Science and Inquiry discussion

For June 2024, we will be reading Wasteland: The Secret World of Waste and the Urgent Search for a Cleaner Future by Oliver Franklin-Wallis.

Please use this thread to post questions, comments, and reviews, at any time.

I read this book a few months ago and enjoyed it -- here is my review - https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Well Franklin-Wallace tried to end on a hopeful note but didn’t succeed.
I have toured the Hanford Nuclear Site in Washington. https://www.hanford.gov/
And seen the massive and very expensive effort to deal with our nuclear waste including pumping ground water that has become contaminated and treating it to try to prevent it getting to the Columbia River.
I have been leary of the MRF sorters since they were sold to our waste management companies decades ago.
I have seen plastic “recycling” from the U.S. being burned in Viet Nam.
Anyway this is a well-written book that lays out what we humans have done to ourselves and our plant in a readable and personable way.

CatReader wrote: "I read this book a few months ago and enjoyed it -- here is my review - https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

Thanks for flagging the review, it's been good to understand the book better.

Betsy wrote: "For June 2024, we will be reading Wasteland: The Secret World of Waste and the Urgent Search for a Cleaner Future by Oliver Franklin-Wallis.

Please use this threa..."

I've never read it. It'll be an interesting find!

Michael wrote: "CatReader wrote: "I read this book a few months ago and enjoyed it -- here is my review - https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

Thanks for flagging the review, it's been good to unders..."

You're welcome, I'm glad you found it helpful!

I'm through part 1 and appreciate CatReader's review. I also noticed that line about clothing on page 121..."it's thought that 25% of clothing made is never sold." What a waste and how shameful that it ends up littering the poorest countries around the world. I too send my unwanted clothing to charity centers. Would I be better off throwing away the stuff that's not good name brand stuff? Like the author, I really don't know!

It's sad and unsurprising that Christmas is the most wasteful day of the year. In general, this book is sad.

I've started this book but I'm having trouble getting into it. So far it seems a little boring and disjointed. Covering familiar territory. But I haven't gotten very far, and it may be that I'm just distracted by lots of other things competing for my attention. (Like news.)

Jessica wrote: "I'm through part 1 and appreciate CatReader's review. I also noticed that line about clothing on page 121..."it's thought that 25% of clothing made is never sold." What a waste and how shameful tha..."

Thank you Jessica! Agreed, if it's true 25% of clothing is never worn, that's quite a waste - especially given how many clothes people in Western countries own today as compared to 100 years ago (just think of standard closet sizes in 100-year-old homes for reference). I've been cleaning out my closet recently as I prepare to move again, hoping to donate a lot of clothes still in great condition, but skeptical after reading this book about whether the clothes I donate will actually go to people in need in the US, other countries, or just get incinerated.

In the context of cotton agriculture (or corn), clothing manufacturing, building/demolition of homes, and mining, does the book provide useful conclusions? Does the author suggest overpopulation is the biggest threat? What decade was the global population half of what it is today? In other words, does the author envision lifestyle or economic system changes that would be neutral or improve conditions of our biosphere? I don't know, maybe the author has parallel ideas to E.O. Wilson's 'Half-Earth' concept?

I saw a Guardian article dated May 25 with this headline: America’s premier pronatalists on having ‘tons of kids’ to save the world: ‘There are going to be countries of old people starving to death’

Does the author mention cultures like pronatalists? If population is the source of biosphere trouble, then saying the future of people is between a rock and a hard place is an understatement.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...

I'm only through Part 1, but I have a feeling that the concept of overpopulation is outside the scope of this book. The author seems to be more focused on the responsibility we have as a society to create less waste. A responsible family of 8 could easily create less waste than a family of 2 who receives regular packages from Amazon and eats carryout twice a day thus making family size irrelevant to this author's point. ( I do believe the author mentioned Jeff Bezos in passing at least once already lol )

Persuading people to change their waste generation behavior using educational methods is probably effective only for a minority of our population. Be great if it were otherwise. Though, imagining that it was an effective approach for most of us, suggests significant, coincidental lifestyle and economic changes. Changes at this scale very well could, in the end, be positive. Though, my understanding of human nature is that people, in general, fight against change. For example, as you know, opposition to the ongoing transition away from coal, petroleum, and natural gas to generate electricity is robust.

I agree that lifestyle change is hard and people fight against change. I've been aware of the amount of trash I create when I get carryout, but it's a very hard habit to stop even when I am reading a book about trash. The fast paced western lifestyle is not conducive with efficiency. On the other hand, I love things like carryout and modern plumbing and wouldn't want to go back to the way things were (though we do have a really neat composting toilet on our sailboat).

I'm still reading. I've made my way to Part 3. It's hard to read because there just doesn't seem to be a lot of hope.

Yes, it's very hard to cut the amount of trash we generate. I'm diabetic and lately I've been getting my insulin from Amazon Pharmacy. My last delivery arrived a couple days ago. Three pens (a month's supply) were inside a plastic bag inside a small cardboard box inside another plastic bag, which was then inside a metallic bag with about five frozen ice packs, all inside another cardboard box stuffed with paper. I know they're concerned about keeping insulin cold, but they make the delivery usually in one or two days. Now I have to dispose of all that trash. And I'll have to do it again in a month. I've tried requesting a three month supply, but my insurance company refused that. It's so frustrating. My alternative is to get my insulin from a local pharmacy that I have to drive to. But I used to do that and both of the pharmacies that I used have closed in the last couple years.

