Ursula K. LeGuin discussion

I'm starting a new thread for the third story

This third story is the one I found the most hopeful but the one that made me feel most sad, as well.

It's really a testament to her talent, the way in which Le Guin weaves the painfully slow process of change for the better alongside the importance of traditions, both big themes, while also presenting a singular story with relatable characters.

This is the first story with a man as main character, and yet, it is all about women.

Francisca, it's an excellent point that while a man is the main character, this is a story about women!

This was one of my favourite stories in this book, at least in part because I liked Havzhiva's perspective so much. I found the society he came from so interesting, and that it existed alongside the technology and history of Hain is a really fascinating contrast. Havzhiva's journey from Stse to Yeowe was such an interesting one, and one that I found very believable. I also loved the way that Havzhiva helped the women to fight for equality -- in a way that was respectful and considerate of their wishes, very different from Solly in the previous story. This is also a story where Le Guin's interest in how societies work and how different people live really shines, and the life in Yeowe and Stse feel very tangible.

I agree with all that Rosamund has said. Havzhiva's personality is so unassuming and admirable, a man who respects women as equals, quite a fresh new viewpoint! I can't think of any other story where Ursula has described the Hainish culture from inside. And it's fascinating that she sees them as having a culture very similar to those her father studied, yet as not being locked into it, but able to choose to leave it and enjoy modern technology, as having a choice that history's "primitive" societies didn't have. Meeting Solly as a minor character but now an Ambassador give the stories a dimension, something that makes me want to go back and re-reread them, looking for more references and correspondences that I may have missed.

I think that Havzhiva is a very interesting character.

I really liked how, his respect for women and the way he helps them (without imposing himself or judging, quite the opposite of how Solly first approaches her duties) it's clearly shown to be a consequence of his upbringing in a society that, while filled by myths and religious beliefs, does value men and women equally.

I really appreciate how, though Havzhiva's eyes, we see acts of intense cruelty, like the initiation of the boys in the formerly slaves-camp, not with disgust but with understanding. It's not that Havzhiva approves of the cruelty displayed, but he understands that such cruelty was born from terrible conditions and it would take effort and consciousness to change the legacy of such conditions.

There's no justification to the way women are treated in this world, yet we come to see that such treatment wasn't born out of nothing, but in response to the way people had been surviving for centuries. It's because he understands that violence often creates more violence that Havzhiva is so effective in his tactics, pushing and presenting resistance without violent confrontation.

As I said, I think is has been my favorite story, even so I liked the first one so very much.

I'm about to finishing the last one, and then I think that, as Judy mentioned, I will re-read them all one more time.