Reading the 20th Century discussion

Welcome to our March 2024 buddy read of...




The Siege of Pleasure (1932)

by

Patrick Hamilton



This is the middle part of a trilogy that has also been published in a separate compendium called Twenty Thousand Streets Under The Sky. The other two books in the trilogy are The Siege of Pleasure (1932) and The Plains of Cement (1934) which we will also read and discuss in March 2024 and May 2024.



The Siege of Pleasure is essentially a prequel to The Midnight Bell and the story describes Jenny's drift into prostitution.

As Nigeyb says, this is a prequel to The Midnight Bell. One of the things I found interesting is that while in Midnight we never know what Jenny is thinking, this one puts us into her head.

I'd also say that I'm not always convinced by female characters written by men, especially working class women, but that I never felt jarred by Hamilton's Jenny, quite a feat of imagination and empathy.

Thanks RC. You've set the book up beautifully. I'm looking forward to rereading it soon.

Reading Anthony Powell and Patrick Hamilton concurrently will be a challenge for my aging brain. A good challenge I think.

Goodness, this was so well written, but so ultimately depressing. What makes it work is that we, the reader, know where Jenny ends up and this is her journey - or rather her descent - into prostitution and drink. It is so well done, as we begin by seeing Jenny as a possible 'treasure' and yet we also see glimpses of her selfish and vacuous nature. At every step, you want to stop her, to warn her, to try to change her story, but of course you can't.

Indeed so Susan


It’s not where she’s going but how she got there that we are witnessing

It’s painful

Like Bob before her

I agree, it's one of those books where you want to step into the pages to save Jenny.

I was also surprised and fascinated to see her at the start, being the 'treasure' that Susan mentions. Given what we know of her from Midnight Bell it's all the more poignant seeing where she came from. And yes, those little slippages of native cunning that show through - she's no innocent but still doesn't deserve what happens.

Life is so precarious for young, working class women with no protection and no safety net - it's remarkable that Jenny is such a survivor. And still so sassy and upbeat. But what will happen to her as she ages and loses her prettiness...?

Alcoholism, poverty, insecurity, instability, early death. A sad prediction but, I expect it's what will happen.

I hope there is something positive in the last in the trilogy, but then I know Hamilton enough to be doubtful.

Don't get your hopes up Susan

I won't. Not much lightness in this one, is there?

It's not quite as downbeat as the first two but the last words are not....


"....and they all lived happily ever after" 🤠

Nigeyb wrote: "It's not quite as downbeat as the first two but the last words are not....


"....and they all lived happily ever after" 🤠"

Haha! Oddly, though, I don't find PH downbeat or depressing, even though I think there is melancholy and tragedy in these stories.

Trying to understand why: maybe the characters are such survivors, they endure, no matter what they face. In Midnight Bell (view spoiler)[I worried that Bob was going to throw himself into the river - but no, he picks himself back up and decides to go back to sea (hide spoiler)]. Maybe it's part of PH's vision that a lot of life is endurance?

I completely agree with Susan about Jenny's future fate but PH chooses to show her at the height of her power over men like Bob and with her friends on the streets. She has some kind of agency and has her small triumphs and victories.

Also the books are so well-crafted with humour and vivid life that there's joy in such brilliant writing? I just love the whole world he's created in this trilogy.

I am at a point where Jenny is using her wiles with men for her benefit. (Meals). Seems like the same Jenny from the Midnight Bell.

Am I detecting a lack of empathy for Jenny, both in Midnight Bell and here?

I would say at this point my sense of Jenny is that her goal is to survive. Her weakness overwhelms any sense of fairness she could feel for the people she’s using. (Or so it seems on these early pages and by how she treated Bob in The Midnight Bell.). I did feel empathy at the end of the MB but I’m more suspicious now.

Roman Clodia wrote:


"Am I detecting a lack of empathy for Jenny, both in Midnight Bell and here?"

I feel sorry for her predicament in The Midnight Bell but equally, and from what I recall of this one, feel that she is well and truly the architect of her own downfall. If downfall if be. In a sense it's a lifestyle choice and, because it's one that I would find very difficult to endure, I can't relate to anyone who might have knowingly gone down that road especially with other options on the table.