One small bright spot is that many shippers are using less bubble wrap stuff to stuff their packages. For those that don't I have found that I can take it to the local UPS office to reuse. I haven't tried taking it to FedEx or USPS, but I have the impression that the corporate culture for UPS is very different from those others.

I'm only on Chapter 4, but I was really surprised by how much energy is supplied by burning trash.

Betsy I feel your pain! I order special supplements online and in summer they come with all those frozen packs. I try to remember to order extra ahead of summer. Sometimes it's not enough.

I think it's cool they can get energy by burning trash but did you notice that they also burn food for fuel which can incentivize certain farms to produce food for the sole purpose of burning? Such a waste! It seems like there's always a bad side to every good solution. I can't remember what Chapter that was but Chapter 7 is about food waste.

Food waste is a hard topic for me because encouraging kids to "clean their plate because kids are starving elsewhere" is an unhelpful saying, especially after giving kids way too much food in the first place. This overeating at a young age contributes to future bad habits and potentially obesity and disease. The last time I tried to finish all my food at a restaurant, I had a stomach ache for hours. Imagine giving a similar portion to a kid and telling them to clean their plate! I don't think that saying is as prevalent as it was when I was a kid but it's still in the air.

Jessica wrote: "... I think it's cool they can get energy by burning trash but did you notice that they also burn food for fuel which can incentivize certain farms to produce food for the sole purpose of burning? Such a waste! ... "

In the US, we grow corn to convert into ethanol, which is used to supplement gasoline. This is not economical, and it's debatable whether it is helpful in reducing greenhouse gasses.

So happy I finally finished this book. I was right about the author's end conclusion, buy less stuff. Free yourself from the advertising that says you need stuff to make you happy. And I would add to that, free yourself from the idea that you need to keep up with your neighbors to be happy.

Started this today. Upon reading the above comments, I thought about the early 1970’s when wearing used clothing was de rigueur practice among us teenage and college-age city baby boomers. I admit it wasn’t primarily because of waste management, it was the fashion for most of us. Us baby boomers intentionally stressed new casual wear to appear used and old, especially jeans, if we couldn’t convince parents or find what we needed at used clothes stores, like the Salvation Army. I cut up my new jeans if I bought them, adding in colorful tie-died patches, and of course, washed them in bleach, to look used. But the jeans most in demand were old legitimately work-damaged jeans given away by blue-collar men.

Today, young people are shopping for ‘Fast Fashion’ clothes, which are designed to last one season.

I finished this today. It took me a while to read it, not because it was boring or badly written, but because it was so depressing. This is such an overwhelming problem and the author doesn't really have much of a solution to offer. But it's interesting and worth reading. Here is my review.

Youtube video about Ghazipur dump catching fire: https://youtu.be/HD3cn-ZVeeE?si=F3xo7...

And another about the Bhalswa pickers: https://youtu.be/KHiHBuubsDE?si=_PI8D...

Trash pickers around the world: https://youtu.be/w4DO1_ClyNk?si=mgZVX...

Some recycling factories: Ireland, Pakistan, Sweden

https://youtu.be/ja7QaANH62Q?si=RW9NV...

I was the one who nominated this book for the poll after reading it, and I guess I am late to the discussion 😅
Yes, I felt the overarching somberness that all of you felt while reading the book and how the predictions and actions are still damning.

I read it because of Earth Day and was surprised to hear the realities of the recycling state. I follow these, although they are tiny compared to the industrial actions and policies we all face.

- Keep a bin in the kitchen to collect covers for reuse. Refuse single-use plastic bags when shopping. Carry cloth bags or use your hands when you can
- Rinse plastic containers before discarding them to improve recyclability
- Carry your reusable non-plastic cutlery for dining out if you think the place won't offer non-plastic; add "cutlery not needed" as a note in online orders
- Refuse unnecessary sauce packets, samples and sachets, even if they are free.
- Set an example by refusing excessive packaging and trying to carry your containers for takeout - people appreciate you for reducing their costs
- I got a needle set to stitch fixable things for my clothes before disposing of them.

Also, after this, I read the August nomination book of Helen Czerski; you will notice some common topics and bleakness there, too.

OMGoodness why did I never think of taking my own glass containers to the restaurant for my leftovers! And I almost always have leftovers at a restaurant. Thank you so much Sai. This is something that has been bothering me for a long time and I feel silly for not thinking of that!

And I can't tell you how many times I ate too much in a restaurant because I didn't want to waste food and didn't want to create waste with a carryout container. This is a really easy solution too. The glass containers often sit unused in my cabinet.

I appreciate the new mindset of seeing the long term path of the packaging on products I buy. I’m thinking of sending a form letter to manufacturers and letting them know that a piece of my decision when shopping is the packaging situation. How recyclable is it? Maybe we can exert some change in the retail and manufacturing world in time for Christmas to not create such a mess of waste?

Buy less stuff - the best takeaway advice from this book.

aPriL, I'm definitely in your camp. Though this voluntary proposal scaled-up enough to be meaningful requires political and economic revolution. And my observations indicate change on this scale, even to move the needle, is fantastical. Or, at least, in the near future when the changes could be made on a societal or global scale with time as a friend. Later, when the change timeframe will be driven by existential crisis hysteria, the political and economic costs may be more than unpalatable.