Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for Children of Dune by Frank Herbert starting on March 10, 2024.


Happy Reading!

Thank you!

1. Dune (Jan 10) [link]
2. Dune Messiah (Feb 10) [link]
3. Children of Dune (Mar 10)
4. God Emperor of Dune (Apr 10) [link]
5. Heretics of Dune (May 10) [link]
6. Chapterhouse: Dune (Jun 10) [link]

If we feel like trying something different, then there's the Brian Herbert books too--though they're more like... an adventure D&D game in the Dune universe, with all the deeper stuff excised, or so I've heard. Could be popcorn fun though.

Started this morning... few hours in... through chapter 14 I think, and the Dream Interpreter...

(view spoiler)[this feels like more of the same from Dune Messiah... competing trajectories for the future, factions trying to regain power... Bene Gesserit manipulation maybe...

Just with a new generation of Atreides... ones more willing to follow the Path than Paul was...

I wasn't expecting the return of Baron Harkonnen, through Alia... or talk of Leto II & Ghanima marrying... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 23: You know... (view spoiler)[the plot here, with Harkonnen controlling/manipulating Alia, and destabilizing the world around her, is a good example of what I was trying to say in the Sourcery thread about the different the tone of the book makes to a plaot...

In Sourcery, alot of Coin's actions were manipulated by (view spoiler)[his dad in the staff (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Finished... definitely felt a bit like Dune Messiah in structure, to me... not really complaining... I find these surprisingly easy reads...

Just started--8% in 1:30/17 hours or so (view spoiler)[So much I'd forgotten here... not exactly sure why Leto & Ghanima were born like Alia but not every other child of Fremen are, unless it's specifically Atreides/Harkonnen/Bene Gesserit cultured genes--seems like retconning, honestly, as I thought it was Jessica drinking the Water of Life while pregnant that woke Alia--they became Revered Mothers at the same time...

And Jessica returning to Arrakis, with Gurney as lover, and Stilgar still being a big part...

Also funny listening to Leto & Ghanima using "ancient languages" to talk to each other. French, is it? (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze wrote: "Just started--8% in 1:30/17 hours or so..."

(view spoiler)[I think Chani drank the Water of Life to survive the poisoning from Paul's wife, and speed up the pregnancy, so the kids could be born before she died...

EDIT: checking the wiki, I think it was a mix of the drugs from Irulan & a high quantity of spice?... Leto II & Ghanima were born in 5 months instead of 9, regardless... (hide spoiler)]

That's what this book was saying... but that makes me wonder--don't (view spoiler)[all Fremen have the same level of Spice? It's just never addressed... Drugs from Irulan being a factor would make it a separate thing though... (hide spoiler)]

I'm 33% in now, 5:30/17 hours--(view spoiler)[I was actually surprised earlier in the book, the revelation that Irulan actually loved Paul, and was dedicated to his children because of it.

The incest plans of the Bene Gesserit is super disturbing... and also annoying my scientific sense... why not just clone them? Breeding them has risks, genetically.

Harkonnen encroaching on Alia is also disturbing... really feel for that poor kid, never having a chance to really be just herself... (hide spoiler)]

55% in, 9:30/17 hours or so--(view spoiler)[Seeing the fanaticism of the people post-Paul's disappearance, all the contemplation of what Muad'dib truly meant or truly wanted, the creation of dogma in front of the people who lived it and knew the man, and the mysterious Prophet figure..

I feel like this book does a better job than Dune to show the dangers of a prophet and fanaticism... (hide spoiler)]

Interesting that your copy has chapters, @Iain--mine doesn't, and neither does my physical copy... It has quotes that break up sections, but no numbers...

68% in 13:45/17 hours--(view spoiler)[This is the scene I remember the most--practically the only scene I remember in this whole book... stuck with me for decades. I didn't remember the forced training and extended prisonerhood, or even Alia & Harkonnen, Duncan Idaho or Jessica and Gurney--not until watching the movies and being reintroduced to the world, rereading the first two books.

