyond their own desires. Basically, no empathy. The whole "I want so I take" mindset. (Hm. Does that mean that all people are born sociopaths?) Empathy and responsibility develops as we grow...

The more I see of Chava, I feel like her social aspects are inspired by women with autism... she's constantly masking, constantly trying to please the people around her, restless, prefers to be alone, very rule conscious, likely to not have facial expressions unless practicing them, has difficulty parsing her own emotions, or separating them from the people around her. Only thing missing is the sensory sensitivity, though I think that could also be argued.

I didn't get the impression he was ever with Fadwa in the flesh, just in her dreams, and just the once... I wonder if Sophia was his first time with a human, in the flesh? Shouldn't make a difference though--doubt Jinni shenanigans ripen eggs. Just bugs me, using this as a plot device. I want it solved though. I want him to find Sophia again, see what he wrought, and apologize. And try to help! Yeah, grow up! (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 25--(view spoiler)[Was not expecting the plot twist of the shaman being the wizard who trapped the jinni!! Nice going! It makes me sad though--all these lives and reincarnations, and he's learned nothing? Gained no empathy and is still as selfish and disregarding of others' lives and importance? Which then makes me wonder--is his link to the jinni affecting that? Since the jinni's natural state is the same? Though the jinni is slowly coming to care for others, and see consequences... Would the link being severed allow his soul to evolve, or is he just always going to be that kind of horrible person?

I also find it ironic that the shaman is the one who helps the ice-cream maker in the end.

Chava's marriage to Michael--in it, I see the marriages of so many women... marrying because they think they have to, not because they want to, and never feeling comfortable with it... If only Michael hadn't knee-jerk rejected her... though little Matthew's "acceptance" of the jinni, getting close only with hopes of what he could do for him, isn't any better. (Though to be fair, that is the jinni's interpretation of Matthew's actions, and we don't actually know if that is all there is to it.) I keep thinking, between reading, how nice it would be for them to be part of a community that knows and accepts them... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 27-28 (view spoiler)[OMG, the irony of Schaalman telling ibn Malik "You ruined my life!" No dude, you ruined your own life, and you keep making choices to ruin it further...

Damn, at the end of 27 I was hoping that the whole flask idea was to put Schaalman in the flask--a proper Jafar solution. Still could happen. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 29 (view spoiler)[yay! (hide spoiler)]

Finished! Really loved it, and glad there is a sequel. (view spoiler)[There is still much to solve--with both the Jinni and Golem bound. And there is hope too--they both now have a wider circle of people who know their nature and are willing to be friends. 1 for Golem and 2 for Jinni... I would hope for more for each, especially with Sophia and Matthew gone away, and Michael and Saleh dead. What of the baker couple? I can hope that they will be let in on the secret someday, and still accept their Chavaleh. I'm still holding on to hope of a whole community that accepts and cares for our couple, and helps them find a new and fulfilling life...

I was sad to learn Saleh had died... but I think he would see it as a worthy sacrifice... he was so ready to die for nothing earlier, and being able to give the two a chance at freedom and life is a form of healing he could approve of as a doctor, I think... he also died free... and perhaps he will see his family again now.

I still wish that the Jinni had more of a conversation with Sophia--I want to explore what happened to her more--I want an answer to her affliction. Also sad that Matthew moved away.. though perhaps, with the next book named "The Hidden Palace" they will end up on that side of the world again... (hide spoiler)]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Tonari no Emily wrote: "Ann-Marie wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "Starting! Eye-reading, so going slow. Finished Chapter 1--"

Very excited to hear your thoughts!

Book Club opinions [spoilers removed]"
..."

Oh wow... That baffles me lol

I'm glad my reread of this was as good as I remembered the first time around... And I dunno why, but bittersweet endings are sometimes better than mostly happy endings... And certainly so for sequels!

It's interesting... the Golem & Jinni's circumstances in the book made me think of how much toil was involved in most folks daily lives back then... and yet, they found happiness in it somewhere...

That reminds me of a Ted talk I watched on depression and that its not just a "first world problem"... Wonder if I can find it...

Nirkatze wrote: "Finished! Really loved it, and glad there is a sequel. "

Glad you loved it! I went to sci-fi trivia tonight with some book club friends and we started debating this again and I was like 6 stars! (view spoiler)[I was not surprised about Saleh dying but Michael's death was unexpected although I am not certain how he would have reacted long term (I do not think it would have went well). (hide spoiler)] I am very much looking forward to the sequel <3

Tonari no Emily wrote: "Ann-Marie wrote: "Tonari no Emily wrote: "Ann-Marie wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "Starting! Eye-reading, so going slow. Finished Chapter 1--"

Very excited to hear your thoughts!

Book Club opinions [s..."

Right? And it is looking like March's pick will be [book:Foundryside|37173847] and while I enjoyed book 1 a lot I thought book 2 was meh and book 3 was terribly awful and I hate read it so my struggle will be to focus on the merits of the first if possible. I am not too sure this will be the case lol