I'm looking forward to rereading her story and will keep in mind your question RC

Roman Clodia wrote:


"Also the books are so well-crafted with humour and vivid life that there's joy in such brilliant writing? I just love the whole world he's created in this trilogy"

Spot on

In a sense it's a celebration of living in the moment and not worrying about the consequences

As Rupert Pupkin so memorably put it, "Better to be king for a night than a schmuck for a lifetime"

Susan_MG wrote: "I would say at this point my sense of Jenny is that her goal is to survive. Her weakness overwhelms any sense of fairness she could feel for the people she’s using."

In an unfair system, should we expect Jenny to demonstrate higher moral qualities than the society in which she lives?

This was 1930s so before the post-war Labour government set up a Welfare State and England was still governed, I think, under the Poor Laws i.e. the workhouses - and I'm not even sure what help was available for a young, single, healthy woman like Jenny: it may have been assumed that a father/brother/husband was supposed to take care of her.

Isn't it everyone's goal in life to survive? I see Jenny as flawed, thoughtless in this book, someone who more or less lets decisions happen through passivity, but not wicked.

It's quite something that PH has so much empathy and compassion for all his characters.

Nigeyb wrote: "I'm looking forward to rereading her story and will keep in mind your question RC"

Yes, let's revisit Jenny when everyone's finished reading this as I don't want to give away spoilers.

FINISHED THE BOOK - POSSIBLE SPOILERS

I really liked this novella. Due to Hamilton’s effective writing, especially the dialogue, I really felt for Jenny’s character in this book, much more than I did for Bob in the first book. Here, Jenny is a victim of predatory individuals and fateful circumstances that combined with her naivety and character weaknesses to bring her downfall. Bob’s downfall is largely a result of his own character weaknesses. While Jenny was deceptive, he should have known better than to fall for Jenny’s guile. She was acting as most normal people would expect a prostitute to act. It also may just be my giving more leeway to an 18-year-old pretty girl than a 25-year-old seemingly worldly guy.

Some reviewers question the speed of Jenny’s descent from fairly naïve too-pretty girl to coyly manipulative young prostitute Jenny Maple. I get the concern, but for me Hamilton’s writing and storytelling skills managed to overcome this problem and portray it realistically enough.

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

RC, I like how you brought in what alternatives/support Jenny would or wouldn’t have available. I know nothing about England’s social services during that time. Here in the US people would have been relying on soup kitchens, begging and heaven knows what else due to the not so distant depression which some never did escape. I haven’t finished yet but it is always helpful to see how other readers felt about our reads.
You have already triggered some points for me to consider as I read on.

Thanks Brian - I'll pick up your points after I have re-read this one. Looking forward to it. I adore this trilogy

Each story works well on its own terms, however when combined it creates one of the ultimate London novels. The twilight world of ordinary Londoners, trying to get by, yet all too easily seduced or distracted by the capital's temptations before coming crashing back down to earth. Beautifully written, it unerringly captures the world of the London pub, and the desperate lives of many ordinary people in the 1920s and 1930s, from a writer who was familiar with this world and sufficiently skilful to capture its every nuance.

Brian, yes, I completely agree with you and your assessment of Jenny. But I'll wait till Nigey and anyone else finish before diving in.

There is something a little stylized that everything changes in a single long night that moves Jenny from 'treasure' to street walker. But PH pulls it off for me.

I love that there's enough richness in this seemingly simple story to have us all on different places on a spectrum from empathy to condemnation for Jenny - there's more space for difference than we might think.

I also love the way the three books reflect and challenge each other - the trilogy feels much more than the sum of its parts to me.

It's a while since I fell completely in love with a set of books like this - well, since Barbara Pym last year - and that was prompted by our Nigeyb as well.

Call me the catalyst 🤠

That long night is probably my favourite part of the book, at least that's what my memory tells me

Looking forward to getting back to it

I've now started my re-read


I'd forgotten that opening section in which Jenny is comtemplating the funny small reticent man. It highlights her predicament well. She needs the money, she is not remotely attracted to the man, she knows a cop is keen to arrest her and has already arrested a friend of hers, and that this could be a sting. Grim.

One small detail I found interesting was about Jenny's apparently slightly contentious use of cosmetics whilst working. The use of make up for domestic staff was clearly a matter of comment in 1932. The old and traditional Bella and Marion noting to each other that "they all do it these days" with a strong hint of disapproval. Whilst from Jenny's perspective, "it was necessary, sooner or later, to break them in to the fact that she did make up. She saw no sin in the use of cosmetics, and she doubted whether they did."

Nigeyb wrote: "I've now started my re-read."

Yes, that beginning is grim and adds another layer to what we learned about Jenny's life in Midnight Bell where we saw her primarily through Bob's eyes.

