Jewish Historical Fiction discussion

The Wall at the Sugar Factory: A Novel
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The Holocaust began when?

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message 1: by Sherry (new)

Sherry (goodreadscomuser_sherryostroff) | 10 comments My new historical novel is based on my grandmother's escape from the pogroms in Ukraine (1918-1921). The topic of these anti-Jewish riots is significant because with the advent of WWII and the enormity of the Holocaust, focus on the pogroms has taken a backseat. Today, however, many historians believe that the Holocaust didn't begin with the Nuremburg Laws or Kristallnacht, but in the shtetls of the former Pale of Settlement 20 years earlier. The butchery that occurred there created a citizenry, ready and willing to rob, rape, and murder their Jewish neighbors. At times, with even more fervor than the Nazis themselves. I hope you will consider my work.


message 2: by Lewis (new)

Lewis Weinstein (lewweinstein) | 45 comments Sherry wrote: "My new historical novel is based on my grandmother's escape from the pogroms in Ukraine (1918-1921). The topic of these anti-Jewish riots is significant because with the advent of WWII and the enor..."

sounds interesting ... what is the title?


message 3: by Miriam (new)

Miriam Miller | 8 comments Some of my family lived in that area at that time, moving to America about 1903-4. What's the title?


message 4: by Sherry (last edited Jan 24, 2024 01:19PM) (new)

Sherry (goodreadscomuser_sherryostroff) | 10 comments The Wall at the Sugar Factory, There should be an image of the book at the top of this discussion. My pen name is Sherry V. Ostroff.


message 5: by Lewis (new)

Lewis Weinstein (lewweinstein) | 45 comments Sherry wrote: "The Wall at the Sugar Factory, There should be an image of the book at the top of this discussion. My pen name is Sherry V. Ostroff."

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message 6: by Sherry (new)

Sherry (goodreadscomuser_sherryostroff) | 10 comments Miriam wrote: "Some of my family lived in that area at that time, moving to America about 1903-4. What's the title?"

1903-1905 was right after the Kishniev Pogrom and Bloody Sunday. Both incidents resulted in many Jews fleeing Russia. The other two were in 1881 and then from 1918-1921. The Wall at the Sugar Factory.


message 7: by Sherry (new)

Sherry (goodreadscomuser_sherryostroff) | 10 comments Miriam wrote: "Some of my family lived in that area at that time, moving to America about 1903-4. What's the title?" The Wall at the Sugar Factory. My pen name is Sherry V. Ostroff.


message 8: by Lenny (last edited Jan 25, 2024 07:29AM) (new)

Lenny Cavallaro (lennyc) | 5 comments << The butchery that occurred there created a citizenry, ready and willing to rob, rape, and murder their Jewish neighbors. At times, with even more fervor than the Nazis themselves. >>

We should also remember that pogroms continued even AFTER World War II. The one in Kielce (Poland), 4 July 1946, is among the most notorious, but it was by no means the only one. Others occurred in Ukraine, including one right in Kyiv (Kiev), 4-7 September 1945.


message 9: by Sherry (new)

Sherry (goodreadscomuser_sherryostroff) | 10 comments October 7 is another example of a pogrom.


message 10: by Marilyn (new)

Marilyn Oser | 49 comments My grandparents and four children, too, escaped from Russian Ukraine in 1918-22. I’ve written three novels about the period 1914-1948. The first, Rivka’s War, takes place in Russia, ending with an escape to Palestine. The second, November to July, takes place during the Paris Peace Conference after WWI. The third, with characters from both books, is called This Storied Land and takes place in Palestine 1920-48. You can visit my website marilynoser.com for more information.


message 11: by Sherry (new)

Sherry (goodreadscomuser_sherryostroff) | 10 comments Marilyn wrote: "My grandparents and four children, too, escaped from Russian Ukraine in 1918-22. I’ve written three novels about the period 1914-1948. The first, Rivka’s War, takes place in Russia, ending with an ..."

That's wonderful Marilyn. Best of luck with your books. However, you might want to consider starting a new thread so you can advertise your work. The point I am making with my post is a new-look into the historical period of the Holocaust. If you'd like to discuss the topic, I'm all ears.


message 12: by Marilyn (new)

Marilyn Oser | 49 comments Rivka’s War contains depictions of horrific, endemic antisemitic acts prior to what we call the Holocaust. I agree with you that there was nothing new in the sentiments or many of the activities that went on after 1933, as opposed to before that date. Indeed, when, as a sassy teenager, I asked my mother why she hadn’t done more in the run-up to WWII to adopt a child from Europe, she stared at me, entirely confused. “But there were always pogroms,” she said. (She was 4 years old when they left Ukraine.) Still, in the industrial scale of the Holocaust, and its aim to annihilate the Jewish People, I think you can say that it’s new. I’d argue that the earlier pogroms were intended to keep the whole population in check (with regard to Stalin’s government) \and the Jews under permanent duress, but not extinction. I’d love to know more about new historical research that says otherwise.


message 13: by Sherry (last edited Jan 28, 2024 09:03AM) (new)

Sherry (goodreadscomuser_sherryostroff) | 10 comments I've read a lot of the research on the Russian pogroms, and while they never matched the mechanics or the efficiency of slaughter pursued by the Nazis, for the time, 1918-21, the number of Jewish deaths was unheard of. (100,000+). Accounts of the atrocities are as gruesome as what happened during the Nazi regime. Probably more Russian Jews would have been killed, if the pogromists had the know-how. It's like before 9/11, we couldn't imagine planes being used as missiles. Now we can't imagine anything less.
One example I found, and forgive me, I cannot remember the name of shtetl, was when the Nazis arrived in Ukraine and wanted to murder all of the Jewish children in the town. But the German soldiers were hesitant to do so. The Ukrainians stepped forward and offered to do the job. That's what is meant by the Holocaust really starting 20 years early. The pogroms from 1918-1921 created ready and willing executioners for their future Nazi hosts.


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