Reading the 20th Century discussion

This is for the Buddy Read of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S Thompson.

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is the best chronicle of drug-soaked, addle-brained, rollicking good times ever committed to the printed page. It is also the tale of a long weekend road trip that has gone down in the annals of American pop culture as one of the strangest journeys ever undertaken.

I have really no idea what to expect from this book ... and I like it that way. Will it be like The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test? On the Road? Is it journalism? Memoir? A tall tale?

We'll find out soon.

Just to say I expect to read this early next week. I'm just finishing a borrowed book first.

Who else will join?

I'll join in with the discussion but not reread the book


It was fairly recently that I last read it and it's still clear in my mind

Another off the wall adventure for me. I’ve not ready any of his books. I lived in San Francisco, where he was well known, for 25 years but never read his books.

His book about the Hells Angels was my favourite but they’re all great snapshots of their eras

Truly a different time

I think I’ve read them all

He seemed like an essential writer when I was a kid. Not so sure about how his legacy stacks up now

Pretty sure he was one of the first writers to make the journalist or writer a central figure in the narrative. Gonzo journalism as he dubbed it. Plenty followed in his footsteps

Ben wrote: "Just to say I expect to read this early next week. I'm just finishing a borrowed book first.

Who else will join?"

I just started with this. Hoping to make some progress over the weekend.

All right. I've just begun and I can see this is coming at a perfect time in my reading life, providing much needed contrast to the scholarly book on the various meanings of rules, algorithms, laws and paradigms throughout the history of Western Thought that I've nearly finished, while I'm knee-deep in the introspective, classically enriched scepticism of Montaigne, and having my mind blasted by a collection of Joyce Carol Oates short stories and their searing, x-ray vision of 20th century America.

And now I'm cruising at 100 miles per hour through the California desert in a red convertible with the trunk [boot] that resembles a

mobile police narcotics lab [... with] two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers … and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.

with one-hit wonder Brewer & Shipley's "One Toke Over the Line" blaring on the AM car radio.

Yes, I'm sure this will all make sense and fill in some important gaps in my education. Already I now understand the character "Duke" in the classic comic Doonesbury far better than I ever have before.

And this is only chapter 1.

Drugs will be taken

Yes, drugs for old age ha!

Ben, I certainly agree with your succinct description of JCO’s “XRay vision.”
I’m not sure how I’ll feel about this Hunter S Thompson book. I have friends who barely survived those years.

Same here, Susan_MG

I also just finished a good New Yorker article about the history of LSD in scientific studies conducted by doctors and experimentation by the CIA, Margaret Mead and of course Timothy Leary and its recent revival as a treatment for depression and other mental ills. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...

Coming at it from all sides.

My whole youth coming back to remind me how fortunate I was to have avoided the drugs. I have mentioned before that I lived in SF in those years. Let me say no more…

Susan mg, you lived in the City in those years and avoided drugs? Amazing! or maybe you just "didn't inhale" as a certain President claimed. Just kidding. I too had friends who didn't make it through or who barely survived.

Haha Barbara 🥹 (about not inhaling).

Not sure if I'm reading this or not. Unless I find it cheap somewhere.

I was in SoCal in the late '60s. Luckily, I had a friend or so who strongly advised me not to take some of those drugs in the trunk.

I did see Brewer & Shipley when I was going to school in Idaho. It wasn't until then that I realized they were a "freezus jeek" (Christian) group. And, years later, my brother gave me a t-shirt of theirs - "new tokes for old folks".

The description in the first chapter reminded me of Eagles' Hotel California. Although, maybe the book is not in the same mellow vein. :D

On a dark desert highway
Cool wind in my hair
Warm smell of colitas
Rising up through the air
Up ahead in the distance
I saw a shimmering light
My head grew heavy and my sight grew dim
I had to stop for the night

P.S. I had to Google a lot. There are a lot of references in the first chapter that I didn't understand.

The Eagles is an interesting reference point Anubha.


Reading this book as an adult it is now clear that far from being a manifesto for hedonism it's a lament for the promise of the 1960s counterculture which is all but dead in 1971

Unlike Timothy Leary’s enlightenment agenda, the cocktail of drugs consumed throughout Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is to blot out reality and is, probably, a howl of rage

The Eagles were a manifestation of this change. From 60s idealism to 70s commercial imperative. From political and societal change to shifting units. From benefit concerts to jetting around in private planes high on cocaine.

No wonder Hunter S Thompson was so full of disgust and self loathing and took it all out on himself

Exactly, Nigeyb!

Nearly finished. It confirms my impression that reading about this era and enjoying the music suits me more than living through it as a mature, responsible adult would have.

How long would it have taken for Hunter Thompson to be cancelled in this far more self-conscious time? But isn't his whole point here to shock and offend?