But this--the sandworms, placing the little sandtrout on his body one by one, gaining physical superpowers to go with his mental, the step leading to the God Emperor... (hide spoiler)]

Finished! I see how @Iain compares this to Dune Messiah, but I was feeling as much vanilla Dune too--in the middle, feel-wise... (view spoiler)[Duncan #2 sacrificing himself to ensure Stilgar's participation in the conflict against Alia... starting a trend here, of Duncan sacrificing himself for Atreides children...

Leto confronting the Preacher in the Desert... and then Paul dying (finally) at the hands of Alia's armsmen... basically undermines everything from the first book, showing that Paul never had the strength to do what needed doing to save humanity... but does Leto? And at what cost?

I feel so bad for Alia still... her family tried to save her, but she was too far gone... at least she managed to end things on her own terms... I'd say she's with Duncan now, but for all the talk of religion, there has been ZERO talk of afterlife in these books... very interesting. Only of prophecy, and controlling the future...

Finally, Leto becoming emperor, to rule for hundreds of years, and marrying his sister, but in a twist, letting Farad'n become a consort, much like Chani to his father, and Jessica to his father... way to swap the genders there. (hide spoiler)]

I think the main difference between this and Dune (to me), is I went in knowing what to expect in Dune, so it felt different... I'd seen the movie from the 70s/80s, and had heard so much over the years...

I can see that. I feel like... Messiah was super focused, and Dune more epic and also a grow-up story... this kinda combined the two...

Yea... it was trying to do double duty, with the Prophet plotline and the Leto plotline...

Makes me wonder how much of this was planned (view spoiler)[considering how much of books 2-3 were about changing the ending of book 1... (hide spoiler)]

I found an interesting article where Herbert talks about his thought process:
https://web.archive.org/web/201201072...

35% in... (view spoiler)[ The political wars are real! The battles for ideological dominance are thriving too... I am so upset that Alia allowed herself to be taken over and possessed by Baron Harkonnen!!! It's that arrogance again - I am so strong psychically, that I can let this evil dead grandpa live in a small corner of my consciousness, and I can use and control him. Of course he is going to take over!!!!!!!

The idea of making the twins wed and have children for the purity of the genetic line, is horrible! I guess it's just a smidge better than killing them outright.

It is a bit confusing why Leto and Ghanima turned out the way they did, because it can't be just the spice addiction of their mother, otherwise all children on Dune would be like them. Iain's explanation sounds more plausible... I am glad that Irulan has been a good stepmother for them though. I am sure they will figure out a way to stop their cousin's mother plotting...

I don't believe the Preacher is Paul, but he is preaching things Paul was thinking... I am interested to see where this storyline is going.

I feel bad for Duncan Idaho - his wife isn't his real wife anymore, and he is trying to figure out what are the right things to do....

Jessica, I don't even know what to think about her... She is trying to be a Bene Gesserit, but I don't know if all of her experiences are not going to eventually bring her down... I do wish she had stayed and helped with the raising of the children though. That might have helped all of them to stay stronger emotionally... (hide spoiler)]£

I finished... I absolutely loved it! In my humble opinion, this was the best book of the lot. ... (view spoiler)[ Alia was such a tragic figure! She never had a childhood, her mother was too busy not being her mother, her brother was super involved in his own godhood, everyone around her, even if they loved her, though her weird, and were not equipped to notice when all those possessions started. This is why I think Jessica should have stayed and been around. Nobody should be blaming Alia, when the only person who could have noticed the dangerous signs and done something about it was never there! Any human could be overwhelmed from within, if constantly besieged! And the Baron was a crafty evil dude, she didn't stand a chance... I hated that she had to die in the end:(((

Duncan's sacrifice was noted, but I can't think there could've been another way. It felt really wasteful of a good character... I wonder if at the time he was writing this book he planned on having more to follow. I doubt they can bring Duncan back in the future, could they?

I was not expecting that the Preacher was really Paul! Wow! I loved the idea of him going around preaching against his own religion... I felt like he also sacrificed himself in order to let Leto do what he had to do. I somehow expected more emotion from Jessica and maybe for her to go and at least touch or hug his body... She let me down here... But yeah, Paul's weakness was also kind of disappointing...