But there's also a kind of grimness in her place of service with the doctor and his two old sisters.

Nigeyb wrote: "One small detail I found interesting was about Jenny's apparently slightly contentious use of cosmetics whilst working. The use of make up for domestic staff was clearly a matter of comment in 1932..."

I wondered if there was a class aspect to this in that the Bright Young Things of the twenties made a thing of flapper-style make up with scarlet lips. It definitely hints at the sort of restrictions and encroachments in that household that Jenny has to deal with which I'd imagine could get worse over time.

Thinking about why I don't find this depressing even though I have so much empathy with Jenny (as Rumpole always says, there but for the grace of god... he never believes in punching down) is perhaps because she doesn't have any self-pity - perhaps that's a luxury she can't afford?

Good points RC


I am sure there was a class aspect to the wearing of make up back in those days

I'll look out for any signs of self pity but I am sure that's right. She makes her choices with her eyes open

Nigeyb wrote: "She makes her choices with her eyes open."

I'm less sure that Jenny makes active choices - it's more that she drifts, goes with the flow, takes the route of least resistance. But see how you feel while reading and we can all discuss later.

Thanks. Good clarification. I suppose what I was getting at is that she could stop being a prostitute at any time and does have other options but, for better or for worse, sticks with the sex working

That said, I noted before that Hamilton states...

“Her ignorance, her shallowness, her scheming self-absorption, her vanity, her callousness, her unscrupulousness...were merely waiting...in the realms of respectability to be plunged down into the realms where they rightly belonged”

...which supports your drift assertion

I'll look out for the extent to which she seems to make conscious, informed choices versus drifting, or plunging, downwards (to where she rightly belongs)

Those “boys” infuriate me.

PH is a bit enigmatic about Jenny's background, isn't he? I seem to recall mention of a mother who died young but no father - single parent, likely impoverished? And then Jenny gets shuffled off to an aunt or someone who doesn't want her and is relieved when she moves out. She's pretty much alone in a world with no social safety net.

I'm not sure of the details of public education in the 1920s but I'm guessing minimal, up to the age of what? 11? 14?

Jenny did work in a factory - did she get kicked out when men returned from WW1 and were given back their jobs?

In both this book and Midnight Bell there's mention of her getting a job as a mannequin, presumably in a dress maker's shop but it seems to be something where you need to have contacts or be introduced. I'm not sure what the other options are for a woman with the barest education. Service, waitressing, or a barmaid like Ella? No such thing as social mobility at the time and class is generally destiny.

It's interesting that on 'the night' Jenny doesn't appear accustomed to going into pubs or even ordering a drink - there's an innocence or naivety about her, however much she seems to have a kind of street knowledge which accounts for her survival.

In Midnight Bell, doesn't she 'buy' herself out of walking the streets by taking Bob's money? She does sex work when she has to but if she can find an alternative, she does.

Btw, I'm not sure we talked much about the Bob/Jenny relationship in Midnight Bell and the fact she never tries to seduce him or turn him into a client - what does everyone make of this?

Of course, she gets all his savings anyway, but in a piecemeal way and I was never convinced she had a plan, just a drifting kind of exploitation.

The BBC Radio adaptation of Twenty Thousand Streets Under the Sky gets another outing on BBC Radio 4 Extra next week....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07g...


And more here....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07g...


The radio version is a linear narrative, rather than the three parallel narratives of the original novels

I last listened in 2016 so am ready for another go

Really excellent as I recall

Roman Clodia wrote:


"I'm not sure we talked much about the Bob/Jenny relationship in Midnight Bell and the fact she never tries to seduce him or turn him into a client - what does everyone make of this?

Of course, she gets all his savings anyway, but in a piecemeal way and I was never convinced she had a plan, just a drifting kind of exploitation"

You've nailed it RC

Definitely no plan but an opportunistic day-by-day fleecing

In the prologue of this book it states...

A week ago a young man named Bob (he was a young waiter in a pub called The Midnight Bell' off the Euston Road) had given her, for various reasons, twenty-five pounds in order to make it worth her while to go away with him to Brighton for a week.

It had been a fantastic thing to do, and she had known all the time that he had only done it because he had been crazily in love with her. He was a bit mad. All the same she had promised to go to Brighton and to meet him at Victoria with that end in view. Well, she had not. The twenty-five pounds in a lump sum had been too much for her. She had got drunk and spent all the money instead. She knew she was wrong there, and her conscience smote her somewhat. But even more than by her conscience she was smitten by the fear of what he might do. It was quite likely that he was wandering round looking for her now (he had often done that sort of thing before) and if they met she dreaded to think of the scene he might make.