I do like this line, near the end: "'Consciousness Expansion' went out with LBJ … and it is worth noting, historically, that downers came in with Nixon."

That is a great line

The scenes with the District Attorneys mis-explaining the drug scene and the passage where Thompson and his "attorney" frighten a DA from Georgia with tall tales about the practice of witchcraft and human sacrifice can be repeated today with the division between red and blue state America.

Nothing in that sense has changed since Thompson wrote this -- two sides of America scaring themselves and each other to death.

One side has the better writers and the other has the guns.

Nothing new under the sun Ben

On red and blue states, why do Republicans use red and Democrats blue, the opposite of the usual right- and left wing colours?

I've always wondered that too! Time for some research.

It looks like the colours switched back and forth in the US for years, and in some cases blue simply was used to represent the incumbent party and red the opposition. The colours have become more consistent since 2000, with the Republicans stuck on red and the Democrats on blue, although some in each party are uncomfortable with their assigned colours and prefer the international norms for the colours associated with right and left.

Ben wrote: "It looks like the colours switched back and forth in the US for years, and in some cases blue simply was used to represent the incumbent party and red the opposition."

Wow, so weird! Especially given the international associations with red since the French Revolution. Hope I'm not going to spend all weekend humming The Red Flag beneath my breath 😉

Yes, you might think the US is on a different planet.

There is actually quite a lot of good thinking and writing in this book if you set aside the passages about drugs, vomiting and maniacal driving. Is there more to those passages than HST establishing his street cred?

Ben wrote: "Yes, you might think the US is on a different planet."

Or, at least, through the mirror... where Tory Britain is joining them. So, now to be anti-fascist is to be an 'extremist'? #Losttheplot

Nigeyb wrote: "The Eagles is an interesting reference point Anubha.


Reading this book as an adult it is now clear that far from being a manifesto for hedonism it's a lament for the promise of the 1960s counter..."

Great points Nigey, planning to start this soon but I see it was partly inspired by The Great Gatsby which fits with your impressions. I've always imagined it as a spontaneous outpouring but sounds far more deliberate than that. Also fascinated to read about his actual experiences, I've only had LSD once could barely make it down the road - the paving stones were misbehaving - can't imagine driving across country!

I was always amazed by the term used in by the rabid, Anti-Communist McCarthyites during the early fifties to criticise those in the 1930's calling for a popular front unity among moderates and leftists against the Nazis: "Premature-anti-fasicists". As if one could have ever been too early to oppose Hitler!

My British political history knowledge isn't strong enough to know whether the purge of the moderate Tories by Johnson and others has historical precedent, but the Tory party and the Republican Party today under Trump have certainly moved along the same lines of empowering their most extreme elements.

But it is very dangerous politically in the US for both the left and the right to ally themselves with international movements. It is an article of faith in America that our system is unique -- uniquely good, whether in its democratic ideals, its protection of human rights, or its protection of religious practice and freedom as God intended.

A funny place.

Ben wrote: "Same here, Susan_MG

I also just finished a good New Yorker article about the history of LSD in scientific studies conducted by doctors and experimentation by the CIA, Margaret Mead and of course T..."

Thanks for the link Ben will check it out. I've read a little about it, although mostly remember the connection to people like Aldous Huxley and then through reading Tom Wolfe. I'd be interested to compare the claims to ones made for MDMA which were quite hyperbolic at one point. Also I think used for therapeutic purposes in recent years via microdosing as per LSD and "magic mushrooms."

Roman Clodia wrote: "Ben wrote: "Yes, you might think the US is on a different planet."

Or, at least, through the mirror... where Tory Britain is joining them. So, now to be anti-fascist is to be an 'extremist'? #Lost..."

Maybe they think that's the way to defeat Labour, a number of Labour MPs are involved/have been involved in organisations like Hope Not Hate, and there is an official Labour antifascist group! Although more seriously I read the article in The Guardian about the Tory plans and I was completely gobsmacked.

Ben wrote: "My British political history knowledge isn't strong enough to know whether the purge of the moderate Tories by Johnson and others has historical precedent"

Nearly 100 years ago the Daily Mail was (already) openly supporting fascism and urging the Tory party in that direction, including their notorious 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts!' headline - this is from Gale introducing pieces from the Mail's archives:

"SUPPORTING FASCISM
During the 1930s, the Daily Mail supported the rise of fascism, running many headlines and editorials in support of fascist regimes, especially those in Germany and Italy. Lord Rothermere, the owner of the Daily Mail at the time, was friends with Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) and Benito Mussolini (1883-1945), and deliberately guided the newspaper to support them. The support extended to fascism in the UK, with advocacy of British fascism declared in one of the newspaper’s most famous articles, ‘Hurrah for the Blackshirts!’. The advocacy of fascism did stop, but there are conflicting theories as to why: on the surface, it stopped as a reaction to violence committed by the British Union of Fascists (BUF) rally in 1934; but Oswald Mosley (1896-1980, leader of the BUF) suggested it was threats of reduced advertising from the Jewish business community—a significant threat to the newspaper’s profits—that was the real reason for the change in stance."