Her setting up the testing of Leto was pretty devious, but great plotting. And Leto using the sandtrout to recreate himself into this whole new creature, that was very radical! I can see why Nirkatze remembered that scene! Now he is a whole new species and can't reproduce, and will use his cousin's and sister's progeny as his own, will possibly rule for thousands of years and might make some of those hypothetical children into creatures like himself, all that sounds like some messed up plans! I just can't foresee anything good coming from them... I say, some dark times are coming. A long-lived tyrant of the universe is going to set up some constant rebellions, conspiracies, and stagnation... I am very curious to see where the author will take us...


They mentioned that there is light on the other side, but no other mention of the afterlife... (hide spoiler)]

The political philosophy was best in book #2, but the rest of it was awesome throughout the series!

I see you hit all the same points I did, Choko! Grats on your finish. (view spoiler)[So agree on your analysis regarding Jessica & Alia! If she'd just stuck around, and tried to be a family over a Bene Gesserit... she'd already made that decision once.... but who knows where Leto's "Golden Path" would have been then? Thinking down all of those "would have beens" is like tracing the different paths to the future... (hide spoiler)]

As for Duncan--if you want to know--(view spoiler)[He is the only character who appears in every. Single. Book. So his death here might have seemed like a waste, but we're not done with him yet. (hide spoiler)]

Great!!! I am so glad, because that did seem pointless... I am sticking with the series. I had only read the first book when I was a kid and I haven't watched any movies, so this is very new to me and I am really enjoying it!

Okay--the last three books haven't been scheduled yet. Do we want to keep the 10th and go onwards with April, or do we need some adjusting?

Warning though--the last three books get into some seriously crazy stuff! I don't remember much about them, but whooo spicy.

I am good with the monthly dates. And now I really want to know what happens!

Choko wrote: "I am good with the monthly dates. And now I really want to know what happens!"

I basically remember... like, imagine (view spoiler)[Bene Gesserit spinoffs who control people through sex. And male versions too. So like, all the political manipulations going on? Or visions of the future? Conversations with past lives? Happening during sex. Lots of sex. All over the place. (hide spoiler)]

That's just the vague impression I have, especially of the 6th book. Maybe not as much the 4th and 5th. I'm curious to see if it's really as bad as I remember though. I was also like, 12 when I read these books last, and these were the first explicit books I ever read, so yeah, my impressions could be a bit overblown and out of date.

Hahaha! I can imagine that was traumatizing for you!!! Poor 12 year old Nirkatze!

I picked up Outlander in high school for the time travel... ended up basically reading a Historical Romance...

Sometime later, I tried one of my mom's Harlequin Romances that were always laying around the house, out of curiosity...

Didn't truly get into Romance/Smut/etc until a decade later, post-college, in 2014-2015, after a year or 2 of Urban Fantasy slowly devolved into Paranormal Romance... real year of easy reading... now I dip my toe in, but mostly stick to other stuff...

Same here. I started with Science Fiction and Fantasy, then when I came to the US, I started with historical romances because the language was most accessible to me. Then PNR, UF and back to my mother's milk - Sci-fi/Fantasy:)))

I started with the SF classics in 4th and 5th grade--Asimov and Herbert especially, then found other SFF aimed at younger audience, like Patricia C. Wrede and Diana Wynne Jones, Tamora Pierce, Anne McCaffrey etc...

I've read some Asimov... repeatedly failed to go back and read them all... tried to make time in recent years to try Heinlein and failed...

Not sure what else I've read... from a young age, going to the library, I was easily swayed by a pretty book cover, which led to reading newer books...

Yeah, the writing is very different from what we have today... I have to be in a mood to read them, but I usually find them worth it...

Oh yeah, Heinlein! I did all my Heinlein at that time too... I was trying to think of what other classics I read and was having a hard time recalling... I hear you both about being in the right mood, and not always getting through things...

Finally put in the requests for #4-6, still on the 10th. Will update when links are live.