So she is fully aware of Bob's feelings and how reckless he could be with money, and takes advantage of the situation, not even bothering to honour her promise to go to Brighton with him

She doesn't need to seduce him as he's already hooked. She just sees a sucker who she can take advantage of without even having to sleep with him. From her perspective it's the perfect scenario.

Nigeyb wrote: "From her perspective it's the perfect scenario"

"She knew she was wrong there, and her conscience smote her somewhat. But even more than by her conscience she was smitten by the fear of what he might do."

Not really ideal though given that she feels guilt and fear - the former a striking emotion and probably one of the reasons I'm quite soft on Jenny. I imagine fear is a dominant emotion in her life.

Sorry, I don't want to push my view of Jenny on anyone else! I can easily imagine her fully intending to go to Brighton and just having a quick drink... that turns into two... then six... and then the time's gone and she just has another before the next train and...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Jenny's not malicious. She doesn't plan to take the money and not show up, she just gets tempted by the cash and starts drinking and the outcome is that she reneges on the deal. It's a sort of miniature version of her becoming a prostitute: she never actively takes the decision, but she gets on a slippery slope and is unable to stop herself. She's a weak character, for sure, but not a wicked or malevolent one.

I just find this understandable and easier to empathise with than a more knowing and self-conscious villain.

But completely accept that others have a harsher reading than me which is fine too 😊

I’m trying to keep an open mind as I read on


I’d forgotten “common”, boy mad Violet was the friend on the big night out

Violet's such a vivid character, isn't she?

Nigeyb wrote: "The BBC Radio adaptation of Twenty Thousand Streets Under the Sky gets another outing on BBC Radio 4 Extra next week"

Oooh, exciting! Will someone give me a nudge next week please? Presumably it'll be on the BBC Sounds app.

I'm hoping it will be on BBC Sounds - no sign yet

I’m at the Hammersmith pub scene now which I recall being very powerful and evocative

I’d forgotten how class conscious Jenny is at the point but also how unsure of herself

It’s so well written. PH really nails the different characters who are so credible and convincing

Andy first impressions and Jenny's notions of class and respectability...


Who the devil did this apeish little man think he was? If such a one owned a car and consorted with Majors, what were the standards of to-day? She knew how odd the protest was, coming from one in her own lowly situation, but she was unable to curb it. Jenny's soul, if she but knew it, was charged through and through with a vigilant snobbery and awareness of class, and now it rebelled hotly against so uncouth an offshoot of democracy. One thing she did perceive, however. He was, though not without delicacy, showing off. He had the makings of a 'swank-pot.'

I grew up in Turnham Green so all that Chiswick and Hammersmith description was even more welcome as it feels like home turf.

Interesting insight into Jenny’s opportunistic nature…


In fact, was he (Andy) not superbly eligible? He was no common 'pick-up.' He was the owner of a car; he consorted with the retired military; and all his talk went to prove that he was ‘in a good way.' If she played her cards right, there was no end of what she might get out of him. She had him round her little finger already.

Roman Clodia wrote:


"I grew up in Turnham Green so all that Chiswick and Hammersmith description was even more welcome as it feels like home turf."

I love it when an area you know intimately appears in a novel and when the author is writing from first hand knowledge.

Hamilton is superb at evoking a sense of time and place

Rereading the incredible section about the night at the pub a few themes emerge. Jenny's initial notions of class and respectability are strong and seemingly unshakeable. Her initial thoughts are all about how inappropriate it is, how common her companions are, and how she wants to escape

Once inebration takes hold these notions melt away like snow on a sunny morning. What emerges is the "real" Jenny: calculating, slovenly, opportunistic

Her totally unsentimental and unromantic attitude also emerges. She never has and never will harbour strong feelings for anyone.

I was also struck by how Tom is a proto Bob. Another fool to be wrung dry.

I am not judging her, she is what she is, and clearly uneducated and not the brightest

That night-at-the-pub scene is a brilliant piece of writing. So powerful and convincing. One of the best descriptions of getting drunk that I have come across

Nigeyb wrote: "I love it when an area you know intimately appears in a novel and when the author is writing from first hand knowledge."

And, as in Midnight Bell, you can mentally trace where people live and the routes they take.