Price, G. Ward. “The Fruits of Fascism.” Daily Mail, 16 July 1926

R. Moore, T. C., C. B. E., M. P. “The Blackshirts Have What The Conservatives Need.” Daily Mail, 25 Apr. 1934

Viscount Rothermere. “Hurrah for the Blackshirts!” Daily Mail, 15 Jan. 1934

Viscount Rothermere. “Give the Blackshirts a Helping Hand.” Daily Mail, 22 Jan. 1934

Roman Clodia wrote: "Ben wrote: "My British political history knowledge isn't strong enough to know whether the purge of the moderate Tories by Johnson and others has historical precedent"

Nearly 100 years ago the Dai..."

Wasn't the level of support for fascism also partly instrumental in terms of Chamberlain's later appeasement policy?

I *think*, though don't quote me on this, that there was quite a difference between fascist 'enthusiasts' such as Viscount Rothermere (owner of the Daily Mail - still run by his heirs) and fascist 'appeasers' who might have been driven by other strategic issues, though likely to have been an overlap.

But in relation to Ben's original question about moderate Tories, Rothermere disliked Tory leader Stanley Baldwin for being 'weak' in allowing women and working class men the vote and set up a far-right party called something like the United Empire Party - like a forerunner of UKIP/Reform. Its aim was both to take on the Labour Party and also to split the right-wing vote i.e. punish the Tories for not being right wing enough. All sounds depressingly familiar.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I *think*, though don't quote me on this, that there was quite a difference between fascist 'enthusiasts' such as Viscount Rothermere (owner of the Daily Mail - still run by his heirs) and fascist ..."

I was partly thinking about lobbying but also the ways in which the right-wing media's portrayal of Hitler as a leader and as an individual contributed to the notion that he was someone who could actually be reasoned with.

Although my impressions may link to the influence of Poliakoff's portrait in Glorious '39!

Alwynne wrote: "I was partly thinking about lobbying but also the ways in which the right-wing media's portrayal of Hitler as a leader and as an individual contributed to the notion that he was someone who could actually be reasoned with."

Yes, I'm sure that's true. Also I was surprised how much respect and influence Mussolini had in British right-wing circles. But, then, suffragettes and Girl Guides were fans of Oswald Mosley in the 1930s. There are photos of women lining the streets in East London giving the fascist salute to Mosley. I was fascinated by this material when I was teaching the Ian McKellan/Richard Loncraine film of Richard III set in 1930s England.

Considering Nigeyb’s “not sure how his legacy stacks up now.”
Fairly recently there have been two books written about Thompson, Freak Kingdom, Timothy Denevi (2018) and Savage Journey: Hunter S Thompson and The Weird Road To Gonzo, Peter Richardson (2022).
There are also recent articles like, Read 18 Lost Stories From Hunter S. Thompson’s Forgotten Stint As a Foreign Correspondent From open culture.com (2015).
The Five Lessons from Hunter S Thompson published in The Nation, 2022 (I’m considering these lessons as I read Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.)
For the most part current writings are described as being about his passion for writing and how what he wrote and how he wrote it created HST’s legacy.

Thanks Susan_MG 👏🏼

I’m finding it difficult to finish this book. Although some scenes are hilarious.

I’m at the part where Duke returns to Vegas for the Narcotics Conference and all I keep thinking is, just take a shower man. He’s been driving through the desert in a top-down Chevvy and hasn’t slept in 80 hours. Just shower and sleep.


Also, the whole Lucy episode was pretty disturbing.


Were the 60s and 70s really this wild? I’m from India and sadly, I have no idea whether such a subculture caught up here or not. I have definitely seen some old movies referring to the 60’s hippie movement but not sure how much of it was based on reality.

Forgot to post the funny bit:

There was something ominous and authoritarian about it. Whoever set up that sound system was probably some kind of Sheriff's auxiliary technician on leave from a drive-in theater in Muskogee, Oklahoma, where the management couldn't afford individual car speakers and relied on ten huge horns, mounted on telephone poles in the parking area.

How does he even the think of insults as detailed as that. Painting a whole character sketch of some person.


Looking at my Kindle highlights, I just realised that this book is pretty quotable.

Anubha wrote: "Were the 60s and 70s really this wild?"

Mostly no, but the wild moments resonated with a political and cultural rebellion against routine and conformism, and so were given a prominence that in our current cultural zeitgeist we don't give them.

And I agree about the scenes with Lucy. The "cultural enlightenment" brought by the 60's certainly didn't extend to the treatment of women.